We've Put The Morelos Myth To Bed, So Sunday Should Be Interesting.

MearnsUnionist

Well-Known Member
#1
..... You know, the one where many of us thought we were almost a one man team and never looked like winning or scoring without him.

From the minute Fredo got sent off at the piggery, our players have shown that we're definitely not totally reliant on him.

The change in formation and a couple of personnel has seen us become far more solid at the back.

The midfield balance of Davis, Kamara and Jack looks almost perfect and the introduction of Defoe, with his link up play with Arfield in particular, but also Kent , has seen us become a real potent attacking force.

Both Defoe and Arfield went off on Sunday carrying knocks, so it's likely both will be missing on Sunday.

There may well be a couple of others missing too.

Fredo will definitely be up front and it will be interesting to see how he adapts to the new system.

Will he be as intelligent and unselfish as Defoe in the position and who will play the Arfield role?

I'm looking forward to the game and finding out if we've got other players within the squad that can step in, adapt to the formation and let us finish the season with another win.
 

Union Jack 1872

Well-Known Member
#2
..... You know, the one where many of us thought we were almost a one man team and never looked like winning or scoring without him.

From the minute Fredo got sent off at the piggery, our players have shown that we're definitely not totally reliant on him.

The change in formation and a couple of personnel has seen us become far more solid at the back.

The midfield balance of Davis, Kamara and Jack looks almost perfect and the introduction of Defoe, with his link up play with Arfield in particular, but also Kent , has seen us become a real potent attacking force.

Both Defoe and Arfield went off on Sunday carrying knocks, so it's likely both will be missing on Sunday.

There may well be a couple of others missing too.

Fredo will definitely be up front and it will be interesting to see how he adapts to the new system.

Will he be as intelligent and unselfish as Defoe in the position and who will play the Arfield role?

I'm looking forward to the game and finding out if we've got other players within the squad that can step in, adapt to the formation and let us finish the season with another win.
Said in the other thread we are a better team with out him as very often the move breaks down when the ball comes to him .
 

Barryhopez

Well-Known Member
#3
..... You know, the one where many of us thought we were almost a one man team and never looked like winning or scoring without him.

From the minute Fredo got sent off at the piggery, our players have shown that we're definitely not totally reliant on him.

The change in formation and a couple of personnel has seen us become far more solid at the back.

The midfield balance of Davis, Kamara and Jack looks almost perfect and the introduction of Defoe, with his link up play with Arfield in particular, but also Kent , has seen us become a real potent attacking force.

Both Defoe and Arfield went off on Sunday carrying knocks, so it's likely both will be missing on Sunday.

There may well be a couple of others missing too.

Fredo will definitely be up front and it will be interesting to see how he adapts to the new system.

Will he be as intelligent and unselfish as Defoe in the position and who will play the Arfield role?

I'm looking forward to the game and finding out if we've got other players within the squad that can step in, adapt to the formation and let us finish the season with another win.
The formation and style of play always suggested it was built round Morelos and his sending off was the catalyst for change........for the better perhaps.
 
Last edited:

Recoba

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
#4
I think we will be resting quite a few on Sunday, you could tell from Gerrard's post match interview on Rtv when he said very sharply the side would look different.

Agreed though this new formation is perfect for us and i hope we continue with it, for years we have been screaming for support to the striker and now we always seem to have players in and around the box.
 

Danger Zone

Well-Known Member
#6
..... You know, the one where many of us thought we were almost a one man team and never looked like winning or scoring without him.

From the minute Fredo got sent off at the piggery, our players have shown that we're definitely not totally reliant on him.

The change in formation and a couple of personnel has seen us become far more solid at the back.

The midfield balance of Davis, Kamara and Jack looks almost perfect and the introduction of Defoe, with his link up play with Arfield in particular, but also Kent , has seen us become a real potent attacking force.

Both Defoe and Arfield went off on Sunday carrying knocks, so it's likely both will be missing on Sunday.

There may well be a couple of others missing too.

Fredo will definitely be up front and it will be interesting to see how he adapts to the new system.

Will he be as intelligent and unselfish as Defoe in the position and who will play the Arfield role?

