We can all agree and understand that the champions League is a step up from the Europa League.

Interstellar

Active Member
I would say there were times in the past few years when we got out classed in the Europa League but we had that mentality of wanting to compete even against " better opposition.

The braga home game 3-2 result also the benfica draws.

Two teams who are familiar with champions League football, Porto when we beat them were also in the latter stages of champions League football the previous season and competing with the likes of Liverpool.

I know it's semantics and theres a variety reasons we aren't competing now as it's a bigger step up but the mentality, drive passion and sheer willingness to compete with teams with much bigger budgets than ours was very evident.

What's evident now is that passion, drive and desire to compete seems to be all but gone now.

The tactical flexibility/changes gio utilised to great effect last season are non existent.

What's your thoughts and ideas on why we seem so tentative and unable to compete and I don't want to hear the gulf in budgets rhetoric as we know that, something has definitely changed this season.
 

1914-18

Well-Known Member
I would say there were times in the past few years when we got out classed in the Europa League but we had that mentality of wanting to compete even against " better opposition.

The braga home game 3-2 result also the benfica draws.

Two teams who are familiar with champions League football, Porto when we beat them were also in the latter stages of champions League football the previous season and competing with the likes of Liverpool.

I know it's semantics and theres a variety reasons we aren't competing now as it's a bigger step up but the mentality, drive passion and sheer willingness to compete with teams with much bigger budgets than ours was very evident.

What's evident now is that passion, drive and desire to compete seems to be all but gone now.

The tactical flexibility/changes gio utilised to great effect last season are non existent.

What's your thoughts and ideas on why we seem so tentative and unable to compete and I don't want to hear the gulf in budgets rhetoric as we know that, something has definitely changed this season.
Yeah the manager has dug his claws in
 

Arkanoid

Well-Known Member
Yes, he's the manager. Until we are told otherwise, he has full control over his 1st team which is now weaker than the previous few seasons. Yes we sold 2 quality players but have failed to even scratch the surface in replacing them
Aribo and Bassey would make any 4th seed side stronger, short term benefits from our replacements have been appalling. Still keep the faith however
 

1914-18

Well-Known Member
Aribo and Bassey would make any 4th seed side stronger, short term benefits from our replacements have been appalling. Still keep the faith however
I've lost the faith and that's why I am of the opinion I don't Believe Gio is the man to take us forward. Watching our performances both domestically and in Europe I fully believe the fans are sick of it and more importantly, so are the players.
 

Interstellar

Active Member
Yes, he's the manager. Until we are told otherwise, he has full control over his 1st team which is now weaker than the previous few seasons. Yes we sold 2 quality players but have failed to even scratch the surface in replacing them

Well it seems he's kinda fucked the whole goodwill and "progress" from last season.

Getting to a Europa League final, winning the Scottish cup and even qualifying for the champions League group stages this season, some turnaround by gio!
 

Arkanoid

Well-Known Member
I've lost the faith and that's why I am of the opinion I don't Believe Gio is the man to take us forward. Watching our performances both domestically and in Europe I fully believe the fans are sick of it and more importantly, so are the players.
Forward to where?

This is our standard
And you’re also in a vocal minority regards Gio, like everything. He who shouts loudest speaks for nobody
 

Interstellar

Active Member
Aye we
You forgot to mention losing is the league title!
Aye well he got a pass for that because he got to the Europa final and won the cup, he won't get a pass this year, if we are out of Europe before Xmas and lose the league, there will be no goodwill.
 

Arkanoid

Well-Known Member
Aye we
Aye well he got a pass for that because he got to the Europa final and won the cup, he won't get a pass this year, if we are out of Europe before Xmas and lose the league, there will be no goodwill.
What about your own Aussie manager, will he have any goodwill grace?
 

ReemergingDebate

Active Member
You have answered your own question. Ajax aside which was a horrendous performance. This current Napoli team and Liverpool are levels above our Europa League opponents last season.
 

MatangiBear

Well-Known Member
The team as everyone knows is mostly the same since Gerrard re-started our Euro journey, some real quality needed to be added, we now find ourselves on the decline due to a combination of average squad investment and a massive step up in competition. The players dont look confident against Euro Elite, hopefully the final 2 home games vs Liverpool and Ajax will see us raise our levels and maybe even get some points.

Lets not forget that qualification to the group stages was outstanding.
 

1914-18

Well-Known Member
Not sure what's so funny
Bore of you prick, want me to post my rangers memorabilia?

Trying to have an actual discussion on what's different this season. If your going to call me a tim then don't reply to me.
I think option 2 has worked a treat as usual
 

ReemergingDebate

Active Member
Where's the fight then, where's the effort and passion?

I wouldn't question the effort tbh. I see this a lot and not just with our support. I think there's a bit of a misconception after games like tonight. I think when your playing a vastly superior side sometimes it looks like there's a lack of commitment but in reality it is a symptom of being outclassed technically and tactically.
 

nzb

Well-Known Member
Those giving it the 'no shit sherlock' patter could maybe think back to the 'how many points will we get' poll which ran before the Ajax game. I think I was one of the idiots who thought we could get 8.

Clearly more than a few did underestimate the step up, or were just carried away slightly by our win in Eindhoven and/or last season's exploits
 

JMTrangers

Well-Known Member
It's as much our group as the big step up. Had we had an RB Leipzig or even a Dortmund in our group, we'd have had a chance of getting something against them. We've even got results against the likes of Benfica and Porto in the recent past.

