Were we ever the best team in Europe?

[Famous RFC]

As nostalgia has been washing over me recently and as a follow on to my last post about previous European campaigns. Whilst looking into these European outings I fell into many rabbit holes, mostly enjoyable though!

The ELO ratings had us as #2 in February 1968 and we have been in the top 10 on numerous occasions and for long periods of time, top 20 around the first CL campaign and in the 30's around the 2008 UEFA run. We are now in the mid 40's for the first time in over a decade and improving.

A question that kept crossing my mind was, were Rangers the best team in Europe at any point post 1955/56, or indeed do you think we were at any point prior to organised European football, the days of playing Dynamo Moscow in 1945 or in the era of Mr. Struth?

It is purely fanciful and impossible to prove but I certainly have the feeling that teams we have had, at certain points in time, did not achieve what their undoubted talents would have indicated (mid 60's, late 70's), conversely some teams outperformed (2008 UEFA etc.).

As always there are many variables and mitigating factors and reading about some of those great teams it appears that bad luck, bad judgement and sometimes poor game management contributed to our downfall.
Endlessly fascinating and helps me fill the gaps between games at the moment, bit like historical Championship Manager .

who kept us off top spot Real Madrid?

 

[Hotdog Time]

My mate's Da insists that the Rangers team of the mid-60's is still the best he's ever seen.

These takes always baffle me. There's misty eyed romantic nostalgia, and there's being daft. Put them up against the current team, or take the current team back to the 60s, and they'd absolutely scud them

 

[Vince]

The crazy thing is that Marseille were better than us that year. I watched both games and no one will convince me that we were better than them despite the draws and their corruption. However it’s true that without their corruption it could have been us in the final.

 

[monkey magic]

These takes always baffle me. There's misty eyed romantic nostalgia, and there's being daft. Put them up against the current team, or take the current team back to the 60s, and they'd absolutely scud them

Everyone's memories are different, mate. I was never going to argue with him either. He'd have punched my lights out. lol

 

[Hotdog Time]

Everyone's memories are different, mate. I was never going to argue with him either. He'd have punched my lights out. lol

Haha aye I get what you're saying mate, but it's pointless comparing that team to the team of today. The game has developed to such an extent it's unrecognisable from that era.

 

[Ronnietheranger]

At the start of the 1933-34 season we had won 6 of the last 7 Scottish Championships with one of the most powerful squads in our history. We were invited to take on Herbert Chapman's Arsenal who were on course for their 2nd of 3 straight English Championships for an 'unofficial' British Championship. On September 20th of 1933 we beat the English Champions 2-0 at Ibrox & beat them again by 3-1 at Highbury a week later for a 5-1 aggregate victory. IMO this team would have been a match for any team in world football at the time, with the British game, rightly or wrongly being touted as one of the strongest in the world.

 

[Hillbear]

To give a little context to when we were regarded, statistically, as #2 in Europe, here is the top 30 in February 1968, basically football royalty with a couple of interesting German teams, Nürnberg & Braunschweig, both in Bundesliga 2 now but very much strong clubs back in the 60's. Our favourite Hungarian team are in there, showing their great history and Dinamo Kiev.


1 ESP 1 Real Madrid 1900
2 SCO 2 Rangers 1866
3 SCO 3 Celtic 1866
4 ENG 4 Man United 1860
5 ITA 5 Inter 1859
6 ITA 6 Milan 1836
7 ENG 7 Leeds 1832
8 FRG 8 Nürnberg 1817
9 ESP 9 Barcelona 1807
10 FRG 10 Hertha 1807
11 HUN 11 Ferencváros
12 FRG 12 Bayern 1805
13 FRG 13 München 60 1799
14 ITA 14 Napoli 1789
15 FRG 15 Dortmund 1787
16 ITA 16 Juventus 1784
17 ITA 17 Torino 1781
18 ITA 18 Bologna 1779
19 ITA 19 Fiorentina 1779
20 ESP 20 Atlético 1778
21 ENG 21 Liverpool 1775
22 FRG 22 Köln 1775
23 POR 23 Benfica 1774
24 FRG 24 Braunschweig 1762
25 FRG 25 Stuttgart 1759
26 FRG 26 Werder 1758
27 URS 27 Динамо Київ 1758
28 FRG 28 Gladbach 1758
29 ENG 29 Everton 1756
30 ENG 30 Man City 1753

 

[VelvetOrange]

Willoughby wasn't even in the squad for that game, a massive mistake by Symon. He had Davie Wison in the squad, player who was always worth a goal in any game but declined to play him also

Alex Willoughby put in a transfer request after not being picked for the Slavia Sofia home game. Understand his frustration but that effectively closed the door for Nuremburg.
In the end he wasnt sold and was an important player in67-68 but largely sidelimed for 68 -69.

