We've Put The Morelos Myth To Bed, So Sunday Should Be Interesting.

Jjbscotty

Well-Known Member
#51
Didn’t last long? How so?

The new formation gets Arfield closer to Defoe so obviously their link up looks better at the moment. Maybe it is, two really intelligent experienced footballers.

He gets flung about all the time, especially on Sunday where he rarely touched the ball but got put on his arse multiple times.

If his name wasn’t Jermain Defoe he wouldn’t be so lauded on here & would come under more criticism for the big chances he misses & all round play
You’re talking pish about Defoe getting flung around all the time.
 

BrooklynBlue

Well-Known Member
#52
Look at it that way if you want, but its dangerous to take too much from glorified friendlys.
Oh come on, now they are "glorified friendlies". Some just love to be contrary and a little joyless.

And who's taking too much? FF is full of transfer rumours and players we're wanting to bring in. No one is convinced we currently have a title-winning squad - especially the management.
 

AriseSirWalter

Well-Known Member
#53
Not sure we'll play 4321 if Arfield isn't available, a lot of the goal threat in this formation is caused by someone to play in the 2 behind the striker who will get beyond the striker and score goals. Neither Candeias or Kent can shown they can do that.

Also Arfield plays with his back to the goal when midfield has it, where he makes himself available for a quick one-two to allow midfield to escape press or he turns quickly and attacks defense. Arfield is the most important player in that formation IMO.

If Arfield and Defoe are missing then I expect we'd go with;

Fod
Tav Goldson Katic Halliday
Jack Davis Kamara
Candeias Morelos Kent​

Which would be interesting, the 'new' midfield would give us much more control. I'd probably go with Barasic instead of Halliday as I don't think Candeias and Kent provide enough service so would have 2 attacking fullbacks.
 

dt17

Well-Known Member
#54
Don't understand how people can say we're better without him? We've changed a system which was overly reliant on Morelos doing everything himself, we've brought Katic back and now Davis is finding form.

Instead of saying that proves we don't need Morelos, why not put Morelos into that team and see how we do.
 

BrooklynBlue

Well-Known Member
#55
Didn’t last long? How so?

The new formation gets Arfield closer to Defoe so obviously their link up looks better at the moment. Maybe it is, two really intelligent experienced footballers.

He gets flung about all the time, especially on Sunday where he rarely touched the ball but got put on his arse multiple times.

If his name wasn’t Jermain Defoe he wouldn’t be so lauded on here & would come under more criticism for the big chances he misses & all round play
Ah, now Defoe gets the SG treatment. Apparently the manager would have come under more criticism if his name wasn't Gerrard. That was a narrative against those defending the manager a couple of months ago.

He didn't need to touch the ball with Sunday's dummy. I'm sure even that brought a smile to your face.
 

MSF

Well-Known Member
#56
Ah, now Defoe gets the SG treatment. Apparently the manager would have come under more criticism if his name wasn't Gerrard. That was a narrative against those defending the manager a couple of months ago.

He didn't need to touch the ball with Sunday's dummy. I'm sure even that brought a smile to your face.
True regarding Defoe though, Gerrard stuff not relevant as only a blind man couldn’t see how much he has improved our club.
 

MSF

Well-Known Member
#57
Oh come on, now they are "glorified friendlies". Some just love to be contrary and a little joyless.

And who's taking too much? FF is full of transfer rumours and players we're wanting to bring in. No one is convinced we currently have a title-winning squad - especially the management.
Plenty folk are taking too much from the split fixtures. Its easy to get carried away & think we’ve solved our problems and can get away with having Defoe as our main striker & Flanagan as our left back.
 

mck1872

Well-Known Member
#58
Point taken but......

2 different formations for those 2 sets of results mate.

I don't think we can understate just how much better we look, both as a team, as well as individually in the new xmas tree style formation.

I honestly think it's more about the new formation, rather than the pressure being off.

