Young Mgrs

Firthview Blue

Well-Known Member
After what I have seen with Stevie G and Frankie Lampard to an extent I struggle to see what Hibs and Hearts take some no marks (maybe a bit harsh on Hibs).
When Stevie G finally leaves and he will leave we all know that I would be quite happy to take a young proffessionall player manager type as opposed to some 60 yr old experienced manager
I am surprised why Paul Scholes has not been given a chance as I always thought he would managerial type
 
It's a massive risk though and one which many small clubs can't afford to take a lot of the time. It works out for some and not for others.

Granted it was in different circumstance but Gary Neville will probably never manage again after his brief spell.

Just because your were a massive name in football doesn't automatically mean that your going to make it in management.
 
Gerrard was a calculated risk by King and it has paid off in every area. Commercially it has been a huge success with more eyes on our club and better deals with our partners. Team wise it has allowed us to bring in players who would not have considered us beforehand and on the park, Gerrard has put together a winning system which is easy on the eye and is focused on attacking opposition and being relentless. King has allowed Gerrard to surround himself with the best of the best coaches, physicians and people whom he has built up a relationship over his years in football. It was a perfect storm. We were right for Steven and Steven was right for us. I doubt very much if we will take another risk as large as this when we come to appoint our next manager.

As for Paul Scholes Firthview Blue - I totally agree. I thought he would make a great manager and would have been above the likes of Giggs in my list of manager candidates. Who knows what he might do in the future - but he always struck me as a man who loved to play, but struggled with engaging with football life when his playing career finished.
 
After what I have seen with Stevie G and Frankie Lampard to an extent I struggle to see what Hibs and Hearts take some no marks (maybe a bit harsh on Hibs).
When Stevie G finally leaves and he will leave we all know that I would be quite happy to take a young proffessionall player manager type as opposed to some 60 yr old experienced manager
I am surprised why Paul Scholes has not been given a chance as I always thought he would managerial type

Scholes was at Oldham and had to chuck it but never done much of note (albeit he was up against terrible conditions). Scholes has a brilliant footballing brain but comes across very quiet and not your leader type.

I'm all for young managers if they have been part of the elite side of the game for a long period such as Gerrard, it's less of a gamble than a relatively unknown.
 
Didn't Scholes get a chance then chuck it very early?

There's as many examples of young managers failing as there is succeeding. Like anything else, luck plays a huge part, and the circumstances at a club at any given time will usually dictate success. It's about far more than the manager.
 
Its worked well for Gerrard because of the management team he has brought in behind him. The likes of Gary Mac, Beale and Culshaw have been magnificent appointments.
 
SG will have an important say in choosing his successor, unless he leaves in unforeseen circumstances. However, I sincerely hope he is with us for 5 years at least. No team can really hope for more than that these days but annual changes are no use. Cant see a Liverpool vacancy arising for a few years yet thankfully and even then, would he take a club possibly past its peak ?
 
Gerrard is doing very well at the moment, but that doesn't mean people that had reservations were idiots.

A manager with a track record gives you a good idea of what you're getting, but a new manager is a gamble.
 
Its worked well for Gerrard because of the management team he has brought in behind him. The likes of Gary Mac, Beale and Culshaw have been magnificent appointments.
this is definitely the reason, good team with respect for each other as well as good communication between each of the coaching team
 
For the most part, coaching experience and a bit of a track record are more important than getting a big name in.

We're lucky in that Gerrard seems to have a strong sense of what he's looking for and knows when he sees it, is a decisive judge of character and a very good communicator.

That doesn't mean a different character, like Wayne Rooney for example, is destined to succeed in the same role.
 
Didn't Scholes get a chance then chuck it very early?

There's as many examples of young managers failing as there is succeeding. Like anything else, luck plays a huge part, and the circumstances at a club at any given time will usually dictate success. It's about far more than the manager.
He did,Oldham I think.
 