 

[WAAP]

1964 we would have won the European Cup, if the Vienna Rapide hammer thrower had not broken James Curran Baxter’s leg.

 

[Giovanni Van Henry]

The year mols got injured against Bayern . He was prob the most in form striker in Europe and if we didn’t lose him we would’ve won the champions league

 

[VelvetOrange]

It's hard to square up that we were best because results show otherwise. Tankings from Eintracht, Real and Spurs and defeats from the likes of Anderlecht point to our nievety then. Our 72 Ecwc winning team is fondly looked back on - and rightly so, but anyone who watched our League form that season will conclude that we were great at times but not consistent enough.
I reckon the 20's and 30's may have been different had there been European football.

 

[spotlight]

In the 30's. Also the biggest club in the world.
The regular friendlies between Rangers and Arsenal were the big two in Britain, and thus the world.
And Rangers were top in those games

 

[NorthSection]

My guess is that, if European competitions existed in Struth's time, he would have secured the European Cup.

Not much else to base my opinion on rather than his outstanding trophy haul. In any case I'd be inclined to say we were the best in Europe at some point during his management,

 

[Bigeye]

From what I've picked up on FF Rangers would go on European 'Tours' in the '30's and beat teams in Germany and Austria. The tour results would show we were ahead of the Europeans at that time. By the mid 50's Madrid had started bringing players over from SA and dominated Europe. Scottish football was too arrogant to admit we were being left behind. The results in the '58 WC showed the SFA up. beat 7-0 by Uruguay.

 

[Spyro]

Early 90s we were recognised as one of the greatest European teams - it was what put Rangers on the map for this 7 year old English kid and got my interest on us. The best? As always, a matter for debate.

 

[Super gers 1973]

1993 team must come close.

 

[Chinggis_could_I_khant]

92-93 team may not have been the silkiest to watch but, for spirit and will to win, it was the best team in Europe. This year's team has a similar feel. Hope we can carry it on 'till the end of the season and go one better than 2008.

 

[Al khobar-ger]

The year mols got injured against Bayern . He was prob the most in form striker in Europe and if we didn’t lose him we would’ve won the champions league

This for me , they have never received a chasing like that on their own patch , and walked away with the spoils

 

[wee bud's pit boots]

We probably were in the 60’s. Shot ourselves in the foot with things like not paying Baxter and getting rid of Forrest. Those are also reasons why that lot won 9.

The results in the early 60s tend to suggest not.

For all we laud them, Any combination of Ritchie, Shearer, Caldow/Provan and Davis/Paterson/McKinnon and Baxter did not a robust defense make.

1968 and 1969 and missed chances in the first legs at Ibrox and a missed penalty did for us in those years.

We would have ruled the world when Struth was in his pomp. No good to us now when it was too early for the European history books.

 

[rfcforever]

65-68?? All about opinions i guess but you'll need all the ifs buts and maybes you can find to carry that argument.

When DJ scored the winner in 1970, that was our first trophy in 4 years or so. So while the late 60's team was undoubtedly something special, regrettably we were not even the best in Scotland at that time. Given that we made the ECWC final in 67 and only lost in a replay to Bayern because we stupidly got rid of our best striker, I would put us easily in the top 5 in Europe at that time.

I am assuming that I will be accused of not being staunch enough with this opinion :

 

[Johansen]

When DJ scored the winner in 1970, that was our first trophy in 4 years or so. So while the late 60's team was undoubtedly something special, regrettably we were not even the best in Scotland at that time. Given that we made the ECWC final in 67 and only lost in a replay to Bayern because we stupidly got rid of our best striker, I would put us easily in the top 5 in Europe at that time.

I am assuming that I will be accused of not being staunch enough with this opinion :

We lost the game v Bayern in Nuremberg after extra time, it never went to a replay

 

[TN8]

We weren't far off in 92/93 I'd say. Add Laudrup or Gascoigne to that team and we'd have gone all the way.

 

[rfcforever]

We lost the game v Bayern in Nuremberg after extra time, it never went to a replay

Of course you are right, mate. Knew the game was drawn, have somehow got it into my head that there was a replay

 

[Charing]

When DJ scored the winner in 1970, that was our first trophy in 4 years or so. So while the late 60's team was undoubtedly something special, regrettably we were not even the best in Scotland at that time. Given that we made the ECWC final in 67 and only lost in a replay to Bayern because we stupidly got rid of our best striker, I would put us easily in the top 5 in Europe at that time.