I'm looking forward to the game and finding out if we've got other players within the squad that can step in, adapt to the formation and let us finish the season with another win.
Until we do it with the pressure on and silverware on the line, nothing will be put to bed. I’ll wager that during dips in form next season we’ll have threads talking about how we should have tried harder to hold onto him.
 

BaTmAn

Well-Known Member
#7
It'll be Alfredo and Candeias with Barasic for Flanagan i'd imagine.

As much as I love Candeias's attitude i'd like to see Docherty play in the Arfield position (if he is allowed to?).

It would maybe begin to answer some questions about next season.
 

ItsInTheNet

Well-Known Member
#9
Well if he starts here's hoping he doesn't fall prey to that awful artificial pitch since, as looks likely, this will be his last game for us.
 

GR6Ger

Well-Known Member
#11
It would be nonsense to suggest that Morelos wouldn't be able to adapt to the change in system. The likelihood is that he won't get the time to before he leaves.
 
#12
It was not a myth. Not even close. Before the change of tactics and before Defoe started really firing, we were 100% reliant on him both for goals and for his play up front. Any absence was followed by a turgid performance where we struggled to make anything stick up front.

Things have certainly changed recently, the new formation and Defoe, with Arfield running past him, is a lot more 'stable' (wrong word I think?) and a lot less reliant on individuals but it simply canot be argued that we were not heavily reliant on Morelos for the first 3/4 of the season.
 
#15
I hope we give them a horsing so Clarke gives up on life.

That said i thought he was leaving at the end of the season but read an article about how him and Alex Dyer were planning for next season
 

MearnsUnionist

Well-Known Member
#16
It was not a myth. Not even close. Before the change of tactics and before Defoe started really firing, we were 100% reliant on him both for goals and for his play up front. Any absence was followed by a turgid performance where we struggled to make anything stick up front.

Things have certainly changed recently, the new formation and Defoe, with Arfield running past him, is a lot more 'stable' (wrong word I think?) and a lot less reliant on individuals but it simply canot be argued that we were not heavily reliant on Morelos for the first 3/4 of the season.

We were reliant on him, no question mate, but do you think that was more because of the formation we were playing, or the actual player?
 

coplandrearl36

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
#19
One swallow is not a sign of Spring.

Depending what happens over the transfer window will go a long way in deciding if we will miss him (if he goes).
Morelos dug us out a good few results over the course of the season. The last 6 games show that we are adaptable and can play without him.
IMO it is good that the squad can play different systems formations with or without him, it means as a squad they are improving.
His strength against the bottom 6 teams was a great asset, he stood up to the physical side of that. It was against the top 6 sides he took the niggle for whatever reason.
 
#21
We were reliant on him, no question mate, but do you think that was more because of the formation we were playing, or the actual player?
We had nobody to play up front instead of him until Christmas so the formation was tailored to getting the best out of him. It meant that when he was missing we had 2 problems; 1, literally nobody good enough to come in and do the job and 2, a formation and tactic that either had to be changed for a game or that had to try and function without the fulcrum.

Once Defoe came onto a game, Davis and Kamara rounded off the 'deeper' midfield and Arfield was freed up a little Gerrard was able to change the formation to one that suited the squad a good bit more. He was the best player in Scotland for large periods this season too, which kind of made him indispensable anyway, but we were fully geared towards everything going through him. So to answer your question, Both :D
 

RFC97

Well-Known Member
#22
It would be nonsense to suggest that Morelos wouldn't be able to adapt to the change in system. The likelihood is that he won't get the time to before he leaves.
There is reason to believe otherwise.

His game is built around holding the ball up, and flourishes when he is isolated.

He is also fairy selfish in his play which wouldn’t work.

He likes to hit the deck which slows down the game at times.

What evidence is there to suggest he could adapt? Maybe he couldn’t.
 

MSF

Well-Known Member
#24
There is reason to believe otherwise.

His game is built around holding the ball up, and flourishes when he is isolated.

He is also fairy selfish in his play which wouldn’t work.

He likes to hit the deck which slows down the game at times.

What evidence is there to suggest he could adapt? Maybe he couldn’t.
Talk to me about Defoe & this formation.

I’m interested because the only thing Defoe has over Morelos is movement/intelligence IMO. Which is to be expected at 36 years old, if he didn’t have that he would be finished by now.
 

