When do the players take the blame ?

muttley

Well-Known Member
After the losses to Saints and now Killie, Murty predictably is being slaughtered left, right and centre. Now even Dave King is within the cross hairs for character assassination. In both of these recent games we've been a goal up, one of these games a goal up after only 5 minutes at home, and still we bottled it. So when do these players take their share of the blame ? Its a cop-out to go after Murty & King when this lot give up the ghost when they're winning a game.
 
Are you suggesting they haven't on here ?

As much criticism as Murty or bizarrely even Dave King, well, no. These players, for reasons known only to themselves, have retreated into their shell when going a goal in front.
 
Players can be to blame for the odd onfield capitulation, but if it’s happening frequently, that’s the manager’s problem.

Where Murty is concerned however, it’s difficult to blame a guy who is clearly out of his depth but at least had the balls to step up and shoulder the responsibility when it was offered to him.

He should never have been put in this situation.

That lies squarely at the foot of the board.
 
Players can be to blame for the odd onfield capitulation, but if it’s happening frequently, that’s the manager’s problem.

Where Murty is concerned however, it’s difficult to blame a guy who is clearly out of his depth but at least had the balls to step up and shoulder the responsibility when it was offered to him.

He should never have been put in this situation.

That lies squarely at the foot of the board.

If we include the Hibs away game when were also again a goal in front and decided to stick instead of twist and trying for another to kill the opposition off, I'd suggest its more a player problem.
 
when they can't tackle , make simple passes never mind a killer pass , find the net and/or give up cheap goals then they shoulder the blame .

so , right now , they all shoulder the blame .
 
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If the players “gave up the ghost” during the game..... who’s job is it to change it?
(Personnel or tactics)

We were woeful from start to finish yesterday. Killie’s goals were always coming! I’m surprised it took so long. So why didn’t we change tactics? Why did we only use one sub late in the game which would suggest everything was hunky dory when it was the complete opposite.

Who’s the only man that can change our tactics? Who’s the only man that can make a substitution? Why didn’t he?

As for the board (King?) - it’s was simply bonkers to appoint murty (IMO). However the board aren’t getting it tight because they appointed Murty! They are getting it tight because it appears that the had/have absolutely no plan for the managerial issue.
 
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There's some mileage in looking at the players -- like the Manager, they have to shoulder the blame on the pitch.

However ... imo a lot comes down to coaching and drilling the players.
When we see our team being passed off the park by St Johnstone, and unable to match other teams' physical fitness, along with other necessary skills such as taking corners and even hitting the target (never mind the net) ...

I'm not giving those who hide or can't be ar*ed a free pass on their discredit to the Club.
But when we see our players lacking the ability to do that against "diddy" teams, it's not just down to the players themselves.
The "coaching" at our club has every appearance of being effing abysmal.
 
I suggested on here after the Hibs win that we were very lucky and naturally I was sniffed sniffed at by all angles.

It's slightly the same with the players - you can't credit them one week and denigrate them the next.
 
If we include the Hibs away game when were also again a goal in front and decided to stick instead of twist and trying for another to kill the opposition off, I'd suggest its more a player problem.

Really? The players made that decision themselves during the course of the game?
 
Really? The players made that decision themselves during the course of the game?

You reckon Murty told the players to defend a one goal lead at Ibrox against Saints after just 5 minutes ? Sorry, but I'm not having that. Our players seem caught in a no-mans land when we go ahead. They seem scared to win.
 
Your spot on about the players taking blame, however what do you do when there so sadly lacking in basic skills and guts, it’s a sad time.
 
You reckon Murty told the players to defend a one goal lead at Ibrox against Saints after just 5 minutes ? Sorry, but I'm not having that. Our players seem caught in a no-mans land when we go ahead. They seem scared to win.

So the players don't listen to the manager ?

That'll be the manager King just appointed until the end of the season BTW.

Ergo, King is comfortable with this situation. He's saw these previous games and is content to reward Murty for being weak willed, disrespected by the players and unable to alter tactics.

