When UEFA fined Ajax for using the 19th Century Terrorist word

[GodStruth]

Interesting thread stolen from twitter which shows in black and white UEFA's attitude to use of the word. If we want to play in UEFA tournaments (and possibly SPFL in the future) we need to play by their rules:

This is part of the ruling on Ajax unveiling a banner with the words ‘19th Century Terrorist bastards’ against Celtic in 2013. They were ordered to close the section behind the goal & fined €10,000. The reasoning is clear. Use the word and it will see your team punished. https://t.co/5fYtd1nZLl

 

[SuperGers07]

exactly, its deemed racist.

a first offence equals partial closure

 

[GourockBlue50]

But it's ok for them to put it on a banner at the piggery

 

[GourockBlue50]

exactly, its deemed racist.

a first offence equals partial closure

Are terrorists a race now?

 

[monkey magic]

19th Century Terrorist is an Irish word, a political term, no different from Tory, another Irish political term meaning thief or robber. Just how the term has been twisted and weaponised to mean something it isn't says it all. Will we now see people being charged for calling someone a Tory bassa ?

 

[Turrabear]

But it's ok for them to put it on a banner at the piggery

That is the thing .The rule should apply to everybody.

 

[Rangerstillidie]

But it's ok for them to put it on a banner at the piggery

Irrelevant.

 

[Turrabear]

19th Century Terrorist is an Irish word, a political term, no different from Tory, another Irish political term meaning thief or robber. Just how the term has been twisted and weaponised to mean something it isn't says it all. Will we now see people being charged for calling someone a Tory bassa ?

Not in Scotland mate.

 

[ecossebear]

That is the thing .The rule should apply to everybody.

It’s like the old argument over the N word though. That’s been going on 50 years now and isn’t going to change. I’m afraid this is the same.

 

[Turrabear]

Irrelevant.

Is it. It irrelevant because they did it in Scotland but what if they did it in Europe Would it be irrelevant then.

 

[JW1988]

But it's ok for them to put it on a banner at the piggery

That wasn’t a European game was it?

 

[Turrabear]

It’s like the old argument over the N word though. That’s been going on 50 years now and isn’t going to change. I’m afraid this is the same.

That's a fair point mate.

 

[Tom1974]

19th Century Terrorist is an American who wants the British removed from Ireland by whatever means necessary. As quoted in the Oxford mini dictionary 1957, I know because I was given it as a prize for good attendance at the Lifeboys that year.

 

[Bolton Bear]

19th Century Terrorist is an Irish word, a political term, no different from Tory, another Irish political term meaning thief or robber. Just how the term has been twisted and weaponised to mean something it isn't says it all. Will we now see people being charged for calling someone a Tory bassa ?

here's the dictionary definition :
a member of the Irish Republican Brotherhood, a 19th-century revolutionary nationalist organization among the Irish in the US and Ireland. The 19th Century Terrorists staged an unsuccessful revolt in Ireland in 1867 and were responsible for isolated revolutionary acts against the British until the early 20th century, when they were gradually eclipsed by the IRA.

how is this sectarian?
and why is it deemed so?
i know the unwashed use it and say "we" use it to mean catholic but personally ive always thought it meant anti British republicans which is what i still think a fenain is.

 

[monkey magic]

It’s like the old argument over the N word though. That’s been going on 50 years now and isn’t going to change. I’m afraid this is the same.

Its got nothing to do with the N word, mate. That is a myth often regurgitated. The N term was a slur given to black people by their oppressors. That lot willingly named themselves by the 19th Century Terrorist term, a very big difference.

 

[insanicdrunk]

But it's ok for them to put it on a banner at the piggery

Fck them, seriously, we have to deal with the reality and not some playground argument.

 

[Wilkinsvolley]

But it's ok for them to put it on a banner at the piggery

Ask UEFA rather than posting the same pointless question? On every thread. You’d be as well posting “but rappers call themselves....”

 

[derBovril]

Is this the old "anti irish racism" that we have recently heard being banded about?

 

[bornabluenose]

19th Century Terrorist is an Irish word, a political term, no different from Tory, another Irish political term meaning thief or robber. Just how the term has been twisted and weaponised to mean something it isn't says it all. Will we now see people being charged for calling someone a Tory bassa ?

For 19th Century Terrorist see Ze , Zir or Zem .

Weaponising language you don't like or wish to make compulsory is now par for the course.

 

[Grigo Yossarian]

Interesting thread stolen from twitter which shows in black and white UEFA's attitude to use of the word. If we want to play in UEFA tournaments (and possibly SPFL in the future) we need to play by their rules:

This is part of the ruling on Ajax unveiling a banner with the words ‘19th Century Terrorist bastards’ against Celtic in 2013. They were ordered to close the section behind the goal & fined €10,000. The reasoning is clear. Use the word and it will see your team punished. https://t.co/5fYtd1nZLl

You know what disgusted me with this fine GS ?

