Where the Germans succeed and we fail as a club

ozo

ozo

Well-Known Member
Frankfurt normally wear all black but were in their 3rd kit of white - as were virtually all their fans.

It doesn't sound like much but that to me is an illustration of how organised they were and pulling together as one with great links and communication between their fans and the club. Contrast that to us where we werent told what strip we would be wearing up until very late - multiple threads on here wondering what it would be. The club could have clarified much earlier and worked together with the fans but we were an afterthought. What kit the team is wearing and what the fans are wearing is not important in itself but it is reflected in so many areas too like the organising of official transport to the game rather than having to scramble all ways to get there (at great expense) and holding a beamback at their home stadium for those who couldn't travel. Frankfurt put their fans first and foremost and we didn't.

Reading on reddit that the Germans also liased with the authorities in advance to allow in flags and banners for their display pre match. Was that option even explored by our club? They also prioritised virtually all their ticket allocation to their ultra groups rather than giving half the allocation to corporate etc. I'm just guessing on this bit but it also wouldn't surprise me if they also made sure to provide water too because thats what they do - they put their fans interests and welfare first and put resources towards it and staff are there to work and aid this and help organise. On the other hand we may have had every member of staff at the game - but most were on a jolly rather than looking after the ones that pay their wages.
 
The professionalism at every level in the club is improving year on year but it hasn't historically (and obviously more recently) been great. I think people think undoing decades worth of total mismanagement is easier than it is, and the fact we're in a European final at this stage of our wider recovery has been a remarkable achievement.
 
For every match in Germany Support get told what they can and can't take in, you get a factsheet published for every away support as well. SLO's are big in Germany, many are ex Ultras I find who form a bridge between fans and the authorities - different ball game to Britain.

In hindsight everyone being in orange would have been better last night but that would have taken a lot of work and cost - would have needed to get 15,000 t shirts sorted for example but this is what happens in Germany, ponchos or t shirts are handed out just before kick off.
 
might not sound like much, but you're spot on. At every level, it seems like they geared up for European final.

Our management just scrambled around to set up a jolly for as many folk as they could. Every other item of organisation was pretty much non-existent. As you say, fans a complete afterthought.

Result was shite atmosphere from our end, and a huge commercial opportunity missed at home, with regards to Ibrox being filled at £20/£30 a head, and strip sales.

Papac says the professionalism at every level of the club is improving year on year. On the non-footballing side, I just don't see it.
 
ozo said:
Frankfurt normally wear all black but were in their 3rd kit of white - as were virtually all their fans.

It doesn't sound like much but that to me is an illustration of how organised they were and pulling together as one with great links and communication between their fans and the club. Contrast that to us where we werent told what strip we would be wearing up until very late - multiple threads on here wondering what it would be. The club could have clarified much earlier and worked together with the fans but we were an afterthought. What kit the team is wearing and what the fans are wearing is not important in itself but it is reflected in so many areas too like the organising of official transport to the game rather than having to scramble all ways to get there (at great expense) and holding a beamback at their home stadium for those who couldn't travel. Frankfurt put their fans first and foremost and we didn't.

Reading on reddit that the Germans also liased with the authorities in advance to allow in flags and banners for their display pre match. Was that option even explored by our club? They also prioritised virtually all their ticket allocation to their ultra groups rather than giving half the allocation to corporate etc. I'm just guessing on this bit but it also wouldn't surprise me if they also made sure to provide water too because thats what they do - they put their fans interests and welfare first and put resources towards it and staff are there to work and aid this and help organise. On the other hand we may have had every member of staff at the game - but most were on a jolly rather than looking after the ones that pay their wages.
Click to expand...


You might find this interesting:

www.sdeurope.eu

SLO of the Month: Marc Francis of Eintracht Frankfurt

In honour of the upcoming 10 year anniversary of the development of the Supporter Liaison Officer (SLO) role, SD Europe is excited to announce a new monthly feature of various SLOs across Europe. In what is an emotional, and exciting interview, we had the privilege to ask Eintracht Frankfurt...
www.sdeurope.eu www.sdeurope.eu
 
Frankfurt asked their fans to wear white.

