Would Souness have been more of a success at Liverpool if he'd taken Walter as his no.2?

HandsomeHead

HandsomeHead

Well-Known Member
Was watching a clip of him talking about his time there with some regret and it got me thinking would it have been a different story with Smith alongside him?

It's often been said that Walter was the football brains behind Souness's success at Ibrox so could he have helped guide Liverpool to more glory than they managed without him, or was it always simply the end of an era at Anfield regardless of managerial personnel?
 
Walter might have helped but I think the problems at Liverpool were so big and they'd been so successful for so long that they weren't open to change. Also difficult to manage guys that you'd played alongside. And he tried to revolutionise Liverpool the same way he had at us but they were different situations. Easy to say now and it was the only way, and successful way, he'd managed.
 
Ronnie Moran was Souness assistant manager at Liverpool. Hard question to answer would Souness and Smith be a success at Liverpool
 
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Taki said:
Walter might have helped but I think the problems at Liverpool were so big and they'd been so successful for so long that they weren't open to change. Also difficult to manage guys that you'd played alongside. And he tried to revolutionise Liverpool the same way he had at us but they were different situations. Easy to say now and it was the only way, and successful way, he'd managed.
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We may not care to admit it, but managing Liverpool was a step up from Rangers on many levels and with an ageing side to recycle it's probably the case that they'd simply reached the end of an era with the Premiership only a year or so away and a rejuvinated Man U just about to go stellar.

It also begs the question, if Walter had gone to Liverpool with Souness who would we have sought to replace him / them?

I seem to remember we were linked with Jupp Heynckes.
 
Teddy bear said:
Liverpool were on the way down regardless
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As this poster says, Liverpool were in decline.

Hillsborough and the immediate effects of it ran deep and Dalglish was very loyal to the players who were at the club at the time, with an outcome that some were still at Liverpool in 1991 when they could & should have left.

Souness inherited an aging squad of players who he couldn't move on, and some of who didn’t respond to the shock & awe way that Souness operated in at the time.

Phil Thomson was around the club, was part of the fabric of the club and held a deep grudge as well so Souness was walking into some situations that were always likely to make life difficult for him. The pull of Liverpool and the antagonism he was facing in Scotland combined to give him a blind spot on it though.

I don’t think Smith coming would have made an enormous amount of difference to be honest.
 
HandsomeHead said:
We may not care to admit it, but managing Liverpool was a step up from Rangers on many levels and with an ageing side to recycle it's probably the case that they'd simply reached the end of an era with the Premiership only a year or so away and a rejuvinated Man U just about to go stellar.

It also begs the question, if Walter had gone to Liverpool with Souness who would we have sought to replace him / them?

I seem to remember we were linked with Jupp Heynckes.
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Franz Beckenbauer and Kenny Dalglish were the two I remember.

The English league was a tougher league and Liverpool were in a different situation. They had 20 years of success behind them and were in no place for a disruptor or to hear they needed to do things differently. We'd went nearly 10 years without a title and would have done anything Souness wanted. He needed to take a breath and buy himself some time and consider the situation at Liverpool. I also think he lost a huge amount of goodwill over the association with The Sun and even Walter couldn't have fixed that.
 
huistrasleftpeg said:
Think there was a little bit more to it than that. Everton from top to bottom were a shot show at that time.
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People forever rush in to defend Walter from any criticism on here, but a lot of it is actually deserved.

It's often pointed out that he had a comparatively small net spend at Everton and suffered from having the chairman sell off players, notably big Dunc, behind his back, but he still blew way more in his time at Goodison that he ever spent at Rangers yet never had them where they really should have expected to be.

Ultimately it didn't work out for him down there, but that doesn't devalue his success at Rangers.
 
One of Souness's problems at Liverpool was that he spunked a fortune on poor quality signings.
 
HandsomeHead said:
People forever rush in to defend Walter from any criticism on here, but a lot of it is actually deserved.

It's often pointed out that he had a comparatively small net spend at Everton and suffered from having the chairman sell off players, notably big Dunc, behind his back, but he still blew way more in his time at Goodison that he ever spent at Rangers yet never had them where they really should have expected to be.

Ultimately it didn't work out for him down there, but that doesn't devalue his success at Rangers.
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I’m sure Walter must have had an inkling what he was getting himself into, but if think he made some decent signings for Everton (Graveson, Watson, Unsworth, Alexandersson etc.), and admittedly a few turkeys like Nyarko.

Can’t be said he was successful, but to say he bombed out is harsh especially considering the shenanigans with Big Dunc getting sold behind his back.

Imagine if Alfie was sold behind the gaffers back?
 
RabSpackman said:
As this poster says, Liverpool were in decline.

Hillsborough and the immediate effects of it ran deep and Dalglish was very loyal to the players who were at the club at the time, with an outcome that some were still at Liverpool in 1991 when they could & should have left.

Souness inherited an aging squad of players who he couldn't move on, and some of who didn’t respond to the shock & awe way that Souness operated in at the time.

Phil Thomson was around the club, was part of the fabric of the club and held a deep grudge as well so Souness was walking into some situations that were always likely to make life difficult for him. The pull of Liverpool and the antagonism he was facing in Scotland combined to give him a blind spot on it though.

I don’t think Smith coming would have made an enormous amount of difference to be honest.
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I think you’re probably correct as Souness would likely have persisted with the revolutionary approach that worked so well at Ibrox regardless of who he had as his no.2, but it’s certainly true that after leaving Rangers he never managed anything like the same success elsewhere and it’s quite possible that was down to never having anyone as adept as Walter as his right hand man.
 
