Michael Beale has a huge issue with coaching midfielders

O

OdinSphere

Member
After near enough 5 years of watching our midfields with Beale at the club I think I can safely say that the man has a huge flaw in how he wants his teams to set up.

The issue for me is that he effectively wants all his midfielders to play as "water carriers" - Dropping into defence to pick up the ball, covering fullbacks, recycling the ball and keeping shape etc - the type of role Glen Kamara excelled in for us is basically what he's asking of players who just aren't suited to it and it's honestly setting us back more than anything else going on with the team right now.

Even during our title winning season our midfield simply was not ever a creative force.

Gio actually tried to change things when he was here and never had the tools for it because the guys who were here before were never coached to play that way.

Now we have players who are capable of being that - guys like Nico Raskin, Cantwell and possibly even Cifuentes - they want to be playing on the front foot as much as possible like we saw from them when they first arrived. These guys are capable of stamping their authority on the game, driving us forward, winning duels and being creative & they simply aren't allowed to by Beale.

During Gerrard's time in charge a lot of the complaints were the same about our midfield. I remember people wanting us to go out and spend major money on that area of the park, but imo the issue has never been about personnel - this is exactly what Veerman would have been asked to do if we actually managed to get him too.

Michael Beale's time has to be up. The man needs to learn how to coach a functioning midfield if he ever wants to have a future in the game at a decent level IMO.
 
In the title winning season our midfielders (Davis, Kamara, Jack, Hagi, Aribo, Arfield) scored 29 goals and had 34 assists in all competitions, I’d say that’s better than ‘never being a creative force’.

Funnily enough we’ve just let go a guy responsible for nearly 50% of those assists.
 
It’s tactics. Again.

It’s all tactics.

We had a team that smashed the bead rattlers and ran them over in midfield only a few months ago - then took that team, changed our whole approach to fit in a suite of players that don’t work together and sacrificed the area we were strongest in.

Cantwell and raskin look shadows of themselves.

Cifu is being asked to play in a way that doesn’t fit him.

It’s %^*& all to do about coaching and a lot to do about dreadful management
 
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Portadown_Bear said:
Remember when we had a midfield which cost £55k that was competing with some really good teams across Europe?
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Remember the current manager dropped Raskin and Cantwell in a cup final for Lundstrum??

OP is correct, Beale should have been chased that night. Doesn't have a clue and now we are suffering.

Why he hasn't been sacked on Monday is taking the piss tbh.
 
Big_Marvin_Andrews said:
Remember the current manager dropped Raskin and Cantwell in a cup final for Lundstrum??

OP is correct, Beale should have been chased that night. Doesn't have a clue and now we are suffering.

Why he hasn't been sacked on Monday is taking the piss tbh.
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That has nothing to do with coaching,

It’s tactical horror show.
 
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He doesn't have a clue about coaching full stop. He's an academy manager at best, playing football manager in real life.

He should be gone by now but we all know it's not going to happen until it's too late.
 
I think we're all guilty of getting too excited on Raskin. He was the new fire because he was something different but the reality is he's been very, very average since he came here. His passing is very poor a lot of the time.

Cifuentes the jury is still out on but he looks a bit lazy to me and I'm not sure if he's got the passing range we need in that position either in all honesty.

Cantwell is brilliant but needs coached to stay in dangerous areas and not to pick the ball up at left back etc.

Won't be popular but I'd argue that we've moved too far away from having defensively sound midfielders that can cover the full backs. Now instead of having a solid base we've got players who look lost and don't know what to do or where to play.

As another poster said - it's all coaching and tactics. A different manager gets more from this group than Beale is.
 
Portadown_Bear said:
Remember when we had a midfield which cost £55k that was competing with some really good teams across Europe?
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The most important thing we had was a team that worked hard and was hard to play against.

Rite now I can simply put it we look feeble and the defence needed a commander in there but we never got anyone which still baffles me.
 
MikeRoss said:
In the title winning season our midfielders (Davis, Kamara, Jack, Hagi, Aribo, Arfield) scored 29 goals and had 34 assists in all competitions, I’d say that’s better than ‘never being a creative force’.

Funnily enough we’ve just let go a guy responsible for nearly 50% of those assists.
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We do well at selling productive players.
 
BigBadJohn said:
I think we're all guilty of getting too excited on Raskin. He was the new fire because he was something different but the reality is he's been very, very average since he came here. His passing is very poor a lot of the time.

