Youth Academy value for money or not ?

I’m very much on the fence with the youth academy. I don’t think we get the return in what we invest into it. Maybe we would be better to look back into history where Rangers would generally be the big club that got the best from the teams around us.

that said maybe it is different times. I do think though for our youth set up to work we need to get players loaned out to give them opportunities playing men’s football, maybe even experiencing different leagues and countries. They may then come back better players ready for the first team or at the least have caught the eye to give us a transfer fee from another club. We need that income to be a continual thing.

I also think we need to loan guys out as there is that reticence to involve a young guy as there is so much at stake. We have nit really had a young guy come in and stake a claim at a young age for a wee while . People in the thread mention guys like Billy Gilmour, would he have been given the chance to play week in week out? Just now he is better than most players in the Scottish league

It would be magic If we could have a generation of players like Man United did just all come through at the same time and be guys would be worth millions if we were to sell them on
 
Really liked your post, but I think we signed Rossiter knowing about the injury issues.

He wouldn't have been in our stratosphere otherwise.
I agree. I didn’t think it strange Liverpool let him go. If we didn’t know there was an issue then questions have to be asked.
In a wider sense very good players don’t tend to come to Scotland unless there are some mitigating circumstances.
 
Our approach to develop our young guys has undergone significant changes over the past couple of years. The reconstruction proposal which would have enabled our under 20’s to play in the league structure is an indication that the management are looking for ways to progress the younger blokes and appointing Kevin Thomson as reserve team manager underlines this. Yes, the youth system was less than adequate for too long but this seems to have been changed for the better.
 
I'm slightly confused - 12 years of what?
I cannot remember when it opened around 2000 ?, so we had a good 12 years of it before the spivs came in and a couple of years with SG.
So all i am getting at its had a run of approx 12 -14 years without producing much.
And thats writing off the bad years
 
I cannot remember when it opened around 2000 ?, so we had a good 12 years of it before the spivs came in and a couple of years with SG.
So all i am getting at its had a run of approx 12 -14 years without producing much.
And thats writing off the bad years

We've done ok. McGregor, Hutton, Smith, Burke, Adam, Stephen Hughes, Danny Wilson to a lesser extent, they all played a decent amount of games and contributed to league wins (possibly Smith aside?).

Fleck didn't do as well as we hoped, but he also got over 50 appearances in his time.

Gregg Wylde played a fair bit in a league winning team.

It's not been that bad in my opinion.
 
Nothing wrong with having a youth system it's how it's used that matters. We pick from more or less the same pool of talent as the tramps and they've brought through some good players in recent times. That tells me it's about the coaching or the staff and not the actual system in place. Our youngsters just now have done excellent the last two years against some of the bigger teams youth setups it's just about getting them to the next level now.
 
Until now, the Academy has near enough been a waste of time for us in the grand scheme of things. I do however, have hope that we now have some genuine talent in the younger age groups.
 
It doesn’t produce results so what’s the point ??

Hopefully with all this reconstruction it will start to bear fruit but we have been hearing this for 5 years .
It HASN't produced results because it was neglected for so bloody long, we're going way back to the 9 and row years unfortunately but far more extreme through the banter years We had a massive gap in quality right down the ages. In the next few years the hard work that has been done recently will start to show and we will hopefully have a nice stream of youth ready to step in. At that time it will be well worth it.

But it takes time.
 
Until now, the Academy has near enough been a waste of time for us in the grand scheme of things. I do however, have hope that we now have some genuine talent in the younger age groups.
The hope is only a dream because it's what we get told by academy management ,if a tell you enough times that I am as good a footballer as messi you will start to believe me but in the grand scheme of things it's bullshit cos I'm rotten at football ,so what I'm saying is they have told us for years we have special talents but reality is they're all going to leave because we don't trust them that's the facts or SG doesn't rate them and if that's the case why they been telling us they're all so special ,because we buy it it's bullshit absolute worthless exercise.IMO
 
Our academy is not dry it's absolutely flooded but let's look at it Stephen Kelly is 21 nearly and still considered as to young or not ready but Aaron hickey at hearts is 18 and played 50 games for Hearts this is a trend we continue to use it's not good enough for the young men trying to make a living in the game ,I listen on here all the time it's just excuse after excuse the pressure on any manager is too much to consider youths ,Bin it.
Useless comparison, Aaron Hickey at 18, isn't good enough for Rangers. I don't think he ever will be. Or are you saying that if a young player is good enough for Hearts then they should be good enough for Rangers just because? We have a higher level of requirement and it will take players longer to achieve that. We can't just throw in players who are not ready, we are trying to win trophies. When young players do get to the level that they are able to contribute more, they will play more, simple as that.
 
