We need to become a "Modern" club player wise.

Fergie90

Fergie90

Well-Known Member
We need to get King and Lowry in the team properly contributing next season.

Leipzig, Benfica, Porto, Monaco, Lyon etc all have really young talented players and they blood them straight in regardless of age and that attracts more top youngsters.

We have become a force in Europe again and will probably sell a good few this summer. Its time to really give these guys responsibility and let them flourish
 
RenfrewBear72 said:
Lowry and King both look ready, just about nurturing them and guiding them, and of course continually improving them.
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Lowry certainly looks ready. His performance today was brilliant. Looked like he was playing a different sport at times. Get him in next year and give him plenty of game time.
 
Fergie90 said:
We need to get King and Lowry in the team properly contributing next season.

Leipzig, Benfica, Porto, Monaco, Lyon etc all have really young talented players and they blood them straight in regardless of age and that attracts more top youngsters.

We have become a force in Europe again and will probably sell a good few this summer. Its time to really give these guys responsibility and let them flourish
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There are absolutely zero reason for players not to get a chance when Munich, Dortmund, Chelsea, Liverpool, Real, Barca, Milan, Porto and Benfica give their Youth players more than enough to prove themselves.
 
Dotty_84 said:
There are absolutely zero reason for players not to get a chance when Munich, Dortmund, Chelsea, Liverpool, Real, Barca, Milan, Porto and Benfica give their Youth players more than enough to prove themselves.
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If we can't play these guys against the dross in the spfl then we are in trouble.

They might make the odd mistake but they would stroll it and save us a fortune on wages to players like Simpson and Itten etc if we could move them on.
 
Manhattan_Loyalist said:
It's really nice and romantic but it's not practical given the demands we have and the fact we need to win in the league every single week.

We need to have top, established, experienced players in the team.

But we should be doing what we did today, more.

We should be blending it a little and giving these kids proper game time along with developing them.
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Agreed they can't just be starting at Tynecastle or a game we think might be a quite tricky but why can't King not play at home to bottom 6 teams or Lowry brought on most weeks and starting every few weeks.
 
Crouchy said:
GVB and Vos should be the guys to do that.

First part is stop wasting wages on squad fillers and have these guys as the back ups.
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I agree completely. However most of the fans are constantly demanding loads of players. Some folk have even been saying we need 12 or more new players this summer!!
 
Dotty_84 said:
There are absolutely zero reason for players not to get a chance when Munich, Dortmund, Chelsea, Liverpool, Real, Barca, Milan, Porto and Benfica give their Youth players more than enough to prove themselves.
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Of course there is.
All these teams know that, in their leagues, a draw, even a defeat, isn’t going to be catastrophic.
Other teams will always take points off each other.
You see the match threads and the post mortems on here during and after such an event.
That’s the pressure our manager is under.
We will bring players through but it’ll be a trickle, not a flood.
Lowry and King may well be the only ones of the current group, not because the others, like McCann, aren’t good enough, but because they need, need, experience beside them.
Barry Ferguson is the only player I can think of whose early career form didn’t noticeably dip.
Or, maybe it did but he had the likes of Gio, Tugay and Albertz to cover for him.
We are all aware of the exception to the rule but 99.9% of the time, the old adage “you win nothing with kids” is accurate.
 
considering Vos background you would think next season there could be scope for it.

I don’t think lowry signs on for that length to just slunk about the B team and play a couple games now on
 
tazzabear said:
Of course there is.
All these teams know that, in their leagues, a draw, even a defeat, isn’t going to be catastrophic.
Other teams will always take points off each other.
You see the match threads and the post mortems on here during and after such an event.
That’s the pressure our manager is under.
We will bring players through but it’ll be a trickle, not a flood.
Lowry and King may well be the only ones of the current group, not because the others, like McCann, aren’t good enough, but because they need, need, experience beside them.
Barry Ferguson is the only player I can think of whose early career form didn’t noticeably dip.
Or, maybe it did but he had the likes of Gio, Tugay and Albertz to cover for him.
We are all aware of the exception to the rule but 99.9% of the time, the old adage “you win nothing with kids” is accurate.
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But we can 100% be giving a Lowry or a King starts against certain teams. I'm not saying throw all 3 of them on at once. But if we're against dross a player can start and if we're winning by a decent margin versus better teams they can come on and gradually build momentum.
 
Manhattan_Loyalist said:
It's really nice and romantic but it's not practical given the demands we have and the fact we need to win in the league every single week.

We need to have top, established, experienced players in the team.

But we should be doing what we did today, more.

We should be blending it a little and giving these kids proper game time along with developing them.
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The two things are not mutually exclusive. Lowry should be taking Ramsey's place, for example. King for Helander. We either use these players, or they leave to the EPL for buttons without making a first team impact
 
I think that's the end goal tbh.

I just think it takes longer than most of us likely think it does. All the teams you mentioned, all have some amount of years on us in terms of having academies that produce talent regularly.

People need to stop being so do or die when it comes to youth players too though. A lot of them won't make it, some of them will have a really bright start and then fade out. Others will be utterly class and we'll lose them early. Some will go on to be valuable members of the first team or squad.

