Who is actually a protestant?

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Mr Snuffleupagus said:
I understand completely. It's akin to saying you always vote Conservative but are a cultural socialist. It's an intellectual nonsense. You don't believe in God but align with a particular religious strand? It's only yourself you're lying to, mate. That's your decision, but I can't take it seriously, sorry. Reminds me of gay men who marry and have kids, in the hope it will 'cure' them.
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I don't understand where you are coming from.
I attended a Presbyterian Sunday School, I went from Shipmates to Life Boys to the BB until I left school.
The entire society I was raised in was Protestant in every single aspect.
The attitudes of my relatives and my peers were values almost solely influenced by the Protestant Church and were fully reflected in the British institutions I met with in my every waking hour.
Of course, I am fckn culturally Protestant, how could I not be?
If that doesn't refer to you then fine.
I know quite well who I am where my identity was formed and by what.

I suggest without being rude that before you take the history lesson you address a dictionary.
 
williewoodburn said:
Is claiming to be culturally protestant not a bit like the mhanky muppet interviewed on a few years back outside the Piggery who said he wasn't a Roman Catholic, just a catholic ?
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I don't think so.

It's an acknowledgement of the ideas, ideals, beliefs and behaviours that have shaped us without the need to for any ontological arguments about the nature of being.

It's perhaps a reactionary position though. A defence against the constant barrage attacks from RC's in media, police, politics and wider society who express their hatred of our football club as a symbol for something far more troubling
 
BlueLagoonCo said:
As a boy I was in BB even though my family home wasn’t really religious. My dad was in OO and I’m sure he had a bible. I’ve been to church around 10 times in my life and read probably half a bible. I’m now 40 don’t do religion at all but I still see myself as Protestant
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From the Shipmates and right through the BB I was attending Church every Sunday, still do to this day. Unless we have a game on or I'm called into work. I'm Protestant and proud.
 
millar2318 said:
Like, a card carrying full on member of the church of Scotland with a belief in a Christian god? I know there will be many on the forum, but hear me out.

For me (an agnostic in all honesty), I don't consider myself to have a faith. Yea my birth certificate will say church of Scotland at the behest of my parents, but I've not entered a church (bar weddings etc) since I was 5, and I went to a non denominational school, despite some attempts to call these 'proddie schools' in my youth.

Indeed, it would seem that because im white and not a catholic, the default in Scotland is to assume I am therefore a protestant. I've always found that strange, especially where football is concerned, as it tends to simplify the debate and the narrative.

I don't hate Catholics, I've got friends, I have family, I've had lovers, that are catholic. I don't really like Celtic though, the football club. I don't like them not because they're catholic, but because im a rangers fan. I've been indoctrinated a rangers fan, but that's ok, because it is only football, its never been protestant v catholic for me, it's just been about MY football team.

So why do we all get lumped in as one? I've always thought and still believe that the rangers support is a very broad religious make up of protestant, catholic (there are some), Jewish, Muslim, Sikh, atheists and agnostics, certainly more so than the side from the east end who seem to operate a hive mentality

When it comes to the current situation though the whole support is demonised as religiously motivated, when I strongly suspect that's not the case, and it suits a media agenda set by whom im not so sure (although I can guess)

I think it makes it easier for the media to label us sectarian if the polarise opinion and cause the assumption that every single supporter is a religious nut job (you are a rangers fan therefore you are a protestant therefore you hate catholics - I don't think they're mutually exclusive)

It's a strange country.

Sorry for that long post I've not even started drinking yet (perhaps I should!)
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I thought that anyone who protests against the Church of Rome was a protestant, never believed you had to belong to or be associated with any other religion to show your hatred for that vile abhorrent organisation, I am a proud protestant, will be till the day I die!
 
I am an irregular Presbyterian church goer due to work and other commitments, I was BB, Sunday school etc, I come from a mixed family and remember being taken to chapel as a youngster.