What does that say for King's judgment ?

He's the chairman, right ? He's the one who wants to stand on the Hampden pitch after the semi final and crow to the rest of Scottish football about how he "considers us back now" and take the plaudits, well guess what ? He can take the blame when things go to shit as well.

This is on his watch. The buck stops with him.
 
If the players “gave up the ghost” during the game..... who’s job is it to change it?
(Personnel or tactics)

We were woeful from start to finish yesterday. Killie’s goals were always coming! I’m surprised it took so long. So why didn’t we change tactics? Why did we only use one sub late in the game which would suggest everything was hunky dory when it was the complete opposite.

Who’s the only man that can change our tactics? Who’s the only man that can make a substitution? Why didn’t he?

As for the board (King?) - it’s was simply bonkers to appoint murty (IMO). However the board aren’t getting it tight because they appointed Murty! They are getting it right because it appears that the had/have absolutely no plan for the managerial issue.

Do our players really need a Manager to tell them to go for a second killer goal when a goal up ? Are they really that poor as professionals ?
 
Do our players really need a Manager to tell them to go for a second killer goal when a goal up ? Are they really that poor as professionals ?

Does our manager feel that he doesn’t need to change anything (due his players being professionals) even though things are crumbling in front of him!

If you saw your kid run out towards a busy road, wouldn’t you (as a responsible person/father/leader) shout or do something to prevent that happening? Or say/do fück all coz they “should” know better?
 
Does our manager feel that he doesn’t need to change anything (due his players being professionals) even though things are crumbling in front of him!

If you saw your kid run out towards a busy road, wouldn’t you (as a responsible person/father/leader) shout or do something to prevent that happening? Or say/do fück all coz they “should” know better?

It all depends I suppose how bright this hypothetical kid is. Rangers a goal ahead is not a team crumbling either, especially if that's the scoreline after only 5 minutes at Ibrox.
 
It all depends I suppose how bright this hypothetical kid is. Rangers a goal ahead is not a team crumbling either, especially if that's the scoreline after only 5 minutes at Ibrox.

I was meaning Saturday’s game with my reference to crumbling.

Whether the hypothetical kid is bright or not, surely you’d do something to hopefully prevent something bad happening! Especially when you can see it happening in front of you!

Anyway, if the perfect squad is super professional like your alluding to - why does the likes of Man City, Barca, PSG etc need a manager?
 
Players can be to blame for the odd onfield capitulation, but if it’s happening frequently, that’s the manager’s problem.

Where Murty is concerned however, it’s difficult to blame a guy who is clearly out of his depth but at least had the balls to step up and shoulder the responsibility when it was offered to him.

He should never have been put in this situation.

That lies squarely at the foot of the board.

it is a collective responsibility......
 
There is no one in our team capable of passing the ball well. When we are ahead our players struggle to just keep possession or pass their way out of pressure. Our players always look rushed on the ball as well and can't wait to get rid of it.

This is where we really miss Dorrans, despite him not quite meeting the expectations everyone had of him, his passing ability is incredible.
 
I was meaning Saturday’s game with my reference to crumbling.

Whether the hypothetical kid is bright or not, surely you’d do something to hopefully prevent something bad happening! Especially when you can see it happening in front of you!

Anyway, if the perfect squad is super professional like your alluding to - why does the likes of Man City, Barca, PSG etc need a manager?

PSG or any of the above will rarely crumble if they go ahead and score after only 5 minutes. They don't need a Manager to tell them to go and add to their tally either, or perhaps you think they do ? The players threw away both the Saints and Killie games.
 
After the losses to Saints and now Killie, Murty predictably is being slaughtered left, right and centre. Now even Dave King is within the cross hairs for character assassination. In both of these recent games we've been a goal up, one of these games a goal up after only 5 minutes at home, and still we bottled it. So when do these players take their share of the blame ? Its a cop-out to go after Murty & King when this lot give up the ghost when they're winning a game.
After ever bad result there’s a trickle down process of blame assignation from directors to ballboys.
We need to cut this out.