Cifuentes the jury is still out on but he looks a bit lazy to me and I'm not sure if he's got the passing range we need in that position either in all honesty.

Cantwell is brilliant but needs coached to stay in dangerous areas and not to pick the ball up at left back etc.

Won't be popular but I'd argue that we've moved too far away from having defensively sound midfielders that can cover the full backs. Now instead of having a solid base we've got players who look lost and don't know what to do or where to play.

As another poster said - it's all coaching and tactics. A different manager gets more from this group than Beale is.
Click to expand...
Jack is superb at covering the full backs when deployed to do that like he was under SG.
 
BigBadJohn said:
I think we're all guilty of getting too excited on Raskin. He was the new fire because he was something different but the reality is he's been very, very average since he came here. His passing is very poor a lot of the time.

Cifuentes the jury is still out on but he looks a bit lazy to me and I'm not sure if he's got the passing range we need in that position either in all honesty.

Cantwell is brilliant but needs coached to stay in dangerous areas and not to pick the ball up at left back etc.

Won't be popular but I'd argue that we've moved too far away from having defensively sound midfielders that can cover the full backs. Now instead of having a solid base we've got players who look lost and don't know what to do or where to play.

As another poster said - it's all coaching and tactics. A different manager gets more from this group than Beale is.
Click to expand...
I've not seen anything from Raskin to justify the hype. He's been bang average so far. Cifuentes is too early to judge.
 
GioBAWA said:
Jack is superb at covering the full backs when deployed to do that like he was under SG.
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He is, but Beale doesn't want this current midfield to do that. He's trying to get them to be running forward but it isn't working. The result is a final third that looks congested and that we struggle to play through.
 
Damian Matthew apparently is the man who trains and coaches the midfielders.

A guy who played just over 70 games in 10 years down south.
 
What has been really noticeable to me is Tav and Jack are really laboured when running. I've not seen either of them break in to a full on sprint. They've both lost a few yards of pace. I don't know if they are carrying an injury or if age has caught up with them.
 
BigBadJohn said:
I think we're all guilty of getting too excited on Raskin. He was the new fire because he was something different but the reality is he's been very, very average since he came here. His passing is very poor a lot of the time.

Cifuentes the jury is still out on but he looks a bit lazy to me and I'm not sure if he's got the passing range we need in that position either in all honesty.

Cantwell is brilliant but needs coached to stay in dangerous areas and not to pick the ball up at left back etc.

Won't be popular but I'd argue that we've moved too far away from having defensively sound midfielders that can cover the full backs. Now instead of having a solid base we've got players who look lost and don't know what to do or where to play.

As another poster said - it's all coaching and tactics. A different manager gets more from this group than Beale is.
Click to expand...
Cifuentes started against Argentina two days ago, and Rangers fans think he can’t play against Dundee and St Mirren :oops:
 
Big_Marvin_Andrews said:
Confirms the current manager is a joke though.
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I think joke is maybe on the harsh side, he’s a good guy but completely unprepared for managing a club of our size.

I may yet reach March and think “good god I was wrong” - but I fear he is a coach who puts together a good PowerPoint and is persuasive to c-suite
 
When it comes to coaching I believe he over thinks it sometimes its best just to pick your best player's in their best positions in a system that they understand
Instead we have bought player's and tried to change them to suit some bizarre system that very few understand
He looks out of his depth
 
Big_Marvin_Andrews said:
Remember the current manager dropped Raskin and Cantwell in a cup final for Lundstrum??

OP is correct, Beale should have been chased that night. Doesn't have a clue and now we are suffering.

Why he hasn't been sacked on Monday is taking the piss tbh.
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Would it have made a difference?

Very few players have good old firm debuts.

I can also remember a time when our fans thought John Lundstrum was the best on earth.
 
Big_Marvin_Andrews said:
Remember the current manager dropped Raskin and Cantwell in a cup final for Lundstrum??

OP is correct, Beale should have been chased that night. Doesn't have a clue and now we are suffering.

Why he hasn't been sacked on Monday is taking the piss tbh.
Click to expand...

He utterly fucked it that day.

Again, they were there for the taking but he shat the bed and neutered us with his serial overthinking.

Bin him and put him and us out our misery.
 
Portadown_Bear said:
Would it have made a difference?

Very few players have good old firm debuts.

I can also remember a time when our fans thought John Lundstrum was the best on earth.
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Big bad John where has he gone I’d love to know he chased everything down.
 
