We WILL reach another European final before long.

Treble Kings said:
I'm sorry, and maybe it's just me, but that above's hardly a ringing endorsement for your argument, mate. Apart from last night we've still been miles away from finals. Yes, there's been real progress and improvement I'm glad to say, but you've got us as if we're Real Madrid or Chelsea, ffs...
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that table doesn’t show the pretty seismic event that happened in 2012 does it? We almost didn’t exist, we got thrown to the lowest division in Scottish football. We lost all our good players then spent 4 years being rapes and pillaged by a bunch of crooks. When you take that into consideration, that list is a hell of a lot better endorsement!
 
Kowloon72 said:
CBA checking but I'm fairly sure that isn't quite right about Ajax and their very memorable CL campaign in 2019 is colouring your opinion. Sure their Euro record is pretty spotty in the this era of Euro football. As are all the Dutch clubs.

I think Dutch clubs have revenues in line with ours, I think the big three in Portugal are more than double.
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Maybe but they've had a couple of memorable runs in the past 5 or so years in both tournaments at least which might be slightly more realistic. There or thereabouts probably extends to regular Champions League football and being visibly competitive in the group stages. Making the group stages every year should be more attainable now that we've restored the co-efficient. I'm also too lazy to check but I'd be surprised if their revenues are in line with us, can you evidence that?
 
When even teams like Braga are regularly getting to the latter stages of European competitions it proves it's not as difficult as people like to make out.

With our home form and good recruitment, we should be aiming for Europa league last 16/quarters majority of seasons.

From there all you are is a couple of good results away from a final.
 
I don’t see us (or any Scottish team) playing in the final of the Europa league or obviously the CL. It’s much harder to do it in the Europa league now compared to 2008 because of the quality of teams dropping into it.

This team we have is exceptional in Europe right now but this won’t last. We have played above ourselves but it has still needed a lot of luck to match our great performances. We had to play two CL quality sides after the group stages - but easily with bad luck in the draw that could have been three or even four. The penalties for and none I remember against, the deflected goals, and general luck we carried in scoring out of nothing at times where games looked lost - and VAR being good to us mostly. Sure we deserved a lot of that but I can’t see the stars aligning to make it all happen again.
 
ecossebear said:
that table doesn’t show the pretty seismic event that happened in 2012 does it? We almost didn’t exist, we got thrown to the lowest division in Scottish football. We lost all our good players then spent 4 years being rapes and pillaged by a bunch of crooks. When you take that into consideration, that list is a hell of a lot better endorsement!
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Not seeing a lot of the points being claimed. Apart from last night we've been nowhere near a European final since Manchester. Good, respectable runs, yes, but don't go giving Pravda or The Joseph Goebbels Reich Ministry of Propaganda a run for its money...
 
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Vince said:
I don’t see us (or any Scottish team) playing in the final of the Europa league or obviously the CL. It’s much harder to do it in the Europa league now compared to 2008 because of the quality of teams dropping into it.

This team we have is exceptional in Europe right now but this won’t last. We have played above ourselves but it has still needed a lot of luck to match our great performances. We had to play two CL quality sides after the group stages - but easily with bad luck in the draw that could have been three or even four. The penalties for and none I remember against, the deflected goals, and general luck we carried in scoring out of nothing at times where games looked lost - and VAR being good to us mostly. Sure we deserved a lot of that but I can’t see the stars aligning to make it all happen again.
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MFN_Bear said:
DOUBT it.
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Oh ye of little faith!
 
aye getting to the final is great, but if ends up like last night, then I'll have to think twice, I'm still really down from it, and don't care about the cup game at the weekend tbh
 
Treble Kings said:
Not seeing a lot of the points being claimed. Apart from last night we've been nowhere near a European final since Manchester. Good, respectable runs, yes, but don't go giving Pravda or The Joseph Goebbels Reich Ministry of Propaganda a run for its money...
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Since our return we’ve had a europa league group stage and respectable effort, two last 16s and a final. That’s a great run for any team. Probably not many teams in the Europa league have a better record over that 4 year window. Especially when the first two we had to qualify from the very first round!
 
