Wordy_Rappinghood
Well-Known Member
I dunno, I agree we need to spread the net but in this case we have a manager plugged into that market and he'll know where to look.
The persistence with English based players
- Thread starter El Mas Loco
- Start date
El Mas Loco
Well-Known Member
He was borderline I'll admit, but if you spend 4m on a player and he spends 2 seasons injured then he can hardly be considered a success.
The_Joker
Well-Known Member
I'm sure he'll be devastated.
Roofe was our top goalscorer the season we won the league but aye he's a failure.
Novichok
Well-Known Member
11 with, off top of my head, 3 plus MOTM awards.
Appreciate it doesn't support your argument, but you honestly saying the jury us out and you need more time to watch him?
Less than 2m quid he cost us. Sensational signing. Plenty more of these in England and MB has a nose for them.
El Mas Loco
Well-Known Member
Lets hope so because the last 10 years watching the rats win just about everything hasn't been pleasant.
PrivateAye72
Well-Known Member
Most sensible thing you have said.
Laudrup11Cooper
Well-Known Member
You make a good pint.
Unfortunately, level of player we need, our mgmt do not seem to have much faith in, coming from abroad.Which I find equally baffling and disappointing.
We need to cast our net out further a field.Like ‘they’ did.
I sincerely hope Stuart Gibson, is brought onto the board, and we start utilizing
1/ his business acumen, and
2/ his impressive knowledge of the Asian market.On and off the pitch.
Beale typically is starting to go after players he knows from his past.
But considering he has only managed properly at two clubs although has coached, as had Banfield and the team, at many other English ones on and off, I think we will see a host of younger players not quite hit their mark, at even League One or Championship level arriving.
Which for me will not cut it,either against them or in Europe.
Time will tell.
But one thing for sure.
He can’t afford to get this recruitment wrong this summer.
Neither, can Rangers as a club.
Orange County
Well-Known Member
Holt was a very very good signing for where we were at at the time and what we paid for him, he more than contributed and paid that back.
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Orange County
Well-Known Member
Bang average or below average players with little ambition .
Thats why our trophy haul is 2, when we should be winning 2 per season.
We were below that level at that time, all 3 contributed significantly to us getting promoted. Hardly failures.
Or did you expect us to sign Champions League level players when in the Scottish Championship?
Don’t be silly, the OP would be fuming if we were linked with Messi, because Federico Nieto was a failure.
Could it be we are just poor at identifying a good player, couldn’t give you loads of examples but the Brentford and Leeds side were packed with talent that have either went for big bux or worth big bux while in the championship. Not saying we could have afforded them all but we spent £7m on an academy player, quite sure we could have got some of their players for that or about that.
We just need to be better at what we do.
We just need to be better at what we do.
TheDerryend
Well-Known Member
Maybe because we can't go out and sign, Terry Butcher, Gary Steven's, Chris woods and the many others from down south. As for foreign players, we won't be buying a Brian Laudrup or Dutch internationals, when Holland were a far better team than they are now. Basically we've got to scrape the barrel and hope it works out.
These players were all here when we had dominance in Scottish football. We won't be signing any more of these top class players. Before they came, we certainly weren't the dominant club as it was mainly them, with a few years of Aberdeen/Dundee Utd.
As I've posted before on here, my first game was 1969 and I only seen Rangers win the league 3 times, up until Souness arrived in 86. Being 2nd, 3rd or 4th is nothing new to me.
These players were all here when we had dominance in Scottish football. We won't be signing any more of these top class players. Before they came, we certainly weren't the dominant club as it was mainly them, with a few years of Aberdeen/Dundee Utd.
As I've posted before on here, my first game was 1969 and I only seen Rangers win the league 3 times, up until Souness arrived in 86. Being 2nd, 3rd or 4th is nothing new to me.
Clearly it's not the market that's the problem.
Valley Bluenose
RTV? Completed it mate!
Here's a direct comparison. We've signed 22 players on permanent contracts over the last 3 seasons. 11 from England, 11 from elsewhere. Where do you see the best value/success rate? Info mostly from Transfermarkt.
ENGLAND - circa £7m
Cantwell - circa £1.5m
Lawrence - circa £1m
Davies - circa £4m
Bacuna - circa £2m (subsequently sold for a marginal profit)
Lundstram - out of contract
Ofoborh - out of contract
Defoe - out of contract
Balogun - out of contract
McLaughlin - out of contract
Simpson - no fee reported but would have been low as soon to be out-of-contract
Bassey - out of contract (subsequently sold for minimum £19m)
RoW - circa £22m
Yilmaz - circa £4m
Matondo - circa £2.5m
Souttar - out of contract
Raskin - circa £1.5m
Colak - circa £2m
Zukowski - circa £0.5m
Sakala - out of contract
Itten - circa £3m (subsequently sold for circa £1.5m)
Wright - circa £0.25m
Roofe - circa £4.5m
Hagi - circa £3.5m
ENGLAND - circa £7m
Cantwell - circa £1.5m
Lawrence - circa £1m
Davies - circa £4m
Bacuna - circa £2m (subsequently sold for a marginal profit)
Lundstram - out of contract
Ofoborh - out of contract
Defoe - out of contract
Balogun - out of contract
McLaughlin - out of contract
Simpson - no fee reported but would have been low as soon to be out-of-contract
Bassey - out of contract (subsequently sold for minimum £19m)
RoW - circa £22m
Yilmaz - circa £4m
Matondo - circa £2.5m
Souttar - out of contract
Raskin - circa £1.5m
Colak - circa £2m
Zukowski - circa £0.5m
Sakala - out of contract
Itten - circa £3m (subsequently sold for circa £1.5m)
Wright - circa £0.25m
Roofe - circa £4.5m
Hagi - circa £3.5m
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BigDadosBandage.
