Old Firm B teams to be invited to join SPFL 3

They should be creating a reserve league again instead of ruining the integrity of the football pyramid

For years fans wanted a proper pyramid in place and we got it. B team joining lower league was ok but that shouldn’t impact teams from west of Scotland or east of Scotland being able to get a route into league football
 
AchtungBaby said:
To be honest, I'd rather see ambitious teams like Darvel and the other big junior teams getting their chance than some of the dross that makes up the lower league. Slamming the door on them iseliminating the opportunity for new teams with bigger fanbases to improve the Scottish game.
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Hang on.

Darvel? Bigger fan base?

Darvel is an example of a team throwing money around to try and dominate the pyramid set up. If you want to look at WoS sides doing things the right way then look at Pollok and Clydebank.
 
Davieblue said:
They’ve been playing each other since they’ve been 10. Playing against older tougher opponents gives them a different challenge imo.
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They’re playing against glorified amateurs in the lowland league. I don’t see how playing in lower leagues readies any player to play for our first team

Look at Josh mcpake, doing relatively well in Championship and was highly touted for us but he’s absolutely no where near being good enough. Playing against amateurs would’ve done 0 for his development
 
There are way too many "community" teams in the league set up. At a minimum ourselves and the vermin should have B teams in the set up.
 
Skylon Niagara said:
They’re playing against glorified amateurs in the lowland league. I don’t see how playing in lower leagues readies any player to play for our first team

Look at Josh mcpake, doing relatively well in Championship and was highly touted for us but he’s absolutely no where near being good enough. Playing against amateurs would’ve done 0 for his development
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We don't want our B team playing in the lowland league forever, this was purely to get our foot in the door.
 
They shouldn't be creating a League Three to do this. It should be part of a national restructuring of the entire pyramid with larger leagues and less tiers at SPFL level. B-Teams should be entered at an appropriate level.
 
I think the whole system of Scottish professional leagues needs a restructure. It’s currently too difficult for Junior sides to get promoted and it’s setup to keep the same faces in the league year in year out. Not sure that a League 3 is the answer to that.
 
Walty72 said:
I know it'll never happen but our B teams would be so much better if they were playing at a higher level. For instance when Barca and Real Madrid B's used to play in the second tier of Spanish football.
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As do PSV and Ajax in Holland
 
Ter said:
They shouldn't be creating a League Three to do this. It should be part of a national restructuring of the entire pyramid with larger leagues and less tiers at SPFL level. B-Teams should be entered at an appropriate level.
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Agreed. This League Three idea is a shambles.

We only need two professional leagues in Scotland with a feeder league below and a full pyramid below that.
 
Skylon Niagara said:
They should be creating a reserve league again instead of ruining the integrity of the football pyramid

For years fans wanted a proper pyramid in place and we got it. B team joining lower league was ok but that shouldn’t impact teams from west of Scotland or east of Scotland being able to get a route into league football
Click to expand...

We had a reserve league and us and the tims pulled out of it because it was the same group of players our players had played against at youth level and it wasn't doing anything for their development. We then started playing friendlies instead against other youth academies like Bayern, Man Utd etc.

The whole pyramid setup needs changed it doesn't work the Highland League and Lowland League winners shouldn't need to play a playoff match against the team that finishes bottom of league 2 to gain promotion. The playoffs in the league always tend to favour the teams that finish 11th in top flight or 9th in championship/league 1 as well it needs complete change.
 
bkerr72 said:
We had a reserve league and us and the tims pulled out of it because it was the group of players our players had played against at youth level and it wasn't doing anything for their development. We then started playing friendlies instead against other youth academies like Bayern, Man Utd etc.

The whole pyramid setup needs changed it doesn't work the Highland League and Lowland League winners shouldn't need to play a playoff match against the team that finishes bottom of league 2 to gain promotion. The playoffs in the league always tend to favour the teams that finish 11th in top flight or 9th in championship/league 1 as well it needs complete change.
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Don’t disagree but the big clubs in Scotland, including us, shouldn’t be allowed to enter B teams into the proper league system as it’ll just clog it up

Imagine rangers or Celtic B winning the championship regularly and blocking teams promotion. It would make a mockery of Scottish football
 
Skylon Niagara said:
They should be creating a reserve league again instead of ruining the integrity of the football pyramid

For years fans wanted a proper pyramid in place and we got it. B team joining lower league was ok but that shouldn’t impact teams from west of Scotland or east of Scotland being able to get a route into league football
Click to expand...
The pyramid needs altered. There are teams stuck in the 5th and 6th tier who have better backing and fanbases than many in the divisions above. They can't get up because the system is set to try and keep the team for tier 4 and tier 5 in their division.

