Why cant scotland produce a world class player?

BlooBlood

Well-Known Member
Such an irrelevant argument you’re making
I think the issue is that nobody really knows what “world class” means.

In my opinion Andy Robertson is the best left back in the world. For me that makes him world class.

If you are comparing him with left backs of the past he’s certainly not going to be the best ever. So in some people’s eyes that might mean he isn’t world class.

He would be first choice left back in any team in the world.
 

Camby_bear72

Well-Known Member
The whole school curriculum doesn't help, at school we only played football for PE as a treat instead it was shite like indoor hockey or basketball? Football is the most popular sport in the world and instead we are running about playing hockey?

Get the kids playing football more in schools at an early age that would help massively.
 

Earl of Leven

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
It is attitude too....under Labour and now SNP Scotland has become a nation of moaning, chip on shoulder, pessimistic, subsidy junkies. Do we really produce kids in any walk of life that reach for the stars and believe they can achieve anything? So there is "this is pish, I'm pish, coaching is pish, I can't be arsed cleaning my own strip, I can't believe I've not been signed by Arsenal academy yet, %^*& this...." thing.

We also coach on physique still....ludicrous. We also remain obsessed with trophies when kids should be copying whatever Barca and Ajax do: rondos, small pitches, head height restrictions etc. Let them get a touch, and love the ball...the rest comes later.

And at senior level we either don't play them or make them track back and tackled folk...only here is a 22 year old a youngster.
 

Teuchterblue

Well-Known Member
How much of the Welsh thing is down to their clubs being in the English structure?
That's impossible to quantify but I'm convinced that young players regularly tested against, and training with, the very best youngsters will benefit Welsh players. I assume English clubs also invest almost as much time & money inside Wales as they will in England; a young Ryan Giggs is just as valuable to Man Utd as a local kid from Manchester.
 

Xavi Hernandez

Well-Known Member
Robertson for me is not World Class. He is a very good player in a brilliant Liverpool team where their style of play and formation will suit any fast wing back with a good delivery. Drop Tavernier into Liverpool's right back slot and he would be a sensation. I thought Ashley Cole was a World Class left back. He could defend and attack in equal measures and very rarely gave right wingers a sniff.

There have been mentions earlier in the thread of Darren Fletcher being world class? Never. Again, a player that performed well in his job surrounded by a team of brilliant players. But never World Class for me.

I know some on here think Barry Ferguson was World Class but again, he was no where near it IMO. There is a reason that out with us he played with Blackburn and Birmingham.

Most smaller nations though need one World Class player and it makes a huge difference. Bale has done it with Wales. Have a solid spine and have then one game changer. Going back a few years, Bulgaria had Stoichkov who allowed them to punch well above their weight.

To a lesser extent, Goran Pandev with Macedonia. Not World Class but a very good player in an average team.

Scotland need one player to step up and be head and shoulders above the rest and there is no one coming through at the minute.
 
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YoungGer97

Well-Known Member
Too many people in this thread saying Robertson isn't world class purely because they think he wouldn't match up against a left back from say 15 years ago.

What you're forgetting is that ability is relative. Hes the best left back in the world right now, at the very least top 3. Therefore By definition he is a world class player.
 

Superrangers

Well-Known Member
That's impossible to quantify but I'm convinced that young players regularly tested against, and training with, the very best youngsters will benefit Welsh players. I assume English clubs also invest almost as much time & money inside Wales as they will in England; a young Ryan Giggs is just as valuable to Man Utd as a local kid from Manchester.
Playing better youngsters can only help drag up your own standard. That’s why it was good for Gerrard/Rangers to line up as many games against
non-Scottish opposition.

Giggs moved to Manchester when he was 6 but yes, the English clubs clearly will scout in Wales.
 

Teuchterblue

Well-Known Member
Playing better youngsters can only help drag up your own standard. That’s why it was good for Gerrard/Rangers to line up as many games against
non-Scottish opposition.

Giggs moved to Manchester when he was 6 but yes, the English clubs clearly will scout in Wales.
Ah, I didn't know that about Giggs. The point still stands that whatever is happening in Welsh youth football is night and day compared to here in Scotland - at least until recently. It's also why I don't blame young Scottish kids, or too much xbox, or our wider culture. Our kids are not that different to those of Wales, Belgium or Germany. Yet those countries continue to produce top players.
 