Union Bears (not Rangers) asked Rangers fans to wear blue.

Rangers decided to bring out an orange top the week before the final creating a stampede and desire for fans to buy and wear it.

I'm sure Frankfurts approach wasn't without flaw but Rangers approach wasn't coherent or joined up at all.
 
This is a good post. To take a step further we all talk about this concept of culture in big organisations and how all various stakeholders are treated. The present leadership have improved but there’s still a long way to go. It starts with Ross Wilson - whom I rate highly but he needs to learn quick about various events highlighted over the past week and the 6 months prior. A difficult job right enough.
 
On heart & hand daily update yesterday , it said our overall record vs German sides was , 18 wins , 18 defeats , 15 draws , that’s exceptional for a small nation against pretty much a football super power.

If Kent or Davis score at the end or Wright or Goldson stop that cross , no one gives a shit about coordinating t shirts.

Not a pop at any of our players , they’ve been magnificent in Europe this season & pretty much for 4 seasons
 
stefanovitch said:
Frankfurt asked their fans to wear white.

Union Bears (not Rangers) asked Rangers fans to wear blue.

Rangers decided to bring out an orange top the week before the final creating a stampede and desire for fans to buy and wear it.

I'm sure Frankfurts approach wasn't without flaw but Rangers approach wasn't coherent or joined up at all.
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Did Frankfurt not hand out t shirts to everyone (meaning their Ultra Group)? Haven't heard that but just what I would expect to have happened, seen it happen at quite a few matches I have been to in Germany.
 
Boabmeister said:
On heart & hand daily update yesterday , it said our overall record vs German sides was , 18 wins , 18 defeats , 15 draws , that’s exceptional for a small nation against pretty much a football super power.

If Kent or Davis score at the end or Wright or Goldson stop that cross , no one gives a shit about coordinating t shirts.

Not a pop at any of our players , they’ve been magnificent in Europe this season & pretty much for 4 seasons
Click to expand...
Great post
 
I don’t like the idea of being told what to wear. We are not fukin cheerleaders shaking glitter balls.

I thought the Frankfurt fans looked ridiculous all wearing white caps. Totally cringing.

I just wished our fans had been more up for it and had sang more. But I wasn’t there I can’t criticise them , I’m only going by the tv. I don’t think it would have made one jot of a difference to the result. I also can’t imagine frankfurts inane repetitive chanting would lift their players.
 
Wazza said:
For every match in Germany Support get told what they can and can't take in, you get a factsheet published for every away support as well. SLO's are big in Germany, many are ex Ultras I find who form a bridge between fans and the authorities - different ball game to Britain.

In hindsight everyone being in orange would have been better last night but that would have taken a lot of work and cost - would have needed to get 15,000 t shirts sorted for example but this is what happens in Germany, ponchos or t shirts are handed out just before kick off.
Click to expand...

German football is just a completely different beast. There are plenty of reasons for that. There's the origins of football in Germany and the fact that it wasn't professional for quite a long time. Then there's the 50% +1 ownership model where fans are seen as being a vital part of the club. The SLO model in Germany too - if I remember correctly then German clubs have to have a SLO and the role is taken exceptionally seriously. They're not perfect by any stretch - theres still a serious hooligan element in German football as you'll know well having gone to more games over there than I have. The police presence at German football games is vastly different to the police at games over here. Ultimately there's far more to like than to dislike. Even little things like the local transport to and from matches on tram or s-bahn routes being included with the match ticket. Stewarding at tram/train stops after the games are usually chaotic and make Ibrox subway look almost orderly, but its the whole thing of putting fans at the centre of everything that's ultimately really impressive. Not just football either. I've experienced it with Die Adler Mannheim in the German DEL hockey league.

Lots for clubs outside of Germany to learn.
 
ozo said:
Frankfurt normally wear all black but were in their 3rd kit of white - as were virtually all their fans.