Prometheus said:
The fact that we had a good run and rode the crest of wave this year doesn't make it the new norm. The absolute cauldron didn't prevent us losing ties against Slavia Prague and Malmo in the last 2 seasons. In a random year, given a random draw against the calibre of teams who make it to the Europa League knockout stages, there's no way that we're 60/40 favourites. That's pure delusion honestly.
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yep, it'll probably be over another decade before we even get a sniff of a european final, this season was the exception rather than the rule, I feel a lot more gutted this time than in 2008, as we had a great chance and we blew it
 
cooperman said:
yep, it'll probably be over another decade before we even get a sniff of a european final, this season was the exception rather than the rule, I feel a lot more gutted this time than in 2008, as we had a great chance and we blew it
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I don’t think you can say we blew it. We went out in the lottery that is penalties. And even our penalty miss was on target. We lost on the finest of margins
 
Rosco said:
I'd love to share your optimism, but another final in the next 15-20 years is unrealistic in my mind. 36 years between Barcelona and Manchester points to the more likely scenario.
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Totally yesterday was THE big opportunity missed. Fine margins but missed. No final in a long time. If ever the gap financially makes it more and more difficult.
 
No we won't Seville was our best chance of ever winning a Euro trophy. I'm 60 and doubt I will ever see us again in a Euro final. Why I feel absolutely gutted about not winning it.
 
Papac said:
Maybe but they've had a couple of memorable runs in the past 5 or so years in both tournaments at least which might be slightly more realistic. There or thereabouts probably extends to regular Champions League football and being visibly competitive in the group stages. Making the group stages every year should be more attainable now that we've restored the co-efficient. I'm also too lazy to check but I'd be surprised if their revenues are in line with us, can you evidence that?
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First I meant to say that I agree with your assertion that framing Seville as a "once in a lifetime" thing is way too small time. First, it's just factually incorrect, we were in the final in '08 as well and missed about five season of European football in between. We'll also need to accept that if and when we make the CL groups, luck of the draw will have a big impact on how far we can progress.

Scottish football is funny. We complain that it holds us back, but actually it's the zero sum game we play with that lot that holds us back, and we play it voluntarily. Scottish football actually gives us an opportunity that some teams in some leagues don't have, we have a near cast iron guarantee of European football every season, and generally much weaker opposition to face domestically so we can prioritize it if and when we need to.

I wasn't quite right RE Ajax. In their leaner years they won't be miles off where we are this year (next set of accounts should see a huge increase and that's not even factoring in the later EL stages), but in their best years they dwarf us.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ElehAaUX0AEuPfa?format=jpg&name=large

PSV and Feyenoord are well inline with us, actually probably a bit less.

 
bob1873 said:
Totally yesterday was THE big opportunity missed. Fine margins but missed. No final in a long time. If ever the gap financially makes it more and more difficult.
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There won't be any CL drop outs in the EL from the 24/25 season.

Usually at least one finalist has come through that route, in theory it means that for the years where we failed to navigate CL qualifiers we'd have a better chance of getting to the EL final.
 
ecossebear said:
Since our return we’ve had a europa league group stage and respectable effort, two last 16s and a final. That’s a great run for any team. Probably not many teams in the Europa league have a better record over that 4 year window. Especially when the first two we had to qualify from the very first round!
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That's still no indication of getting to more finals in the foreseeable future. Not when almost all the opposition we'll face will be on much, much better TV deals and sponsorship. If we'd won the other night I think I'd have died happy knowing we were amongst the cream of Europe for a season and had the Trophy to prove it.
 
Treble Kings said:
That's still no indication of getting to more finals in the foreseeable future. Not when almost all the opposition we'll face will be on much, much better TV deals and sponsorship. If we'd won the other night I think I'd have died happy knowing we were amongst the cream of Europe for a season and had the Trophy to prove it.
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Agreed mate I won’t see us win one now (I’m 60). Opportunity lost or missed or blown - take your pick.
 
I have my doubts,it's harder than ever for small nations to make a mark in Europe.
This group of players have punched above their weight in Europe,they are now about to be broken up,massive summer ahead for GvB and Wilson to try and keep this level of performance in European competition.
 
LaudrupsLocks said:
I think the chances of me seeing our team in another final are slim & I am 33. This is what keeps ringing round in my head.

I do feel incredibly lucky & privileged to have witnessed the team in 2 major European finals.

I pray my son who is nearly 3 will get to witness this on at least 1 occasion, hopefully with a better outcome.
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I think a lot of people are underestimating the likelihood of more finals, and even winning one.

