Why cant scotland produce a world class player?

Graemeh89

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
Interestingly, the players originally quoted have largely developed abroad. Suarez moved to Europe at 19, Sanchez at 18 and Bale was in the Southampton youth system from the age of 10.
But to get that move abroad they must have had a certain amount of talent in the first place.
 

Coisty09

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
Most countries don’t produce world class players. Our problem is we can’t produce enough “good” players. Switzerland for example don’t have any world class players but they are far superior to Scotland.
Shakiri is world class!!
 

Xavi Hernandez

Well-Known Member
Would Marcelo do that?
Don't know mate, he plays for Brazil.

In all seriousness though, I suppose it is difficult to have a certain type of influence from left back. There is no doubt Robertson is vital to the way Liverpool play and his delivery is fantastic. The modern full back is changing and is attack first and defend second. I can see why folk think he is World Class but I am not in agreement (yet).

Messi and Ronaldo's performances the past 12 years or so have pushed the barometer up so much that you perhaps lose sight of what a World Class player is, because everyone else in comparison is nowhere near their level.
 

parhumbug

Well-Known Member
different kind of player here
I vote Nature Boy.
many positions,carrying injuries ,lack of protection always performed.
 

Superrangers

Well-Known Member
But to get that move abroad they must have had a certain amount of talent in the first place.
Indeed. It’s a question of where the bulk of their development comes in and even in the case of a rough diamond, how much potential is spotted. Bale, for instance, I would say was a later developer. The other two?
 

Partickger

Well-Known Member
Name 10 better left backs than Andy Robertson and you will have validated your point.
You’re defining world class as the best 110 players in the world?

Surely best 11 or maybe top 20 players can only truly be defined as world class?

All depends on the definition.
 

ICA_86

Well-Known Member
You could say that about hundreds of players. Drop a good player into a well oiled machine and they will comfortably hold their own.

If Robertson starts tearing it up with Scotland and makes a difference game in game out then we can talk about World Class (albeit it is difficult to do this from left back).

It's all about our interpretation of World Class but I think alot of the time folk get mixed up between a World Class player and a player playing in a World Class team (if that makes sense :D).
Once you’re at a point where every single club in world football would find a space for you in their team, I’d say you’re world class.

And there’s no way that Madrid, Barca, Bayern, Juventus, PSG, Man City, Chelsea etc would ever say no to Robertson.

It’s hard to define though.
 

StrathbungoLoyal

Well-Known Member
The culture of booze and poor diet is definitely a major factor in why we don't produce world class players. But also the mentality of the average Scot nowadays is that of an angry, petty, chip on shoulder whinger who glorifies failure and enjoys being able to feel oppressed in some way or other. Success to people like this is frowned upon and dismissed as arrogance, as they would rather wallow in victimhood and hatred of the English/British. It's not going to change either as long as the SNP are in power as they actively encourage this mindset.
 

RFC4ME

Well-Known Member
I reckon in a population of billions, millions of those who want to play football that if you find yourself playing for an Elite/Last 16 CL club you can call yourself World Class.

There are literally billions of people who aren't as good at football as someone like Robertson in his position and only an arguable 20, 30 who can say their better.

If I reached that place fucken right I would be thinking I was World Class.
 

Bishbear

Active Member
I don't believe alcohol intake has a bearing on our status. Doubt very much that many, if any, player in the SPL abuses this. On the Andy Robertson debate, had he stayed in Scotland with any team, he'd still be bang average. So the coaching he's got at L'pool is the difference. Finally our dreadful league setup is a contributing factor. Opponents only need to know who to physically bully (not outplay) when they plan for their next game. We play each other far too often, familiarity leads, in this case, to apathy.
 

Renfrew@UKGB&NI

Well-Known Member
Think a lot of The kids don't love playing football the way we used to years ago. We had next to the school great facilities that were free,astro pitch,full size goals and pitch along with 5 a side goals with nets and floodlights,we would have bitten your hand of for something like that. Lottery money paid for this and within a couple of years the place was wrecked,goal posts snapped,nets ripped apart and pitches were tore up and had burn marks,also became a drinking den with empty cans and bottles all over the place. started off ok but ended with hardly anybody kicking a ball in the place.was a sad state of affairs
 

bluetonic

Well-Known Member
I don't believe alcohol intake has a bearing on our status. Doubt very much that many, if any, player in the SPL abuses this. On the Andy Robertson debate, had he stayed in Scotland with any team, he'd still be bang average. So the coaching he's got at L'pool is the difference. Finally our dreadful league setup is a contributing factor. Opponents only need to know who to physically bully (not outplay) when they plan for their next game. We play each other far too often, familiarity leads, in this case, to apathy.
Good post
 

BL11

Well-Known Member
You’re defining world class as the best 110 players in the world?