Sheamaker

Well-Known Member
#28
I dont understand this we look better without Morelos. All season we have been hopeless without him, what has changed is the change in system and we look better with that.
 

MSF

Well-Known Member
#29
Its not really a myth though is it mate?

Lets look at the facts.

The games Morelos didn’t play in, when the pressure was on & title hopes still alive:

P6 W2 GF 7 (6 of these goals & the 2 wins v Hamilton)
Dundee 1-1
Hamilton 1-0
St Johnstone 0-0
Hamilton 5-0
Killie 0-0
Aberdeen 0-1

Without Morelos, pressure off & title hopes over:
P6 W6 GF 14
Hearts 3-0
Motherwell 3-0
Hearts 3-1
Aberdeen 2-0
Hibs 1-0
Celtic 2-0

Mightily impressive, but not when context is used.
 

RFC97

Well-Known Member
#30
Talk to me about Defoe & this formation.

I’m interested because the only thing Defoe has over Morelos is movement/intelligence IMO. Which is to be expected at 36 years old, if he didn’t have that he would be finished by now.
Links up better with Arfield imo, doesn’t hold onto the ball for as long, more intelligence.

Not slagging Morelos here top player but that doesn’t mean he fits our new system better.
 

MearnsUnionist

Well-Known Member
#32
Its not really a myth though is it mate?

Lets look at the facts.

The games Morelos didn’t play in, when the pressure was on & title hopes still alive:

P6 W2 GF 7 (6 of these goals & the 2 wins v Hamilton)
Dundee 1-1
Hamilton 1-0
St Johnstone 0-0
Hamilton 5-0
Killie 0-0
Aberdeen 0-1

Without Morelos, pressure off & title hopes over:
P6 W6 GF 14
Hearts 3-0
Motherwell 3-0
Hearts 3-1
Aberdeen 2-0
Hibs 1-0
Celtic 2-0

Mightily impressive, but not when context is used.
Point taken but......

2 different formations for those 2 sets of results mate.

I don't think we can understate just how much better we look, both as a team, as well as individually in the new xmas tree style formation.

I honestly think it's more about the new formation, rather than the pressure being off.

Obviously just my opinion though.
 

brain

Well-Known Member
#34
The new formation suits Defoe far better than Morelos but if we'd played like this all season Morelos's goal tally would be in the 30s.
 

MSF

Well-Known Member
#36
Links up better with Arfield imo, doesn’t hold onto the ball for as long, more intelligence.

Not slagging Morelos here top player but that doesn’t mean he fits our new system better.
Morelos link up with Arfield was one the main positives of our play in the first half of the season.

He is more intelligent but probably isn’t as good a finisher anymore, can’t create chances from nothing, isn’t effective outside the box, easily bullied, isn’t as good on the ball & so on.

Morelos can be fitted in to this system easily, and is a better player than Defoe.
 
#37
Morelos is a great lone striker but doesn’t suit a team which wants to dominate and control games. This is why we often struggle to look like a cohesive unit in games against the weaker SPFL sides.

It’s clear now that we’ve adapted our team to control games and the experience of Defoe has been pivotal in that.

Morelos would be more suited to playing for a team that’s backs to the wall. I reckon he’ll go on to have a good career at a bottom half EPL side or mid table French team. But it would be best for both parties if we could sell him in summer and bring in a forward more suited to our style of play.

The Gerrard system is working in full flow now and is much bigger than Morelos.
 

cav

Well-Known Member
#39
It’s pretty ironic that in losing arguably our best player we look much better as a team.
That’s not Morelos’ fault imo,it’s just how the dice roll sometimes in football.
There’s a reason a once famous pundit called it ‘a funny old game saint’
 

SuperGers07

Well-Known Member
#40
..... You know, the one where many of us thought we were almost a one man team and never looked like winning or scoring without him.

From the minute Fredo got sent off at the piggery, our players have shown that we're definitely not totally reliant on him.

The change in formation and a couple of personnel has seen us become far more solid at the back.

The midfield balance of Davis, Kamara and Jack looks almost perfect and the introduction of Defoe, with his link up play with Arfield in particular, but also Kent , has seen us become a real potent attacking force.