Obviously just my opinion though.
You’re 100% spot on mate.

Every game at Rangers is pressure, different pressures but still pressure. 6 wins out of 6 is definitely down to the new system.
 

waltersgotstyle

Well-Known Member
#60
..... You know, the one where many of us thought we were almost a one man team and never looked like winning or scoring without him.

From the minute Fredo got sent off at the piggery, our players have shown that we're definitely not totally reliant on him.

The change in formation and a couple of personnel has seen us become far more solid at the back.

The midfield balance of Davis, Kamara and Jack looks almost perfect and the introduction of Defoe, with his link up play with Arfield in particular, but also Kent , has seen us become a real potent attacking force.

Both Defoe and Arfield went off on Sunday carrying knocks, so it's likely both will be missing on Sunday.

There may well be a couple of others missing too.

Fredo will definitely be up front and it will be interesting to see how he adapts to the new system.

Will he be as intelligent and unselfish as Defoe in the position and who will play the Arfield role?

I'm looking forward to the game and finding out if we've got other players within the squad that can step in, adapt to the formation and let us finish the season with another win.
SSSSHHHHHH - we are still trying to sell him!!

I hope we keep him until after the Copa America and he goes and has a stormer.
 

skeewee

Active Member
#61
Didn’t last long? How so?

The new formation gets Arfield closer to Defoe so obviously their link up looks better at the moment. Maybe it is, two really intelligent experienced footballers.

He gets flung about all the time, especially on Sunday where he rarely touched the ball but got put on his arse multiple times.

If his name wasn’t Jermain Defoe he wouldn’t be so lauded on here & would come under more criticism for the big chances he misses & all round play
I'm certainly not against AM, him and JD are 2 very different players playing in different formation and tactics. but according to a quick google search (believe it or not)

AM has a 55 % average goals to shots, scoring on average a goal every 135 minutes.

JD has a 64 % average, scoring on average a goal every 117 minutes.

The change in formation/tactics has definitely helped JD as he has far more support around him then AM has had playing our other style.

For what it's worth I don't agree with your no pressure point bud, since the game at the piggery, league wasn't over ( almost, but not quite) until their game at the sheep, so I think there was pressure, certainly Celtic were feeling it so I'm sure every one else was too.
 

Arminius

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
#63
They won it in Aberdeen with 2 games left to play in the league, not 6.
I was about to make that point as well.

4 of the last 6 matches absolutely demanded wins, or the title race was dead and buried.

If Nonce FC had lost one game in the run in during the first four matches, we'd have been going into last Sunday knowing a win would take us to the last day.

I don't buy the "pressure off" overly simplistic analysis. It is now, but it wasn't before last Sunday.

Anyway, is any game v the paedo ring ever "no pressure"?
 

Cooperfan

Well-Known Member
#64
Hopefully a youngster or two gets rewarded with game time. That'll obviously be easier if we start well and go a couple up. If Davis and Arfield don't make it I expect McCrorie and Candeias will come in.
 

ClockworkOrange

Well-Known Member
#65
Its not really a myth though is it mate?

Lets look at the facts.

The games Morelos didn’t play in, when the pressure was on & title hopes still alive:

P6 W2 GF 7 (6 of these goals & the 2 wins v Hamilton)
Dundee 1-1
Hamilton 1-0
St Johnstone 0-0
Hamilton 5-0
Killie 0-0
Aberdeen 0-1

Without Morelos, pressure off & title hopes over:
P6 W6 GF 14
Hearts 3-0
Motherwell 3-0
Hearts 3-1
Aberdeen 2-0
Hibs 1-0
Celtic 2-0

Mightily impressive, but not when context is used.
The first set of fixtures demonstrate that Morelos has played in a lot of games in which we've dropped points this season. No one can use these games as evidence for how devastating his loss from the team is when we were dropping points when he was playing.