It doesn't sound like much but that to me is an illustration of how organised they were and pulling together as one with great links and communication between their fans and the club. Contrast that to us where we werent told what strip we would be wearing up until very late - multiple threads on here wondering what it would be. The club could have clarified much earlier and worked together with the fans but we were an afterthought. What kit the team is wearing and what the fans are wearing is not important in itself but it is reflected in so many areas too like the organising of official transport to the game rather than having to scramble all ways to get there (at great expense) and holding a beamback at their home stadium for those who couldn't travel. Frankfurt put their fans first and foremost and we didn't.

Reading on reddit that the Germans also liased with the authorities in advance to allow in flags and banners for their display pre match. Was that option even explored by our club? They also prioritised virtually all their ticket allocation to their ultra groups rather than giving half the allocation to corporate etc. I'm just guessing on this bit but it also wouldn't surprise me if they also made sure to provide water too because thats what they do - they put their fans interests and welfare first and put resources towards it and staff are there to work and aid this and help organise. On the other hand we may have had every member of staff at the game - but most were on a jolly rather than looking after the ones that pay their wages.
Click to expand...
We knew what kit we wearing the exact same time as Frankurt.
It was publicly announced and all over the media.
If you look at frankfurt games, the fans are always in white.
 
ozo said:
Frankfurt normally wear all black but were in their 3rd kit of white - as were virtually all their fans.

It doesn't sound like much but that to me is an illustration of how organised they were and pulling together as one with great links and communication between their fans and the club. Contrast that to us where we werent told what strip we would be wearing up until very late - multiple threads on here wondering what it would be. The club could have clarified much earlier and worked together with the fans but we were an afterthought. What kit the team is wearing and what the fans are wearing is not important in itself but it is reflected in so many areas too like the organising of official transport to the game rather than having to scramble all ways to get there (at great expense) and holding a beamback at their home stadium for those who couldn't travel. Frankfurt put their fans first and foremost and we didn't.

Reading on reddit that the Germans also liased with the authorities in advance to allow in flags and banners for their display pre match. Was that option even explored by our club? They also prioritised virtually all their ticket allocation to their ultra groups rather than giving half the allocation to corporate etc. I'm just guessing on this bit but it also wouldn't surprise me if they also made sure to provide water too because thats what they do - they put their fans interests and welfare first and put resources towards it and staff are there to work and aid this and help organise. On the other hand we may have had every member of staff at the game - but most were on a jolly rather than looking after the ones that pay their wages.
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If, for example the Union Bears got a block ticket allocation for Sevilla, this place would have crashed with the traffic of condemnation. That's a definite. Whether the Frankfurt fans did likewise, I have no idea. Continental ultras groups tend to carry far more weight than in the UK.
Italy, for instance. Clubs consult them on most things.
 
iaatpies said:
German football is just a completely different beast. There are plenty of reasons for that. There's the origins of football in Germany and the fact that it wasn't professional for quite a long time. Then there's the 50% +1 ownership model where fans are seen as being a vital part of the club. The SLO model in Germany too - if I remember correctly then German clubs have to have a SLO and the role is taken exceptionally seriously. They're not perfect by any stretch - theres still a serious hooligan element in German football as you'll know well having gone to more games over there than I have. The police presence at German football games is vastly different to the police at games over here. Ultimately there's far more to like than to dislike. Even little things like the local transport to and from matches on tram or s-bahn routes being included with the match ticket. Stewarding at tram/train stops after the games are usually chaotic and make Ibrox subway look almost orderly, but its the whole thing of putting fans at the centre of everything that's ultimately really impressive. Not just football either. I've experienced it with Die Adler Mannheim in the German DEL hockey league.

Lots for clubs outside of Germany to learn.
Click to expand...
Sweden is very big on SLO's as well. Different world all in all.
 
There generally a disconnect bergen out board and our fans just now is being there all year we are starting to be treated like Murray treated us and there is no real fan engagement on a serious level.

The euro run has masked it slightly but it won't go away ........ and will gradually get worse.