The blame lies firmly at the top table.

So OP, I say to you...get real.
 
There is no one in our team capable of passing the ball well. When we are ahead our players struggle to just keep possession or pass their way out of pressure. Our players always look rushed on the ball as well and can't wait to get rid of it.

This is where we really miss Dorrans, despite him not quite meeting the expectations everyone had of him, his passing ability is incredible.

Wes, Wilson, Tav, Miller, Holt, Windass and Wallace have all played big parts this year and were the same players guilty of playing too many passes under MW. This same group of players don’t pass the ball anymore.

We’ve went from playing too much football (dominating the ball) under MW to going route one/counter attack and getting the ball from back to front as quickly as possible so it’s not just the players. The instructions and tactics given to them are a massive part of it!
 
After ever bad result there’s a trickle down process of blame assignation from directors to ballboys.
We need to cut this out.

The blame lies firmly at the top table.

So OP, I say to you...get real.

Expecting a Rangers team to go on and defeat mid-table SPFL sides after going a goal up should be a very real situation, mate. That we're failing to do so is demoralising.
 
PSG or any of the above will rarely crumble if they go ahead and score after only 5 minutes. They don't need a Manager to tell them to go and add to their tally either, or perhaps you think they do ? The players threw away both the Saints and Killie games.

So why do PSG or the like have a manager?

Anyway, if things started going pear shaped for PSGs players, I’m sure their manager would do something about it. Unlike our manager at the weekend!

The players never threw the game away against Killie. Despite being 1-0 up, it could be argued that we were never in it. Or atleast we certainly weren’t up 1-0 and cruising. Papering over the cracks has happened a lot at our club recently and John’s goal yesterday obviously papered over the cracks of that first half for Murty because nothing changed at half time.

Do you think Murty said to the players at half time “well done lads, we’re up 1-0.... more of the same of the second half”
 
You reckon Murty told the players to defend a one goal lead at Ibrox against Saints after just 5 minutes ? Sorry, but I'm not having that. Our players seem caught in a no-mans land when we go ahead. They seem scared to win.

So they went one up and decided themselves to defend the lead against instructions otherwise?

That then suggests the manager is too ineffectual to get his own game plan across.
 
So why do PSG or the like have a manager?

Anyway, if things started going pear shaped for PSGs players, I’m sure their manager would do something about it. Unlike our manager at the weekend!

The players never threw the game away against Killie. Despite being 1-0 up, it could be argued that we were never in it. Or atleast we certainly weren’t up 1-0 and cruising. Papering over the cracks has happened a lot at our club recently and John’s goal yesterday obviously papered over the cracks of that first half for Murty because nothing changed at half time.

Do you think Murty said to the players at half time “well done lads, we’re up 1-0.... more of the same of the second half”

A Manager is only the figurehead of a football team. You actually believe that professional footballers need someone on the sidelines to inform them that perhaps they could please do him a favour in scoring more than one goal after going ahead in a game ? No wonder we're losing games if that's the attitude of our players.
 
So they went one up and decided themselves to defend the lead against instructions otherwise?

That then suggests the manager is too ineffectual to get his own game plan across.

I'd suggest we have players who don't listen to anyone and are unprofessional in not killing games off when they should. That this has occurred in two successive games might point in that direction.
 
Players can be to blame for the odd onfield capitulation, but if it’s happening frequently, that’s the manager’s problem.

.

You mean if it is happening frequently it then also becomes a managers problem to try and make changes but ultimately these guys are professional footballers and should by all accounts know what is required in every match even if we don't reach the result we crave they need to adapt to every game individual challenges! By the way, Murty has accepted the challenge and must be judged like those before him though we hope he is a success!
 
Wes, Wilson, Tav, Miller, Holt, Windass and Wallace have all played big parts this year and were the same players guilty of playing too many passes under MW. This same group of players don’t pass the ball anymore.