You shouldn't have to play a 2 leg playoff just to have the chance of playing the worst team in tier 4.

There should be 3 tiers. Then from 4 onwards it splits and starts becoming a pyramid. 2 tables in tier 4, 4 tables in tier 5. Then all the smaller stuff below that.
 
Mac72 said:
The pyramid needs altered. There are teams stuck in the 5th and 6th tier who have better backing and fanbases than many in the divisions above. They can't get up because the system is set to try and keep the team for tier 4 and tier 5 in their division.

You shouldn't have to play a 2 leg playoff just to have the chance of playing the worst team in tier 4.

There should be 3 tiers. Then from 4 onwards it splits and starts becoming a pyramid. 2 tables in tier 4, 4 tables in tier 5. Then all the smaller stuff below that.
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I’d much rather see teams like Pollok, Talbot, Darvel, Clydebank, Kilwinning be in tier 5 pushing for proper promotion than having B teams stalling progression for clubs

Have our B team playing elite academy’s in friendlies in addition to a reserve league
 
Skylon Niagara said:
Don’t disagree but the big clubs in Scotland, including us, shouldn’t be allowed to enter B teams into the proper league system as it’ll just clog it up

Imagine rangers or Celtic B winning the championship regularly and blocking teams promotion. It would make a mockery of Scottish football
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Disagree because there's no development path for younger players in Scotland after the age of 18 even more so with no reserve league for example. Need to bridge the gap between 18s football and throwing kids straight into men's football and it's the reason why we have the Lowland League to try aid player development.

It works in other countries so why not do it here? You go through the Dutch 2nd league in the last 20 years only Ajax out the clubs that have Jong teams in the league have won that division and they've only done it once. I doubt we would ever get to the stage where we are using older players in the championship.
 
Skylon Niagara said:
I’d much rather see teams like Pollok, Talbot, Darvel, Clydebank, Kilwinning be in tier 5 pushing for proper promotion than having B teams stalling progression for clubs

Have our B team playing elite academy’s in friendlies in addition to a reserve league
Click to expand...

Other elite academies such as Ajax and Benfica play in their league systems. If its good enough for them its good enough for us.
 
The idea that B teams are the reason that the Dutch and Spanish do so well ignores the very limited impact that B team football has in Germany. German B sides typically play in regional leagues. A couple of them will sometimes have a run in 3.Liga. You're more likely to see German sides loaning their better youngsters out to teams in 3.Liga or Bundesliga 2 than to rely on their B teams playing in the German regional leagues.

If we don't improve everything that happens before kids hit 18/19 years of age then playing them against low level professionals won't make a bit of difference. We still won't produce good players. We also need to abandon this notion that teams can't play 20/21 year olds because of the risk involved. If a 20 year old can't be relied on to be part of Rangers' squad and to come on as a sub, or to start some games against weaker opposition, then they're never going to be good enough. Neither Rangers nor Celtic have developed good enough youngsters beyond that critical mid teens age where we lost Gilmour to Chelsea and the striker who went to Villa. Patterson was a massive exception - you need to go back to Alan Hutton to see the player before him who was developed by the club, played for Rangers first team as a young player and who then moved on for strong money.

There are very good reasons why we should change the league set-up in Scotland. My own preference would be 3 leagues of 16 teams, a proper winter break, fewer midweek games and a change to the cup competitions. But changing to accommodate B teams isnt going to magically fix our game.
 
Skylon Niagara said:
I’d much rather see teams like Pollok, Talbot, Darvel, Clydebank, Kilwinning be in tier 5 pushing for proper promotion than having B teams stalling progression for clubs

Have our B team playing elite academy’s in friendlies in addition to a reserve league
Click to expand...
Problem is the facilities at these clubs is absolutely dire and they don't have the money to invest in infrastructure. The second they start channelling the limited funds they have away from playing staff (failed pros dropping to junior to earn more and be the big fish) to upgrade changing rooms and spectator areas they will not be pushing for anything. They will never sustain full time football either.

A radical overhaul of the professional game is required. I used to think a smaller league say 16 or 18 but maybe a 24 team full time top league and regionalising everything below that with end-of-season competitions for promotion would be brilliant. 'Colt'/B teams should play in their own league structure or a reserve league with high minimum number of U21 players in every squad and starting XI.
 
They need to move the B team fixtures to Broadwood too, bigger stadium in a pretty central and easily accessible location.
 
The pyramid system needs looked at. It's completely stacked against the Lowland/Highland league teams getting up. There should be an automatic relegation from League 2.

In saying that, Darvel are a horrible club. Rich owners using it as a play thing...how long until they get bored? They have absolutely no fans and their rise won't be sustainable long term. As soon as any of the money men pull out they'll go into free fall.
 