Well-Known Member
Ok, for the sake of being pragmatic, how about a list of successes and failures we've signed from outwith England.
The issue hasn't been with where the players have been playing, it's been the players themselves or where we have been as a club the time.. Where they have come from has got nothing to do with it.
The issue hasn't been with where the players have been playing, it's been the players themselves or where we have been as a club the time.. Where they have come from has got nothing to do with it.
Interesting considering one is now a Premier League goalkeeper and the other has had several multi million pound moves in England.
giogaddi
Well-Known Member
Someone on another thread said Chris Willock is a Hibs/Aberdeen type signing. I wonder what year some people live in.
In the 55 season, 23 players played over 10 games for us.
Players signed from England: 12
That doesn't include Roofe and Kamara, who came through the English academy system.
Just because there have been a few which haven't worked out does not mean it hasn't been successful.
Players signed from England: 12
That doesn't include Roofe and Kamara, who came through the English academy system.
Just because there have been a few which haven't worked out does not mean it hasn't been successful.
El Mas Loco
Well-Known Member
You keep waffling on about permanent signings as if all the other dross we’ve had doesn’t count. Whether we signed them on a permanent contract, whether we got them on loan, whether they never kicked a ball, the point is that we’ve signed the majority of our players from England and the majority of them have been pish. Hence we’ve barely %^*& all in 11 years. So maybe, just maybe we should try looking somewhere else.
If winning trophies or being transferred for a profit are the OP’s only criteria for deciding a player’s success or otherwise then by those measures Harry Kane, England’s captain and record goal scorer, is a failure in spite of being pretty well universally recognised as one of the World’s top players.
I would also consider Matthew Le Tissier, who Southampton fans nicknamed Le God, to have been a success in spite of the OP’s criteria.
I think more sensible criteria are in order.
I would also consider Matthew Le Tissier, who Southampton fans nicknamed Le God, to have been a success in spite of the OP’s criteria.
I think more sensible criteria are in order.
Novichok
Well-Known Member
Thanks for pulling this together. Blows the OP argument out of the water.
So how many games are required, in addition to trophy wins and being sold for a tidy profit to be considered a success?
Remember too that, for example, a large number of the support reckoned that during his first two seasons with us Goldson was at best pretty poor.
El Mas Loco
Well-Known Member
I actually think Goldson is shite but couldn’t be bothered arguing with everybody about that one so put him as a success.
There's no logical, rational argument to say we "should" be winning 2 trophies a season - that's just based on "we're Rangers".
We could, but right now, as it stands, that lot are the "should win" team. We're working to change that.
Orange County
Well-Known Member
We had it for a year, lost the emphasise .
God knows how we will get it back with this squad and the future incoming players.
They dont look like imploding like they did under Lennon.
So much for Kings pack of cards, its us thats happened too.
Utilising a property investor's on the pitch knowledge of the Asian market?
This place never fails to amaze.
Orange County
Well-Known Member
We should be aiming for better though.
Next season to me will define Beale and Bennett .
Beale is not knew to Rangers, he has spent 4 out of the past 5 years at the club.
Laudrup11Cooper
Well-Known Member
So you own a business do you?
Probably the same type of posters who said they wouldn't take Giroud or Suarez as us.
I can't remember how I felt at the time, but looking back now with further evidence - I don't think we had the advantage we believed we did when we won 55.
They had as many, if not more, sellable assets in terms of players, and were still breaking about even during the pandemic year when we were losing £20m.
And that's only that one year. Their financial advantage since we came back into the league must be in the hundreds of millions.
If any support knows that what's happening off the pitch has an effect on it, it's us. They could afford that bad year - if we hadn't made the EL final then the CL we'd be struggling even more I reckon.
If you think Goldson isn’t one of our successes I really wonder why you follow Rangers. You may be better following such as Man City as they have a few decent players.
I think you need to adjust your understanding of where we are in the ability to attract players. As others have said the days of us attracting the like of Butcher, Woods, Wilkins, Gascogne, Laudrup et al are gone.