Maybe people are scarred from the 90s and stuck thinking of us as being tactically naive and outclassed.

The last three or four seasons have shown that we can get to knockout stages relatively regularly.

To me, this is down to all the things that we've caught up with compared to continental teams (fitness, nutrition, no drinking culture, tactics, shape, off-the-ball hassling/positioning etc)

We are around the 32nd best team in Europe in the rankings, and will be higher next season.

So logic dictates there are 16 teams in the knockout stages of the champions League, and 16 teams in the knockout stages of the Europa, that we will be there in the knockout stages fairly regularly, every season or two at least

Once you are in the knockout stages you are in with a shout.

In rough numbers we are vestly financially outmuscled by the top 20 European sides, but are easily/definately able to compete and beat those in the 20-40 in the rankings.

If you look at the list of Europa finalists the last ten to fifteen years there's been a majority/loads of sides that are financially comparable to us, and comparable to us in the rankings.

Summary - the idea that we won't get to finals for 20 to 30 years is an out-of-date viewpoint, that says we are not worthy of our top 30 place on the rankings and not worthy of knockout stages. We are there on merit, and will continue to be. Perhaps even moving closer to the top 20 teams in Europe, as we recover financially from our relegation down the league's ten years ago.
 
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The Conference League is a realistic target but the difference between that and the EL/CL is there is no prestige. They’ve literally just created the trophy and tournament so there’s no history behind it. They should’ve resurrected the ECWC instead. There’s decades of history behind that one
 
crmpicco said:
The Conference League is a realistic target but the difference between that and the EL/CL is there is no prestige. They’ve literally just created the trophy and tournament so there’s no history behind it. They should’ve resurrected the ECWC instead. There’s decades of history behind that one
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When I got reading more about West Ham recently I had completely forgotten that they won the Intertoto cup in 1999. I think it ran for around 8 years as a summer Uefa competition. I’m sure West Ham list it as a majour European honour. The conference league feels a bit like that sort of thing to me, at the moment anyway. Agree on the ECWC. At least they could’ve used the original trophy.
 
davhow said:
I said that 14 years ago. You will see more than one, I am so confident of that now.

The bubble has burst for the big club's, they know it that's why they were so desperate for the closed shop.

The biggest names, their ego's are bigger than their ability, they think they are too important to put in a shift. Nobody can afford or is allowed to pay them anymore anyway

The football landscape is changing, levelling out, smaller budgets can succeed with team spirit and workrate.
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We are seeing this more and more. Sheriff Tiraspol proved that this season.
 
foot1efreek said:
I’d be quite disappointed in that as it would mean we hadn’t entered the champions league group stages for that given season.
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i dont just mean for next season , i mean for years ahead it may be our level. as i said earlier though i'd want to do well in CL or EL before thats an option.
 
trueblue77 said:
When I got reading more about West Ham recently I had completely forgotten that they won the Intertoto cup in 1999. I think it ran for around 8 years as a summer Uefa competition. I’m sure West Ham list it as a majour European honour. The conference league feels a bit like that sort of thing to me, at the moment anyway. Agree on the ECWC. At least they could’ve used the original trophy.
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the inter toto was nothing like the conference league.
 
trueblue77 said:
When I got reading more about West Ham recently I had completely forgotten that they won the Intertoto cup in 1999. I think it ran for around 8 years as a summer Uefa competition. I’m sure West Ham list it as a majour European honour. The conference league feels a bit like that sort of thing to me, at the moment anyway. Agree on the ECWC. At least they could’ve used the original trophy.
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That's nonsense is it not? Wasn't their 4 or 5 'winners' who only really won a place in the UEFA Cup?
 
I didnt believe we would after 2008 and we did with everything we have been through

Im still hopeful in my lifetime we will do it again and go one step further but its going to get harder and harder. Playing in Scotland holds us back
 
TheBearNecessities said:
I think a lot of people are underestimating the likelihood of more finals, and even winning one.

Maybe people are scarred from the 90s and stuck thinking of us as being tactically naive and outclassed.

The last three of four seasons have shown that we can get to knockout stages relatively regularly.

To me, this is down to all the things that we've caught up with compared to continental teams (fitness, nutrition, no drinking culture, tactics, shape, off-the-ball hassling/positioning etc)

We are around the 32nd best team in Europe in the rankings, and will be higher next season.

