Youth Academy value for money or not ?

Not disagreeing at all, however we got Hastie for a nominal fee after a great start at Motherwell. I don’t think that pragmatic business by the club can be used as an argument to detract from the effectiveness of our academy. I was just making the point it’s so much easier to break through at clubs with less pressure.
Also, with the almost unprecedented pressure on us to stop 10 next season, would you be happy to give Kennedy or McPake the game time to develop? I personally wouldn’t want to take that risk. I am happy to see the way the club is now harnessing the loan system to develop our players and with any luck this season McCrorie, Kelly, Hastie, Docherty, Middleton will all be getting game time in the top flight and helping take points off our rival

I would take chance on any youngster and if they don't prove it they will know themselves but need given chance to get it wrong.

As for it being made as a training centre Craig come on now we are picking there mate .
 
Don't know how you can make a statement like that when Hastie scored 7 in 15 or something for Motherwell. McPake and Kennedy will have better careers probably but to say they're far better as we speak can't really be proven.
So because he scores 7 for Motherwell we sign him as hes better than our own youths FFS he must be he scored 7 eh ,why we willing to give other clubs academy youths a chance but not our own this is question.
 
So because he scores 7 for Motherwell we sign him as hes better than our own youths FFS he must be he scored 7 eh ,why we willing to give other clubs academy youths a chance but not our own this is question.
Because he is a few years further on in his development, had a better scoring record than most of our starting 11 forwards never mind academy and was on a free transfer?
 
We have to have an youth development system as we don't have the money to buy every position.

It's only in recent years that we've begun to focus on the academy and developing young players for the first team. If we can get 1 or 2 players coming through a year, who can help us be successful on the pitch and add value off it, then we are doing well. A lot of fans need to realise that the vast majority of players coming through the academy will never play for the first team. However, that shouldn't dissuade us from investing in this area.

Some will make the first team. Some will go on loan in order to get ready for the first team. Some will be sold on as they're not good enough for us but are for other clubs. This will bring in other revenue.
 
We have to have an youth development system as we don't have the money to buy every position.

It's only in recent years that we've begun to focus on the academy and developing young players for the first team. If we can get 1 or 2 players coming through a year, who can help us be successful on the pitch and add value off it, then we are doing well. A lot of fans need to realise that the vast majority of players coming through the academy will never play for the first team. However, that shouldn't dissuade us from investing in this area.

Some will make the first team. Some will go on loan in order to get ready for the first team. Some will be sold on as they're not good enough for us but are for other clubs. This will bring in other revenue.
Does it seem cost effective then?
That's the thread ?
 
Does it seem cost effective then?
That's the thread ?

It will be. We've only been focusing on it for a few seasons. Given the current football landscape, we have no option but to develop talent.

Our structure is designed from Wilson, Mulholland through the club is to get players ready for our first team, who can contribute on the pitch and add value off it.
 
So because he scores 7 for Motherwell we sign him as hes better than our own youths FFS he must be he scored 7 eh ,why we willing to give other clubs academy youths a chance but not our own this is question.

Signing Hastie didn't mean we weren't going to give our youth players a chance.
 
It will be. We've only been focusing on it for a few seasons. Given the current football landscape, we have no option but to develop talent.

Our structure is designed from Wilson, Mulholland through the club is to get players ready for our first team, who can contribute on the pitch and add value off it.
Like all there predecessors always promising but no end product.sorry but true
 
obviously going on players making it to the First team it's not.
We seem to be producing players we release for the benefit of other clubs with not a lot in fees coming in.
 
It will be. We've only been focusing on it for a few seasons. Given the current football landscape, we have no option but to develop talent.

Our structure is designed from Wilson, Mulholland through the club is to get players ready for our first team, who can contribute on the pitch and add value off it.

We haven’t developed talent , thats the whole issue in my humble opinion, if the posts are correct that players are leaving due to lack of opportunities then someone has to be held accountable.
there is no end result for vast sums of money spent year by year.
 
