What would a complete revamp of Scottish football look like?

MrBearightside

MrBearightside

Well-Known Member
Yeah yeah yeah

Its never going to happen, but imagine they hit 'reset' and started again to make it what's best for Scottish football, what changes would be made?

For me:

1) 16 or 18 team SPL, no split (it would be weak teams but they would hopefully get stronger)

2) a Scottish championship of 16 or 18 teams... no other top divisions below.

3) the merging of some clubs

4) full time referees

5) referees to hold match analysis interviews after the game

6) at least 1 Scottish home grown player to be in the starting 11 every game (controversial but you can't deny that it would be good for the nation, plus its good for debate. Also, I can use this point as a negotiation tactic... take it away to get another point through)

7) clear out the SPF / SPFL board

8) make the compliance officer role more transparent and consistent

9) no plastic pitches

10) colt teams entered into the divisions but cannot be promoted to the top division



What else have I missed?
 
MrBearightside said:
Yeah yeah yeah

Its never going to happen, but imagine they hit 'reset' and started again to make it what's best for Scottish football, what changes would be made?

For me:

1) 16 or 18 team SPL, no split (it would be weak teams but they would hopefully get stronger)

2) a Scottish championship of 16 or 18 teams... no other top divisions below.

3) the merging of some clubs

4) full time referees

5) referees to hold match analysis interviews after the game

6) at least 1 Scottish home grown player to be in the starting 11 every game (controversial but you can't deny that it would be good for the nation, plus its good for debate. Also, I can use this point as a negotiation tactic... take it away to get another point through)

7) clear out the SPF / SPFL board

8) make the compliance officer role more transparent and consistent

9) no plastic pitches

10) colt teams entered into the divisions but cannot be promoted to the top division



What else have I missed?
Click to expand...

You've missed the only two things that can restore COMPETITION and save the game.

1 Share the income more evenly including gate receipts, prize money, sponsorship, tv income etc. Of course you need to take account of overheads and have a lengthy transition period.

2 introduce an affordable and sustainable salary scale for all professional footballers playing in Scotland. No more buying up the best opposition players then complaining that the "diddy" teams are shite.

These two initiatives would enable the teams outwith the OF to compete for trophies including the SPFL title. They'd be able to keep hold of their best young players and build successful competitive teams. It would increase competition, make games less predictable and more exciting and would encourage more non OF fans to attend.

Facilities would improve as money could be spent on them including the replacement of plastic pitches.

Our league is one of the least competitive in the world with over 100 titles won by us and them. Other countries are having similar problems but that's not our concern. My feelings are that we may already be too late. Sport isnt worth watching without competition and that's what drove those behind the ESL.

My view is we dont need super leagues with super rich clubs. What we do need is super competitive leagues in each country with the possibility for the "diddy" clubs to grow and succeed.
 
LOL 133 said:
1 Share the income more evenly including gate receipts, prize money, sponsorship, tv income etc. Of course you need to take account of overheads and have a lengthy transition period.

2 introduce an affordable and sustainable salary scale for all professional footballers playing in Scotland. No more buying up the best opposition players then complaining that the "diddy" teams are shite.

These two initiatives would enable the teams outwith the OF to compete for trophies including the SPFL title. They'd be able to keep hold of their best young players and build successful competitive teams. It would increase competition, make games less predictable and more exciting and would encourage more non OF fans to attend.
Click to expand...
That would simply make us less competitive when buying players (no kent, goldson, borna, or hagi, and morelos would have been sold 2 summers ago), less able to keep hold of our most talented younger players, and therefore less competitive in Europe. Works fine in closed shop competitions like NFL but not when we're trying to compete internationally. Especially not when we're in a market as small as Scotland.
 
Will never happen, but an expanded top league where each team only plays the others twice (home and away). It would mean less Old Firm matches and less rangers/celtic fan paydays for the other clubs (hence why it wont happen), but it would make the league much more competitive and make OF matches much more of an event - currently having played them 5 times this season the novelty has worn off a bit!
 