So logic dictates there are 16 teams in the knockout stages of the champions League, and 16 teams in the knockout stages of the Europa, that we will be there in the knockout stages fairly regularly, every season or two at least

Once you are in the knockout stages you are in with a shout.

In rough numbers we are vestly financially outmuscled by the top 20 European sides, but are easily/definately able to compete and beat those in the 20-40 in the rankings.

If you look at the list of Europa finalists the last ten to fifteen years there's been a majority/loads of sides that are financially comparable to us, and comparable to us in the rankings.

Summary - the idea that we won't get to finals for 20 to 30 years is an out-of-date viewpoint, that says we are not worthy of our top 30 place on the rankings and not worthy of knockout stages. We are there on merit, and will continue to be. Perhaps even moving closer to the top 20 teams in Europe, as we recover financially from our relegation down the league's ten years ago.
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I hope you are spot on. We know we aren't big time in terms of revenue generation. That's unfortunately unlikely to change. It's a pretty big obstacle to overcome, but we were extremely close to doing just that on Wednesday.

If we are to succeed, then everyone at the club from top to bottom has to share your mindset. The standards have been raised. It's the boards job (as well as our coaching staff) to ensure those standards aren't allowed to drop and we don't look at ourselves as the poor wee guys of Europe who don't stand a chance. If that happens, then it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.
 
Drop the Shoulder said:
For all the chat that a European final is once in a lifetime or once in a generation for a club like ours, I have to disagree.

Taking Manchester in 2008 into account, we have since played in European competitions on 10 occasions.

07/08 - UEFA Cup runners up
08/09 - CL 2nd Qualifying Round
09/10 - CL Group Stage
10/11 - CL Group Stage
11/12 - CL 3rd Qualifying Round
17/18 - EL 1st Qualifying Round
18/19 - EL Group Stage
19/20 - EL Round of 16
20/21 - EL Round of 16
21/22 - EL runners up

So in our last 10 European campaigns, we have reached two finals. That isn't once in a lifetime or once in generation. Rangers are not expected to reach finals but there is absolutely nothing stopping us from doing so again, especially with the introduction of a third European competition this season with the Conference League.

I am absolutely gutted about last night's result but I'm immensely proud of the team and my club.

Rangers WILL make another European final before long. Let's just hope we can go one step further when we do.
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Next season, ... please.;)
 
TheBearNecessities said:
I think a lot of people are underestimating the likelihood of more finals, and even winning one.

Maybe people are scarred from the 90s and stuck thinking of us as being tactically naive and outclassed.

The last three of four seasons have shown that we can get to knockout stages relatively regularly.

To me, this is down to all the things that we've caught up with compared to continental teams (fitness, nutrition, no drinking culture, tactics, shape, off-the-ball hassling/positioning etc)

We are around the 32nd best team in Europe in the rankings, and will be higher next season.

So logic dictates there are 16 teams in the knockout stages of the champions League, and 16 teams in the knockout stages of the Europa, that we will be there in the knockout stages fairly regularly, every season or two at least

Once you are in the knockout stages you are in with a shout.

In rough numbers we are vestly financially outmuscled by the top 20 European sides, but are easily/definately able to compete and beat those in the 20-40 in the rankings.

If you look at the list of Europa finalists the last ten to fifteen years there's been a majority/loads of sides that are financially comparable to us, and comparable to us in the rankings.

Summary - the idea that we won't get to finals for 20 to 30 years is an out-of-date viewpoint, that says we are not worthy of our top 30 place on the rankings and not worthy of knockout stages. We are there on merit, and will continue to be. Perhaps even moving closer to the top 20 teams in Europe, as we recover financially from our relegation down the league's ten years ago.
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This is a good post, I like your optimism, I only wish I shared it.


Unfortunately being stuck in the backwater that is Scottish fitbaw is the reason for the lack of shared belief,

When you look at the majority of other leagues in Europe, they are all growing year by year, the FA’s in these countries are always growing the reputation & finances that the clubs receive.

This is certainly not the case in Scotland & will ultimately mean that many other smaller clubs in Europe than ourselves will grow & ultimately have better finances to compete at a decent European level.

Scottish football has hated itself to death for years now & I don’t see it stopping anytime soon.
 
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