3 losses from 3 in matches that we were given no chance in by the bookies isn't too much of a disgrace. Only the performance against Ajax was a disgrace. We still have 2 home matches to go in this competition and I'm hopeful we put in a decent performance in those.
 

rabbie73

Well-Known Member
It's as much our group as the big step up. Had we had an RB Leipzig or even a Dortmund in our group, we'd have had a chance of getting something against them. We've even got results against the likes of Benfica and Porto in the recent past.

3 losses from 3 in matches that we were given no chance in by the bookies isn't too much of a disgrace. Only the performance against Ajax was a disgrace. We still have 2 home matches to go in this competition and I'm hopeful we put in a decent performance in those.
If we play the same midfielders then we will have no chance. Davis, Lundstrum, kamara if playing are far to slow to compete against top quality sides. I keep going on about Davis he's been a fantastic servant to the club but his time was up last season if you watch them especially kamara and Davis the ball goes sideways and back more than it will going forward. It's bad enough watching it in our league never mind European cup.
 

Slickrick

Well-Known Member
The Champions league is a huge step up off course it is but we now have two games at home. If we can take a point of Liverpool then if we beat Ajax assuming they lose the next two matches and we can get third so still all to play for.
Be brave against Liverpool. They are still a team searching for form.

What is the point in playing 5-3-2 and stinking the competition out to just lose by a lesser scoreline. Lets go for the jugular and get the points.
 

Aye Ready 1872

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
The sale of Aribo and Bassey has taken its toll. We have no settled defensive structure, uncertainty over choice of keeper and an ever changing midfield.

If GVB doesn't know how to play, how are the players supposed to know. Although i just can't understand why we are so bad in possession, why we can't hold the ball up or pass, there's no excuses on that front.

We are up against some quality opposition but by fvck we don't half make it easy for them.
 

HandsomeHead

Well-Known Member
So far for me it’s only been the Ajax game that was really bad.

Against Napoli, who’ve proved themselves to be a seriously good team, we were giving as good as we got until the sending off and penalty. The two late strikes at the end gave the scoreline a look that didn’t really do us justice I felt.

Last night we were up against one of the best sides in world football. They have players worth more than our entire squad. I thought their speed of passing and movement was on a different level to anything we’ve faced in the past few years so as much as we could barely string more than two passes together the speed of their closing down and pressing forced a lot of those mistakes.

Simply put we look like what we are: a Europa League level team with a comparatively minuscule budget a bit out of their depth at the higher level.
 

derek28

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
I would say there were times in the past few years when we got out classed in the Europa League but we had that mentality of wanting to compete even against " better opposition.

The braga home game 3-2 result also the benfica draws.

Two teams who are familiar with champions League football, Porto when we beat them were also in the latter stages of champions League football the previous season and competing with the likes of Liverpool.

I know it's semantics and theres a variety reasons we aren't competing now as it's a bigger step up but the mentality, drive passion and sheer willingness to compete with teams with much bigger budgets than ours was very evident.

What's evident now is that passion, drive and desire to compete seems to be all but gone now.

The tactical flexibility/changes gio utilised to great effect last season are non existent.

What's your thoughts and ideas on why we seem so tentative and unable to compete and I don't want to hear the gulf in budgets rhetoric as we know that, something has definitely changed this season.
Braga first half I will give you but against both Benfica and Porto we were excellent, in fact we lost a goal against Benfica when we were pushing for another and were well on top.

I feel we have regressed this season in all areas, we don't look well drilled like we did under Gerrard. I think under Gio our Europa League form was the outlier, I hope not and we kick on but that's how I feel.
 

punksnotdead

Well-Known Member
EL finalists shouldn’t be struggling this much at this level. We weren’t just lucky last year. We’ve regressed, that’s the bottom line.

Agree totally, we're nowhere near the standard of last season even though we're in a tougher competition.

As I said in the match thread last night we were like lambs to the slaughter, trying to keep the score down. Five at the back, negative tactics and no belief.

Yes they are a good side but we made it easy for them. When GVB changed it late on by taking off a centre half and having a wee go we caused them problems.

I'm not saying we would win the game but surely it's better to have a go than sit in and get beat anyway. Brighton scored 3 goals there on Saturday. We went to Dortmund last season and scored 4. Where has that positive outlook gone?

I think the manager's super safe approach is killing us and I don't think the players appreciate it either.
 

ICA_86

Well-Known Member
It goes without saying, but the drop off in attitude compared to Dortmund and Leipzig last year, or even PSV away this year, is absolutely fucking staggering.
 

devilman

Well-Known Member
Yes we can. We can accept that - we can accept it was a big learning curve.

However, we can also accept that Gio Van Bronkhorst is not a good manager. He isn't capable of getting anything out of the players at all and looks utterly bewildered and lost. He can't just keep using the "they're not doing what I ask". It isn't really that simple in football and if he can't grasp that he should probably quit football management altogether.
 

Coplandfrontier

Well-Known Member
You have answered your own question. Ajax aside which was a horrendous performance. This current Napoli team and Liverpool are levels above our Europa League opponents last season.
Your correct and the Ajax performance/ result has muddied the waters. Napoli are flying this season and Liverpool at Anfield is a hard one but we were mauled in Amsterdam, shocking performance.
 

JDC76

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
The jump from europa league to CL is a lot greater than in previous years. That’s the reality we face. You do get the sense though a lot of our players last night didn’t have the confidence or belief in themselves.
 

the_baron

Well-Known Member
I don't feel particularly confident that we would look any better against Europa league opposition at the moment.

We matched Eintracht Frankfurt for 120 minutes earlier this year, they currently sit still in contention of qualifying from their group and took a point from Spurs last night.

Yes we have a tougher group but you'd expect Europa League finalists to at least have scored a goal by now and have had more than 6 shots on target across three games.
 
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