We’ve went from playing too much football (dominating the ball) under MW to going route one/counter attack and getting the ball from back to front as quickly as possible so it’s not just the players. The instructions and tactics given to them are a massive part of it!

It's scary how bad we are at passing the ball now. We went from being a team who could keep the ball for fun to being unable to string 3 passes together within about 3 weeks of Pedro taking over from MW.

It's 100% a coaching and a confidence thing.

We punt aimless long balls up to Morelos who's about 5ft9 and Windass who shrinks when he jumps.
 
You mean if it is happening frequently it then also becomes a managers problem to try and make changes but ultimately these guys are professional footballers and should by all accounts know what is required in every match even if we don't reach the result we crave they need to adapt to every game individual challenges! By the way, Murty has accepted the challenge and must be judged like those before him though we hope he is a success!

We went ahead at Hibs and got away with it. We were found out, however, in these other last two games after leading in both matches. Do full time professional Rangers players really need someone on the touchline shouting " Gonny no dae that ? " :D
 
The players are as complicit as GM as well as the board.

Collectively they are failing the support who are the paying customers

None of them are blameless and all should hang their heads in shame

They need to get their act together and fast
 
So unless I have a replacement lined up I have to think he’s great like you?
Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuhr

No, I'm saying if you want Dave King removed then form your own cartel or group of wealthy individuals to replace him if he's that terrible.
 
No, I'm saying if you want Dave King removed then form your own cartel or group of wealthy individuals to replace him if he's that terrible.
So I have to form a consortium to buy him out before I can criticise him?
Double duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuhr
 
No, I said if you think he's that terrible then replace him and stop whining.

The sad reality is that if for the third time in a row we go a goal up and eventually lose, folk will blame Murty, King, Pedro, anybody apart from the players.
 
Expecting a Rangers team to go on and defeat mid-table SPFL sides after going a goal up should be a very real situation, mate. That we're failing to do so is demoralising.
Of course, but any group of players, at any team in the world will basically look to get as easy a time as possible.
There’s a reason managers are the most important person at any club. It’s been that way since time immemorial, and wil be that way longer than any of us will be here.

I actually cannot believe anyone doesn’t get this. It’s the simplest of ideas to grasp.
 
I’m going to assume you’re at the windup and wish you a merry Xmas.
Gotta be....it’s Noel Edmonds, tomorrow he will unveil Pep as our new manager and a £500million kitty to sign a team full of Tim-slayers! God bless us all! We are the people!
 
This might just be the out-and-out stupidist statement I have ever read on FF, and there have been plenty to pick from over the years.

Give it a rest, mate. Most folk on here couldn't name the Manager of the 1970 Brazil side, probably the greatest football team ever, such was his significance. They'll know the players, though. Why is that ?
 
Give it a rest, mate. Most folk on here couldn't name the Manager of the 1970 Brazil side, probably the greatest football team ever, such was his significance. They'll know the players, though. Why is that ?
International football a different game to club football mate, managers far less important at that level.
At club level they are the person the whole thing is built around. Everything flows from them.
Also the reason suggestions for Micheal O’Neil and Chris Coleman to takeover at is is bullshit.
Keep thinking about it- you’ll get there eventually :)
 
International football a different game to club football mate, managers far less important at that level.
At club level they are the person the whole thing is built around. Everything flows from them.
Also the reason suggestions for Micheal O’Neil and Chris Coleman to takeover at is is bullshit.
Keep thinking about it- you’ll get there eventually :)

Yeah, mate, winning the World Cup is less important for a Manager than winning the Scottish League Cup. :D Put the Christmas drink down.
 
We went ahead at Hibs and got away with it. We were found out, however, in these other last two games after leading in both matches. Do full time professional Rangers players really need someone on the touchline shouting " Gonny no dae that ? " :D
I am no Dave King fan, however, I fully agree that these are professional football players that shouldn't always need a manager to explain the basics of how to defend and attack against the bottom teams in our league, they should be able to beat some of these teams with nobody in the dugout!
 
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