Ziltoid said:
That would simply make us less competitive when buying players (no kent, goldson, borna, or hagi, and morelos would have been sold 2 summers ago), less able to keep hold of our most talented younger players, and therefore less competitive in Europe. Works fine in closed shop competitions like NFL but not when we're trying to compete internationally. Especially not when we're in a market as small as Scotland.
Click to expand...
True, but maybe it's worth looking to improve our domestic game and stop worrying about catching the scraps from UEFA.

It would take a completely different mindset, but I think LOL133 is right.
 
Ziltoid said:
That would simply make us less competitive when buying players (no kent, goldson, borna, or hagi, and morelos would have been sold 2 summers ago), less able to keep hold of our most talented younger players, and therefore less competitive in Europe. Works fine in closed shop competitions like NFL but not when we're trying to compete internationally. Especially not when we're in a market as small as Scotland.
Click to expand...

Do you think I havent considered this?

My view is we have no choice as the current arrangements dont work.

Its not just here where there's a structural problem that cant be fixed by simply shuffling the pack or putting more meat in the pies. This 'money grabbing' problem is affecting countries worldwide.

A number of years back Spanish fans protested by stopping a game. They bombarded the pitch with tennis balls. They were unhappy with Real and Barca taking so much money out of the game. Now we have the spectre of these two trying to grab even more money by ditching the "diddy" clubs like...Rangers?

Its only going to get worse until we stop and take stock and realise that the issue is the disparity in income that kills competition.

ESL, Atlantic League or us joining the EPL is just a response to the lack of competition. None of these will solve the problem IN THE LONG TERM.

Look at the mess they've made of the European Cups and think of the way giving £30 million to one team in Scotland for qualification to CL will further damage competition?
 
MrBearightside said:
Yeah yeah yeah

Its never going to happen, but imagine they hit 'reset' and started again to make it what's best for Scottish football, what changes would be made?

For me:

1) 16 or 18 team SPL, no split (it would be weak teams but they would hopefully get stronger)

2) a Scottish championship of 16 or 18 teams... no other top divisions below.

3) the merging of some clubs

4) full time referees

5) referees to hold match analysis interviews after the game

6) at least 1 Scottish home grown player to be in the starting 11 every game (controversial but you can't deny that it would be good for the nation, plus its good for debate. Also, I can use this point as a negotiation tactic... take it away to get another point through)

7) clear out the SPF / SPFL board

8) make the compliance officer role more transparent and consistent

9) no plastic pitches

10) colt teams entered into the divisions but cannot be promoted to the top division



What else have I missed?
Click to expand...
To be honest I wouldn't have clue how to start. Something needs done obviously.

Full time referees is definitely something that should be done. For me though a home grown Scottish player starting every game is rather meaningless to be honest. I'm sure they do this in the Bulgarian league(and others I'm sure)and one of the teams simply put in the youth player, and then took him off after 10 seconds or something to that effect.

I'm not very helpful mate. Sorry lol.
 
Top flight of 16 teams say

Rangers
them
Aberdeen
Hibs
Hearts
Dundee
Dundee Utd
Kilmarnock
St Johnstone
Motherwell
Livingston
St Mirren
Dunfermline
Raith Rovers
Ross County
Inverness

All on grass pitches. Play each other twice then split. 37 games in total. Surely wouldn’t be any worse than it is now?
 
attack-hands said:
Will never happen, but an expanded top league where each team only plays the others twice (home and away). It would mean less Old Firm matches and less rangers/celtic fan paydays for the other clubs (hence why it wont happen), but it would make the league much more competitive and make OF matches much more of an event - currently having played them 5 times this season the novelty has worn off a bit!
Click to expand...

Financially the ultimate set up to maximise competition and generate the most income is just two divisions as follows.

Div 1 The OF League.

Rangers
Celtic

Play each other every week for 30 weeks

Div 2 (The Diddy league)

All the Diddy teams play each other if they can be bothered.

Sounds like we're going to end up here eventually.
 