I love how he describes his ECWC Final experience, and how Dave Smith spoke him through that. It sounds as if he developed very quickly through big game experience.
a bit like Davie Weir talking Danny Wilson through his breakthrough.
pity Wilson then got ideas above his station.
 
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So as not to derail the transfer rumours thread anymore I’ve started a separate thread .

The last player we brought through and sold for any decent cash was Hutton 12 years ago.

We haven’t brought even many squad fillers through in years .

Apparently Patterson is one of our best prospects but if rumours are true we are looking at a player exactly the same age and position from Leicester,

Opinions on value for money and players seeing a path to the first team as for me we are falling down in both these areas !

Our youth system was pretty much decimated after the events of 2012 and was horribly neglected until very recently, probably around the time when Mark Allen came on board. I'm not sure it's had enough resource and time to produce players that can actually get into the 1st team, but there are certainly a few promising players coming through but it will need time.
 
We haven’t developed talent , thats the whole issue in my humble opinion, if the posts are correct that players are leaving due to lack of opportunities then someone has to be held accountable.
there is no end result for vast sums of money spent year by year.

Who has left due to lack of opportunity who has then shown we made a mistake of late?

Players like Gilmour and Fleck chose to leave. Aside from them, I'm struggling to see anyone we should regret not keeping.
 
It cost is 14 million to build the academy 20 years ago with an average of 4 million a year to run so the best part of 100 million in last 20 years -who now thinks it's worth it and why?
Fleck and Gilmour could be worth a serious chunk of that money , pity we won’t see any of it.
 
Who has left due to lack of opportunity who has then shown we made a mistake of late?

Players like Gilmour and Fleck chose to leave. Aside from them, I'm struggling to see anyone we should regret not keeping.

few posters on this thread suggesting Kennedy is leaving
 
Don't you hear yourself it's different excuse all the time ,it will be Kai and Patterson and young Coombes after that and so on it's just a conveyer belt .
Did you see Patterson against Peterhead? Or even against Villarreal. He's nowhere near ready to play for a title challenging Rangers yet, and needs game time in senior Football to grow and develop.
 
Did you see Patterson against Peterhead? Or even against Villarreal. He's nowhere near ready to play for a title challenging Rangers yet, and needs game time in senior Football to grow and develop.
Nae bother u get off the liquor pal never played any them teams.
 
Who has left due to lack of opportunity who has then shown we made a mistake of late?

Players like Gilmour and Fleck chose to leave. Aside from them, I'm struggling to see anyone we should regret not keeping.
And for record Killie got 3 million for him off that lot.
 
Our youth system was pretty much decimated after the events of 2012 and was horribly neglected until very recently, probably around the time when Mark Allen came on board. I'm not sure it's had enough resource and time to produce players that can actually get into the 1st team, but there are certainly a few promising players coming through but it will need time.

We keep hearing we need to give them time. The current academy management have had some players for 5/6 years.
 
That’s what we seem to be doing anyway ,

We would be better scouting14/15/16 yearolds extensively and forgetting about bringing players through.
Haven’t read the full thread but what do we do with this teenagers once scouted and identified?
Sign them but ask them to sit in the house?
 
Sign them at 16 on a pro contract like Chelsea did with Gilmour.
If we identify a particularly promising 14 year old?

Monitor for two years and hopefully he just signs at 16 rather than cultivate a relationship with him and his family?
 
If we identify a particularly promising 14 year old?

Monitor for two years and hopefully he just signs at 16 rather than cultivate a relationship with him and his family?
I'd imagine the cost we pour into anything under the U17s level isn't all that great so would be pointless scrapping it anyway, not as though it's going to amount to significant investment in the 1st team anyway. Get why some are frustrated but that's no reason to scrap the system... hopefully we see players emerge over the next 5 years.

As for the boys from Leicester, we'd be mad not to take the opportunity not to sign players from other academies when they arise just to allay fears of current youngsters, competition for places is part and parcel of the game.
 
Greg Taylor was released by us at 16.