Surely best 11 or maybe top 20 players can only truly be defined as world class?

All depends on the definition.
He's a Left back who is in the EPL team of the year and the only out and out LB in the CL Squad of the year.

That's world class.

Name the World Class LB being kept out of the EPL and CL End of Season select.
 

scottishcampbell

Well-Known Member
World class for me is if you were to put a World 11 together at this point in time would he get his his position in that team, for me yes, he probably would.
 

johnto

Well-Known Member
Why don’t you actually make an argument to back up your point rather than just saying “what an irrelevant argument”
because like I said it’s irrelevant. Think about it, he needs me to name 10 better left backs or else Robertson is by default world class... it makes less than no sense
 

Barryhopez

Well-Known Member
Although the term is subjective I would say that there is a proportion of people who basically decry any Scottish talent. It's the Scottish way.
 

BL11

Well-Known Member
because like I said it’s irrelevant. Think about it, he needs me to name 10 better left backs or else Robertson is by default world class... it makes less than no sense
I then made the further point that Robertson has been named as best LB in the EPL by making the team of the season and is the ONLY out and out LB in the UEFA Champions League Squad of the Season.

Who is the world class LB that Robertson is keeping out the EPL team or CL squad?
 

RFC4ME

Well-Known Member
I don't believe alcohol intake has a bearing on our status. Doubt very much that many, if any, player in the SPL abuses this. On the Andy Robertson debate, had he stayed in Scotland with any team, he'd still be bang average. So the coaching he's got at L'pool is the difference. Finally our dreadful league setup is a contributing factor. Opponents only need to know who to physically bully (not outplay) when they plan for their next game. We play each other far too often, familiarity leads, in this case, to apathy.

I don't entirely agree with that - Robertston has passed the stage of bang average by the time he left Dundee United and Hull

Someone for a while at Dundee United was doing decent work with players.
 

HunterRFC

Active Member
Lots of reasons why. The very special players are just born with it, but still have to work hard to reach the top level.

Coaching at every level, diet, attitude, drugs and alcohol all play a part. As well as luck. I've played with and seen players that have had the ability from a young age to make it to the top level but their lives have been derailed by starting to go out and get p*shed or worse the night before training and games, as soon as that starts you are going no where. I have also seen other players that just got overlooked due to where they are from or what size they are or what team they currently play at. It can be a very elitist sport sometimes. Just because you play for some poor schemes amateurs doesn't mean you can't be better than people at the very stupid pro youth levels, junior or top amateur teams.

Overall at our own top level, I feel we are so far behind because of coaching mostly. There is very few offensive, creative coaches out there. Most teams I see from amateur, to boys clubs to the top level is more concerned with damage limitation. Coaching problems won't be causes 1 or 2 world class players coming through but it certainly effect our teams, as a whole system, being useless are controlling a game and being able to confidently play with the ball in tight areas.
 
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basil1

Well-Known Member
Robertson is up there and if not world class yet can still improve. Don’t think Fraser will ever be there but can get to a good level. Tierney is also a very good player and is at decent level for his age. Needs to head to another league and kick on but has a chance of going far. Reckon a few more should appear like Billy Gilmour where they’ve been fed, trained and taught discipline at performance schools from a young age
 

johnto

Well-Known Member
I then made the further point that Robertson has been named as best LB in the EPL by making the team of the season and is the ONLY out and out LB in the UEFA Champions League Squad of the Season.

Who is the world class LB that Robertson is keeping out the EPL team or CL squad?
So u agree your name 10 better left backs argument was pointless and irrelevant and now want to shift onto who made a “fictional” squad. I bet if u went back through the years you would find some surprising dodgy names in the team of the year things... just because a player is one of them doesn’t automatically make him world class.
 

Troy McClure

Well-Known Member
because like I said it’s irrelevant. Think about it, he needs me to name 10 better left backs or else Robertson is by default world class... it makes less than no sense
Why isnt he a world class left back then?

