Who is actually a protestant?

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millar2318

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Like, a card carrying full on member of the church of Scotland with a belief in a Christian god? I know there will be many on the forum, but hear me out.

For me (an agnostic in all honesty), I don't consider myself to have a faith. Yea my birth certificate will say church of Scotland at the behest of my parents, but I've not entered a church (bar weddings etc) since I was 5, and I went to a non denominational school, despite some attempts to call these 'proddie schools' in my youth.

Indeed, it would seem that because im white and not a catholic, the default in Scotland is to assume I am therefore a protestant. I've always found that strange, especially where football is concerned, as it tends to simplify the debate and the narrative.

I don't hate Catholics, I've got friends, I have family, I've had lovers, that are catholic. I don't really like Celtic though, the football club. I don't like them not because they're catholic, but because im a rangers fan. I've been indoctrinated a rangers fan, but that's ok, because it is only football, its never been protestant v catholic for me, it's just been about MY football team.

So why do we all get lumped in as one? I've always thought and still believe that the rangers support is a very broad religious make up of protestant, catholic (there are some), Jewish, Muslim, Sikh, atheists and agnostics, certainly more so than the side from the east end who seem to operate a hive mentality

When it comes to the current situation though the whole support is demonised as religiously motivated, when I strongly suspect that's not the case, and it suits a media agenda set by whom im not so sure (although I can guess)

I think it makes it easier for the media to label us sectarian if the polarise opinion and cause the assumption that every single supporter is a religious nut job (you are a rangers fan therefore you are a protestant therefore you hate catholics - I don't think they're mutually exclusive)

It's a strange country.

Sorry for that long post I've not even started drinking yet (perhaps I should!)
 
The Jews do it best. To me Judaism is a religion but not to most Jews. I have known agnostic and atheist Jews but they all identify as Jewish.

We need to start embracing the fact that we might not be religious but we are culturally Protestant.
 
Steve Snedden said:
The Jews do it best. To me Judaism is a religion but not to most Jews. I have known agnostic and atheist Jews but they all identify as Jewish.

We need to start embracing the fact that we might not be religious but we are culturally Protestant.
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Then there's the transition of anti-zionism becoming anti-semitic. Implications of this clear to see in the corridors of Westminster.

Perhaps this analogy is actually quite relevant in this instance.
 
Steve Snedden said:
The Jews do it best. To me Judaism is a religion but not to most Jews. I have known agnostic and atheist Jews but they all identify as Jewish.

We need to start embracing the fact that we might not be religious but we are culturally Protestant.
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This is what it’s all about. This is the post I’d like to Put to people myself. I’m not christened yet. But my 1st child is. My second will follow as will myself & my wife, all in due course.
 
I'll bet that if you took a sample of seaon ticket holders at Ibrox and The Piggery, regarding church attendence (or non-attendance) then you'd see almost the same percentage who claim to actually practice their faith.

However, I almost guarantee that a much higher proportion of them would identify as RC compared to the number of Bears who would identify as Protestant.
 
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I definitely don’t feel affiliated to any religious group and don’t believe in god so don’t identify myself as Protestant. Equally I have no affiliation to the Orange order or even the Masons. I’m a Rangers fan and my loyalty is purely to the team.

There will be many other Rangers fans with a million different beliefs than mine and that is the way it should be.
 
I'm a Christian. I go to church nearly every week. Have done for years. I read the whole Bible last year for a challenge and there are bits that are weird and not exactly a good read. I can live with that
however.

I have catholic neighbours and colleagues and I would say that we are good friends. But they are not green and white mono-wardrobes, or graffiti artists nor do they mock the Ibrox Disaster.

Those are the type that I can't stand. And. as for the paedos and child abusers - they deserve to rot in jail. (I'm reading an excellent book about the Holocaust just now and Pius XII and his pals don't come out of that at all well either!)

I have no affiliation to the Orange Order. In fact I don't think I even know anyone who's a member. Yet, they class us all as the same.

I just wish that those who don't know all the true facts would just let us get on with supporting our team.
 
Steve Snedden said:
The Jews do it best. To me Judaism is a religion but not to most Jews. I have known agnostic and atheist Jews but they all identify as Jewish.

We need to start embracing the fact that we might not be religious but we are culturally Protestant.
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I am most certainly culturally Protestant.
Every facet of my British identity and culture has been crafted by the Protestantism that shaped our nation and in particular that free thinking equality seeking Presbyterianism that has had so much influence throughout the English speaking world.
Protestantism made our societies they made our countries and they made them so special that they are the countries that most Catholics wishing to emigrate have always traditionally sought to go and live in.

But I don't believe in God.
 
The COS is an institution of the elderly. The mean age is just under 50 for men and just over for women. The only real in depth study of Rangers and Celtic support 17 years ago showed that 62 percent were Protestants and 4 percent Catholic buy noted that it was statistically skewed age wise so probably overestimated those identifying as Protestant. With that in mind and the general trend in Europe for Protestants to become not religiously affiliated I would be surprised if we were still a majority Protestant support
 
I think as the years go on it will be less about religion between rangers and the poets and it will become more about politics us the proud unionists v them the nationalists who hate everything about the union i know there is already some of that anyway but i see it intensifying as the years go on
 
Blu_ultra said:
I am a staunch Athiest. The actions of the last week 100% confirm my views of religion as divisive and intolerant. Also....God. come on, embrace the truth.
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I am the same bud. The actions of the last week certainly proves it and that is not just in Scotland. Look at the labour party pish about anti semitism, Look at India and Pakistan

I despise religion in all its forms.