Fully aware that these kind of posts led to accusations of acting like the mhedia and a lot of retrospective accusations of "OMISSION!" but as a team we're simply less reliant on Morelos than a lot of people think we are. There's a lot of evidence to back this up (lack of actual match-winning goals being one) but some posters just like to ignore it and have a go at you in other threads.

Unhappy the land in need of heroes, indeed.
 

ClockworkOrange

Well-Known Member
#66
I was about to make that point as well.

4 of the last 6 matches absolutely demanded wins, or the title race was dead and buried.

If Nonce FC had lost one game in the run in during the first four matches, we'd have been going into last Sunday knowing a win would take us to the last day.

I don't buy the "pressure off" overly simplistic analysis. It is now, but it wasn't before last Sunday.

Anyway, is any game v the paedo ring ever "no pressure"?
Gerrard recently had a go at members of the club for failing to take a friendly seriously.

Now some posters are trying to make us believe that the "pressure was off" in games against Aberdeen, Celtic and Hibs at the time of the season when everyone's busting a gut to impress given the possible transfer money that Gerrard will be supported with this summer?

Aye, sure.
 

gerz1873

Well-Known Member
#67
Maybe Alfie wasn't helped that much with the formation we played earlier in the season? We will never know but I suspect with Arfield playing the way he is in this system Morelos would have scored many more goals than he did.

Dare I say Alfie may not have been involved as much in of the petulance he was?
 

Drumchapel-Bear

Well-Known Member
#69
I was about to make that point as well.

4 of the last 6 matches absolutely demanded wins, or the title race was dead and buried.

If Nonce FC had lost one game in the run in during the first four matches, we'd have been going into last Sunday knowing a win would take us to the last day.

I don't buy the "pressure off" overly simplistic analysis. It is now, but it wasn't before last Sunday.

Anyway, is any game v the paedo ring ever "no pressure"?
The only people who are relentlessly playing this ''pressure off'' card are folk who are raging that the team has actually done well and been successful without Morelos. It's quite pathetic in all honesty, they are like One Direction Groupies.

It's almost as if they would be happy for us to be sh*te next season without Morelos so they could come back on here and say ''told you so'' and start personal battles on FF.

Thankfully, for the majority of us Rangers winning is more important than any one player. Far better players than Morelos have came and went from our club in the past, we'll be fine, especially if we have a large wedge from his sale sitting in the bank.
 

dt17

Well-Known Member
#70
The first set of fixtures demonstrate that Morelos has played in a lot of games in which we've dropped points this season. No one can use these games as evidence for how devastating his loss from the team is when we were dropping points when he was playing.

Fully aware that these kind of posts led to accusations of acting like the mhedia and a lot of retrospective accusations of "OMISSION!" but as a team we're simply less reliant on Morelos than a lot of people think we are. There's a lot of evidence to back this up (lack of actual match-winning goals being one) but some posters just like to ignore it and have a go at you in other threads.

Unhappy the land in need of heroes, indeed.
That's too much of a simplistic way of looking at it though, because in the games we dropped points, chances are Morelos was the only one who looked likely to score. He was a one man team at times and our tactics were to punt the ball to him and hope for the best.

Re: the pressure being off...we were 12 points behind Celtic playing some teams who had hee haw to play for.
 

1690

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
#72
A colossal factor, we all want to do well, but there’s some real denial too. We’ll see that next season when the same faces are spitting feathers during any downturn in form next season.
I don't think this is a team of bottlers though. The December win showed that, 3 point gap with all to play for and they handled the game perfectly. I'd attribute the losses that followed to a range of factors but none really related to shitting the bed.
 

andrewmont1

Well-Known Member
#73
There is reason to believe otherwise.

His game is built around holding the ball up, and flourishes when he is isolated.

He is also fairy selfish in his play which wouldn’t work.

He likes to hit the deck which slows down the game at times.