I am assuming that I will be accused of not being staunch enough with this opinion :

Far from being unstaunch, I would say you may be wearing blue tinted specs.
This 65-68 assertion puzzles me. It would be generous to put us easily in the top 5 in Britain never mind Europe.
This was the era of Best Law & Charlton peaking, Shankly's Liverpool blooming, and we know what happened against Revie's Leeds in 68. And that's not to mention the wonderful Chelsea side of that era and you know who across the city.
The earlier poster who claimed we were the best team in EUROPE sometime between 65-68 may just have been having a laugh.
You have to do something to pass the time!

 

[rfcforever]

Far from being unstaunch, I would say you may be wearing blue tinted specs.
This 65-68 assertion puzzles me. It would be generous to put us easily in the top 5 in Britain never mind Europe.
This was the era of Best Law & Charlton peaking, Shankly's Liverpool blooming, and we know what happened against Revie's Leeds in 68. And that's not to mention the wonderful Chelsea side of that era and you know who across the city.
The earlier poster who claimed we were the best team in EUROPE sometime between 65-68 may just have been having a laugh.
You have to do something to pass the time!

My unstaunchness suggestion was just to cover my implied admission that celtc were better than us at that time

Otherwise I was only thinking of how two teams from the same city made the European finals in the same year. Maybe reduce my assertion to 1966-67!!

 

[Alex Venters]

As nostalgia has been washing over me recently and as a follow on to my last post about previous European campaigns. Whilst looking into these European outings I fell into many rabbit holes, mostly enjoyable though!

The ELO ratings had us as #2 in February 1968 and we have been in the top 10 on numerous occasions and for long periods of time, top 20 around the first CL campaign and in the 30's around the 2008 UEFA run. We are now in the mid 40's for the first time in over a decade and improving.

A question that kept crossing my mind was, were Rangers the best team in Europe at any point post 1955/56, or indeed do you think we were at any point prior to organised European football, the days of playing Dynamo Moscow in 1945 or in the era of Mr. Struth?

It is purely fanciful and impossible to prove but I certainly have the feeling that teams we have had, at certain points in time, did not achieve what their undoubted talents would have indicated (mid 60's, late 70's), conversely some teams outperformed (2008 UEFA etc.).

As always there are many variables and mitigating factors and reading about some of those great teams it appears that bad luck, bad judgement and sometimes poor game management contributed to our downfall.
Endlessly fascinating and helps me fill the gaps between games at the moment, bit like historical Championship Manager .

I'd say the Iron Curtain side must've been right up there.
The teams of the 1920's and 30's too.

 

[Alex Venters]

These takes always baffle me. There's misty eyed romantic nostalgia, and there's being daft. Put them up against the current team, or take the current team back to the 60s, and they'd absolutely scud them

Simply not true.
Who'd get in the Rangers side of 1967 from the current side?
I'd say, Shagger, Borna, Davis and Alfie.

 

[Peedzy]

Early 90s we were recognised as one of the greatest European teams - it was what put Rangers on the map for this 7 year old English kid and got my interest on us. The best? As always, a matter for debate.

Oh behave. I love the staunchness, but that's a stretch.

 

[Hotdog Time]

Simply not true.
Who'd get in the Rangers side of 1967 from the current side?
I'd say, Shagger, Borna, Davis and Alfie.

Are you serious? The 67 team would be chasing shadows the whole game. It's just a totally different game. It's like arguing Fred Perry would beat Roger Federer

 

[Blaew]

The year mols got injured against Bayern . He was prob the most in form striker in Europe and if we didn’t lose him we would’ve won the champions league

We got taken apart by Valencia who in turn got taken apart by Real Madrid in the final.

 

[Googsly 8]

The battle of Britain v Leeds... Won home and away to the English champions,, mcoist and Hatley,,, f%ckin amazing. What year was that again?

 

[Alex Venters]

Are you serious? The 67 team would be chasing shadows the whole game. It's just a totally different game. It's like arguing Fred Perry would beat Roger Federer

100% serious.
The level of ability was much higher then. If you transported the 1967 side to the present day with all the advantages of Sports Science etc they'd beat this current side with a bit to spare.

 

[Hotdog Time]

100% serious.
The level of ability was much higher then. If you transported the 1967 side to the present day with all the advantages of Sports Science etc they'd beat this current side with a bit to spare.

Okay

 

[HandsomeHead]

The ELO ratings had us as #2 in February 1968

As a matter of interest, who was number 1?

 

[LaudrupTheGreat]

In 92 we were IMO and also on our day in 99/2000 but never reflective on the park undwr
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