It HASN't produced results because it was neglected for so bloody long, we're going way back to the 9 and row years unfortunately but far more extreme through the banter years We had a massive gap in quality right down the ages. In the next few years the hard work that has been done recently will start to show and we will hopefully have a nice stream of youth ready to step in. At that time it will be well worth it.

But it takes time.
You say it was neglected but all those years ago is when we did have few players coming out of academy it's in past 10-15 virtually nothing.so not having your argument sorry I think we need answers from someone on this matter, it's up too the coaches and staff to produce and if not fire them any other walk of life you lose your job if you under perform.how can we win most academy fixtures right up too 18s but then produce nothing doesn't make sense sorry.
 
So was hickey more ready than Kelly..4 year age difference?
Hickey more ready for Hearts than Kelly for Rangers, yes.
Would Kelly be ready for Hearts, yes.
Are either ready to be starters for Rangers, no.

You do understand that the level to be successful for Rangers is much higher than being relegation cannon fodder with little pressure for fukcing Hearts? Not to mention that Hickey has been shite in quite a lot of games, and that would not be accepted at all by fans at Ibrox, which would sour form even worse. Stupid, lazy, thoughtless comparison.
 
Useless comparison, Aaron Hickey at 18, isn't good enough for Rangers. I don't think he ever will be. Or are you saying that if a young player is good enough for Hearts then they should be good enough for Rangers just because? We have a higher level of requirement and it will take players longer to achieve that. We can't just throw in players who are not ready, we are trying to win trophies. When young players do get to the level that they are able to contribute more, they will play more, simple as that.
So what about Tierney at that lot was he ready was Hickey ready for Scottish cup final on his 2nd appearance in Scottish football unless they're giving a chance we will never know ,so we have just resigned Kelly at 21 but he's not ready when are they ready for us at 22/23/24 that's absolutely nonsense if we think lads are going to wait until then to be given opportunity when every team everywhere else are letting the birds fly at 17/18,so my point is this we can't come on here moaning our youths are moving to big clubs in Europe just because we want to keep them in a cupboard until we think they're ready without been given a chance, would you be happy with that situation???
 
Hickey more ready for Hearts than Kelly for Rangers, yes.
Would Kelly be ready for Hearts, yes.
Are either ready to be starters for Rangers, no.

You do understand that the level to be successful for Rangers is much higher than being relegation cannon fodder with little pressure for fukcing Hearts? Not to mention that Hickey has been shite in quite a lot of games, and that would not be accepted at all by fans at Ibrox, which would sour form even worse. Stupid, lazy, thoughtless comparison.
Your point on expectations yes might be correct ,but let's not forget on the back of Hickey playing for them he has interest from everywhere including us apparently so again your point isn't on given opportunity you might find a star that the point.
 
It cost is 14 million to build the academy 20 years ago with an average of 4 million a year to run so the best part of 100 million in last 20 years -who now thinks it's worth it and why?
 
So what about Tierney at that lot was he ready was Hickey ready for Scottish cup final on his 2nd appearance in Scottish football unless they're giving a chance we will never know ,so we have just resigned Kelly at 21 but he's not ready when are they ready for us at 22/23/24 that's absolutely nonsense if we think lads are going to wait until then to be given opportunity when every team everywhere else are letting the birds fly at 17/18,so my point is this we can't come on here moaning our youths are moving to big clubs in Europe just because we want to keep them in a cupboard until we think they're ready without been given a chance, would you be happy with that situation???
You really struggle to differentiate players from their ages don't you? Are you aware that different football [layers develop at different ages? Also that different players have different abilities?

Central Midfield is a much harder position to play than fullback as well. MacGregor at the Filth had to take a loan down South and it took that other scrote in Midfield for the filth a loan at Dolly.
I'd suggest Kelly is around or slightly below them at a similar age, his next sensible move will be another loan at a higher level. It will probably benefit Kai as well to go out and build that first team experience, because we can't' afford to throw them in and have fans on their backs (you know that WILL happen!) when they make a mistake and destroy their confidence when they need to build consistent form at adult level. Not to mention we have a league to win and now is not the time to experiment, other than in nothing games or perhaps in the cups.

As much as I dislike the little scrote, Tierney was better than we currently have at a similar age and more ready for first team football, That's not about his age as much as about his ability.