Goldenboot

Well-Known Member
parks riddled with glass and dug sh!te, councils selling parks, "no ball games" signs everywhere, lack of 1st class facilities for boys clubs to play/train on, 10 chips shops on every street, overall poor diet.

Thats just off the top of my head
 

dt17

Well-Known Member
I think the issue is that nobody really knows what “world class” means.

In my opinion Andy Robertson is the best left back in the world. For me that makes him world class.

If you are comparing him with left backs of the past he’s certainly not going to be the best ever. So in some people’s eyes that might mean he isn’t world class.

He would be first choice left back in any team in the world.
He fits the Liverpool system well, but nobody is convincing me he's better than guys like Jordi Alba or Marcelo.
 

Xavi Hernandez

Well-Known Member
You could put Robertson in either the Barca or Madrid team and he wouldn’t look out of place.
You could say that about hundreds of players. Drop a good player into a well oiled machine and they will comfortably hold their own.

If Robertson starts tearing it up with Scotland and makes a difference game in game out then we can talk about World Class (albeit it is difficult to do this from left back).

It's all about our interpretation of World Class but I think alot of the time folk get mixed up between a World Class player and a player playing in a World Class team (if that makes sense :D).
 

RFC4ME

Well-Known Member
You could say that about hundreds of players. Drop a good player into a well oiled machine and they will comfortably hold their own.

If Robertson starts tearing it up with Scotland and makes a difference game in game out then we can talk about World Class (albeit it is difficult to do this from left back).

It's all about our interpretation of World Class but I think alot of the time folk get mixed up between a World Class player and a player playing in a World Class team (if that makes sense :D).
Would Marcelo do that?
 

TN8

Well-Known Member
World class gets thrown about far too much and can be a bit ambiguous.

But Andy Robertson is clearly world class. And he's probably the first world class player Scotland has had since the 1980s.

So we've produced one, but can Scotland really take any credit for it? He was punted from Celtic at 15 and ended up playing for Queens Park.
 

Xavi Hernandez

Well-Known Member
Would Marcelo do that?
Don't know mate, he plays for Brazil.

In all seriousness though, I suppose it is difficult to have a certain type of influence from left back. There is no doubt Robertson is vital to the way Liverpool play and his delivery is fantastic. The modern full back is changing and is attack first and defend second. I can see why folk think he is World Class but I am not in agreement (yet).

Messi and Ronaldo's performances the past 12 years or so have pushed the barometer up so much that you perhaps lose sight of what a World Class player is, because everyone else in comparison is nowhere near their level.
 

Superrangers

Well-Known Member
But to get that move abroad they must have had a certain amount of talent in the first place.
Indeed. It’s a question of where the bulk of their development comes in and even in the case of a rough diamond, how much potential is spotted. Bale, for instance, I would say was a later developer. The other two?
 

Partickger

Well-Known Member
Name 10 better left backs than Andy Robertson and you will have validated your point.
You’re defining world class as the best 110 players in the world?

Surely best 11 or maybe top 20 players can only truly be defined as world class?

All depends on the definition.
 

ICA_86

Well-Known Member
You could say that about hundreds of players. Drop a good player into a well oiled machine and they will comfortably hold their own.

If Robertson starts tearing it up with Scotland and makes a difference game in game out then we can talk about World Class (albeit it is difficult to do this from left back).

It's all about our interpretation of World Class but I think alot of the time folk get mixed up between a World Class player and a player playing in a World Class team (if that makes sense :D).
Once you’re at a point where every single club in world football would find a space for you in their team, I’d say you’re world class.

And there’s no way that Madrid, Barca, Bayern, Juventus, PSG, Man City, Chelsea etc would ever say no to Robertson.

It’s hard to define though.
 
The culture of booze and poor diet is definitely a major factor in why we don't produce world class players. But also the mentality of the average Scot nowadays is that of an angry, petty, chip on shoulder whinger who glorifies failure and enjoys being able to feel oppressed in some way or other. Success to people like this is frowned upon and dismissed as arrogance, as they would rather wallow in victimhood and hatred of the English/British. It's not going to change either as long as the SNP are in power as they actively encourage this mindset.
 

RFC4ME

Well-Known Member
I reckon in a population of billions, millions of those who want to play football that if you find yourself playing for an Elite/Last 16 CL club you can call yourself World Class.