It's not an exact science. Our academy is also still developing. It's had to do a lot of growing to do in a short amount of time.
 
Maybe needs to tweak the balance of the squad to have more top quality/game changing players around them to carry the youngsters through and make it easier for them. I'd rather have 10 top players and 10 youths in a squad than 20 mid range players.
 
We should take the opportunity to give some of these young players the reward of a first team run. Help them progress inter mixed with experience we already passed up this chance before when we were rebuilding
 
Souness’s Moustache said:
Today was a training day. Hard to really gauge them. But any time I have saw Lowry play outwith today he has looked a prospect.
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Not exactly a training day when the opposition are still, cheating, sniping and trying to brutalise everything that moves. Not the kid's fault they're more interested in destructive tactics, rather than play the game.

Plenty challenges today and were met by ALL the young guys.
 
I would rather we had taken the chance on King than signing an injury prone Souttar!
Also we should have thanked Arfield for his services and promoted a youngster into his squad spot.
 
I'd add Stephen Kelly to that mix I really liked the look of him hopefully can step up I've not followed his recent loan spell but thought he looked a good player prior
 
We also need them in and around the 1st team getting good amount game time so youngsters like Wilson can see a route to the 1st team and hopefully sign contracts at 16.
 
Dotty_84 said:
There are absolutely zero reason for players not to get a chance when Munich, Dortmund, Chelsea, Liverpool, Real, Barca, Milan, Porto and Benfica give their Youth players more than enough to prove themselves.
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There's always the "you know what our fans are like if someone has a bad game" stuff, as if the fans of the clubs you've listed would really be any different to us.

I'm pretty sure Italian teams give youth a chance, and they'll have the ultras storming the training ground if they don't perform!
 
I'm my lifetime(I'm 55) ,Rangers have been incredibly poor at bringing through youngsters that cement a first team place
But this group of lads look like they can go all the way .
 
Manhattan_Loyalist said:
It's really nice and romantic but it's not practical given the demands we have and the fact we need to win in the league every single week.

We need to have top, established, experienced players in the team.

But we should be doing what we did today, more.

We should be blending it a little and giving these kids proper game time along with developing them.
Click to expand...

Mate with the disparity of wages between us and the rest of the clubs we should definitely be able to have at least one youth prospect in the starting team every week. The players we do play good money for should be more than capable of getting us through games. I also believe youths do not require extra motivation.
 
GazzaG said:
There's always the "you know what our fans are like if someone has a bad game" stuff, as if the fans of the clubs you've listed would really be any different to us.

I'm pretty sure Italian teams give youth a chance, and they'll have the ultras storming the training ground if they don't perform!
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Here’s a thought.
Let’s concentrate on the Rangers support.
(More so because I’m sure neither you nor I are aware of the Italian supporter’s thinking here.
Are the your words, the ones I’ve emboldened, true or not.
Have we become a patient support?
Will we accept second in the league?
 
tazzabear said:
Here’s a thought.
Let’s concentrate on the Rangers support.
(More so because I’m sure neither you nor I are aware of the Italian supporter’s thinking here.
Are the your words, the ones I’ve emboldened, true or not.
Have we become a patient support?
Will we accept second in the league?
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You could apply it to every player we sign then, you can either play in front of 50000 at Ibrox or you can't.

The idea that we are unique in world football as a demanding support is laughable.

There's pressure to win at any big club.
 
The teams you mention play in leagues where the football is less physical and is more skill based than Scotland.

The problem with playing lightly built skillful youth players is that the anti-football thugs in Scottish Premiership will kick them around the pitch and the crap refs will do nothing to protect them.

Hopefully VAR will clamp down on the rough and tumble style of Scottish football and will make it practical to play skilful youth players.
 
Fergie90 said:
We need to get King and Lowry in the team properly contributing next season.

Leipzig, Benfica, Porto, Monaco, Lyon etc all have really young talented players and they blood them straight in regardless of age and that attracts more top youngsters.

We have become a force in Europe again and will probably sell a good few this summer. Its time to really give these guys responsibility and let them flourish
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What the teams we are beating
 
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I actually have a lot of confidence in Gio and Vos to take care of their development and get them involved heavily next season. Lowry and King will both play a big part next season in my opinion.
 
GazzaG said:
You could apply it to every player we sign then, you can either play in front of 50000 at Ibrox or you can't.

The idea that we are unique in world football as a demanding support is laughable.

There's pressure to win at any big club.
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Yes, absolutely there is.
However, you must be simply ignoring the views, the behaviours and the attitude of Rangers support, not just on here, but in the pubs and in the stands, to believe the pressure we apply and our impatience are the norm.
There was a thread on here a few years where the fans were apoplectic when we were two down at half time in a game.
A closed door friendly at the Excelsior in Airdrie whilst playing our squad players and youths.
Or another time when a promising youngster was never going to make it after a twenty minute appearance as a sixteen year old.
You tell me that happens everywhere!
My work takes me around the country and halfway down England.
I meet fans of loads of clubs and some who are involved in high pressure derbies.
Nobody seems to believe me when I tell them that, for example, a number of supporters want Gio out when we lost our lead in the league.
Long before we got to the point of recovery being unlikely.
I even showed them a post criticising the manager for “emmmmmm-ing” whilst being interviewed.
You tell me that happens everywhere.
 