We had a MASSIVE gap in abilities down the ages due to systematic failure at all ages, a crap infrastructure and lack of investment. Only now down the age groups is that filling in. We are bringing in players at the 17/18/19 age groups because there is still a natural gap of quality there.
 
It HASN't produced results because it was neglected for so bloody long, we're going way back to the 9 and row years unfortunately but far more extreme through the banter years We had a massive gap in quality right down the ages. In the next few years the hard work that has been done recently will start to show and we will hopefully have a nice stream of youth ready to step in. At that time it will be well worth it.

But it takes time.

We have been hearing it’s been fully revamped since Warburton came in 5years ago and have hardly produced one first team player
 
What a fantastic idea, it wouldn’t be at all embarrassing for a club Rangers size not to have a youth academy.

Lets allow every bit of talent in Scotland to go elsewhere, no option for Rangers supporting youngsters to play for the club.

Cracking idea lads.
It's a crazy thought, even by FF standards
 
You really struggle to differentiate players from their ages don't you? Are you aware that different football [layers develop at different ages? Also that different players have different abilities?

Central Midfield is a much harder position to play than fullback as well. MacGregor at the Filth had to take a loan down South and it took that other scrote in Midfield for the filth a loan at Dolly.
I'd suggest Kelly is around or slightly below them at a similar age, his next sensible move will be another loan at a higher level. It will probably benefit Kai as well to go out and build that first team experience, because we can't' afford to throw them in and have fans on their backs (you know that WILL happen!) when they make a mistake and destroy their confidence when they need to build consistent form at adult level. Not to mention we have a league to win and now is not the time to experiment, other than in nothing games or perhaps in the cups.

As much as I dislike the little scrote, Tierney was better than we currently have at a similar age and more ready for first team football, That's not about his age as much as about his ability.

We had a MASSIVE gap in abilities down the ages due to systematic failure at all ages, a crap infrastructure and lack of investment. Only now down the age groups is that filling in. We are bringing in players at the 17/18/19 age groups because there is still a natural gap of quality there.
Don't you hear yourself it's different excuse all the time ,it will be Kai and Patterson and young Coombes after that and so on it's just a conveyer belt .
 
It’s done us so much good up till now hasn’t it ?

My issue is we are being told we have some great players yet we are signing youth players from other teams .

Patterson doesn't have a device right to the first team. He needs competition to continue to develop (which he lacks as he is a stand-out in the youths and a big step away from Tav as yet.

If you have issues with us (allegedly) signing up top youth who are being offered contracts by Leicester and (reportedly) arsenal and appearing for the Dutch youth internationals on a free, you are off your head!

Barcelona had better stop signing young argentine Strikers too right?

Fact is, the academy will only really start paying off when the colts are let into the spfl or SPL teams start loaning our kids and playing them regularly (like we are starting to see with McCrorie and Kelly - who if they impress this year, will be a massive advert to SPL teams that our youth quality is high enough to help improve their starting 11 on the cheap whilst our kids gain experience at a high level)
 
Ho
Patterson doesn't have a device right to the first team. He needs competition to continue to develop (which he lacks as he is a stand-out in the youths and a big step away from Tav as yet.

If you have issues with us (allegedly) signing up top youth who are being offered contracts by Leicester and (reportedly) arsenal and appearing for the Dutch youth internationals on a free, you are off your head!

Barcelona had better stop signing young argentine Strikers too right?

Fact is, the academy will only really start paying off when the colts are let into the spfl or SPL teams start loaning our kids and playing them regularly (like we are starting to see with McCrorie and Kelly - who if they impress this year, will be a massive advert to SPL teams that our youth quality is high enough to help improve their starting 11 on the cheap whilst our kids gain experience at a high level)

How did we manage to produce players for years even before we could loan out players so the colts argument doesn’t really wash with me ??

Sending Kelly out as a 21 yearold who’s if I can remember correctly hasn’t played a first team game He’s either good enough at 21 or he’s not ? , Robbie McCrorie I agree with as he’s in a specialist position.
 
We have to look forward when considering the benefit of the Youth Academy, not back. Frankly, we've had very few young players come through the ranks in the last 10 years or so....Billy Gilmour excepted. Not only have they not made it into our first team, few have made it at a higher level after leaving us.

We have a totally different set up now, much more professional. Not only are we developing our own from very young but are also recruiting talent from other academies. We didn't make the investment in Ross Wilson and the vision he brings just for the fun of it. It takes time for the investment to flourish and it takes more time for young bodies to develop the physicality that comes with modern football. Footballers are stronger, fitter and faster than ever before with every movement, every exercise every breath recorded, analysed and adapted. Bring them in too early and they risk serious injury. Billy Gilmour can attest to that also. And that's not to mention the severe pressure all our managers have been under to win as Celtic achieved 9IAR.

