Gerrard on Grezda and Barisic

omegaman said:
We spent £4m on this pair.

They need to succeed otherwise questions will arise over the judgment of Gerrard and Allen in the transfer market.
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You can only go on what you see before they come in.
I wouldnt say questions need to be asked, they are decent players.
Its not for everyone in Scotland and whether they can adapt is another matter.

We have wasted a lot more the 4 million over the past 33 years post souness.
Flo was 3 times that nearly 20 years ago.
 
LOL 133 said:
King brought Gerrard in.

Is this the same MA who signed Sadiq?

Is this the same Mark Allen that agreed to take Ejaria on loan?

We can all point to pluses and minuses. My problem is he doesnt come across well when he talks and that makes me question his ability. I think he's another chancer and I think Gerrard is too much of a gentleman to say so.
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Give your brain a holiday.
 
Square and compass said:
You can only go on what you see before they come in.
I wouldnt say questions need to be asked, they are decent players.
Its not for everyone in Scotland and whether they can adapt is another matter.

We have wasted a lot more the 4 million over the past 33 years post souness.
Flo was 3 times that nearly 20 years ago.
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Flo was the pinnacle of Murray’s ruinous excess.

We’re a much leaner, tighter run outfit nowadays and £4m is a comparatively hefty chunk of our available resources to be spending on two players.

As I’ve said already, some players just won’t work out for whatever reason - it’s just the way it goes sometimes - but we recruited a DoF in part to minimise those failures.

So far you can easily argue that the recruitment has been generally good, but if, IF, Grezda and Barisic don’t come good for us, whatever the reasons, that will have an effect and there may very well be scrutiny of our approach in certain areas as a result.

I don’t think it’s in any way an outrageous opinion to hold, in fact it’s actually the responsible and pragmatic thing to do.
 
Art Corvelay said:
He was very good against Hibs and I would say this is flat out just wrong.



Agree with this.


No one has seen it, he hasn't been able to 'sustain' it. As I say - his injury problems might be a genuine issue, we don't know yet.



What? Not really sure what your point is here at all. If he had been £10m from a premier league club... he wouldn't be at Rangers. I think you need to understand the context here. No one is claiming he's David Alaba or Marcelo. He is however, more than good enough to be a key player in a Scottish premier league winning team. That much is very very clear.
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Plenty of people making claims about BB being the best LB in the country etc.
 
Grezda’s problem is that he needs games but we can’t afford a passenger while he gets up to speed with every opponent playing their cup final against us.
 
omegaman said:
We spent £4m on this pair.

They need to succeed otherwise questions will arise over the judgment of Gerrard and Allen in the transfer market.
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:eek:

Barasic struggling with injury and Grezda being a bit of a let down early on.

Yes, let's sack Gerrard & Allen.

I just saw your knee fly past my house it jerked that bad.
 
LOL 133 said:
King brought Gerrard in.

Is this the same MA who signed Sadiq?

Is this the same Mark Allen that agreed to take Ejaria on loan?

We can all point to pluses and minuses. My problem is he doesnt come across well when he talks and that makes me question his ability. I think he's another chancer and I think Gerrard is too much of a gentleman to say so.
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How is that the only way to question ability?

That really is nonsense
 
This idea that Gerrard and Allen need to get every transfer right or else there needs to be "accountability" is mental. Show me one team that hits every signing - even Madrid and Man City can't do it with limitless money!
 
omegaman said:
Flo was the pinnacle of Murray’s ruinous excess.

We’re a much leaner, tighter run outfit nowadays and £4m is a comparatively hefty chunk of our available resources to be spending on two players.

As I’ve said already, some players just won’t work out for whatever reason - it’s just the way it goes sometimes - but we recruited a DoF in part to minimise those failures.

So far you can easily argue that the recruitment has been generally good, but if, IF, Grezda and Barisic don’t come good for us, whatever the reasons, that will have an effect and there may very well be scrutiny of our approach in certain areas as a result.

I don’t think it’s in any way an outrageous opinion to hold, in fact it’s actually the responsible and pragmatic thing to do.
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Fair shout, i dont see us taking a hit like pena etc.
To me - barisic looks a great buy and we could get at least 4 million for him alone if he got a run of games.
He looks the part.
The grezda one worries me, so i think the 2 at the moment are a mixed bag.
At least we are not looking at pena, sadiq etc level.
After the pedro shambles, we do need to be more cute in the transfer market without a doubt.
 
LOL 133 said:
King brought Gerrard in.

Is this the same MA who signed Sadiq?