I have no hatred towards catholics whatsoever, I completely disagree with their church but that wouldn’t make me Christian if I showed hatred to the individual, the problem is sadly the plastic paddies and chocolate 19th Century Terrorists that have hijacked a religion and piggybacked onto it, I’d like to see the chapel attending numbers of those devout GB members who have machine gun “blessing masell” down to an art.

In fact the “blessing masell” seems to be out of vogue in favour of imaginary rifles
 
bilkobear said:
I don't understand where you are coming from.
I attended a Presbyterian Sunday School, I went from Shipmates to Life Boys to the BB until I left school.
The entire society I was raised in was Protestant in every single aspect.
The attitudes of my relatives and my peers were values almost solely influenced by the Protestant Church and were fully reflected in the British institutions I met with in my every waking hour.
Of course, I am fckn culturally Protestant, how could I not be?
If that doesn't refer to you then fine.
I know quite well who I am where my identity was formed and by what.

I suggest without being rude that before you take the history lesson you address a dictionary.
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Yet you don't believe in God, thus, I presume, you don't live by Christian teaching. Hence the question, how does that 'culture' influence your conduct?


It's entirely possible to be influenced by British institutions whilst being totally non-religious, or whilst believing in some other faith. As far as I'm aware, parliamentary democracy, trial by jury and the rule of law, for example, are not unique to Britian or 'Protestant' countries. I would argue that progressive reform has come despite religion.

It honestly sounds like you are torn: you have rejected God but are afraid to make the clean break. Read Bertrand Russell's essay 'Why I Am Not a Christian'. You don't need that emotional crutch, bud.
 
Ambiorix said:
Used to be a keen Satanist and attend a weekly Black Mass. The hoops you have to jump through these days when handling sacrificial virgins' blood has taken all the fun out of it. Can't really be arsed with it any more and only go out cavorting for the big one on Walpurgisnacht.
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You are lucky you can still find a virgin. Over here, they are rarer than hen's teeth and the disputes about which coven gets her are ridiculous. Sometimes I wish that I had been born Catholic,at least they get into the wine at their services and white masses.
 
Mr Snuffleupagus said:
Yet you don't believe in God, thus, I presume, you don't live by Christian teaching. Hence the question, how does that 'culture' influence your conduct?


It's entirely possible to be influenced by British institutions whilst being totally non-religious, or whilst believing in some other faith. As far as I'm aware, parliamentary democracy, trial by jury and the rule of law, for example, are not unique to Britian or 'Protestant' countries. I would argue that progressive reform has come despite of religion.

It honestly sounds like you are torn; you have rejected God but are afraid to make the clean break. Read Bertrand Russell's essay 'Why I Am Not a Christian'. You don't need that emotional crutch, bud.
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Sorry but I am not going to engage you.
You don't understand the word culture.
I am not here to teach you.

If I continue this it won't end well for me.
 
DylanGer said:
Whatever people's beliefs are though the move into a more secular society has contributed to the sort of sorry mess modern society has become. People are more insular, rude and less likely to interact than they would years ago.

It wasn't exactly Disneyland back in the day growing up in 70's Glasgow but that discipline of church, BB or whatever gave you decent values and sat with your identity.
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You are entitled to your opinion, but manners, standards etc. Cannot be attributed to religion imo. I played in a church football league and some of the Christian people i played with and against had a very warped sense of right and wrong. It totally put me off organised religion. Values absolutely don't need to be tied to relgion imo
 
bilkobear said:
Sorry but I am not going to engage you.
You don't understand the word culture.
I am not here to teach you.

If I continue this it won't end well for me.
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Engage away. I don't think there's anything in your life which you couldn't manage without identifying as a 'cultural Protestant'. If you dropped it tomorrow, nothing in your life would change.You've said you're an atheist, yet you cling to a label which has no intellectual meaning. From what you've said, you seem to use it as a tribal marker, not a philosophical guide to how you live, no different from saying you are Scottish or white. It's incidental, a tag, a phrase to provide a sense of self.