So patience. The money isn't in Scottish football, we can't afford the talent we used to buy in and we have to develop it.
 
Our youth system was decimated during the period from 2011-2015. It needed an entire rebuild and the fruits of the rebuilding weren't going to be seen in the last couple of years.

The lack of perspective on this thread in regards to that is frankly astounding.
Not really astounding. What's astounding is that we were coming up the tables and the Academy wasn't a key component in our doing so. I think as Academies work generally they are failing young players, across the board, at this present moment. I have two sons, if they had had enough talent to be footballers I'd want them playing for a club where they are at the door of the first team, within a reasonable distance of doing so. Academies seem, to me anyway, very "congested" and that seems to be proved by the fact that in the past two decades a few players were on our books and were let go but made it elsewhere; this isn't just the odd one or two either. In my opinion the old Reserve league was a great platform for an up and coming young Rangers player; to play alongside and against more experienced players, and learn the finer aspects of the game; perhaps it also gave the manager and coaches a better understanding of that player's potential.
 
Not really astounding. What's astounding is that we were coming up the tables and the Academy wasn't a key component in our doing so. I think as Academies work generally they are failing young players, across the board, at this present moment. I have two sons, if they had had enough talent to be footballers I'd want them playing for a club where they are at the door of the first team, within a reasonable distance of doing so. Academies seem, to me anyway, very "congested" and that seems to be proved by the fact that in the past two decades a few players were on our books and were let go but made it elsewhere; this isn't just the odd one or two either. In my opinion the old Reserve league was a great platform for an up and coming young Rangers player; to play alongside and against more experienced players, and learn the finer aspects of the game; perhaps it also gave the manager and coaches a better understanding of that player's potential.

Did you miss the spivs being in charge during that time period?
 
We seem unable to give the kids chances in the first team. Sir Walter especially left them on the bench even when we were 3/4 up.
There’s not one fan in the stadium who doesn’t want a youngster to break through and get starts, not just 10 mins at the end.
I’d love us to push more into the first team. If you don’t give them a chance we’ll never know if they can make the step up or not, they need a few games in a row.
 
So as not to derail the transfer rumours thread anymore I’ve started a separate thread .

The last player we brought through and sold for any decent cash was Hutton 12 years ago.

We haven’t brought even many squad fillers through in years .

Apparently Patterson is one of our best prospects but if rumours are true we are looking at a player exactly the same age and position from Leicester,

Opinions on value for money and players seeing a path to the first team as for me we are falling down in both these areas !

Difficult to say really when the youth set up has been criminally under funded & mismanaged for well over a decade. Indeed it seems only the last few years it’s become more professional.

But if Gerrard would rather play someone like Flanagan then Patterson, what chance have the lads got & what is the point?
 
We seem unable to give the kids chances in the first team. Sir Walter especially left them on the bench even when we were 3/4 up.
There’s not one fan in the stadium who doesn’t want a youngster to break through and get starts, not just 10 mins at the end.
I’d love us to push more into the first team. If you don’t give them a chance we’ll never know if they can make the step up or not, they need a few games in a row.

First few passes that go astray the kid is labelled as shite as the usual Ibrox moans & groans are heard.

Can’t be an easy environment to learn your trade in.
 
Difficult to say really when the youth set up has been criminally under funded & mismanaged for well over a decade. Indeed it seems only the last few years it’s become more professional.

But if Gerrard would rather play someone like Flanagan then Patterson, what chance have the lads got & what is the point?

This exactly what my point is it must be soul destroying for the boys .
 
When we got sent to the 3rd division, we should’ve pumped money into our youth development instead of wasters like Sandaza, Black, Law etc.

We should’ve tried to lure the best coaches and youngsters from across the continent with the wages we spunked on those losers.
 
When we got sent to the 3rd division, we should’ve pumped money into our youth development instead of wasters like Sandaza, Black, Law etc.

We should’ve tried to lure the best coaches and youngsters from across the continent with the wages we spunked on those losers.
That's the point if we couldn't have done it in the dark days we have no chance now.
 
We've done ok. McGregor, Hutton, Smith, Burke, Adam, Stephen Hughes, Danny Wilson to a lesser extent, they all played a decent amount of games and contributed to league wins (possibly Smith aside?).

Fleck didn't do as well as we hoped, but he also got over 50 appearances in his time.