The board have done a lot for the club and its appreciated but they were supported by the fans to be put place by the fans
 
iaatpies said:
German football is just a completely different beast. There are plenty of reasons for that. There's the origins of football in Germany and the fact that it wasn't professional for quite a long time. Then there's the 50% +1 ownership model where fans are seen as being a vital part of the club. The SLO model in Germany too - if I remember correctly then German clubs have to have a SLO and the role is taken exceptionally seriously. They're not perfect by any stretch - theres still a serious hooligan element in German football as you'll know well having gone to more games over there than I have. The police presence at German football games is vastly different to the police at games over here. Ultimately there's far more to like than to dislike. Even little things like the local transport to and from matches on tram or s-bahn routes being included with the match ticket. Stewarding at tram/train stops after the games are usually chaotic and make Ibrox subway look almost orderly, but its the whole thing of putting fans at the centre of everything that's ultimately really impressive. Not just football either. I've experienced it with Die Adler Mannheim in the German DEL hockey league.

Lots for clubs outside of Germany to learn.
Click to expand...
The big difference I noticed was when I saw images of their home stadium.

Fully packed with over 55k fans watching the game on big screens, kiosks open for food and drinks, merchandise being sold,...
Outside there were several thousand more watching it on the small football pitch next to it.

Wonder if their staff all were in Seville

The connection the clubs over there have with their fans is something to be envious of.
 
Jelle1880 said:
The big difference I noticed was when I saw images of their home stadium.

Fully packed with over 55k fans watching the game on big screens, kiosks open for food and drinks, merchandise being sold,...
Outside there were several thousand more watching it on the small football pitch next to it.

Wonder if their staff all were in Seville

The connection the clubs over there have with their fans is something to be envious of.
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Be second nature putting that on for them won't it, Stadium is used for all kinds. It's a great Stadium as well, one of best in Germany for me.
 
Our support is at its best when it isn't coordinated imo

We tend to go on what happens on the pitch and not the preplanned singing some European supporters do. That sometimes just becomes a background noise.
 
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Wazza said:
Be second nature putting that on for them won't it, Stadium is used for all kinds. It's a great Stadium as well, one of best in Germany for me.
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Agreed, I was there earlier this year, amazing stadium.

But my main point was actually to show Rangers that this bullshit excuse of 'Oh our staff are in Spain so sorry, can't do it' is just that: An excuse. ;)

If they opened Ibrox like Frankfurt did it would have meant people could watch the game in their usual environment to watch games, together with other fans. And it would have undoubtedly made some money for the club too.

It'd be like a normal match day.
Instead many fans felt left behind by the club, at least that's how I understood the sentiment when it was clear that no beam back was happening.
 
ozo said:
Frankfurt normally wear all black but were in their 3rd kit of white - as were virtually all their fans.

It doesn't sound like much but that to me is an illustration of how organised they were and pulling together as one with great links and communication between their fans and the club. Contrast that to us where we werent told what strip we would be wearing up until very late - multiple threads on here wondering what it would be. The club could have clarified much earlier and worked together with the fans but we were an afterthought. What kit the team is wearing and what the fans are wearing is not important in itself but it is reflected in so many areas too like the organising of official transport to the game rather than having to scramble all ways to get there (at great expense) and holding a beamback at their home stadium for those who couldn't travel. Frankfurt put their fans first and foremost and we didn't.

Reading on reddit that the Germans also liased with the authorities in advance to allow in flags and banners for their display pre match. Was that option even explored by our club? They also prioritised virtually all their ticket allocation to their ultra groups rather than giving half the allocation to corporate etc. I'm just guessing on this bit but it also wouldn't surprise me if they also made sure to provide water too because thats what they do - they put their fans interests and welfare first and put resources towards it and staff are there to work and aid this and help organise. On the other hand we may have had every member of staff at the game - but most were on a jolly rather than looking after the ones that pay their wages.
Click to expand...
I agree with most of what you say. It's obvious why they picked their white top and all fans were in white. That's what you wear in hot temperatures. Why did our staff not give out water inside the stadium when fans arrived at the ground. Our organisation was dreadful and we didn’t learn anything from Manchester. Where were the shuttle buses to ferry the fans to the stadium thus should have been arranged. Fans were inside the ground early and no kiosks were open and when they did open ran out of water this is scandalous.
 
ozo said:
Frankfurt normally wear all black but were in their 3rd kit of white - as were virtually all their fans.