Come on, you're one of us: an atheist to whom religious teaching has no bearing. :cool:
 
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bilkobear said:
I am most certainly culturally Protestant.
Every facet of my British identity and culture has been crafted by the Protestantism that shaped our nation and in particular that free thinking equality seeking Presbyterianism that has had so much influence throughout the English speaking world.
Protestantism made our societies they made our countries and they made them so special that they are the countries that most Catholics wishing to emigrate have always traditionally sought to go and live in.

But I don't believe in God.
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I can identify with all of the above @bilkobear
I am extremely possessive with my British identity, and defend our Union with England, Northern Ireland and Wales whenever I see or hear it challenged. I take great pride in what Protestantism has achieved globally.
I definitely class myself as culturally Protestant.
I am a Loyalist and a Royalist.
I love The Rangers and our incredible supporters, and I have always gravitated to like minded people, even during my RAF service in the eighties and nineties.
However, unlike most of my church-attending family, I do not believe in god.
As a footnote, I need to say that I have no problem with individual Roman Catholics. I detest the evil, paedophilic institution in Rome.
I was brought up in a big housing scheme in the east end of Glasgow that was predominantly Protestant and Loyalist, where Irish Republican sympathisers were few and far between and mostly seen but not heard. I have a deep rooted hatred of Irish Republicanism and will stand against it at every turn til my dying day. They are a stain on our nation and I cannot be around Irish Republican sympathisers.
Unionism and Loyalism is my church.
 
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Religion doesn't interest me and I certainly don't hate someone else because they have a slightly different view on it
 
millar2318 said:
Like, a card carrying full on member of the church of Scotland with a belief in a Christian god? I know there will be many on the forum, but hear me out.

For me (an agnostic in all honesty), I don't consider myself to have a faith. Yea my birth certificate will say church of Scotland at the behest of my parents, but I've not entered a church (bar weddings etc) since I was 5, and I went to a non denominational school, despite some attempts to call these 'proddie schools' in my youth.

Indeed, it would seem that because im white and not a catholic, the default in Scotland is to assume I am therefore a protestant. I've always found that strange, especially where football is concerned, as it tends to simplify the debate and the narrative.

I don't hate Catholics, I've got friends, I have family, I've had lovers, that are catholic. I don't really like Celtic though, the football club. I don't like them not because they're catholic, but because im a rangers fan. I've been indoctrinated a rangers fan, but that's ok, because it is only football, its never been protestant v catholic for me, it's just been about MY football team.

So why do we all get lumped in as one? I've always thought and still believe that the rangers support is a very broad religious make up of protestant, catholic (there are some), Jewish, Muslim, Sikh, atheists and agnostics, certainly more so than the side from the east end who seem to operate a hive mentality

When it comes to the current situation though the whole support is demonised as religiously motivated, when I strongly suspect that's not the case, and it suits a media agenda set by whom im not so sure (although I can guess)

I think it makes it easier for the media to label us sectarian if the polarise opinion and cause the assumption that every single supporter is a religious nut job (you are a rangers fan therefore you are a protestant therefore you hate catholics - I don't think they're mutually exclusive)

It's a strange country.

Sorry for that long post I've not even started drinking yet (perhaps I should!)
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Good post mate,spare a thought I was brought up in Glasgow,as a glaswegian Italian protestant, or a GIP ,i used to say, like yourself only time I've been in church lately was a wedding,no interest in religion at all,and don't care what denomination ANY of our players are!
 
buc11 said:
Not religious in the slightest, and genuinely struggling to think of many people I know who are either.
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Very true, but a lot of folk in the west of Scotland do hide behind it and throw terms like 'Catholic' and 'Protestant' around, though very few I have met are genuinely guided by Christianity. If they were genuinely Christian, there wouldn't be a problem here with sectarianism. Not many of them will uphold the sabbath tomorrow.
 
Steve Snedden said:
Exactly.