Gregg Wylde played a fair bit in a league winning team.

It's not been that bad in my opinion.
Apart from Hutton it hasn't paid for itself though.
 
It's a crazy thought, even by FF standards
However through history we've always bought young Scottish talent from other clubs as well as produced them. Going back to Alan Morton, Baxter, McCoist, Gough etc. Likes of Barry Ferguson and McGregor are perhaps exceptions?

A huge problem has been and is that Scottish football is crap with no conveyor belt of talent, and epl clubs are so wealthy they can distort the market up here.

What people are saying is that any genuine talent will head south, and the 'average level of talent' we've seen won't be good enough for our first team.
 
Got to laugh at the shite posted on this thread, first Rangers fan that would inevitably make it through Celtics youth set up if we scrapped ours and the pitchforks would be out demanding it be reestablished from the same crackpots that want to scrap it.

Give yourselves peace ffs.
 
It’s far harder at a club like us to blood young players because of the expectation to win. You see established pros join for big money and struggle at Ibrox - we aren’t always the most understanding bunch. Celtic had the opportunity to blood players while we were out the league - mcgregor, tierney. I don’t think their set up is necessarily more productive, it’s just they had the luxury of being able to bring through players. Perhaps we should have done the same in the lower leagues but you can’t blame the academy for that. The old firm may have the best coaches in the country, but it is so much harder to get near the first team. Case in point Hastie, looked a gem at Motherwell, a few pre season run outs and shunted out on loan.
 
It’s far harder at a club like us to blood young players because of the expectation to win. You see established pros join for big money and struggle at Ibrox - we aren’t always the most understanding bunch. Celtic had the opportunity to blood players while we were out the league - mcgregor, tierney. I don’t think their set up is necessarily more productive, it’s just they had the luxury of being able to bring through players. Perhaps we should have done the same in the lower leagues but you can’t blame the academy for that. The old firm may have the best coaches in the country, but it is so much harder to get near the first team. Case in point Hastie, looked a gem at Motherwell, a few pre season run outs and shunted out on loan.
Hastie is nowhere near the level of Kennedy Mcpake etc that's the absolute issue here we went bought him when we have better in our own academy.
 
Apart from Hutton it hasn't paid for itself though.

No one on here knows how much it costs, mind you.

And it really shouldn't be about money. Or, if we're going to focus on that, it shouldn't be a "separate entity". It's part of the club.

Our current first team squad hasn't made us more than they've cost. The premise of this argument would tell us we should scrap the entire club!
 
Best on pitch .we all rave about Gilmour on here no mention of lightweight but because we won't take chances on Kennedy he's regarded lightweight.excuse after excuse for me.
Not an excuse more of an opinion but i guess there is only one way to find out for sure.
 
based on facts like number of youngsters who have progressed into the first team...the answer is no.
 
Hastie is nowhere near the level of Kennedy Mcpake etc that's the absolute issue here we went bought him when we have better in our own academy.
Not disagreeing at all, however we got Hastie for a nominal fee after a great start at Motherwell. I don’t think that pragmatic business by the club can be used as an argument to detract from the effectiveness of our academy. I was just making the point it’s so much easier to break through at clubs with less pressure.
Also, with the almost unprecedented pressure on us to stop 10 next season, would you be happy to give Kennedy or McPake the game time to develop? I personally wouldn’t want to take that risk. I am happy to see the way the club is now harnessing the loan system to develop our players and with any luck this season McCrorie, Kelly, Hastie, Docherty, Middleton will all be getting game time in the top flight and helping take points off our rivals.
 
It cost is 14 million to build the academy 20 years ago with an average of 4 million a year to run so the best part of 100 million in last 20 years -who now thinks it's worth it and why?
It was built as a training centre. No mention or plan of an academy at the time from memory.
 
No one on here knows how much it costs, mind you.

And it really shouldn't be about money. Or, if we're going to focus on that, it shouldn't be a "separate entity". It's part of the club.

Our current first team squad hasn't made us more than they've cost. The premise of this argument would tell us we should scrap the entire club!
The leadership came close my friend. Too close. I just fear we won't produce talent as national environment is poor and any genuine elite level stars will go south. A Tim I know says (could be lie) that epl clubs are already sniffing around Caramac Dembele.
 
Hastie is nowhere near the level of Kennedy Mcpake etc that's the absolute issue here we went bought him when we have better in our own academy.
Don't know how you can make a statement like that when Hastie scored 7 in 15 or something for Motherwell. McPake and Kennedy will have better careers probably but to say they're far better as we speak can't really be proven.
 
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