It doesn't sound like much but that to me is an illustration of how organised they were and pulling together as one with great links and communication between their fans and the club. Contrast that to us where we werent told what strip we would be wearing up until very late - multiple threads on here wondering what it would be. The club could have clarified much earlier and worked together with the fans but we were an afterthought. What kit the team is wearing and what the fans are wearing is not important in itself but it is reflected in so many areas too like the organising of official transport to the game rather than having to scramble all ways to get there (at great expense) and holding a beamback at their home stadium for those who couldn't travel. Frankfurt put their fans first and foremost and we didn't.

Reading on reddit that the Germans also liased with the authorities in advance to allow in flags and banners for their display pre match. Was that option even explored by our club? They also prioritised virtually all their ticket allocation to their ultra groups rather than giving half the allocation to corporate etc. I'm just guessing on this bit but it also wouldn't surprise me if they also made sure to provide water too because thats what they do - they put their fans interests and welfare first and put resources towards it and staff are there to work and aid this and help organise. On the other hand we may have had every member of staff at the game - but most were on a jolly rather than looking after the ones that pay their wages.
Click to expand...
Wonder if they got a prior agreement to get flares into the stadium. We've been had. These pesky Germans.
 
Otis Blue said:
I don’t like the idea of being told what to wear. We are not fukin cheerleaders shaking glitter balls.

I thought the Frankfurt fans looked ridiculous all wearing white caps. Totally cringing.

I just wished our fans had been more up for it and had sang more. But I wasn’t there I can’t criticise them , I’m only going by the tv. I don’t think it would have made one jot of a difference to the result. I also can’t imagine frankfurts inane repetitive chanting would lift their players.
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I know what you mean about looking daft but I think that when I see some lads decked out in SI pissed/coked up offering nothing to the atmosphere all in all. When you saw their end all in white I thought it looked really good myself. The atmospheres can be funny in Germany but they can be amazing as well, these displays and all being in same colour focus the support I always find but I can see why it ain't for everyone.
 
Jelle1880 said:
Agreed, I was there earlier this year, amazing stadium.

But my main point was actually to show Rangers that this bullshit excuse of 'Oh our staff are in Spain so sorry, can't do it' is just that: An excuse. ;)

If they opened Ibrox like Frankfurt did it would have meant people could watch the game in their usual environment to watch games, together with other fans. And it would have undoubtedly made some money for the club too.

It'd be like a normal match day.
Instead many fans felt left behind by the club, at least that's how I understood the sentiment when it was clear that no beam back was happening.
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Get the impression they weren't confident enough to try it a bit mate.
 
Wazza said:
You might find this interesting:

www.sdeurope.eu

SLO of the Month: Marc Francis of Eintracht Frankfurt

In honour of the upcoming 10 year anniversary of the development of the Supporter Liaison Officer (SLO) role, SD Europe is excited to announce a new monthly feature of various SLOs across Europe. In what is an emotional, and exciting interview, we had the privilege to ask Eintracht Frankfurt...
www.sdeurope.eu www.sdeurope.eu
Click to expand...

Brilliant. This is exactly what's needed at Ibrox.
 
stefanovitch said:
Frankfurt asked their fans to wear white.

Union Bears (not Rangers) asked Rangers fans to wear blue.

Rangers decided to bring out an orange top the week before the final creating a stampede and desire for fans to buy and wear it.

I'm sure Frankfurts approach wasn't without flaw but Rangers approach wasn't coherent or joined up at all.
Click to expand...
This. Union bears communicate better with the fans than club. Saying that thought the club don’t like union beats which also tells a story. Pay up and shut up
 
Money is a huge factor in how clubs in Germany can be more active with fans.

Frankfurts turnover dwarfs our turnover.

It's something the club needs to be building towards but the money just isn't here in Scotland. We have to spend more to earn more and it would take a few solid years in the CL to become a sustainable club.
 
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