There are literally billions of people who aren't as good at football as someone like Robertson in his position and only an arguable 20, 30 who can say their better.

If I reached that place fucken right I would be thinking I was World Class.
 

Bishbear

Active Member
I don't believe alcohol intake has a bearing on our status. Doubt very much that many, if any, player in the SPL abuses this. On the Andy Robertson debate, had he stayed in Scotland with any team, he'd still be bang average. So the coaching he's got at L'pool is the difference. Finally our dreadful league setup is a contributing factor. Opponents only need to know who to physically bully (not outplay) when they plan for their next game. We play each other far too often, familiarity leads, in this case, to apathy.
 
Think a lot of The kids don't love playing football the way we used to years ago. We had next to the school great facilities that were free,astro pitch,full size goals and pitch along with 5 a side goals with nets and floodlights,we would have bitten your hand of for something like that. Lottery money paid for this and within a couple of years the place was wrecked,goal posts snapped,nets ripped apart and pitches were tore up and had burn marks,also became a drinking den with empty cans and bottles all over the place. started off ok but ended with hardly anybody kicking a ball in the place.was a sad state of affairs
 

bluetonic

Well-Known Member
I don't believe alcohol intake has a bearing on our status. Doubt very much that many, if any, player in the SPL abuses this. On the Andy Robertson debate, had he stayed in Scotland with any team, he'd still be bang average. So the coaching he's got at L'pool is the difference. Finally our dreadful league setup is a contributing factor. Opponents only need to know who to physically bully (not outplay) when they plan for their next game. We play each other far too often, familiarity leads, in this case, to apathy.
Good post
 

BL11

Well-Known Member
You’re defining world class as the best 110 players in the world?

Surely best 11 or maybe top 20 players can only truly be defined as world class?

All depends on the definition.
He's a Left back who is in the EPL team of the year and the only out and out LB in the CL Squad of the year.

That's world class.

Name the World Class LB being kept out of the EPL and CL End of Season select.
 

johnto

Well-Known Member
Why don’t you actually make an argument to back up your point rather than just saying “what an irrelevant argument”
because like I said it’s irrelevant. Think about it, he needs me to name 10 better left backs or else Robertson is by default world class... it makes less than no sense
 

BL11

Well-Known Member
because like I said it’s irrelevant. Think about it, he needs me to name 10 better left backs or else Robertson is by default world class... it makes less than no sense
I then made the further point that Robertson has been named as best LB in the EPL by making the team of the season and is the ONLY out and out LB in the UEFA Champions League Squad of the Season.

Who is the world class LB that Robertson is keeping out the EPL team or CL squad?
 

RFC4ME

Well-Known Member
I don't believe alcohol intake has a bearing on our status. Doubt very much that many, if any, player in the SPL abuses this. On the Andy Robertson debate, had he stayed in Scotland with any team, he'd still be bang average. So the coaching he's got at L'pool is the difference. Finally our dreadful league setup is a contributing factor. Opponents only need to know who to physically bully (not outplay) when they plan for their next game. We play each other far too often, familiarity leads, in this case, to apathy.

I don't entirely agree with that - Robertston has passed the stage of bang average by the time he left Dundee United and Hull

Someone for a while at Dundee United was doing decent work with players.
 
Lots of reasons why. The very special players are just born with it, but still have to work hard to reach the top level.

Coaching at every level, diet, attitude, drugs and alcohol all play a part. As well as luck. I've played with and seen players that have had the ability from a young age to make it to the top level but their lives have been derailed by starting to go out and get p*shed or worse the night before training and games, as soon as that starts you are going no where. I have also seen other players that just got overlooked due to where they are from or what size they are or what team they currently play at. It can be a very elitist sport sometimes. Just because you play for some poor schemes amateurs doesn't mean you can't be better than people at the very stupid pro youth levels, junior or top amateur teams.

Overall at our own top level, I feel we are so far behind because of coaching mostly. There is very few offensive, creative coaches out there. Most teams I see from amateur, to boys clubs to the top level is more concerned with damage limitation. Coaching problems won't be causes 1 or 2 world class players coming through but it certainly effect our teams, as a whole system, being useless are controlling a game and being able to confidently play with the ball in tight areas.
 
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