Jamiegatami said:
Top flight of 16 teams say

Rangers
them
Aberdeen
Hibs
Hearts
Dundee
Dundee Utd
Kilmarnock
St Johnstone
Motherwell
Livingston
St Mirren
Dunfermline
Raith Rovers
Ross County
Inverness

All on grass pitches. Play each other twice then split. 37 games in total. Surely wouldn’t be any worse than it is now?
Click to expand...
Could Dundee teams merge?

Hearts and hibs merge?

Inverness and Ross county?

Along with others...
 
LOL 133 said:
Do you think I havent considered this?

My view is we have no choice as the current arrangements dont work.

Its not just here where there's a structural problem that cant be fixed by simply shuffling the pack or putting more meat in the pies. This 'money grabbing' problem is affecting countries worldwide.

A number of years back Spanish fans protested by stopping a game. They bombarded the pitch with tennis balls. They were unhappy with Real and Barca taking so much money out of the game. Now we have the spectre of these two trying to grab even more money by ditching the "diddy" clubs like...Rangers?

Its only going to get worse until we stop and take stock and realise that the issue is the disparity in income that kills competition.

ESL, Atlantic League or us joining the EPL is just a response to the lack of competition. None of these will solve the problem IN THE LONG TERM.

Look at the mess they've made of the European Cups and think of the way giving £30 million to one team in Scotland for qualification to CL will further damage competition?
Click to expand...
I do agree that the alloctions of euro money haven't helped, with most of the lower euro leagues becoming a one horse race. But unless rules are changed europe wide I think it would do more harm than good.
 
Should start with a 3 tier structure. With sponsorship and broadcast deals, especially in tier 3 with Rangers / Celtic B then it could make up for the extra 6 teams taking a share of the money. B-Teams not eligible for any share.

Professional Game (50 clubs)

Scottish Premier League
- 14 teams (top 6 (36 games), bottom 8 (40 games) split)
- 2 relegated automatically
- 1 in relegation playoffs with 3/4/5th in Championship

Scottish Championship - 18 teams (34 matches)
- 2 promoted automatically
- 3/4/5 in playoffs with 12th in SPL
- 3 relegated

Scottish National League - 18 teams (34 matches)
- 2 promoted automatically
- 3/4/5/6 in playoffs
- 2 relegated automatically
- 1 in playoff with winnner of Highland 2nd / Lowland 2nd winner

Highland champions promoted automatically to SNL
Lowland champions promoted automatically to SNL

These leagues will need to be flexible with their size and relegation slots to allow movement to regional leagues and space to expand if they get more than 1 team relegated from league above

- B-Teams allowed entry (for an annual fee for first 2 seasons) at tier 3 for top 2 SPL sides but ineligible to be promoted in seasons 1 and 2 to allow other teams to move up the pyramid
- B-Teams allowed entry (for an annual fee for first 2 seasons) at tier 4 for 3rd / 4th / 5th / 6th place in SPL but ineligible to be promoted in seasons 1 and 2

-No teams would be worse off than they are now
-A lot of teams would be in a higher tier / closer to the top tier than they are now
-The pyramid is not blocked by B-Teams moving up in first 2 seasons
-Limit the number of B-Teams allowed at each tier. If there's a situation where a B-Team gain promotion but the tier above is already full then the place is decided via a playoff between the lowest positioned B-Team in the league above and the B-Team who finished in a promotion place
 
Jamiegatami said:
Top flight of 16 teams say

Rangers
them
Aberdeen
Hibs
Hearts
Dundee
Dundee Utd
Kilmarnock
St Johnstone
Motherwell
Livingston
St Mirren
Dunfermline
Raith Rovers
Ross County
Inverness

All on grass pitches. Play each other twice then split. 37 games in total. Surely wouldn’t be any worse than it is now?
Click to expand...
Thistle and Ayr United should be in there.
 
feed_the_pap said:
I think it should go the other way and go down to 10 teams rather than expanding to 14 or 16
Click to expand...
I know where you are coming from

But it means that we will end up playing the same teams 5 or 6 times (boring) and clubs not in the division will not get access to the additional finance old firm fans bring to their team, this money can help them grow and get better
 
LOL 133 said:
Financially the ultimate set up to maximise competition and generate the most income is just two divisions as follows.