Shengus Malengus said:
Walter that bombed at Everton?
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That isn't fair.

Duncan ferguson was sold behind his back, he literally had no idea he was away until he bumped into Ferguson on a staircase and he said his goodbyes.

Walter was told he would have huge transfer funds and it was all lies, every player that excelled was sold, his job was to balance the books, he did not bomb by any stretch, it was an impossible task.

If Barcelona were run like Everton were back then then any manager would "bomb" their as well .
 
Souness did however give Robbie Fowler and Steve Mcmanaman a chance as young players despite some of the duds he signed.
 
bluewonder said:
Souness did however give Robbie Fowler and Steve Mcmanaman a chance as young players despite some of the duds he signed.
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Jamie Redknapp as well. He actually laid some decent foundations for later but the results they had in his time derailed any view of the future... Liverpool were declining just as Manchester United were on the rise - he was never going to last long.
 
HandsomeHead said:
Was watching a clip of him talking about his time there with some regret and it got me thinking would it have been a different story with Smith alongside him?

It's often been said that Walter was the football brains behind Souness's success at Ibrox so could he have helped guide Liverpool to more glory than they managed without him, or was it always simply the end of an era at Anfield regardless of managerial personnel?
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I think Souness made the mistake of trying to turn things around at Anfield too quickly.
It had worked at Ibrox, but England was a different animal.

The reason Souness felt he needed to change things so quickly was that in Europe the three foreigner rule meant that Liverpool needed more English born players.
This led to Souness moving perfectly good players on and bringing in 'untested at Liverpool level' players whom he could at least select in Europe.

This was his main mistake, and he should have ignored Europe and the new rule whilst he first consolidated Liverpool's position in England.
However, he was a man in a hurry and he never left Rangers to just win domestically, he wanted to win the big one.

Souness was a fine manager and his domestic record overall at the clubs he managed was ok, bearing in mind that most managers in football win fckall no matter where they go.
 
Dado's Bandage said:
He didn’t but don’t let the truth get in the way of a good slight at one of the most important people in our club’s history.
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And the guy that should have won us tiar with a £15m pre season spend up against a rank rotten celtc.(equivalent to £26m today. Think about that.)

A man who chose Gordon Durie over Ally McCoist to get the goals in the second half of that season.
A monumental blunder of epic proportions.
Durie scored in 2 games all season.

Forgive me if I don't share your love for Walter.
 
Shengus Malengus said:
And the guy that should have won us tiar with a £15m pre season spend up against a rank rotten celtc.(equivalent to £26m today. Think about that.)

A man who chose Gordon Durie over Ally McCoist to get the goals in the second half of that season.
A monumental blunder of epic proportions.
Durie scored in 2 games all season.

Forgive me if I don't share your love for Walter.
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I get it.

All he did was win 9iar for us
Humiliate the English champions
On the verge of the CL final
Cup wins and Trebles

Then come back when the club was busy finishing 3rd in the league to lead us to 3iar while reaching a European final all while the club was being strangled by the bank

I get it, why would anyone want to give the man any credit.

I mean what the actual f*ck?
 
Wade Wilson said:
I get it.

All he did was win 9iar for us
Humiliate the English champions
On the verge of the CL final
Cup wins and Trebles

Then come back when the club was busy finishing 3rd in the league to lead us to 3iar while reaching a European final all while the club was being strangled by the bank

I get it, why would anyone want to give the man any credit.

I mean what the actual f*ck?
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I didn’t bother replying as would no doubt have seen the thread locked. Not worth it.
 
Robert Marshall said:
Alex Ferguson won MOTY, on his acceptance speech he said Walter Smith should have won it as it was a miracle he kept Everton in the top division with everything that was happening at Everton.
I think we would all agree AF would be a better judge than anyone on here, excluding myself of course
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What year was it Walter went to United as his #2?
 
Shengus Malengus said:
Walter that bombed at Everton?
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Just about shows your ignorance of WS time at Everton really.
I won’t waste my time explaining why to you but suffice to say he is still highly thought of at the club for the miracle he worked behind the scenes at Everton not only once but twice.
 
RabSpackman said:
As this poster says, Liverpool were in decline.

Hillsborough and the immediate effects of it ran deep and Dalglish was very loyal to the players who were at the club at the time, with an outcome that some were still at Liverpool in 1991 when they could & should have left.

Souness inherited an aging squad of players who he couldn't move on, and some of who didn’t respond to the shock & awe way that Souness operated in at the time.

Phil Thomson was around the club, was part of the fabric of the club and held a deep grudge as well so Souness was walking into some situations that were always likely to make life difficult for him. The pull of Liverpool and the antagonism he was facing in Scotland combined to give him a blind spot on it though.

I don’t think Smith coming would have made an enormous amount of difference to be honest.
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Man U were on the rise too and quickly became light years ahead of Liverpool financially. Few years later you have Blackburn as the first sugar daddy club as well.
 
Shengus Malengus said:
No need to explain.
I'll take the word of Everton fans.

Walter Smith | Everton Managers

www.toffeeweb.com www.toffeeweb.com
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That’s absolutely fine and your right to do so mate. But it doesn’t change the fact both yourself and the fans have no idea what went on. Maybe if the truth was to come what really happened then they may think a bit differently.
Correctly like most fans they base it in what they are watching. Unfortunately for those maybe a wee bit closer to the action what was happening on the park was insignificant to what they faced off it.
So probably best we agree to disagree mate.
 
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