What evidence is there to suggest he could adapt? Maybe he couldn’t.
I've said this on previous threads. He is a little 1 dimensional. But it works in Scotland. In a better league with better players of course he would adapt. He will be some player in 5 years time
 

ClockworkOrange

Well-Known Member
#75
That's too much of a simplistic way of looking at it though, because in the games we dropped points, chances are Morelos was the only one who looked likely to score. He was a one man team at times and our tactics were to punt the ball to him and hope for the best.

Re: the pressure being off...we were 12 points behind Celtic playing some teams who had hee haw to play for.
The biggest contributing factor towards us not winning the league has been an inability to make the difference in tight games. We've lost the same number of games as Celtic but drawn three more. The points we've lost in those draws wins us the league.

And in those games we have win by a small margin, Morelos' goals don't make the difference to games as often as they should. I'd argue that the mark of a valuable goalscorer isn't how often they score but when they score. Windass banged in plenty of goals last year but they were mostly superfluous to winning games and as a result posters on here rated him much higher than he actually was. Something similar is happening to Morelos: I think if you remove his goals this season we only end up with 9 fewer points. That's a pish poor return and far smaller than what you'd expect from a Rangers striker.

It just strikes me as mad using Morelos as an example of a one-man team when his rescue acts were far fewer than people expect AND he was playing when we dropped plenty of points. Certain posters seem itching to hit the "I-told-you-so" button.
 
#76
6 games with no title to play for.. there is your caveat.
You don’t think playing Celtc brings its own pressures?
Title at stake or not it was a huge game, the fans going tonto at both goals, the atmosphere electric would suggest so.

You think Rangers took to the field with no pressure? I don’t agree with you.
We also turned in the best performance of the season.
Meaningless, no pressure games often turn out to be turgid effortless affairs.
Not us, we’ve turned the screw and got tore in. The new formation has worked wonders and I’m confident for next season.
 

jackstar

Well-Known Member
#78
I think we will be resting quite a few on Sunday, you could tell from Gerrard's post match interview on Rtv when he said very sharply the side would look different.

Agreed though this new formation is perfect for us and i hope we continue with it, for years we have been screaming for support to the striker and now we always seem to have players in and around the box.
May well give a few of the youth lads an outing,mind you with that surface might not risk it.
 

dt17

Well-Known Member
#79
The biggest contributing factor towards us not winning the league has been an inability to make the difference in tight games. We've lost the same number of games as Celtic but drawn three more. The points we've lost in those draws wins us the league.

And in those games we have win by a small margin, Morelos' goals don't make the difference to games as often as they should. I'd argue that the mark of a valuable goalscorer isn't how often they score but when they score. Windass banged in plenty of goals last year but they were mostly superfluous to winning games and as a result posters on here rated him much higher than he actually was. I think if you remove Morelos' goals this season it comes in as being only 9 points fewer. That's actually significantly smaller than you'd expect from a Rangers striker.

It just strikes me as mad using Morelos as an example of a one-man team when his rescue acts were far fewer than people expect AND he was playing when we dropped plenty of points.
But doing that isn't a real reflection of how games would've panned out. Goals can be turning points in games in terms of momentum etc.

Anyone downplaying Morelos' contribution has their own motives for doing so, but let's not kid on that for a large part of the season, we weren't completely dependant on him during games, maybe not just through goals, but in our overall play everything went through him.
 

ClockworkOrange

Well-Known Member
#80
But doing that isn't a real reflection of how games would've panned out. Goals can be turning points in games in terms of momentum etc.

Anyone downplaying Morelos' contribution has their own motives for doing so, but let's not kid on that for a large part of the season, we weren't completely dependant on him during games, maybe not just through goals, but in our overall play everything went through him.
I don't particularly want to downplay Morelos' contributions to the team; we're just less reliant on him than others think, and for all the talk about him being at the centre of our play, our right back has ten more assists than him.
 

dt17

Well-Known Member
#82
I don't particularly want to downplay Morelos' contributions to the team; we're just less reliant on him than others think, and for all the talk about him being at the centre of our play, our right back has ten more assists than him.
A striker's job isn't really to assist though, it's to score. Morelos is the best in the team at this job.
 