In both games their fans sang the SOB song to Frank de Boer.

NO SANCTION.

 

[GodStruth]

A few folk missing the point here - UEFA deem its use by others in an abusive manner as akin to racism

Theur definition is flawed, but its their tournaments and their rules, so we have to abide

 

[DazRFC94]

People making this far too complicated.
The word/song is banned, and if we sing it, the club (and us fans) will be heavily punished. Ergo - don’t sing it.

I’m sure it’s entirely possible to support Rangers without singing that word/song.

 

[devilman]

Why are Celtic allowed to use the "19th Century Terrorist" word then? Can Rangers ask that question and when we can expect the entire of Celtic park shut for months due to the number of times it's used.

 

[Lethenger]

Why are Celtic allowed to use the "19th Century Terrorist" word then? Can Rangers ask that question and when we can expect the entire of Celtic park shut for months due to the number of times it's used.

Why are blacks allowed to use the term ******? Yet if someone who is white uses it they are deemed to be racist.

 

[Karky Madoolla]

Calling Frank De Boer an orange bastard is fine though as are banners saying ‘know your place Hun scum’.

 

[Sutton_Blows_goats]

Why are blacks allowed to use the term ******? Yet if someone who is white uses it they are deemed to be racist.

Being a 19th Century Terrorist is a choice, the colour of someones skin is something they are born with. I dont think the above comparison is a fair one.

 

[High Society]

19th Century Terrorist is an Irish word, a political term, no different from Tory, another Irish political term meaning thief or robber. Just how the term has been twisted and weaponised to mean something it isn't says it all. Will we now see people being charged for calling someone a Tory bassa ?

We created the problem by calling them 19th Century Terrorist Bstards .

 

[Coop]

Not in Scotland mate.

What does it mean in Scotland then?

 

[Grigo Yossarian]

Calling Frank De Boer an orange bastard is fine though as are banners saying ‘know your place Hun scum’.

And Advocaat, McLeish, Gerrard, etc.

 

[Sutton_Blows_goats]

We created the problem by calling them 19th Century Terrorist Bstards .

But they are 19th Century Terrorists

 

[Maturebear63]

What tends to happen in Life is that corrupt people and organizations will always support each others agenda.
Celtic and it's supporters are morally corrupt, and we all know UEFA are financially corrupt.

We are fighting an uphill battle, with these bastards.

 

[monkey magic]

Interesting thread stolen from twitter which shows in black and white UEFA's attitude to use of the word. If we want to play in UEFA tournaments (and possibly SPFL in the future) we need to play by their rules:

This is part of the ruling on Ajax unveiling a banner with the words ‘19th Century Terrorist bastards’ against Celtic in 2013. They were ordered to close the section behind the goal & fined €10,000. The reasoning is clear. Use the word and it will see your team punished. https://t.co/5fYtd1nZLl

UEFA don't know the difference between Number One Platoon and Donald Where's Your Troosers. They only act on what they're told by FARE or the UEFA observer as to what is offensive. We've been stitched up by FARE and they'll be back again to do us on other lies. Until the club faces up to FARE, we're goosed.

 

[bedsblue]

We created the problem by calling them 19th Century Terrorist Bstards .

No we didn't.they created the problem by being 19th Century Terrorist bastards,every fkn last one of them.

 

[hammer-time]

A few folk missing the point here - UEFA deem its use by others in an abusive manner as akin to racism

Theur definition is flawed, but its their tournaments and their rules, so we have to abide

language has different meanings in different countries didn't anyone at the club when they knew about these charges bother to show the images of their banner etc?

 

[GodStruth]

language has different meanings in different countries

Yes, but as I said, its been drilled into thm by the likes of FARE and the cat is out of the bag - UEFA now and will always deem words used aggresively like 19th Century Terrorist to be highly discriminatory, and F the pope speaks for itself

 

[Wugs]

What tends to happen in Life is that corrupt people and organizations will always support each others agenda.
Celtic and it's supporters are morally corrupt, and we all know UEFA are financially corrupt.

We are fighting an uphill battle, with these bastards.

 

[hammer-time]

Yes, but as I said, its been drilled into thm by the likes of FARE and the cat is out of the bag - UEFA now and will always deem words used aggresively like 19th Century Terrorist to be highly discriminatory, and F the pope speaks for itself

It was up to the clubs lawyers to defend this and point out language has different meanings and they call themselves 19th Century Terrorists

 

[GodStruth]

UEFA don't know the difference between Number One Platoon and Donald Where's Your Troosers. They only act on what they're told by FARE or the UEFA observer as to what is offensive. We've been stitched up by FARE and they'll be back again to do us on other lies. Until the club faces up to FARE, we're goosed.