MikeRoss said:
In the title winning season our midfielders (Davis, Kamara, Jack, Hagi, Aribo, Arfield) scored 29 goals and had 34 assists in all competitions, I’d say that’s better than ‘never being a creative force’.

Funnily enough we’ve just let go a guy responsible for nearly 50% of those assists.
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I know it’s completely unstaunch to talk about it, but the more time passes the more obvious it becomes the exceptionally unusual circumstances of that season were a major factor too.
 
Tequila said:
It’s tactics. Again.

It’s all tactics.

We took a team that smashed the bead rattlers and ran them over in midfield only a few months ago - then took that team, changed our whole approach to fit in a suite of players that don’t work together and sacrificed the area we were strongest in.

Cantwell and raskin look shadows of themselves.

Cifu is being asked to play in a way that doesn’t fit him.

It’s %^*& all to do about coaching and a lot to do about dreadful management
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Totally agree. We’re so focused on the ever popular counter pressing.

Unless we win it high and succeed getting it into the net in less than 30 seconds, our team is in no position to effectively retain possession. Midfield that is so far apart, no width from forwards to play into, means we’re easily crowed out in the middle of the park and lose it all too often.

There’s a reason the 4 4 2 is dead as the most common formation, it was when teams put 3 in the middle the 2 couldn’t compete.

Beale has us effectively with 1 in there.
 
Sorry to the OP, but that’s nonsense.

In the side Beale built with Gerrard we had guys like Aribo, Davis, Hagi and Arfield that supplied flair and goals. Only really Kamara and Jack could be said to be the ‘water carriers’ in more defensive roles.

The big issue for me now is that we have no one like Davis or Barry Ferguson that can control a game for us and dictate play. We saw McGregor do this last weekend for them and we badly lack a player like that, IMO.

I had thought Raskin might be that guy, but he looks nowhere near it to date and this leaves us with nobody that can create and link us middle to front.
 
The manager will never have what it takes to remove the shackles he puts on the midfield. The board should have acted by now, as it’s looking already as if it’s another wasted season. If Beale is sacked the first thing a real manager even caretaker manager will do is remove the shackles.
 
Bobby Russell said:
Damian Matthew apparently is the man who trains and coaches the midfielders.

A guy who played just over 70 games in 10 years down south.
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Not sure that’s too relevant. Bill Struth, our most successful manager, was a runner not a footballer when he was younger. He won 30 major titles including 18 league titles with Rangers.
 
ICA_86 said:
Cifuentes started against Argentina two days ago, and Rangers fans think he can’t play against Dundee and St Mirren :oops:
Click to expand...

That's a weird way to put things. Anyone who played against a good side must be good? Not sure I'm following the logic with that one mate.

I can only judge him on what I've seen and he's been hit and miss so far. Against PSV he was really poor both legs. Had a couple decent moments in other games.

Early days to be fair so hopefully he either gets better for us (best case) or if he continues to be shite I hope his national team play someone else good soon so you can be happy.
 
BigBadJohn said:
I think we're all guilty of getting too excited on Raskin. He was the new fire because he was something different but the reality is he's been very, very average since he came here. His passing is very poor a lot of the time.

Cifuentes the jury is still out on but he looks a bit lazy to me and I'm not sure if he's got the passing range we need in that position either in all honesty.

Cantwell is brilliant but needs coached to stay in dangerous areas and not to pick the ball up at left back etc.

Won't be popular but I'd argue that we've moved too far away from having defensively sound midfielders that can cover the full backs. Now instead of having a solid base we've got players who look lost and don't know what to do or where to play.

As another poster said - it's all coaching and tactics. A different manager gets more from this group than Beale is.
Click to expand...
Excellent post bud. Lundstram for all his faults is best suited to how Beale wants to play.
We miss peak Kamara and Davis.
 
OdinSphere said:
After near enough 5 years of watching our midfields with Beale at the club I think I can safely say that the man has a huge flaw in how he wants his teams to set up.

The issue for me is that he effectively wants all his midfielders to play as "water carriers" - Dropping into defence to pick up the ball, covering fullbacks, recycling the ball and keeping shape etc - the type of role Glen Kamara excelled in for us is basically what he's asking of players who just aren't suited to it and it's honestly setting us back more than anything else going on with the team right now.

Even during our title winning season our midfield simply was not ever a creative force.

Gio actually tried to change things when he was here and never had the tools for it because the guys who were here before were never coached to play that way.