Its-Sebo

Well-Known Member
#83
Putting aside the ‘pressure off’ argument for a moment, the biggest factor in our improved football isn’t Defoe for Morelos, it’s having a match fit Davis/Kamara added to the midfield.

Defoe has done a great job and I’m happy he’s with us, but in my opinion Morelos slots into that role comfortably and takes us up another level (if he stays on the pitch). I also think he’d flourish because A) We now don’t have to rely on him for everything B) Far better service from midfield.

Morelos staying beyond the summer is unlikely, but if he were to stay I think we’d see even more goals from him now that we’ve got a solid and more creative midfield playing behind him.
 

Danger Zone

Well-Known Member
#84
I don't think this is a team of bottlers though. The December win showed that, 3 point gap with all to play for and they handled the game perfectly. I'd attribute the losses that followed to a range of factors but none really related to shitting the bed.
I don’t think one swallow makes a summer. We did brilliantly to win that game, but once we caught up and had the chance to pressure them and towards the business end of the season, we spilled points all over the place. Now the general consensus on here at the time was that our team weren’t up to it mentally (and not technically good enough either according to many). So why has that consensus now changed off the back of 6 wins in relatively meaningless games?

Let’s be completely honest about this, a fair number here have done the standard 180 they tend to do every 5 or 6 games depending on form. The thing that makes me chuckle too, is the chances are the player in question would do every bit as well if not better in the current set up, which still isn’t all that different to the previous one. Looking at all the factors, it looks like people are either showing blind faith and excessive optimism, or rather trying to work a narrative that says Morelos isn’t actually too important to us, because he lets us all down at the piggery. I know which is which for certain posters based on their history, but more generally I think this is the crux of the matter.
 

ClockworkOrange

Well-Known Member
#85
A striker's job isn't really to assist though, it's to score. Morelos is the best in the team at this job.
You cited the fact that "all play came through him" in the first place.

For what has been, for big stretches, a middling season, this isn't as big a deal as it might be.
 

50p Flute

Well-Known Member
#91
I was about to make that point as well.

4 of the last 6 matches absolutely demanded wins, or the title race was dead and buried.

If Nonce FC had lost one game in the run in during the first four matches, we'd have been going into last Sunday knowing a win would take us to the last day.

I don't buy the "pressure off" overly simplistic analysis. It is now, but it wasn't before last Sunday.

Anyway, is any game v the paedo ring ever "no pressure"?
It was a shambles of a comment tbh, the fact people actually read it and backed it up is an even bigger shambles though.
 

daven37

Well-Known Member
#92
I disagree with the OP.

The system change playing the extra midfielder instead of a wide man means we are controlling play more. Davis/Kamara and Jack are completely controlling matches.

A fit Morelos in this system will be dynamite.
 

Woodrow Call

Well-Known Member
#93
One swallow is not a sign of Spring.

Depending what happens over the transfer window will go a long way in deciding if we will miss him (if he goes).
Morelos dug us out a good few results over the course of the season. The last 6 games show that we are adaptable and can play without him.
IMO it is good that the squad can play different systems formations with or without him, it means as a squad they are improving.
His strength against the bottom 6 teams was a great asset, he stood up to the physical side of that. It was against the top 6 sides he took the niggle for whatever reason.
One swallow is the sign of a half decent blow job. For me it's over regards Alfie. No point looking back. We have a formation Let's look for players to suit.
 

coplandrearl36

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
#94
One swallow is the sign of a half decent blow job. For me it's over regards Alfie. No point looking back. We have a formation Let's look for players to suit.
Teams adapt their formation to play us, we must be adaptable to overcome that. We cannot stick to one formation, it cost us in previous seasons being rigid.
That’s either with or without Morelos.
 