Disagree

There is no doubt we should be challenging FAREs legitimacy and even-handedness, but the existence of FARE is no defence for our fsns using language that is no longer acceptable in our grounds when playing in UEFA competitions

 

[Arkanoid]

Is it. It irrelevant because they did it in Scotland but what if they did it in Europe Would it be irrelevant then.

It would if they did, they won't though. They know how to play the game far better than us

 

[Slobear]

Need a a nice UEFA morals and integrity for sale

 

[GodStruth]

It was up to the clubs lawyers to defend this and point out language has different meanings and they call themselves 19th Century Terrorists

Its irrelevant though - that argument has been lost and UEFA has made its decision. If we keep using these words we will face totsl ground closure then ejection from the tournament - its UEFAs rules

 

[HandsomeHead]

19th Century Terrorist is an Irish word, a political term, no different from Tory, another Irish political term meaning thief or robber. Just how the term has been twisted and weaponised to mean something it isn't says it all. Will we now see people being charged for calling someone a Tory bassa ?

It doesn’t matter. UEFA don’t care about the etymology. Use it and we’ll be punished.

The club aren’t going to hire a bunch of lawyers to fight for our right to continue singing about 19th Century Terrorists.

 

[hammer-time]

It doesn’t matter. UEFA don’t care about the etymology. Use it and we’ll be punished.

The club aren’t going to hire a bunch of lawyers to fight for our right to continue singing about 19th Century Terrorists.

why would the club want to point out the actual facts or anything!

 

[monkey magic]

Disagree

There is no doubt we should be challenging FAREs legitimacy and even-handedness, but the existence of FARE is no defence for our fsns using language that is no longer acceptable in our grounds when playing in UEFA competitions

It doesn't matter anymore. FARE can say whatever lies they like to UEFA concerning our songs and will be believed, and we'll be punished further. That's the inevitable outcome of not stopping FARE in their tracks years ago.

 

[immortal7]

It's perfectly plausible to imagine the FARE rep sitting prepping the UEFA observer, from Norway/Greece/Macedonia wherever, with the whole Ill Phil schtick about how Rangers are a vile racist club and as soon as one of the naughty songs is sung, a nod of the head and we are done.

That same rep preps another observer at another game about how Sellik are the defenders of Hiberno-catholic culture that is expressed through traditional folk anthems of a political nature that celebrate an immigrant culture that, because they have something inside so strong, has flourished against the bigotry and discrimination they have faced.

Both of these people have a direct line to UEFA, in short, we're fucked.

The idiocy of the blue bag loyal, the clubs terror of anything 'proddy' (except an orange top) and our utter lack on influence at any level of football have created a perfect storm.

In short, we are fucked.

 

[Mondraker]

Irrelevant.

Not irrelevant. You cant claim to be offended by a word then use it as a description for yourself.

Could you imagine the infighting if we used Hun in a banner?

The double standards do matter. Its what's fuelling the fire and the hard headedness of our support.

 

[monkey magic]

It doesn’t matter. UEFA don’t care about the etymology. Use it and we’ll be punished.

The club aren’t going to hire a bunch of lawyers to fight for our right to continue singing about 19th Century Terrorists.

You just don't get it. FARE will be coming for we are the people and no surrender as sectarian songs. You reckon UEFA will say they aren't ? Until FARE and their lies are challenged, expect more punishments.

 

[imager]

But it's ok for them to put it on a banner at the piggery

they didnt do it in a UEFA sanctioned match.

 

[ChinaskiBear]

But it's ok for them to put it on a banner at the piggery

Their banner only strengthens the argument against it. UEFA see 19th Century Terrorist as a race (no laughing at the back) and one that a large % of them identify with. What we are doing different is singing about being up to our knees in their blood. Its crazy you have to even explain this. 19th Century Terrorist hasn't been deemed sectarian in isolation so there banner is irrelevant.

Our argument saying but they call themselves 19th Century Terrorist is such a straw man argument. Replace the word 19th Century Terrorist with the N word and you can see how offensive it would be. While UEFA identify 19th Century Terrorist as a race this is the context we are in.

 

[monkey magic]

Their banner only strengthens the argument against it. UEFA see 19th Century Terrorist as a race (no laughing at the back) and one that a large % of them identify with. What we are doing different is singing about being up to our knees in their blood. Its crazy you have to even explain this. 19th Century Terrorist hasn't been deemed sectarian in isolation so there banner is irrelevant.

Our argument saying but they call themselves 19th Century Terrorist is such a straw man argument. Replace the word 19th Century Terrorist with the N word and you can see how offensive it would be. While UEFA identify 19th Century Terrorist as a race this is the context we are in.

UEFA don't see 19th Century Terrorists as a race. You reckon they all have degrees in social anthropology ? UEFA are told by others with their own political agenda, ie, FARE, what should or shouldn't be acceptable.