The term implies that he is one of the top left backs playing in the world - you should be able to name more than a few left backs that are undeniably better if you are going to say hes not world class
 

BL11

Well-Known Member
So u agree your name 10 better left backs argument was pointless and irrelevant and now want to shift onto who made a “fictional” squad. I bet if u went back through the years you would find some surprising dodgy names in the team of the year things... just because a player is one of them doesn’t automatically make him world class.
I refined my point to validate the point I was trying to make.

You’re dodging questions because your logic is flawed.

These are not fictional squads, these are factual and voted on by his peers.

Can you answer the question, who is the world class LB that Robertson is keeping our the CL said of the season?

In your own time, Son.
 

dt17

A mate of mine.....
Anyone suggesting Robertson is better than Alba doesn't watch enough football tbh.

Lots of reasons why. The very special players are just born with it, but still have to work hard to reach the top level.

Coaching at every level, diet, attitude, drugs and alcohol all play a part. As well as luck. I've played with and seen players that have had the ability from a young age to make it to the top level but their lives have been derailed by starting to go out and get p*shed or worse the night before training and games, as soon as that starts you are going no where. I have also seen other players that just got overlooked due to where they are from or what size they are or what team they currently play at. It can be a very elitist sport sometimes. Just because you play for some poor schemes amateurs doesn't mean you can't be better than people at the very stupid pro youth levels, junior or top amateur teams.

Overall at our own top level, I feel we are so far behind because of coaching mostly. There is very few offensive, creative coaches out there. Most teams I see from amateur, to boys clubs to the top level is more concerned with damage limitation. Coaching problems won't be causes 1 or 2 world class players coming through but it certainly effect our teams, as a whole system, being useless are controlling a game and being able to confidently play with the ball in tight areas.
Some really good points made. I think diet has a huge part to play in it. I wish when I was playing I'd known more about what to eat / what not to eat to improve performance.

Another point that I see happening across the UK is that players are coached to play a system. IMO you'll struggle to see flair players in the coming years because it's drilled out of them. Basically you're taught to keep possession and play safe.

Shame really because football is about entertainment and there's nothing that gets you off your seat more than a player showing skill / dribbling past opponents.
 

johnto

Well-Known Member
Why isnt he a world class left back then?

The term implies that he is one of the top left backs playing in the world - you should be able to name more than a few left backs that are undeniably better if you are going to say hes not world class
Because I’m of the opinion he isn’t world class ok? The same opinion quite a few others have. Why don’t u get that. I’m also of the opinion he very well may be eventually

I’d take Marcelo or alba before him
 

johnto

Well-Known Member
I refined my point to validate the point I was trying to make.

You’re dodging questions because your logic is flawed.

These are not fictional squads, these are factual and voted on by his peers.

Can you answer the question, who is the world class LB that Robertson is keeping our the CL said of the season?

In your own time, Son.
I’m not ur son. They are fictional, they aren’t real squads. I’m dodging nothing. My logic is fine. I’d have Marcelo or alba before him.
 

senefelder

Well-Known Member
parks riddled with glass and dug sh!te, councils selling parks, "no ball games" signs everywhere, lack of 1st class facilities for boys clubs to play/train on, 10 chips shops on every street, overall poor diet.

Thats just off the top of my head
Factor in possibly a majority of youngsters not in the slightest bit interested in any physical activity whatsoever. These threads generally descend into anecdotal and I'm no different, with mine being earlier this year during the Easter holiday, I was walking the dog in the local park. It has one of those multi purpose sport areas, astro turfed, football goals, and baskets for basketball. There was ONE kid in it knocking a ball around. I should add that I'd wager he wasn't born on these shores. As long as such a low percentage of our youngsters are disinterested in even working up a sweat, talk of infrastructure and poor coaching is pointless.
Or perhaps we need to wait on that young lad or his pals to mature.
 

Graemeh89

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
Indeed. It’s a question of where the bulk of their development comes in and even in the case of a rough diamond, how much potential is spotted. Bale, for instance, I would say was a later developer. The other two?
Bale made his Southampton Debut and was playing for wales at 16 , got his move to spurs at 18 , wouldn’t say he was a late developer.

Suárez got his move to Europe young aswell 18/19 Groningen signed him before he went to Ajax not long after.
 
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