Div 1 The OF League.

Rangers
Celtic

Play each other every week for 30 weeks

Div 2 (The Diddy league)

All the Diddy teams play each other if they can be bothered.

Sounds like we're going to end up here eventually.
Click to expand...
Based on this season, the OF league would have been over by Xmas!
 
MrBearightside said:
Yeah yeah yeah

Its never going to happen, but imagine they hit 'reset' and started again to make it what's best for Scottish football, what changes would be made?

For me:

1) 16 or 18 team SPL, no split (it would be weak teams but they would hopefully get stronger)

2) a Scottish championship of 16 or 18 teams... no other top divisions below.

3) the merging of some clubs

4) full time referees

5) referees to hold match analysis interviews after the game

6) at least 1 Scottish home grown player to be in the starting 11 every game (controversial but you can't deny that it would be good for the nation, plus its good for debate. Also, I can use this point as a negotiation tactic... take it away to get another point through)

7) clear out the SPF / SPFL board

8) make the compliance officer role more transparent and consistent

9) no plastic pitches

10) colt teams entered into the divisions but cannot be promoted to the top division



What else have I missed?
Click to expand...
What would a complete revamp of Scottish football look like?.....
Imaginary !!
 
18 team top flight. 34 game season with a winter break during January. No split.

Same promotion/relegation system as exists between the PL and Championship in England. Three teams automatically relegated. Top two from second tier automatically up with the 3rd-6th place sides entering into playoffs for the third and final promotion place.

People may say that mid table clubs would have nothing to play for but this isn’t necessarily the case. If the 16th-18th placed sides go down, then depending on how tight the league is you could still have sides ranked 8th-12th looking over their shoulder.

Also, sides not likely to be in contention for a EL/Conference League spot but unlikely to be troubled by relegation would still nevertheless have local derbies to contest, with a higher likelihood of this in an 18 team league. You’d have the Dundee derby, Edinburgh derby, Ross County v Inverness. I’m aware not all of these fixtures will be of interest to the neutral, but they mean a lot to the fans involved. In normal times the Edinburgh derby is usually a sell out and a feisty affair shown live on TV. This is what Scottish football needs - it can’t be 100% reliant on Old Firm games to sell it as a product.

Standing areas in stadiums where alcohol can be consumed. Seated, non alcohol areas to remain. Fans can then choose what they prefer.
 
1 team in Edinburgh bringing in 40-50,000 supporters would be the real difference maker. I don't expect Hibs or Hearts to merge and I understand it wouldn't be good for their fans in any way but if we're talking hypothetically, a third side capable of competing would be the best thing to happen. As it is now they're too small to ever challenge consistently against us.
 
Kubala said:
1 team in Edinburgh bringing in 40-50,000 supporters would be the real difference maker. I don't expect Hibs or Hearts to merge and I understand it wouldn't be good for their fans in any way but if we're talking hypothetically, a third side capable of competing would be the best thing to happen. As it is now they're too small to ever challenge consistently against us.
Click to expand...
This assumes that the majority of Hibs and Hearts fans would support the merged club. They wouldn’t.

It’s like saying we should merge with Celtic and support a club which has 100,000 season ticket holders so that it could challenge for the CL.

If you could go back in time and see to it that Hibs and Hearts never existed, and that instead there was only one professional club in Edinburgh, then the course of Scottish football history would likely be very different. This club would probably have won about 20 or 30 titles by now.
 
Rt. Hon. Bearman said:
This assumes that the majority of Hibs and Hearts fans would support the merged club. They wouldn’t.

It’s like saying we should merge with Celtic and support a club which has 100,000 season ticket holders so that it could challenge for the CL.