Is this the same Mark Allen that agreed to take Ejaria on loan?

We can all point to pluses and minuses. My problem is he doesnt come across well when he talks and that makes me question his ability. I think he's another chancer and I think Gerrard is too much of a gentleman to say so.
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You’re right.

A chancer who got away with it at Man City for years. Pep didn’t see it and neither does SG. You do, despite having zero interaction with him.
 
LOL 133 said:
King brought Gerrard in.

Is this the same MA who signed Sadiq?

Is this the same Mark Allen that agreed to take Ejaria on loan?

We can all point to pluses and minuses. My problem is he doesnt come across well when he talks and that makes me question his ability. I think he's another chancer and I think Gerrard is too much of a gentleman to say so.
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LOL indeed.
 
omegaman said:
We spent £4m on this pair.

They need to succeed otherwise questions will arise over the judgment of Gerrard and Allen in the transfer market.
Click to expand...
Yeh we need to make money from these buys in the long run, so first we need them consistently good performances from them! That £4m needs to become £12m-£16m in 2-3 yrs time.
 
We go from being 3rd in the league and getting humiliated in every OF game to challenging for the title while playing them off the park in the last game and performing beyond all expectations in Europe. We have now got a very strong spine of the team in place and have improved on the team again substantially in this window. I expect us to now add the consistency domestically which we have struggled with in the first part of the season.

Yet some people still look for every opportunity to have a go at Allen or Gerrard who have both performed beyond reasonable expectations. The break seems to have really brought out the nutters on this forum
 
This is nuts.

Neither of them have contributed the way £2million plus players should have in Scotland, I’ll go as far and say neither has shown anything 2 games in a row.

However Barisic seems to be getting better the longer he is out and Grezda worse ? How is that even possible.
 
Northampton_Loyalist said:
This comment is wilfully disingenuous.


There are 2 discrete issues spoken about, particularly on recent threads about Grezda and they are individual questions that lead to perhaps a bigger question:

Can Grezda be a good player for us is the first question and threads, the one I started is the one I am thinking of primarily, focused on the issues he has had, the difficulty in settling in etc.

This question is based purely on his physical and mental attributes and his potential as a player for us. People have, 100%, decided that he simply does not have what it takes to make it with us and other people have advocated giving him more time.

The second question is asking whether he was a gamble that should have been taken given our finite resources. I said myself on the thread that this was a perfectly valid question and that asking if we should have been taking on a young foreigner from a technical league, carrying an injury and in the context of our rebuild was a sensible move.

There is a very clear and very obvious dichotomy here and while the 2 questions are clearly related, the answer to one is nothing more than a base indicator for the other.

Grezda could, for example, turn out to be the best player we ever signed and that would NOT justify, necessarily, the gamble in bringing him in. Equally, he could flop and some might still argue that the risk was sufficiently low and the potential rewards sufficiently high to make it a gamble we HAD to take.


Your comment is actually meaningless and many, many degrees below the content on here you are capable of producing. Some people are adamant that Grezda will flop and others are willing to give him more time before writing him off. You are saying that the latter are apologists, which is, frankly, an utter nonsense in and by itself. What is worse though, is that you are either not understanding what Gerrard is saying in this article or you are deliberately twisting it to make a false point. Gerrard is not saying he thinks Grezda cannot make it, he is saying he needs to do more. Not one single 'apologist' on here (or anywhere else) has said anything different to Gerrard in any, tiny way. He needs to be more robust (said by everyone) he needs to be braver (said by everyone) he needs to play better (said by everyone) he needs this break to reset, act as his preseason (said by everyone)

How exactly is Gerrard agreeing, 100%, with the 'apologists' also Gerrard proving them wrong?


Edit to add I left Barasic out of this post because I see absolutely no issue with quality and very little argument over that point. He seems either fragile or lacking a little luck but I do not have any doubts over what he will bring if he gets fit.
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I actually don't disagree with most of that.

My point about the apologists-is that we do have a section of people who take a stance that flies in the face of the facts concerning the debate about a player's ability or whatever.

And you are right nobody not SG or even the player himself knows how successful the player is going to be or otherwise.

However my stance was that SG had reached a point with Grezda that suggested it clearly hadn't gone to plan-hence his lack of inclusion in 2 key squad selections. I even read he was injured as a deflection.

I think the point is simple the manager himself is disappointed with the player(s) and he would have factored in any mitigating circumstances.
 
DylanGer said:
I actually don't disagree with most of that.