I think there's many a poster lining up to prove their atheistic credentials without really being cogniscant of the impact that Christianity has on their daily lives.
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As an atheist, the only impact Christianity has on my day to day life is the endless debate that various Christian groups have on which part of Christianity is the right one. I dont believe in a god and it amazes me that people do tbh
 
Christened in the Church of Scotland in Renfrew in 1966, and brought up a Protestant in a Protestant, working class Rangers household. It shaped my life to a an extent, and I still identify as a Scottish Protestant, but it's more in a cultural sense these days.
 
I am an Elder in the COS. Let’s face it the rivalry between Rangers and Celtics may have been played along religious lines but it is far more complicated than that. There may have been a reformation but a Protestant and Catholic are far closer in their beliefs than with a Muslim or an Aethiest. We talk to the same guy but just don’t agree how it should be done.

The British/Irish thing is far more relevant and more people will identify along those lines than religious ones.
 
RutherglenGer72 said:
As an atheist, the only impact Christianity has on my day to day life is the endless debate that various Christian groups have on which part of Christianity is the right one. I dont believe in a god and it amazes me that people do tbh
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I think Bilko has addressed it better than i could, but there are few aspects of your daily life that were not shape by the Christian faith.

I say this as an agnostic.
 
RutherglenGer72 said:
Where's the applause emoji when i need it :D
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It's not everyone's thing mate but going to Church is what I was born into, I get reasons for not going and totally get it. Our love on here is Rangers and tbh that's all that matters. Everybody's different but we all want the end goal and that's Rangers to be successful.
 
millar2318 said:
Like, a card carrying full on member of the church of Scotland with a belief in a Christian god? I know there will be many on the forum, but hear me out.

For me (an agnostic in all honesty), I don't consider myself to have a faith. Yea my birth certificate will say church of Scotland at the behest of my parents, but I've not entered a church (bar weddings etc) since I was 5, and I went to a non denominational school, despite some attempts to call these 'proddie schools' in my youth.

Indeed, it would seem that because im white and not a catholic, the default in Scotland is to assume I am therefore a protestant. I've always found that strange, especially where football is concerned, as it tends to simplify the debate and the narrative.

I don't hate Catholics, I've got friends, I have family, I've had lovers, that are catholic. I don't really like Celtic though, the football club. I don't like them not because they're catholic, but because im a rangers fan. I've been indoctrinated a rangers fan, but that's ok, because it is only football, its never been protestant v catholic for me, it's just been about MY football team.

So why do we all get lumped in as one? I've always thought and still believe that the rangers support is a very broad religious make up of protestant, catholic (there are some), Jewish, Muslim, Sikh, atheists and agnostics, certainly more so than the side from the east end who seem to operate a hive mentality

When it comes to the current situation though the whole support is demonised as religiously motivated, when I strongly suspect that's not the case, and it suits a media agenda set by whom im not so sure (although I can guess)

I think it makes it easier for the media to label us sectarian if the polarise opinion and cause the assumption that every single supporter is a religious nut job (you are a rangers fan therefore you are a protestant therefore you hate catholics - I don't think they're mutually exclusive)

It's a strange country.

Sorry for that long post I've not even started drinking yet (perhaps I should!)
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Good post.

Just one small irritant.

Capital “C” for celtic and small “r” for Rangers.

Hang your head in shame.
 
Prestwick Bear said:
It's not everyone's thing mate but going to Church is what I was born into, I get reasons for not going and totally get it. Our love on here is Rangers and tbh that's all that matters. Everybody's different but we all want the end goal and that's Rangers to be successful.
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Absolutely respect your choice mate, ive chosen to not go to church. To me it doesnt really matter much what other people believe, just as long as they believe in Rangers
 
Peekaboo said:
I am an Elder in the COS. Let’s face it the rivalry between Rangers and Celtics may have been played along religious lines but it is far more complicated than that. There may have been a reformation but a Protestant and Catholic are far closer in their beliefs than with a Muslim or an Aethiest. We talk to the same guy but just don’t agree how it should be done.