*If religious instruction were not allowed until the child had attained the age of reason, we would be living in a quite different world*
 
Steve Snedden said:
The Jews do it best. To me Judaism is a religion but not to most Jews. I have known agnostic and atheist Jews but they all identify as Jewish.

We need to start embracing the fact that we might not be religious but we are culturally Protestant.
Click to expand...

Effectively though that's what fucked us....a culture that loses it's traditions/structure and meaning mutates into not very much.
 
I think it’s tribalism rooted in cultural identity. Belief in God doesn’t really matter.

The frankly weird Israel/Palestine banners at Oldfirm games a few years back show that it’s all about being the opposite of the other lot, regardless of what you actually believe.
 
Ryan Jack!!!

Steve Snedden said:
The Jews do it best. To me Judaism is a religion but not to most Jews. I have known agnostic and atheist Jews but they all identify as Jewish.

We need to start embracing the fact that we might not be religious but we are culturally Protestant.
Click to expand...
In all seriousness ^^^ This
 
Whatever people's beliefs are though the move into a more secular society has contributed to the sort of sorry mess modern society has become. People are more insular, rude and less likely to interact than they would years ago.

It wasn't exactly Disneyland back in the day growing up in 70's Glasgow but that discipline of church, BB or whatever gave you decent values and sat with your identity.
 
millar2318 said:
Like, a card carrying full on member of the church of Scotland with a belief in a Christian god? I know there will be many on the forum, but hear me out.

For me (an agnostic in all honesty), I don't consider myself to have a faith. Yea my birth certificate will say church of Scotland at the behest of my parents, but I've not entered a church (bar weddings etc) since I was 5, and I went to a non denominational school, despite some attempts to call these 'proddie schools' in my youth.

Indeed, it would seem that because im white and not a catholic, the default in Scotland is to assume I am therefore a protestant. I've always found that strange, especially where football is concerned, as it tends to simplify the debate and the narrative.

I don't hate Catholics, I've got friends, I have family, I've had lovers, that are catholic. I don't really like Celtic though, the football club. I don't like them not because they're catholic, but because im a rangers fan. I've been indoctrinated a rangers fan, but that's ok, because it is only football, its never been protestant v catholic for me, it's just been about MY football team.

So why do we all get lumped in as one? I've always thought and still believe that the rangers support is a very broad religious make up of protestant, catholic (there are some), Jewish, Muslim, Sikh, atheists and agnostics, certainly more so than the side from the east end who seem to operate a hive mentality

When it comes to the current situation though the whole support is demonised as religiously motivated, when I strongly suspect that's not the case, and it suits a media agenda set by whom im not so sure (although I can guess)

I think it makes it easier for the media to label us sectarian if the polarise opinion and cause the assumption that every single supporter is a religious nut job (you are a rangers fan therefore you are a protestant therefore you hate catholics - I don't think they're mutually exclusive)

It's a strange country.

Sorry for that long post I've not even started drinking yet (perhaps I should!)
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I think that is where sectarianism,,bigotry and racism kicks in,When a group of people are judged as a whole but not individuals,Therefore if you are a Rangers fan you are Protestant,Loyalist,Orangeman you are not allowed to be just a football supporter .
 
DylanGer said:
Whatever people's beliefs are though the move into a more secular society has contributed to the sort of sorry mess modern society has become. People are more insular, rude and less likely to interact than they would years ago.

It wasn't exactly Disneyland back in the day growing up in 70's Glasgow but that discipline of church, BB or whatever gave you decent values and sat with your identity.
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And Sunday School as well. Although my parents probably sent us to Sunday School just to get us out of the house, the people who ran it were kindly, and did try to instil in us a basic sense of decency, and to encourage us to be nicer to each other . . . . That is what I remember of it at any rate, rather than any hell and brimstone bible-thumping.
 
Proud to be presbetarian and attend church every Sunday.
Don't force my beliefs on anyone and equally accept everyone's faith,or lack of.
What I do abhor is any terrorist organisation or support of them and equally abhor paedophiles and apologists!
Hence my hatred of the scum and it's morally corrupt knuckle dragging hordes in the east end!
 
DylanGer said:
Whatever people's beliefs are though the move into a more secular society has contributed to the sort of sorry mess modern society has become. People are more insular, rude and less likely to interact than they would years ago.

It wasn't exactly Disneyland back in the day growing up in 70's Glasgow but that discipline of church, BB or whatever gave you decent values and sat with your identity.
Click to expand...

I agree.
 
prostestanism for me was handed down as a family tradition,decent hard working people who instilled in me decency and of course love of rangers football club .i don’t attend church ,stopped going as a teenager ,god who knows ? .does he see the world wide cult who rape children in his name ?hope he sees that they burn in hell .
 
When Protestantism broke the shackles of the Catholic Church it brought with it a freedom and lifestyle we now currently enjoy whether you go to church or not. We are a Protestant country. Look at Ireland which has been in the grip of the church for years and is only now wriggling free. Religion is a plight where many have suffered but the sacrifices made by our forefathers to rid ourselves of the Catholic Church should never be underestimated.
 
UnionCruiser72 said:
What some people don’t understand is that you can hate the Catholic Church and at the same time not hate Catholics.

It’s the institution not the followers that I detest.
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Same mate.

Will lose a lot of staunch points here but some of the people I love and have loved the most were and are RC’s.

And I honestly really don’t like the organisation one bit it’s totally not right but still doesn’t stop or has stopped me loving people who are RC.
 
As a boy I was in BB even though my family home wasn’t really religious. My dad was in OO and I’m sure he had a bible. I’ve been to church around 10 times in my life and read probably half a bible. I’m now 40 don’t do religion at all but I still see myself as Protestant
 
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