You still beed to have the right character and mentality for it. Scholes was a great player but would be an waful manager.
 
Management seems to be a young man's game nowadays. The only old manager I can immediately think of who is still cutting it at the top level is Ancelotti? (not sure if Everton are considerd top level, but Napoli certainly were!)

Changing player attitudes plays a part in this, I suspect.
 
Part of the problem I think with ex-players like Scholes trying to be managers is their lack of communication skills. Finding it difficult to get their ideas across and players left scratching their heads and losing confidence in their coach. Neville and Adams are two recent examples.
 
Its interesting on peoples interpretation of a "young manager"
Gerrard is seen as a young manager, he is 40 in a couple of months.
He is inexperienced a as a manager but I wouldnt say young, most folk are approaching mid way through their working life by 40
 
A manager with a track record gives you a good idea of what you're getting, but a new manager is a gamble.
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Why do so many clubs appoint managers with lengthy records of failure then? Unless they’ve got a good reputation for youth development or keeping within budgets or good contacts.
 
scholes is more your quietly effective guy and does not strike me as a leader with the best man management skills - SG & FL are different gravy in that dept
 
Gerrard is making a success of it because of his character and drive. He's putting the effort in and doesn't appear to have the ego ex-players of his calibre often have.

It's going to be very difficult to find another ex-player with the same drive and determination to succeed as Gerrard. His target is the Liverpool job and he knows he needs to make a success of his time at Rangers.
 
There's young manager, and consummate professional like Stevie G. Any manager of any age is a risk.
 
Why do so many clubs appoint managers with lengthy records of failure then? Unless they’ve got a good reputation for youth development or keeping within budgets or good contacts.
I think even failing, but not too badly, at the top level is pretty difficult to do. Celtic gambling on John Barnes is an example of someone doing a worse job than you'd think possible at a club that size.

Established managers that fail spectacularly can struggle to find work at a similar level.
 
Gerrard is doing very well at the moment, but that doesn't mean people that had reservations were idiots.

A manager with a track record gives you a good idea of what you're getting, but a new manager is a gamble.

Not idiots course not but some of the comments at the time were embarrassing.

It makes no sense was the one i remember seeing all the time. We know best it makes no sense over and over and over.

It made plenty of sense to me and to most others. Everything about Gerrard suggested he could and would be a really good manager, his career being a captain and leader, his attitude and the way he deals with pressure the media etc. It was clear he wouldnt be messed around players would respect him and play for him.

Your point about getting an idea of what a boss with experience can do is probably part of the reason Stevie G was given his chance. We obviously looked at the scottish managers here and down south that would fancy the job and thought thats not going to be good enough need to something pretty special. I also think we wanted Gerrard in because of the battle with our enemies at sfa/celtic so that theres plenty of coverage down south if the truth comes out about corruption or even the dishonesty thats a big part of refereeing up here.
 
Management seems to be a young man's game nowadays. The only old manager I can immediately think of who is still cutting it at the top level is Ancelotti? (not sure if Everton are considerd top level, but Napoli certainly were!)

Changing player attitudes plays a part in this, I suspect.

Not entirely sure it’s a young mans game just yet, Barcelona and Juventus both have managers older than Ancelotti!
 
Its interesting on peoples interpretation of a "young manager"
Gerrard is seen as a young manager, he is 40 in a couple of months.
He is inexperienced a as a manager but I wouldnt say young, most folk are approaching mid way through their working life by 40

I think he is young in terms of football management. You don't get too many managers starting out under the age of 35 in the top leagues in Europe. I would suspect most managers begin management after having had a football career (thus 35+) and those who didn't, come into the role from other avenues - i.e. coaching - so still being in his 30's I think qualifies him as a young manager. It's relative to his field. Football jobs are not like normal jobs.

Looking at top jobs across England, Spain, Italy and Germany. I've split experience into new manager, middling and experienced based on my perception of the number of clubs they have managed/tenure managing first 11.

