Why Jack and Kamara works for us

I think the move to a 4231 suits them more than being in a standard 433.

Allows them to do more of the boring stuff and lets the 3 of Kent, Aribo and Hagi focus on attacking.

Kamara is a really good player. A lot still bog him down with his 50k bought from Dundee tag. There's a reason that people are scouting him for 8 figures!
 
I think it works okay as long as the full backs are getting forward and we have a front 3 plus an attacking centre mid like hagi in there as well. Hoping we are still in the market for a box to box centre mid that can give us a more attacking option in there for games where sides are sitting in
 
It’s been a great start for Kamara so far this season and hopefully he’ll push on to become a pivotal part of the team..
One criticism of him last season was he was a little inconsistent. If he overcomes that he can become a top class player for us.
 
It’s a good analysis, but I think the issue is a simple lack of greater ability in those roles, from Jack especially.

I like him as a player and in the first half of last season I thought he raised his game to a level I hadn’t previously felt he had in him, but at the same time he has his limitations.

Last night, as solid as he was, there were a few occasions where there was space for him to either run into or try and play a more probing pass where instead he checked and played it square or back the way instead.

It was also a feature of his game in the second half of last season too where a degree of risk taking or maybe just ability was lacking.

It’s a tough call to make because as I say he’s been a very good player for us, but he’s operating in an area where I think we really need to have one of our very best and most influential players performing and I just don’t feel Jack is that player often enough for us.
 
My heart is in my mouth every time Kamara takes the ball in our half with his back to goal. He always has to do a little shimmy and invites being closed down. I can’t forget Tynecastle last season. That setback cost us the league.
 
All I'd say is I'll wait to see how this system plays out when we face a tougher challenge against a team who are well set out / structured & park the bus effectively as it didn't work in the 2nd half of last season & we were v unflexible in terms of changing it.

Both St Johnstone & St Mirren were dire & it never really worked vs Aberdeen (although pointless judging the 1st game back too much)
 
if we want to play with high full backs they are both crucial - you saw St Johnstone had a couple of breaks where a better team would have punished that slackness -having both prevents that from happening too often. I’m also of the view that when you have 10 behind the ball sometimes more attacking bodies contesting the area doesn’t always help.

They’re not always attractive but I can appreciate what they bring to the table. Would be good to have someone who can play that role and also drive forward from the DM position on occasion. Not sure if the lad Zunga is that type.

I'd be shocked if we signed him considering what i see of him on his instagram, doesn't strike me as the type Gerrard wants in the squad.
 
Make no mistake, it does.

If you watch both for any length of time during a game it actually becomes quite clear what their exact roles are, and more importantly, what those roles allow the rest of the side to do.

When we have the ball, one will sit on the halfway line at one of the fullback positions and the other will split our centre halves. This forces their striker and a midfielder to the side where our man is and pretty much every time, we end up with a free walk into their half, with both of our fullbacks already in very advanced positions (it works very well in a diagonal, meaning if jack is at LB, Tav will be the out-ball after 2-3 passes normally because their midfield will shuffle over to counter our man advantage on the left).

Having both midfielders playing from our own back line, with one advancing and one sitting in as cover for the defence allows both of our fullbacks to push on at will, as well as giving us a midfielder sat halfway in their half. If we lose the ball, we have cover, if Balogun wants a wander, we have cover and it gives absolutely every player in front of them far more scope and freedom that they would normally have. We do, at all times, only need to bring one of Tav and Barisic back to defend to have a full backline in place and that gives us a huge advantage when we move forwards. It is more apparent with Borna just now, but he plays 70 odd minutes of the game in their half and absolutely every single time the ball is on our left flank, he is in position to make a run past the last man. That only happens because of the positions that Jack and Kamara take up.

I get that it is easy to just call for more attack minded players and think that it equals a more attack minded team, but those 2 in our midfield, and more specifically, the roles they play, free up so much space for other players that we would lose FAR more than we would gain simply by playing one of them in a more traditional role with a more attacking partner.
Good analysis.
The one proviso I'd add is that they take fewer touches in possession, then we'd be cooking with gas.
 
One thing I don’t miss about Ibrox is ‘move itttttt’ ‘get the baw up Tha park ffs Rangers!’.

We have been a bit slow in the last 2 games I am not to sure Ibrox would’ve been as calm as it was the last 2 games with our support at the games.
 
I don’t think anyone questions their value to the team, I think what people wonder is if we can do what we do with just one of them next to a more attack focused player.
 
I don’t think anyone questions their value to the team, I think what people wonder is if we can do what we do with just one of them next to a more attack focused player.
Could leave us exposed to the counter attack.
I don't think we'll be changing anytime soon.
 
I understand where you are coming from op but the problem is we have the same midfield as last year and it came up short. I like jack and kamara and they will have a place in the squad but we also need someone in there with a bit if pace and drive to get us up the park faster. We really struggled to break teams down after january and by not freshening up the midfield there is a strong chance that that will be repeated.
 