The British/Irish thing is far more relevant and more people will identify along those lines than religious ones.
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This gets lost amongst the hysteria, yet you make a vital point. Christians of all denominations have much more in common with each other than they have with an atheist like me, but when is this point ever made? All too often they denounce each other, not realising they are fundamentally of the same world view.
 
I grew up as a lifeboy, BB and I am proud of what they taught me no abuse no indoctrination but the values of Christianity and forgivness. Fisrt noticed differences when my childhood friends went across the railway line to "their" school . First got annoyed when after a sermon on the Sunday from priests the primary children in catholic schools were playing skipping ropes singing Jimmy Reid is a weed (1974) influenced the election in Clydebank. I could go into the background etc but it shocked me. Three years later a minister at the COS was calling miners the anti christ finished me with all organised religion despite queens badge etc in BB. Still believe in the reformation and true Christian values problem is always feced by human self interest. Would still define as protestant as I protest against the rule of Rome and the shackles that puts on people and the cover ups and the fact it still is medieval
 
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borderbluenose said:
I grew up as a lifebot, BB and I am proud of what they taught me no abuse no indoctrination but the values of Christianity and forgivness. Fisrt noticed differences when my childhood friends went across the railway line to "their" school . First got annoyed when after a sermon on the Sunday from priests the primary children in catholic schools were playing skipping ropes singing Jimmy Reid is a weed (1974) influenced the election in Clydebank. I could go into the background etc but it shocked me. Three years later a minister at the COS was calling miners the anti christ finished me with all organised religion despite queens badge etc in BB. Still believe in the reformation and true Christian values problem is always feced by human self interest. Would still define as protestant as I protest against the rule of Rone and the shackles that puts on people
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But are you prepared to contemplate the notion that all religion puts shackles on people; that it's all brainwashing from birth in supernaturalism of one form or another?
 
bulldozer said:
I think as the years go on it will be less about religion between rangers and the poets and it will become more about politics us the proud unionists v them the nationalists who hate everything about the union i know there is already some of that anyway but i see it intensifying as the years go on
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I think as it stands today, from what I can see anyway, the divide is already more Pro-Britain v Anti-Britain than Protestant v Catholic.

If I boil it down further it appears to be Anti-IRA v Pro-IRA.

Could be wrong but it's how it appears to me.
 
I'm an atheist, but also consider myself a Protestant. I understand some religious people on here don't think I qualify as a Protestant, but I can assure them, I am. After all, I've been called a proddy bastard often enough
 
I’m a proud Protestant. I attend church every few weeks. I struggle with my faith an awful lot. One argument I can’t accept is the “how daft must you be to believe in all that hocus pocus” which I hear sometimes and similar sentiments are posted on this thread - my congregation has some very intelligent people both academically and otherwise (one example: a Scientist/Pharmacologist who was part of a small research team who won the Nobel Prize.)

I think an earlier poster made a great point when showing parallels to the Jews - you can identify as Protestant, particuarly in a cultural sense, but not be religious. I don’t see that as a contradiction at all.

Axelrod said:
Funnily enough I was at a christening in a Protestant church a while back and I could swear I heard the minister say something like “ by the catholic word of god” or similar . I did a double take but forgot to ask around to see if anyone else heard it . Maybe what you’ve said explains it .
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That is the Apostles’ Creed and pre-dates the reformation. It contains “...Holy Catholic Church...”. Catholic in this sense should not be confused with Roman Catholicism. In the Creed ‘Catholic’ means ‘universal’ or ‘whole’. It does sound strange to a lot of people and it’s often changed in Scotland and Northern Ireland for these reasons.
 
Davie Meiklejohn said:
I'm an atheist, but also consider myself a Protestant. I understand some religious people on here don't think I qualify as a Protestant, but I can assure them, I am. After all, I've been called a proddy bastard often enough
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Again, if you're an atheist, why are you allowing religious terms to define you? You can't be a Christian athiest; it's an oxymoron.
 
Stopping being a Protestant is harmless, but if a Catholic stops being a Catholic they are in BIG trouble, forever.
 
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