My point about the apologists-is that we do have a section of people who take a stance that flies in the face of the facts concerning the debate about a player's ability or whatever.

And you are right nobody not SG or even the player himself knows how successful the player is going to be or otherwise.

However my stance was that SG had reached a point with Grezda that suggested it clearly hadn't gone to plan-hence his lack of inclusion in 2 key squad selections. I even read he was injured as a deflection.

I think the point is simple the manager himself is disappointed with the player(s) and he would have factored in any mitigating circumstances.
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Everyone who is a Rangers fan is disappointed. There is not a single person on FF arguing that Grezda has done well so far. At all. There are 2 very different camps, 1 saying he had been mince and will remain so and another camp saying he has had a list of issues as long as his arm and we should at least wait and see. If anything Gerrard is proving your ‘apologists’ right by tacitly saying that Grezda will get more game time and will need to improve. For Gerrard to be anything like ‘proving the apologists wrong’, he would have had to say that Grezda has had his chance and will be moved on PDQ
 
Angrybluebear said:
This is nuts.

Neither of them have contributed the way £2million plus players should have in Scotland, I’ll go as far and say neither has shown anything 2 games in a row.

However Barisic seems to be getting better the longer he is out and Grezda worse ? How is that even possible.
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The games Barisic has actually played in show that game for game, he has the highest crosses into the box of any other player in Scotland. There isnt a better crosser. You'd have to be blind to miss the fact that Barisic is a class act. Only injuries are hindering him.
 
BrooklynBlue said:
You’re right.

A chancer who got away with it at Man City for years. Pep didn’t see it and neither does SG. You do, despite having zero interaction with him.
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Do you even know what he did at Man City? I doubt it but you can google it now and tell us how clever you are.
 
Barisic has been selected and played at international level for a team that reached the world cup final.
You would think he must have something about him!
 
LOL 133 said:
Do you even know what he did at Man City? I doubt it but you can google it now and tell us how clever you are.
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:D I think you've already demonstrated you're the 'cleverest' on this thread.

He spent 7 years at City. You're saying he's a chancer and SG also doesn't rate him but is too polite even though it directly affects his managerial career. I'm guessing you don't know the manager's thoughts. But keep making stuff up if it makes you feel better.
 
TexMexBear said:
You've gone full retard.
I would also say that Ejaria was not a failure. Sadiq yes, but 1 loan signing who we've got shot of in a complete squad overhaul & you're coming away with this pish. ....
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That's right "pish" from a "retard". You obviously find it hard to follow any kind of discourse so there's no point in me pointing out to you that Im responding in kind to another poster.

Time they introduced a basic IQ test on here.
 
BrooklynBlue said:
:D I think you've already demonstrated you're the 'cleverest' on this thread.

He spent 7 years at City. You're saying he's a chancer and SG also doesn't rate him but is too polite even though it directly affects his managerial career. I'm guessing you don't know the manager's thoughts. But keep making stuff up if it makes you feel better.
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I might not be the "cleverest" on here but Im certainly not the thickest.
 
Northampton_Loyalist said:
Everyone who is a Rangers fan is disappointed. There is not a single person on FF arguing that Grezda has done well so far. At all. There are 2 very different camps, 1 saying he had been mince and will remain so and another camp saying he has had a list of issues as long as his arm and we should at least wait and see. If anything Gerrard is proving your ‘apologists’ right by tacitly saying that Grezda will get more game time and will need to improve. For Gerrard to be anything like ‘proving the apologists wrong’, he would have had to say that Grezda has had his chance and will be moved on PDQ
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I think you are tying yourself in knots over this. There's a variety of factions on Grezda I do think there is a core who think they know a player when they see one and he isn't it.

My take is the presigning clips showed a different player from what we've seen and that is down to either
not adapting or not recovering from the injury. However I would say the lack of space afforded flair players for Rangers in Scottish football and therefore can be misleading-said it with Pena-clip after clip had him running into space-doesn't happen here.

A much as SG not being a manager long he has seen I suspect dozens of players flop and I think he knows and expects what is required to make it-through lean spells, struggles whatever. We can take it as a given he has his team has spent time with Grezda trying to support him etc. I repeat dropping right out the squad indicates to me things have went awry somewhere. Therefore the stance that SG is agreeing with the apologists looks off-he knows he can't carry them or indulge them and potential talent or genuine ability that doesn't translate on the park is useless to him.

They've both been given a warning I think that they are going to have to give everything to succeed here and to be frank that indicates he's not seen it.
 