GazzaG said:
You could apply it to every player we sign then, you can either play in front of 50000 at Ibrox or you can't.

The idea that we are unique in world football as a demanding support is laughable.

There's pressure to win at any big club.
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Okay, here is another.
Five months ago, the shirt was too big for John Lundstram.
How many more players might we have chased because we decided they weren’t good enough way too early?
 
Manhattan_Loyalist said:
Not really.

Is Lowry a better player than Ramsey or King Helander?

Of course we won't know for sure unless they play - which is why I said I agree they need more game time but having a team full of youths, playing every week as a model thinking we can emulate Ajax or Porto isn't a great idea given the environment we play in and the demands the club have.

Folk as long as I remember have always had this romantic notion that the Rangers kids are on a par with the 1970's Brazil team and can conquer the world when the reality is most of them end up playing for Dumbarton, Falkirk, Airdrie or stacking shelfs - with the odd exception.
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Teams like ajax and porto also don't have a team of young players. They have 0-3 starting depending on their current batches a lot of the younger players are squad options until they hit early 20s. They use a lot of older experienced players to balance it out and make up for the younger players deficiencies. It why I was happy King had Goldson and Borna next to him.

People need to keep in mind King and Lowry are 18 not 20/21. They have plenty of time to develop into first team regulars. A good 10+ starts next season with another 10-20 sub appearances would be good progression at their age.
 
We have a decent crop of young players at the moment and are starting to see the benefit of our change in the youth system in recent years. What we do have to remember even Ajax look to get approximately 1.5 players a year on average through to their first team. It's not easy for a young player to break through.
 
I think this is a big factor in Vos being the guy we brought in as Gio's No 2. Looks to have a great CV working with young players.

Really exciting times for us with the quality we saw coming through today.
 
tazzabear said:
Yes, absolutely there is.
However, you must be simply ignoring the views, the behaviours and the attitude of Rangers support, not just on here, but in the pubs and in the stands, to believe the pressure we apply and our impatience are the norm.
There was a thread on here a few years where the fans were apoplectic when we were two down at half time in a game.
A closed door friendly at the Excelsior in Airdrie whilst playing our squad players and youths.
Or another time when a promising youngster was never going to make it after a twenty minute appearance as a sixteen year old.
You tell me that happens everywhere!
My work takes me around the country and halfway down England.
I meet fans of loads of clubs and some who are involved in high pressure derbies.
Nobody seems to believe me when I tell them that, for example, a number of supporters want Gio out when we lost our lead in the league.
Long before we got to the point of recovery being unlikely.
I even showed them a post criticising the manager for “emmmmmm-ing” whilst being interviewed.
You tell me that happens everywhere.
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You've asked me to tell you it happens everywhere a couple of times there, but I've never said it does or even implied that it does.

I'll reiterate my point. There are moany bastards, guys who write off players after their first bad pass, fans who go mental losing friendlies other places in world football.

As I've said all along, none of it is unique to Rangers.
Does it happen everywhere? Probably not, but I never said it did.
Does it only happen at Rangers? Absolutely no way.
 
Manhattan_Loyalist said:
Not really.

Is Lowry a better player than Ramsey or King Helander?

Of course we won't know for sure unless they play - which is why I said I agree they need more game time but having a team full of youths, playing every week as a model thinking we can emulate Ajax or Porto isn't a great idea given the environment we play in and the demands the club have.

Folk as long as I remember have always had this romantic notion that the Rangers kids are on a par with the 1970's Brazil team and can conquer the world when the reality is most of them end up playing for Dumbarton, Falkirk, Airdrie or stacking shelfs - with the odd exception.
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Reading that we’d be as well closing the academy down.
 
Manhattan_Loyalist said:
We need to have top, established, experienced players in the team.
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Why can’t we have, say 9 of the first 11 as top, established, experienced players supplemented with 2 youngsters?

IMO we should be looking to integrate at least one youth team member into the starting 11 each season, provided they are talented enough.

Which King & Lowry certainly look to be, along with McCann. Those 3 could easily replace the game time that, Ramsey, Balogun & Davis have been given this season.
 
tazzabear said:
Okay, here is another.
Five months ago, the shirt was too big for John Lundstram.
How many more players might we have chased because we decided they weren’t good enough way too early?
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I definitely think you're getting the wrong end of the stick here mate.
I said at the time people shouldn't be writing Lundstram off.
I've been around this forum what must be about 2 decades and seen the type of post you refer to countless times and have always argued against it.
There's not a player in our squad who we either shouldn't have signed or should have got rid of according to the experts on here.

I don't see the relevance that has to being good enough to play in front of 50000 at Ibrox.
You're either a good enough player to perform or you aren't. I certainly can't think of any player who was ever driven out by our support.
 
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