The players we can afford, be that to pay transfer fees for or more likely wages, are those who inhabit the lower English divisions and leagues such as Turkey and Belgium. We inhabit a league that is, being polite, not a great attraction for foreign players.
English players I fancy probably know more about us and particularly while we’ve had English managers see us as a better bet than some foreign leagues, which may explain why we can secure the services of EFL players for reasonable outlay.
How many times has it been said that players from foreign leagues don’t ‘understand’ the type of football that prevails in the SPFL Premiership, in other words they aren’t used to opponents being allowed to kick them up and down the pitch, which is more akin to that played in the EFL and that is why they are in general terms better suited to our league and presumably why they are more likely to be successful. From memory I think Cedric Itten recently said much the same thing and no-one can believe that Fabio Cardozo having had his nose rearranged and now a Porto player and being in the recent preliminary (55 man) Portugal national team World Cup squad would say otherwise.
El Mas Loco
Well-Known Member
Cuellar
Weir
Bougherra
3 off the top of my head who cost less and were far superior to Goldson.
You're a bit of a strange character
Valley Bluenose
RTV? Completed it mate!
Its fairly evident we do look elsewhere. The very post you quote confirms this. It also indicates, as clear as day, that the vast amount of our transfer fees goes on players from overseas and not on overpriced pish - as you would have it - from England.
The issue we have is signing pish - its not where we sign them from. As the vast majority of folk on this thread have told you numerous times.
Never mind signing pish - maybe, just maybe, you should stop talking pish. Its quite incredible that after a full day at it you still don't realise you've got this so badly wrong. You are indeed 'The Craziest One'.
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The_Joker
Well-Known Member
And signed 15 years apart. You don't really understand money, do you?
The_Joker
Well-Known Member
My god, a braid dead moron if ever I've seen one. I haven't put anyone on ignore yet. You're first on the list.
Lovenkrands26
Well-Known Member
Close the thread ffs, this is a lost cause.
Valley Bluenose
RTV? Completed it mate!
Two of them signed from that English market you hate so much I note.
Fees weren't vastly different in two of the three cases either, based on Transfermarkt, and they were more than a decade apart from Goldson - Cuellar £3m, Boughera £3.25m and Goldson £3.4m. Davie Weir, of course, was out of contract.
Number Six
Well-Known Member
Some of those fails are funny
Some are down to injuries which has nothing to do with what country we signed them from
The OP is, in my view, absolutely wrong as I note a significant number of other posters having alluded to and some have come right out and said.
However, I consider his opinion as he detailed in his OP exhibits an important point, that many among our support don’t appear to display an understanding of where we have been, what the club management have been attempting to do through the journey back, the front end loading that resulted in 55, the potentially ruinous £23m loss during the 55 season, the need to achieve profitability which has been achieved, the handcuffs that the UEFA Financial Sustainability rules place on our squad cost spending and how football finance is shaped.
Many fail, or refuse, to understand that the club must not, at risk of possible UEFA sanctions, spend what we might not earn in future years if we fail to qualify for CL or EL group stage competition losing out on possibly £10m - £20m revenue each season. It’s a sad fact that we need to operate within our revenue, we don’t have a £50m deposit account we can dip into as the scum have, and we need to realise this.
Undoubtedly some signings will prove to be better than others but we need to be sensible in that probably no more than at best 50%, I reckon, will achieve B or above on a scale of A to E. Think of your own work, how many of your colleagues would you award A or B to. Those who don’t work out, Grezda, Barton, Cardozo, Bacuna to name but four move them out when possible but realise that‘s just part of football life.
However, I consider his opinion as he detailed in his OP exhibits an important point, that many among our support don’t appear to display an understanding of where we have been, what the club management have been attempting to do through the journey back, the front end loading that resulted in 55, the potentially ruinous £23m loss during the 55 season, the need to achieve profitability which has been achieved, the handcuffs that the UEFA Financial Sustainability rules place on our squad cost spending and how football finance is shaped.
Many fail, or refuse, to understand that the club must not, at risk of possible UEFA sanctions, spend what we might not earn in future years if we fail to qualify for CL or EL group stage competition losing out on possibly £10m - £20m revenue each season. It’s a sad fact that we need to operate within our revenue, we don’t have a £50m deposit account we can dip into as the scum have, and we need to realise this.
Undoubtedly some signings will prove to be better than others but we need to be sensible in that probably no more than at best 50%, I reckon, will achieve B or above on a scale of A to E. Think of your own work, how many of your colleagues would you award A or B to. Those who don’t work out, Grezda, Barton, Cardozo, Bacuna to name but four move them out when possible but realise that‘s just part of football life.
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BlueSevenTwo
Well-Known Member
Poster will be devastated.
The_Joker
Well-Known Member
Bulletproof
Well-Known Member
We signed Josh Windass for diddly, he scored some goals for us and then he left for near 3 mill. We disagree on what a "failure" means.
Even Waghorn, we got him for pennies, he did a good job in the Championship and he left. Not as if we paid millions for him with no return (ie. Pena).