Both Defoe and Arfield went off on Sunday carrying knocks, so it's likely both will be missing on Sunday.

There may well be a couple of others missing too.

Fredo will definitely be up front and it will be interesting to see how he adapts to the new system.

Will he be as intelligent and unselfish as Defoe in the position and who will play the Arfield role?

I'm looking forward to the game and finding out if we've got other players within the squad that can step in, adapt to the formation and let us finish the season with another win.

This will be his final appearance, manager has supposedly also told a number of first team players to head off early on their summer break, so will be a different line up this week for sure
 

RFC97

Well-Known Member
#41
Morelos link up with Arfield was one the main positives of our play in the first half of the season.

He is more intelligent but probably isn’t as good a finisher anymore, can’t create chances from nothing, isn’t effective outside the box, easily bullied, isn’t as good on the ball & so on.

Morelos can be fitted in to this system easily, and is a better player than Defoe.
The Morelos/Arfield link up didn’t last that long and wasn’t as telepathic as it is with Defoe.

Defoe bullied off the ball? Not something I’ve noticed. He’s held it up plenty and put 6ft plus defenders on their arse a few times.

Creating chances out of nothing isn’t something we really require in a striker. It’s what we became reliant upon to our detriment, and is not what our new system tried to achieve - so in terms of whether Morelos can play the new system, I don’t think it’s a relevant point.

We will realistically see him play for us one more time so the debate is academic anyway.
 

RFC97

Well-Known Member
#42
He's 36 so could start declining from this (great) level he's put in for us. He also can't be expected to be able to play 50+ games at that age so we clearly need strong other options.
I’m not suggesting otherwise. A player out of his mould during the summer would be a start.
 

BrooklynBlue

Well-Known Member
#43
Mightily impressive, but not when context is used.
What about the context of the team developing and the coaching staff learning? Things that would be hoped for over the course of a season with a rookie manager. SG's RTV interview confirmed how management have had to adapt and adjust through experience.

I'd say this is more relevant than the 'pressure being off'.
 

Knightswoodbear

Well-Known Member
#45
They won it in Aberdeen with 2 games left to play in the league, not 6.
It's amazing how much some people insist on running down a cracking vein of form. We can't go on about how every team below us treat us as their cup final, how Aberdeen would crawl over broken glass to beat us then change the narrative when it suits. So presumably Aberdeen, Hibs, Celtic weren't all that bothered about losing to us in the split fixtures then?
 

MSF

Well-Known Member
#47
The Morelos/Arfield link up didn’t last that long and wasn’t as telepathic as it is with Defoe.

Defoe bullied off the ball? Not something I’ve noticed. He’s held it up plenty and put 6ft plus defenders on their arse a few times.

Creating chances out of nothing isn’t something we really require in a striker. It’s what we became reliant upon to our detriment, and is not what our new system tried to achieve - so in terms of whether Morelos can play the new system, I don’t think it’s a relevant point.

We will realistically see him play for us one more time so the debate is academic anyway.
Didn’t last long? How so?

The new formation gets Arfield closer to Defoe so obviously their link up looks better at the moment. Maybe it is, two really intelligent experienced footballers.

He gets flung about all the time, especially on Sunday where he rarely touched the ball but got put on his arse multiple times.

If his name wasn’t Jermain Defoe he wouldn’t be so lauded on here & would come under more criticism for the big chances he misses & all round play
 

MSF

Well-Known Member
#49
What about the context of the team developing and the coaching staff learning? Things that would be hoped for over the course of a season with a rookie manager. SG's RTV interview confirmed how management have had to adapt and adjust through experience.

I'd say this is more relevant than the 'pressure being off'.
Look at it that way if you want, but its dangerous to take too much from glorified friendlys.
 

50p Flute

Well-Known Member
#50
It's amazing how much some people insist on running down a cracking vein of form. We can't go on about how every team below us treat us as their cup final, how Aberdeen would crawl over broken glass to beat us then change the narrative when it suits. So presumably Aberdeen, Hibs, Celtic weren't all that bothered about losing to us in the split fixtures then?
If they are going to do it then fair enough, but if they can't get their numbers right it just invalidates their point and makes them look like numpties.
 
Top