BrooklynBlue said:
No, but you're happy to make things up and use terms such as chancer and phoney. Well done.
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Who is "making things up"?. Im giving an opinion based on the ONLY evidence I have and that's his interviews. You might not agree. That's your choice. I have no issue with that but you want to have a go at me because you dont agree with my opinion.

Its typical of FF that any opinion outwith the norm is attacked and the poster gets abuse. I call it lynch mob mentality.
 
LOL 133 said:
Who is "making things up"?. Im giving an opinion based on the ONLY evidence I have and that's his interviews. You might not agree. That's your choice. I have no issue with that but you want to have a go at me because you dont agree with my opinion.

Its typical of FF that any opinion outwith the norm is attacked and the poster gets abuse. I call it lynch mob mentality.
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Ah, the victim now. Where have we seen this before...

So SG told you his thoughts on Mark Allen or have you just made it up about him being "too polite" to call MA out?

Of course you're entitled to an opinion and to be critical. However, you've decided people are chancers and phoneys - that's what I'm having a go at. But maybe you've seen something no one at City did for 7 years and which runs counter to all Gerrard's public utterances on MA.
 
AnglianBear said:
The games Barisic has actually played in show that game for game, he has the highest crosses into the box of any other player in Scotland. There isnt a better crosser. You'd have to be blind to miss the fact that Barisic is a class act. Only injuries are hindering him.
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How many goals have we scored from these crosses into the box ?

His best game this season was against us, all because he put balls into the box. Says more about our defending.

He has been anonymous in more games than he has stood out, in fact Livi away he was worse than that, a poorer performance I have yet to see from any of our full backs this season.

He may have class but does he have the physicality to cope with the kick and rush that is Scottish football
 
Angrybluebear said:
How many goals have we scored from these crosses into the box ?

His best game this season was against us, all because he put balls into the box. Says more about our defending.

He has been anonymous in more games than he has stood out, in fact Livi away he was worse than that, a poorer performance I have yet to see from any of our full backs this season.

He may have class but does he have the physicality to cope with the kick and rush that is Scottish football
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4, he has 4 assists in very little games.

Can't even be arsed with the rest of your post. What a load of shite I can't be arsed picking apart on a Saturday night.
 
DylanGer said:
I think you are tying yourself in knots over this. There's a variety of factions on Grezda I do think there is a core who think they know a player when they see one and he isn't it.

My take is the presigning clips showed a different player from what we've seen and that is down to either
not adapting or not recovering from the injury. However I would say the lack of space afforded flair players for Rangers in Scottish football and therefore can be misleading-said it with Pena-clip after clip had him running into space-doesn't happen here.

A much as SG not being a manager long he has seen I suspect dozens of players flop and I think he knows and expects what is required to make it-through lean spells, struggles whatever. We can take it as a given he has his team has spent time with Grezda trying to support him etc. I repeat dropping right out the squad indicates to me things have went awry somewhere. Therefore the stance that SG is agreeing with the apologists looks off-he knows he can't carry them or indulge them and potential talent or genuine ability that doesn't translate on the park is useless to him.

They've both been given a warning I think that they are going to have to give everything to succeed here and to be frank that indicates he's not seen it.
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I love the thought that you somehow know a player better than anyone else :D You argued for weeks, with me, that Candeias would feature rarely if at all this season because he lacks the quality for Gerrard to rely on him. How did that one work out?

Stop trying to deflect. You stated clearly that Gerrard telling Grezda he wants to see more is absolute proof that the 'apologists' are wrong. I merely pointed out that if anything, it is the opposite. You are the one making claims, I am merely rebutting them. Direct question for you, requiring an answer: define these 'apologists' please.

I do not quite understand why him being dropped twice is such an issue. Not one single person has said Grezda has performed for us. Given the absolutely widespread acceptance that he has been sub par, why would anyone be shocked at him missing games? Strange angle to take. Gerrard dropping him from any given squad is a sign that Gerrard did not see him as ready/fit/performing well enough in that moment and wanted better options, it is not a sign he cannot perform in the future.


This is very simple and you are taking it off track; Grezda has some talent. He has not played well for us so far. gerrard knows he has not played well for us so far. gerrard is saying exactly what your apologists are saying; Grezda is capable of better and it needs to start becoming apparent in his game.

Not one single person, at all and at any point, has said Grezda has done well so far. Several people have said he will 100% never play well. Some have said we need to wait and see because there is a player in there somewhere and maybe he will make it, maybe he will not. That is it, there are no other opinions being shared at all. I would bet a year's salary which side of that Gerrard would come down on and it is, 100%, not yours.
 
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