England:
Everton - Carlo Ancelotti - 60 - experienced
Tottenham Hotspur - Jose Mourinho - 56 - experienced
Liverpool - Jurgen Klopp - 52 - experienced
Manchester City - Pep Guardiola - 49 - experienced
Manchester United - Ole Gunanr Solskjaer - 46 - middling
Chelsea - Frank Lampard - 41 - new manager
Arsenal - Mikel Arteta - 37 - new manager

Spain:
Barcelona - Quique Setien - 61 - experienced
Sevilla - Julen Lopetegui - 53 - experienced
Atltetico Madrid - Diego Simeone - 49 - experienced
Real Madrid - Zinedine Zidane - 47 - middling
Valencia - Albert Celades - 44 - new manager

Italy:
Juventus - Maurizzo Sarri - 61 - experienced
AC Milan - Stefano Pioli - 54 - experienced
Internazionale - Antonia Conte - 50 - experienced
Roma - Paulo Fonseca - 46 - experienced
Lazio - Simone Inzaghi - 43 - middling
Napoli - Gennaro Gattuso - 42 - middling

Germany:
Borussia Dortmund - Lucien Favre - 62 - experienced
Bayern Munich - Hans-Dieter Flick - 54 - experienced
Schalke 04 - David Wagner - 48 - middling
Borussia Monchengladbach - Marco Rose - 43 - middling
RB Leipzig - Julian Nagelsmann - 32 - middling

Excluding Nagelsmann, who is an outlier and I would say unique example, managers of the top teams across the best 4 leagues range in age from late 30's to early 60's. Thus, at 39, Gerrard is a relatively young manager.

Also believe Gerrard is 3rd youngest manager in SPFL behind Jim Goodwin (38) and Stewart Kettlewell (35) with most in mid-late 40's and a couple are 56.
 
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I think he is young in terms of football management. You don't get too many managers starting out under the age of 35 in the top leagues in Europe. I would suspect most managers begin management after having had a football career (thus 35+) and those who didn't, come into the role from other avenues - i.e. coaching - so still being in his 30's I think qualifies him as a young manager. It's relative to his field. Football jobs are not like normal jobs.

Looking at top jobs across England, Spain, Italy and Germany. I've split experience into new manager, middling and experienced based on my perception of the number of clubs they have managed/tenure managing first 11.

England:
Everton - Carlo Ancelotti - 60 - experienced
Tottenham Hotspur - Jose Mourinho - 56 - experienced
Liverpool - Jurgen Klopp - 52 - experienced
Manchester City - Pep Guardiola - 49 - experienced
Manchester United - Ole Gunanr Solskjaer - 46 - middling
Chelsea - Frank Lampard - 41 - new manager
Arsenal - Mikel Arteta - 37 - new manager

Spain:
Barcelona - Quique Setien - 61 - experienced
Sevilla - Julen Lopetegui - 53 - experienced
Atltetico Madrid - Diego Simeone - 49 - experienced
Real Madrid - Zinedine Zidane - 47 - middling
Valencia - Albert Celades - 44 - new manager

Italy:
Juventus - Maurizzo Sarri - 61 - experienced
AC Milan - Stefano Pioli - 54 - experienced
Internazionale - Antonia Conte - 50 - experienced
Roma - Paulo Fonseca - 46 - experienced
Lazio - Simone Inzaghi - 43 - middling
Napoli - Gennaro Gattuso - 42 - middling

Germany:
Borussia Dortmund - Lucien Favre - 62 - experienced
Bayern Munich - Hans-Dieter Flick - 54 - experienced
Schalke 04 - David Wagner - 48 - middling
Borussia Monchengladbach - Marco Rose - 43 - middling
RB Leipzig - Julian Nagelsmann - 32 - middling

Excluding Nagelsmann, who is an outlier and I would say unique example, managers of the top teams across the best 4 leagues range in age from late 30's to early 60's. Thus, at 39, Gerrard is a relatively young manager.