CaptainStaunch said:
But is not a similar scenario to Gretna with Brookson? If something happens to their current benefactor it all goes pear-shaped?
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That could be said for every single club, no matter their league. What would happen to the EPL if the owners just said "we've had enough, ditch it"
 
Good. Scottish football needs to do what's best for the professional game. Part time clubs that will never amount to anything have far too big a say in how the game is run.
 
Skylon Niagara said:
They’re playing against glorified amateurs in the lowland league. I don’t see how playing in lower leagues readies any player to play for our first team

Look at Josh mcpake, doing relatively well in Championship and was highly touted for us but he’s absolutely no where near being good enough. Playing against amateurs would’ve done 0 for his development
Click to expand...

You're saying amateurs but you do realise a large percentage of those playing at lowland level will be ex pros? Guys like Kirk Broadfoot is playing for Open Goal. I know loads of guys playing at that level who were previously in the lower leagues.

The standard between some lowland teams and league 1/2 isn't that big at all.
 
It’s already pretty difficult to get into the Lowland league. Winners of East, West and South prem have to play a round robin and winner goes up. Only bottom goes down. There are a few teams in the lowland league who are well past their sell by date.
 
AchtungBaby said:
To be honest, I'd rather see ambitious teams like Darvel and the other big junior teams getting their chance than some of the dross that makes up the lower league. Slamming the door on them iseliminating the opportunity for new teams with bigger fanbases to improve the Scottish game.
Click to expand...

Lower leagues?

The likes of Livingston & St Johnstone are shells of a football club - the latter's average attendances more than halved since 1999. Livingston are coached well but look at attendances and infrastructure?

Anyone investing in a junior club has a right good shout of progressing through the leagues in the current climate.
 
iaatpies said:
The idea that B teams are the reason that the Dutch and Spanish do so well ignores the very limited impact that B team football has in Germany. German B sides typically play in regional leagues. A couple of them will sometimes have a run in 3.Liga. You're more likely to see German sides loaning their better youngsters out to teams in 3.Liga or Bundesliga 2 than to rely on their B teams playing in the German regional leagues.

If we don't improve everything that happens before kids hit 18/19 years of age then playing them against low level professionals won't make a bit of difference. We still won't produce good players. We also need to abandon this notion that teams can't play 20/21 year olds because of the risk involved. If a 20 year old can't be relied on to be part of Rangers' squad and to come on as a sub, or to start some games against weaker opposition, then they're never going to be good enough. Neither Rangers nor Celtic have developed good enough youngsters beyond that critical mid teens age where we lost Gilmour to Chelsea and the striker who went to Villa. Patterson was a massive exception - you need to go back to Alan Hutton to see the player before him who was developed by the club, played for Rangers first team as a young player and who then moved on for strong money.

There are very good reasons why we should change the league set-up in Scotland. My own preference would be 3 leagues of 16 teams, a proper winter break, fewer midweek games and a change to the cup competitions. But changing to accommodate B teams isnt going to magically fix our game.
Click to expand...

With 3 leagues of 16, is that a 30 game season, or would you still incorporate some kind of split?

I’m not strictly saying you are wrong, but one of the factors for smaller clubs is the matchday income and I don’t see them looking to significantly reduce that.
 
Skylon Niagara said:
They’re playing against glorified amateurs in the lowland league. I don’t see how playing in lower leagues readies any player to play for our first team

Look at Josh mcpake, doing relatively well in Championship and was highly touted for us but he’s absolutely no where near being good enough. Playing against amateurs would’ve done 0 for his development
Click to expand...

You know that many SPL sides don't have a youth team right? There wouldn't be enough for a league and it wouldn't be remotely competitive enough.

Playing in League 2 to Championship would be very good for the Old Firm and could eventually for the national team. Whether it would be good for the rest of the clubs down there, I doubt it. Slightly torn, but overall the greater good should be prioritised.
 
ArmchairBear said:
With 3 leagues of 16, is that a 30 game season, or would you still incorporate some kind of split?

I’m not strictly saying you are wrong, but one of the factors for smaller clubs is the matchday income and I don’t see them looking to significantly reduce that.
Click to expand...

I'd go for a 30 game season.

I'd also revamp the cup competitions. I'd punt this nonsense of non-Scottish sides from the lower league cup. There are enough sides to have a lower league competition comprising on League 1, League 2 and the pyramid set up.
 
Walty72 said:
I know it'll never happen but our B teams would be so much better if they were playing at a higher level. For instance when Barca and Real Madrid B's used to play in the second tier of Spanish football.
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And what do the Spanish know about developing quality footballers?
 
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