If you could go back in time and see to it that Hibs and Hearts never existed, and that instead there was only one professional club in Edinburgh, then the course of Scottish football history would likely be very different. This club would probably have won about 20 or 30 titles by now.
Click to expand...
Exactly. It's a hypothetical scenario though.
 
Rt. Hon. Bearman said:
This assumes that the majority of Hibs and Hearts fans would support the merged club. They wouldn’t.

It’s like saying we should merge with Celtic and support a club which has 100,000 season ticket holders so that it could challenge for the CL.

If you could go back in time and see to it that Hibs and Hearts never existed, and that instead there was only one professional club in Edinburgh, then the course of Scottish football history would likely be very different. This club would probably have won about 20 or 30 titles by now.
Click to expand...
They would if their finances predicted a collapse of their club
 
MrBearightside said:
Clubs merging would be on a mutual agreed basis, not imposed by the federation.

If hearts and hibs both forecast to struggle and go bust in the next 10 years it could be in their nest interests to merge
Click to expand...
Or in better circumstances they both go out of business.
MrBearightside said:
They would if their finances predicted a collapse of their club
Click to expand...
As above. Their dyed in the wool fans wouldn't support another merged side but their children and theirs would eventually. I think people overstate loyalty being passed down any further than the generation that experienced it. How many people on here had a parent or grandparents who supported Third Lanark, someone else in Scotland or even worse, them?
 
Kubala said:
1 team in Edinburgh bringing in 40-50,000 supporters would be the real difference maker. I don't expect Hibs or Hearts to merge and I understand it wouldn't be good for their fans in any way but if we're talking hypothetically, a third side capable of competing would be the best thing to happen. As it is now they're too small to ever challenge consistently against us.
Click to expand...

What about Meadowbank Thistle? Should be good for 500 fans.
 
A single 18 team top division, playing each other twice a season, home and awayBelow that 4 regional leagues and a playoff system to promote/relegate one team per year.

A complete ban on plastic pitches in the league

Professional referees, clear of any affiliation.

3pm kick offs across the league.

TV rights reverting to individual clubs. A certain percentage paid to the league each year.

One governing body for all aspects of the game (national side, league, grass roots)

Voting rights determined by club attendances. (More punters watching you = more say in how the game is run)

Ban of international weekends. All international games to be played in midweek, in between league games.
 
For Scottish football to thrive,there would have to be some type of salary cap.Otherwise we continue with the same old boring,predictable outcome.
 
9 men and two women per team.

Rename teams name to sound better for worldwide TV audiences - Airdrie Diamondbacks, Dundee Discoverers, Aberdeen Oilers, Inverness Monsters etc.

No promotion or relegation and all clubs academy's merge and a draft is installed.

Helmets and large comedy goalkeeper gloves (especially if one of the women is in goal).
 
Scottish football will never change unless someone with serious money comes in and invests in a club outside Rangers and celtic.

A league where you have 3 or 4 contenders seriously challenging would make a massive difference for me.

Leaving all bias aside, it would be more interesting if there was a strong challenge from Edinburgh and Aberdeen were able to maintain a serious challenge to at least the final quarter of the season.

Of course at the end of it I'd expect Rangers to be victorious.
 
I think playing them less is exactly what the game up here needs. The games against them now are a diluted version of what that fixture used to be plus i think cup game against them would be that more special. Add into playing Hibs and Aberdeen less, going to Easter Road and Pittodrie once a season would definitely add a bit to those fixtures as well, even Tynecastle.

18 - 20 top team league for me.
 
Jamiegatami said:
Top flight of 16 teams say

Rangers
them
Aberdeen
Hibs
Hearts
Dundee
Dundee Utd
Kilmarnock
St Johnstone
Motherwell
Livingston
St Mirren
Dunfermline
Raith Rovers
Ross County
Inverness

All on grass pitches. Play each other twice then split. 37 games in total. Surely wouldn’t be any worse than it is now?
Click to expand...
Assume 37 games equates to 32 and a top six split?
what happens to the other 10 teams , how do they split?
 
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