(You can not make it up) Matthew Lindsay: Celtic’s latest UEFA fine shows that strict liability is an ass

indianabluenose

Well-Known Member

THE list of offences committed by Celtic supporters during European matches in the past decade or so is a lengthy and damning one now.

The €12,500 (£11,013) fine which the Parkhead club were hit with by UEFA on Friday for the conduct of their fans in the Europa League play-off match against AIK in Stockholm last month was just the latest in a long line of punishments which have been meted out.

They have been repeatedly disciplined for a variety of their followers’ misdemeanours; displaying illicit banners, pro-IRA chanting, fighting, blocking stairways, invading the pitch and attempting to attack a player and, as was the case in Sweden, setting off flares and throwing objects. It was the 17th time since 2007 they have been reprimanded.

It has been impossible to defend the imbecilic actions of an element who follow the Scottish champions at times and hard to argue with the repercussions.
Yet, this particular rap is harsh and raises serious questions about the fairness and effectiveness of strict liability, which holds clubs responsible for how their fans behave regardless of the measures which they have taken to prevent trouble beforehand and to identify the culprits afterwards.

There has been widespread scepticism expressed about Celtic’s claim that supporters of Hammerby, AIK’s fierce local rivals, infiltrated their travelling supporters and were responsible for the unrest which flared in the stands at the Friends Arena.
The fights which broke out between baton-wielding police and spectators at half-time took place just behind a Green Brigade banner. Were no bona fide fans at all involved in the scuffles? Had they all nipped away to get their pies and Bovrils when it all kicked off? It seems highly unlikely given their track record.
That said, the away team had returned 1,000 of their 2,500 ticket allocation to their hosts in the build-up to the second leg tie. Their opponents were looking to attract a record European attendance. There would appear, then, to have been no shortage of briefs freely available to anyone, no matter what their allegiance, who wanted one. It is entirely plausible to suggest that Hammerby hooligans intent on causing disorder got in.

Indeed, one Celtic fan of my acquaintance, who had taken his teenage son to see his first European away game in Solna, this week confirmed to me there were several locals in their section of the stadium. The photographs of the clashes, one of which is shown above, back him and his club up. Have any of the individuals pictured ever been spotted in the East End. Not by me.
Did the control, ethics and disciplinary body of UEFA take that into account when they were ruling on the case on Thursday? In this instance, it does seem as if the Glasgow club have been rather severely dealt with. Aleksander Ceferin, the governing body’s president, and his staff need to take a serious look at the entire process.
Those who are against the introduction of strict liability in Scottish football have long claimed that it is far too open to abuse. What is to stop a particularly determined yob, they say, going to a rival club’s game, smuggling in a pyrotechnic and then igniting it in a deliberate attempt to get them into bother with the authorities?
Those who want to see more done to stamp out crowd disturbances in general and sectarian singing specifically in this country have suggested a range of sanctions including fines, shutting down stands and even docking points.

But there is invariably an outcry, not to mention a mass outbreak of paranoia, whenever a player is cited retrospectively by the SFA compliance officer for a foul which a referee had failed to spot or punish appropriately at the time and then banned at the moment. What would happen if, for instance, Rangers were forced to play a game behind closed doors? The game here would go into meltdown.
What happened in Stockholm and the consequences of it shows that strict liability would be beset by difficulties, could possibly even be unworkable, in the unlikely event that it, or something like it, ever got the go-ahead here.
My own view is that far more needs to be done than is currently the case to address what is an escalating and concerning issue. It is difficult to point the finger elsewhere when thousands of fans belt out bigoted chants. It is worth toughening up the existing rules to see if there any significant improvement. There is strong evidence that it works.
Rangers have fallen foul of strict liability legislation twice this season – for “racist behaviour” in their Europa League qualifiers against St Joseph’s at home in July and Legia Warsaw away last month – and been forced to close off sections of Ibrox in their home meetings with Legia and Feyenoord.
There have been inevitable cries about the injustice of it all and protestations of innocence –The Union Bears, the ultras group who were among those banished from the Warsaw match, accused the club of treating them with contempt and making them scapegoats. It was sooooo unfair!

However, the Group G match against Feyenoord on Thursday evening, as far as I could hear from my vantage point in the press gantry at least, passed off without the air being polluted by any sectarian bile.
Would that have be the case in an Old Firm match if Rangers had been hammered by the SFA for belting out The Billy Boys? It would be quite an achievement. It isn’t an easy thing to fix.
Still, it is definitely worth the SFA’s member clubs and the SPFL doing more than shrugging their shoulders and trotting out tired platitudes about it being a societal problem which Scottish football can do nothing about.
 