Now we have players who are capable of being that - guys like Nico Raskin, Cantwell and possibly even Cifuentes - they want to be playing on the front foot as much as possible like we saw from them when they first arrived. These guys are capable of stamping their authority on the game, driving us forward, winning duels and being creative & they simply aren't allowed to by Beale.

During Gerrard's time in charge a lot of the complaints were the same about our midfield. I remember people wanting us to go out and spend major money on that area of the park, but imo the issue has never been about personnel - this is exactly what Veerman would have been asked to do if we actually managed to get him too.

Michael Beale's time has to be up. The man needs to learn how to coach a functioning midfield if he ever wants to have a future in the game at a decent level IMO.
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Beale out I think is what you’re trying to say?
 
MikeRoss said:
In the title winning season our midfielders (Davis, Kamara, Jack, Hagi, Aribo, Arfield) scored 29 goals and had 34 assists in all competitions, I’d say that’s better than ‘never being a creative force’.

Funnily enough we’ve just let go a guy responsible for nearly 50% of those assists.
Click to expand...
Hagi didn't play in the midfield 3
 
BigBadJohn said:
That's a weird way to put things. Anyone who played against a good side must be good? Not sure I'm following the logic with that one mate.

I can only judge him on what I've seen and he's been hit and miss so far. Against PSV he was really poor both legs. Had a couple decent moments in other games.

Early days to be fair so hopefully he either gets better for us (best case) or if he continues to be shite I hope his national team play someone else good soon so you can be happy.
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The guy has literally played less than five games’ worth of minutes and only appeared twice domestically.

I dunno, maybe give him a little bit of time before writing him off?

Just a thought.
 
ICA_86 said:
The guy has literally played less than five games’ worth of minutes and only appeared twice domestically.

I dunno, maybe give him a little bit of time before writing him off?

Just a thought.
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I agree that's why I mentioned it was early days/jury still out in both my posts.
 
ICA_86 said:
Imagine two out of our three didn’t need to babysit our defensively inadequate fullbacks.

A man can dream.
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Exactly the problem our full backs who can't do their job,why can't people see this ,I've been banging on about it for a few seasons it's not a new thing,we have had Beale saying his captain is a great player and is not moving and we have had Tav being questioned about his ability saying he is playing well ,God help us.
 
Having some dumplings up front a million miles from a midfield way back in the other half points to bad tacitcs, recruitment and coaching perhaps.
 
RangersLad1983 said:
Exactly the problem our full backs who can't do their job,why can't people see this ,I've been banging on about it for a few seasons it's not a new thing,we have had Beale saying his captain is a great player and is not moving and we have had Tav being questioned about his ability saying he is playing well ,God help us.
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Why can't people see that the full backs are doing exactly what asked of them
It appears to be easier to blame those 2 players than anyone else ,it must be great being a midfielder with us ,no matter how bad you play it's never their fault
 
Lundstram had been pretty decent leading up to the old firm game and he dropped him. Guarantee he's back next game ..danilo will start dessers will be benched ..lammers will start ..raskin will be benched and round and round we go...assuming mb is still here.
 
OdinSphere said:
After near enough 5 years of watching our midfields with Beale at the club I think I can safely say that the man has a huge flaw in how he wants his teams to set up.

The issue for me is that he effectively wants all his midfielders to play as "water carriers" - Dropping into defence to pick up the ball, covering fullbacks, recycling the ball and keeping shape etc - the type of role Glen Kamara excelled in for us is basically what he's asking of players who just aren't suited to it and it's honestly setting us back more than anything else going on with the team right now.

Even during our title winning season our midfield simply was not ever a creative force.

Gio actually tried to change things when he was here and never had the tools for it because the guys who were here before were never coached to play that way.

Now we have players who are capable of being that - guys like Nico Raskin, Cantwell and possibly even Cifuentes - they want to be playing on the front foot as much as possible like we saw from them when they first arrived. These guys are capable of stamping their authority on the game, driving us forward, winning duels and being creative & they simply aren't allowed to by Beale.

During Gerrard's time in charge a lot of the complaints were the same about our midfield. I remember people wanting us to go out and spend major money on that area of the park, but imo the issue has never been about personnel - this is exactly what Veerman would have been asked to do if we actually managed to get him too.

Michael Beale's time has to be up. The man needs to learn how to coach a functioning midfield if he ever wants to have a future in the game at a decent level IMO.
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Dear oh dear what next!!
 
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