Also believe Gerrard is 3rd youngest manager in SPFL behind Jim Goodwin (38) and Stewart Kettlewell (35) with most in mid-late 40's and a couple are 56.
Think you need to look at more than age. Zidane for instance, has won La Liga, numerous cups and 3 Champions Leagues as manager of one of the world's biggest clubs. Really don't think he can be described as 'middling' in terms of experience.
 
Think you need to look at more than age. Zidane for instance, has won La Liga, numerous cups and 3 Champions Leagues as manager of one of the world's biggest clubs. Really don't think he can be described as 'middling' in terms of experience.

Prior to rejoining Madrid, he spent under 2 and a half years managing a team. That's not a lot of mangement experience. He has around 3 years total experience managing a football team, all at the one club. That's not an experienced manager. Successful yes, but not experienced.

If Gerrard wins the league and Scottish cup this year he will be successful, but not experienced. He has said himself he continues to make mistakes and is still learning.
 
I get your point, when we were away you could have taken a boy out the school, stuck him in the Celtic dugout and he would have been successful with them.
 
Players are taking their coaching courses earlier now to make sure when the do retire they have majority of the courses required there and then. 10 - 20 years ago players stopped then started their badges which is the difference I would say.
 
After what I have seen with Stevie G and Frankie Lampard to an extent I struggle to see what Hibs and Hearts take some no marks (maybe a bit harsh on Hibs).
When Stevie G finally leaves and he will leave we all know that I would be quite happy to take a young proffessionall player manager type as opposed to some 60 yr old experienced manager
I am surprised why Paul Scholes has not been given a chance as I always thought he would managerial type
The managers of Hibs and Hearts are 43 and 45, respectively; not exactly ancient and certainly not that much older than Stevie G.
 
Players are taking their coaching courses earlier now to make sure when the do retire they have majority of the courses required there and then. 10 - 20 years ago players stopped then started their badges which is the difference I would say.

I think this certainly plays a part in it. A lot more forward planning is done in terms of future roles, and the availability of the training has probably increased.
 
Magyars?
Muggers?

Death to text speak.

I thought text speak was banned or frowned upon on this board. I assume this has been relaxed. Pity. Any manager who is young and untried is always a risk, for every Gerrard there are 2 or more Cathro's out there. But any more risky than tried and proven failures that go to hibs et al, probably not. Football is the only profession where no matter how much you fail, it never stops the next offer coming in for some reason.
 
Prior to rejoining Madrid, he spent under 2 and a half years managing a team. That's not a lot of mangement experience. He has around 3 years total experience managing a football team, all at the one club. That's not an experienced manager. Successful yes, but not experienced.

If Gerrard wins the league and Scottish cup this year he will be successful, but not experienced. He has said himself he continues to make mistakes and is still learning.
Depends how you define experience I suppose. You could argue he's gained far more experience on a number of levels in a comparatively short period of time, than many managers will have done over a much longer period - an entire career in some cases. I think 'experience' goes beyond age or longevity. Clubs with ambitions to win silverware for instance, may be more likely drawn to a manager with the experience of guiding teams to cup finals, league wins and European glory, than a moderately successful older manager, with many more years under his belt. Just an opinion.
 
There are exceptions when it comes to Ed players no matter how talented becoming Managers and we’ve been so lucky to get Stevie G and he has been exceptional in every manner for us and will definitely win silverware with us and I believe he’ll do that this year.
 
Alex Neil would probably fall into the ‘young manager’ category, (as far as a recall) he had some success in getting relatively poor players to gel and work hard for him and never seemed to suffer the lack of respect that Cathro suffered at Hearts, so it can be done buts it’s a tough gig getting players of a similar age or possibly older than the new ‘boss’ to respect him.
 
Its worked well for Gerrard because of the management team he has brought in behind him. The likes of Gary Mac, Beale and Culshaw have been magnificent appointments.
This is key for young managers. Surround themselves with the right team.
 
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