My initial understanding was he was the same as what we already have but haven’t seen enough of him. To be fair our transfer business has all been conducted pretty quietly so might just be agents punting their clients. I expect we are looking for a box to box type who can play the Jack Kamara role but can push on if the game requires and break the lines.


I'd be shocked if we signed him considering what i see of him on his instagram, doesn't strike me as the type Gerrard wants in the squad.
 
I thought it was very obvious last night, in the second half particularly, how Kamara would go and sit in the left back role to allow Borna to rampage forwards. When we had the ball Kamara was at left back, with Borna almost left of the front 3!
 
Surely in this league two CB's plus one DM and other players just doing their job is more than enough to stop a counter?
The manager obviously disagrees.
I think he likes the added insurance of both Kamara and Jack playing deep. I think the key to the system is for both to take fewer touches and move the ball forward a little quicker.
 
Totally agree however this role they fulfil is the "easy" part of being a CM. There are players who could do the same job whilst also offering an occasional attacking threat. Whether we can afford such a player may be another matter unfortunately
 
The manager obviously disagrees.
I think he likes the added insurance of both Kamara and Jack playing deep. I think the key to the system is for both to take fewer touches and move the ball forward a little quicker.


I think it's been noticeable in the 3 league games so far that both Kamara and Jack are shifting the ball quicker, in comparison to last season.
 
Surely in this league two CB's plus one DM and other players just doing their job is more than enough to stop a counter?
um, that is exactly what we do just now. :D One of the 'DM'(neither are, by the way) is covering, the other supporting. If one of them were not covering at the back, one or both of our fullbacks would be doing that job.
 
I thought it was very obvious last night, in the second half particularly, how Kamara would go and sit in the left back role to allow Borna to rampage forwards. When we had the ball Kamara was at left back, with Borna almost left of the front 3!

Seen one of those average position graphics from the first half last night and Borna had the most advanced average position of any of our players.
 
um, that is exactly what we do just now. :D One of the 'DM'(neither are, by the way) is covering, the other supporting. If one of them were not covering at the back, one or both of our fullbacks would be doing that job.

If we used one of them, we may have more breakaways to deal with that these types of opposition seemed to always get a goal from. We limited them considerably and went on and won 3-0, that tells me it's working.

There is also the school of thought that you play your way all the time and players get better at doing it.

With these two back we have 6 attacking players. Adding more all the time removes space.
 
Here's the heatmaps for the midfielders forward including fullbacks


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You can see how much Borna,tav and Kamara do
Hate being a smartarse (honest guv) but those maps for Jack and Kamara demonstrate exactly what I said at the start. Specifically, look at Kamara at leftback for good portions of the game, and how effective Borna is with the ball, then tell me it is a waste of a player having Kamara doing what he does. He sits in that full back position, with Jack pushing up to midway in their half.
 
Absolutely need a ball carrying midfielder. We only started getting dace when the centre half's came out with the ball allowing the midfield too much up a bit.
 
Totally agree - decent player but not what’s needed. He looks scared on the ball at times, and a few times when he has it played to feet with his back to play he gets caught too easy

Kamara is an average player who plays side to side and back, would take any offer we get for him.
 
The manager has to take a good hard look at this - it simply isn't condusive to how we need to play against the dross in SPHell.

Sort it out!!

We absolutely need an upgrade on Jack!!
 
Tired of watching these two take too many touches and be so slow in possession just to play the ball to the side or back, it's been blatantly obvious for a long time it's an issue yet he persists with it and results like these will continue to happen. Will end up costing him his job.
 
Our forward players created absolutely fuck all and folk come on here with preconceived opinions to stick the boot in Jack and Kamara.
 
Today was probably a prime example of everything that doesnt work in the pairing in a domestic setting.

Slows down the game too much against defensive low blocks.

Even with seconds to go we are playing secure sideways passes.

In Europe it is great as we are the counter/blocking team.

Playing that against teams not opening up in the league will ultimately result in same league position
 
Doesn't work against this dross... Europe aye and celtic aye. Against the rest it doesn't... We don't create anything and dance about passing between midfield and center Half's
 
Unacceptable playing the pair of them against dross like St Mirren, St Johnstone and Livi.
 
All I'd say is I'll wait to see how this system plays out when we face a tougher challenge against a team who are well set out / structured & park the bus effectively as it didn't work in the 2nd half of last season & we were v unflexible in terms of changing it.

Both St Johnstone & St Mirren were dire & it never really worked vs Aberdeen (although pointless judging the 1st game back too much)

Didn't take many games for this to ring true already.

Today highlighted exactly why we need a quality replacement for Jack or Kamara. Someone who can spot the early forward pass or drive with the ball.

I can't watch Jack and Kamara play that same lazy 5-10 yard pass between them when we are chasing a game all season.

They are also dreadfully lazy making space to take the ball from the CBs forcing them to make the same sideways pass between them before playing long
 
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