He never left due to a lack of first team opportunities.

He isn't very good either.
The point is our opinions are irrelevant Killie left us and Killie got 3 million our decision to release the boy has to be looked at surely Gilmour now and the news is Kennedy is going soon and Coombes also ,to be honest if we lose boys for whatever reason it's not good enough why are they wanting to leave and why wouldn't we take chance on them this has been spiralling every year since I remember ,we are the biggest club and only club they should want to stay and play for and if not why not.
 
Wonder what that made Derek Johnstone when he scored a cup final winner against Celtic.
Exactly. Or Michael Owen scoring in a World Cup, or Pele scoring in a World Cup Final. Or Barry Ferguson a first team regular at 19. Ludicrous attitude. Rather have young guys having a go than past its creaming easy cash off us.
 
The point is our opinions are irrelevant Killie left us and Killie got 3 million our decision to release the boy has to be looked at surely Gilmour now and the news is Kennedy is going soon and Coombes also ,to be honest if we lose boys for whatever reason it's not good enough why are they wanting to leave and why wouldn't we take chance on them this has been spiralling every year since I remember ,we are the biggest club and only club they should want to stay and play for and if not why not.

It is relevant because he wasn't good enough to play for Rangers and still isn't. Greg Taylor wouldn't have got a game ahead of Lee Wallace at any point in his career and wouldn't get a game ahead of Borna Barisic.

There's no concrete information that Kai Kennedy or Nathan Young Coombes are leaving due to a lack of opportunities and that's not why Gilmour left. Your post is a lot of hysterical nonsense.
 
We will know in two or three seasons if we have three or four players come through who are currently youth products.
And if Ross Wilson does his business properly we will be able to sell some of them on for decent fees if they don’t quite make the grade with us.
 
If we identify a particularly promising 14 year old?

Monitor for two years and hopefully he just signs at 16 rather than cultivate a relationship with him and his family?

With the millions a year we are spending with no benefits it might be the best way ,

We cultivated a relationship with Gilmour and he still dropped his knickers for Chelsea at the first opportunity.
 
It is relevant because he wasn't good enough to play for Rangers and still isn't. Greg Taylor wouldn't have got a game ahead of Lee Wallace at any point in his career and wouldn't get a game ahead of Borna Barisic.

There's no concrete information that Kai Kennedy or Nathan Young Coombes are leaving due to a lack of opportunities and that's not why Gilmour left. Your post is a lot of hysterical nonsense.
Wait n see how hysterical it is .
 
With the millions a year we are spending with no benefits it might be the best way ,

We cultivated a relationship with Gilmour and he still dropped his knickers for Chelsea at the first opportunity.
Hopefully he isnt the norm and other families who see their kids come through at our academy don’t do what that questionable family did.
 
Hopefully he isnt the norm and other families who see their kids come through at our academy don’t do what that questionable family did.

Cash will turn most peoples heads apart from the extra staunch ,

Just think It’s a massive risk using all this money to train kids for very little return and can’t tie them down till they turn 16 .
 
We haven’t developed talent , thats the whole issue in my humble opinion, if the posts are correct that players are leaving due to lack of opportunities then someone has to be held accountable.
there is no end result for vast sums of money spent year by year.

We've only really begun to focus on developing young players. Before that we were fighting for the clubs existence and prior to that we were still in the buy player mindset.

Academy systems take years to be fruitful. You're reliant on a number of factors to get to ready first team players. We don't have the finances to buy a winning team. We must develop talent. If we don't get players coming through we'll tweak and adapt the system until we do. The management structure at the Club appear to have that ethos.
 
Like all there predecessors always promising but no end product.sorry but true

This success or failure of this era of management and coaching have nothing to do with other eras. Academy systems take years to get in place and be successful. We're still in a watch this space position.
 
If we identify a particularly promising 14 year old?

Monitor for two years and hopefully he just signs at 16 rather than cultivate a relationship with him and his family?
If your glass was half full he'll be here in the two years.
 
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