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That’s unfknbelievable. When I started to read it I actually thought they were going to say celtics fine was shockingly low and after all they trouble they have caused they should be getting a stadium closure. How niave I am.

When you see what other clubs are fined for same offences, flares in comparison they get let off extremely lightly and no one seemed to see them hitting Cluj players with objects , apparently.
It was a shite polishing article by Mathew but he still couldn’t help himself from having a dig.
 
That does suggest that he does know every single Ceptic fan!!
Even UEFA saw through the Hammerby excuse,
They know that more punishments are coming their way for their behavior in Europe this season and are sickened we have sorted ourselves out.
It will be them done for racist/sectarian singing next. They don’t want that!
 
Mathew, have you forgotten ShitySean already.
The tim who handcuffed himself to the goalpost at Ibrox.
The tims fight everywhere they go and the MSM has to drag Rangers fans into it for farting.
Last Thursday there were countless numbers of tims in the away corner and it was probably one of them who got arrested. Rangers supporters don't do that, it's not what makes us great fans.
Your team are probably the most charged in Europe but never had anything worse than a small fine. Rangers fans sing a song and it cost us close to €250,000.
You want the SFA to fine Rangers or close a stand?
You must be very scared, very, very scared, Mathew.
 
I’ll bow to your personal knowledge, strange then that he professes to be able to identify that mhob by their looks and also defend that odious, and serial liars club?

Read the article again: he doesn't spare them. The first 3 paragraphs get into their ribs.

I don't agree with his view that the UEFA punishment was excessive, and clearly he's taking the piss when he talks about identifying Sellik fans, but ML is not a tim. IIRC, he's an ICT man.
 
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Endanger lives by setting off pyrotechnics and fighting with stewards & cops gets you a £12,000 fine but singing the word 19th Century Terrorist (not condoning its use) costs us the best part of 90 grand and we then get hit with the same again before being given the chance to rectify it.

No wonder people think it’s soooo unfair.
 
Mathew, have you forgotten ShitySean already.
The tim who handcuffed himself to the goalpost at Ibrox.
The tims fight everywhere they go and the MSM has to drag Rangers fans into it for farting.
Last Thursday there were countless numbers of tims in the away corner and it was probably one of them who got arrested. Rangers supporters don't do that, it's not what makes us great fans.
Your team are probably the most charged in Europe but never had anything worse than a small fine. Rangers fans sing a song and it cost us close to €250,000.
You want the SFA to fine Rangers or close a stand?
You must be very scared, very, very scared, Mathew.
No probably about it mate, he was dragged out wearing a Celtic top.
 
He is of course, a fud.

But he does raise legitimate concerns as to why strict liability would not work in this country.
Their levels of obsession is such that a couple buying tickets and causing trouble at Ibrox couldn’t be ruled out.
Like them being in amongst Feyenoord supporters?

Edit: I guess it’s been mentioned!
 
That’s unfknbelievable. When I started to read it I actually thought they were going to say celtics fine was shockingly low and after all they trouble they have caused they should be getting a stadium closure. How niave I am.
I thought he was going to say something along the lines of strictly liability wont work as for the second time in a European game at Ibrox a Celtic supporter was caught instigating trouble to try and get rangers into trouble....how naive of me
 
Endanger lives by setting off pyrotechnics and fighting with stewards & cops gets you a £12,000 fine but singing the word 19th Century Terrorist (not condoning its use) costs us the best part of 90 grand and we then get hit with the same again before being given the chance to rectify it.

No wonder people think it’s soooo unfair.

And don't forget they call ,and consider themselves 19th Century Terrorists
 
Now let’s be fair to the bold journoliste

Majority of the travelling fans are probably on a register that he can easily check so maybe he did see every one their
 
So his Sellic supporting pal says he saw some locals in the crowd, therefore we now know they must have acted alone? Because Sellik supporters would never set off pyrotechnics? And never mix with ultras from other clubs? How many errors can you squeeze into the premise for your whole article. Boggles the mind.
 
I'm assuming it was a Hammarby fan who ran on to the pitch to attack Dida or Mbappe.Maybe it was Hammarby fans who threw a bottle on the park against Rapid Vienna in the 80s that resulted in a rematch at Old Trafford.
Probably Hammarby fans that threw bananas at Mark Walters as well now I think about it.
It's embarrassing now the way the media cover up for that mob.

PS it was probably a Hammarby youth coach that abused children at Parkhead as well
 
Hang on, 17 guilty offences in 12 years - considering how many games they’ve actually played in UEFA competition is that time and a £12.5k fine now is “harsh”?

Pack up, go home, %^*& this.
They have 17 previous convictions from UEFA, so now it’s “ not me guv, it was him over there”
 
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