Danger Zone

Well-Known Member
#95
Alfie wouldn't have dummied the ball like Defoe did on Sunday.
Probably wouldn’t have given their defence a relatively easy ride for the other 70 minutes either. He’d have been crucified for getting booked for diving too.

Also the person above stating 4 out of the last 6 wins were must wins. HAHA, the league was gone when they went 13 in front, if you want to kid yourself on by pretending that ‘prolonging the inevitable’ was an absolute must then that’s your business though.
 

TeddyBear

Well-Known Member
#96
Probably wouldn’t have given their defence a relatively easy ride for the other 70 minutes either. He’d have been crucified for getting booked for diving too.

Also the person above stating 4 out of the last 6 wins were must wins. HAHA, the league was gone when they went 13 in front, if you want to kid yourself on by pretending that ‘prolonging the inevitable’ was an absolute must then that’s your business though.
I’ve resigned myself to Alfie leaving and just mentioned in passing that he has a selfishness that means he is more difficult to fit into the formation that we have been playing the last few weeks.

Would prefer he stayed and made a real effort to sort out the poor discipline. But, the refs have it in for him and it would be difficult for him to turn things around.
 

Barbarossa

Well-Known Member
#97
Morelos carried us for the majority of the season - a 22 year old. 29 goals...

It took the management team 3 months to work out how to play Defoe, or even have a plan B. Before we were just punting the ball to him and expecting him to hold it up ala Morelos. We also didn’t realize how unfit Davis was, match wise. It literally took us till March to change from the 4-3-3 to a different system that worked.

If we had worked that out earlier we may just have challenged for the title. That is on the management team, not Morelos.

We should give him a fantastic send off if it is to be his last. He’s been a fantastic player for £1m.
 

Dempster

Well-Known Member
#98
It would be utterly insane to risk our prized asset on a plastic pitch in a meaningless game on Sunday against the likes of broadfoot and power.

I'm astonished how many have him in the starting line up.

There's no way he will play apart from possibly a ten minute cameo at the end and a deserved ovation .

Why risk a possible £15-£20 million pound transfer ? Crazy .Alfie will be on the bench .
 

BlooBlood

Well-Known Member
#99
..... You know, the one where many of us thought we were almost a one man team and never looked like winning or scoring without him.

From the minute Fredo got sent off at the piggery, our players have shown that we're definitely not totally reliant on him.

The change in formation and a couple of personnel has seen us become far more solid at the back.

The midfield balance of Davis, Kamara and Jack looks almost perfect and the introduction of Defoe, with his link up play with Arfield in particular, but also Kent , has seen us become a real potent attacking force.

Both Defoe and Arfield went off on Sunday carrying knocks, so it's likely both will be missing on Sunday.

There may well be a couple of others missing too.

Fredo will definitely be up front and it will be interesting to see how he adapts to the new system.

Will he be as intelligent and unselfish as Defoe in the position and who will play the Arfield role?

I'm looking forward to the game and finding out if we've got other players within the squad that can step in, adapt to the formation and let us finish the season with another win.
The wife is one of them and she was watching the game when they won the league. After the game Kris Commons was asked what Rangers need to do to challenge Celtic next year and Commons answer was that we need to learn to win without Morelos as he might be sold. At that point he had missed the last 5 games. We’d won all 5 scoring 12 and conceding 1.

As the OP says, it’s an absolute myth that we can’t win without his goals. We have goals elsewhere in the team. We’ve got Defoe bang in form, Arfield scoring regularly and a defender who has an outstanding scoring record.
 

Uncle Albert

Well-Known Member
I'd say that upturn in form is down to Davis running the show in midfield and he had been there and done it which rules out the pressure off stuff.

Folk would be piling on the criticism if we were dropping points in these games.

It's no surprise the folk calling the games meaningless are the folk who were starting to grumble around early April.
 
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