Celtic face threat of multimillion pound compensation claim(The Times)

Moodymann said:
Patrick McGuire (solicitor for some victims) Adam Tomkins MSP, the Times newspaper, the SFA or others in the media et al should be calling for full disclosure on the contract between Celtic FC and Jim Torbetts Trophy Centre to be fully publicly explained now.

Celtic FC paid Jim Torbett 250k per annum post conviction for several years. Torbett was at the centre of the Celtic paedophile ring.

Former Celtic board members Kevin Kelly and Jack McGinn continued to serve as directors in the Trophy centre well into the 2000’s.

It is morally inconceivable why Kelly and McGinn would continue to serve as directors alongside a paedophile. This has never been explained by either of those creepy individuals. They say you can judge a man by the company he keeps. Clearly in their cases you can.

Did either Kelly or McGinn - two men fundamental to the child sex abuse cover up at Celtic FC over several decades - also profit from these payments made to the Trophy Centre by Celtic ? Perhaps keeping the good name of Celtic clean meant they also felt owed final payments later in life.

250k a season on cheap plastic cups and tat ? It all stinks of hush money paid by Celtic in one or multiple directions.

Celtic need to publicly explain why they paid a paedophile 1M pounds over several years.
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It's recorded that Kevin Kelly was a director of the Trophy Centre but I can't find confirmation that Jack McGinn was a director, although Ms Anne McGinn Dunn was a director from October 1991. The BBC has claimed (without apparent dispute) that both Kevin Kelly and Jack McGinn worked for the Trophy Centre:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-39553258

Mr Kelly and Jack McGinn, a Celtic FC director from 1981, worked with Mr Torbett at his Trophy Centre business from 1986 and 1998 respectively. Their associations with the company continued long after Torbett was jailed for abuse.

What this means is that Jack McGinn was Vice-Chairman and President of the SFA when Jim Torbett was convicted and that he was in fact working for his company!

http://www.thecelticwiki.com/page/John+McGinn

He retained his position on the Board after Fergus McCann's take-over of the club but on the 4th August 1994 he announced his intention to stand down (after being asked to stand aside by the new Board). He still maintained some kind of role and was said to be a 'Legislative Advisor"' to the club.

In the meantime he had also been appointed as Treasurer of the SFA and he continued in that post. He went on to become SFA Vice-Chairman and President of the SFA in 1997. He resigned as President prior to his 70th birthday, in the summer of 2003 but he retained his positions as a Scotland representative of Uefa's club competitions committee and Fifa's World Club Championship committee.

This is the very same SFA that decrees Alastair Johnston as 'not fit and proper' - despite his warnings about the Whyte takeover.
 
squaddie-bear said:
I have posted this before.

We need to be careful about throwing around accusations and conjecture about this whole situation.

Every scenario and theory needs to be analysed and subjected to rigorous vetting.

It dilutes what has actually happened and detracts from the truth if people start shouting stuff from the rooftops that can be easily disproved.

I am not saying that is what has happened here but, if the contract for the £250,000 per annum deal was signed before Torbett was convicted then Celtic may not have been able to get out of it. Just because an employee of a company gets convicted of a crime doesnt mean that business contracts can be cancelled.

The question of why McGinn and Kelly stayed at that company is a fair shout. I wouldn't want to be associated with a company that had been run by a peado.

I am not saying that everything we are raising on here is false or incorrect, just that we need objectivity and intensive interrogation of it all to make sure we properly nail those those have been involved in this heinous and despicable period.
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No lawyer draws up a contract with a vendor without a termination clause in it. It’s simply inconceivable Celtic did not have the ability to terminate earlier than they did.
 
Moodymann said:
No lawyer draws up a contract with a vendor without a termination clause in it. It’s simply inconceivable Celtic did not have the ability to terminate earlier than they did.
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on what grounds? If the CEO of IBM got convicted of being a peado would all their customers be able to cancel their deals/contracts?

that's a genuine question, i don't know what the ins and outs of the law are.
 
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squaddie-bear said:
on what grounds? If the CEO of IBM got convicted of being a peado would all their customers be able to cancel their deals/contracts?

that's a genuine question, i don't know what the ins and outs of the law are.
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I would say no. They’d be in breach of contract as it’s with IBM and not their pedo CEO. Shareholders may take flight right enough!
 
squaddie-bear said:
under what grounds? If the CEO of IBM got convicted of being a peado would all their customers be able to cancel their deals/contracts?

that's a genuine question, i don't know what the ins and outs of the law are.
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Although we have to be careful concerning allegations and the use of information, there's more than enough in my last post to have set the media on both Celtic and the SFA more than 15 years ago.

Not only did Celtic still deal with the Trophy Centre - note that the incoming CEO quickly scrapped the contract - but Kelly and McGinn actually worked for the company following Torbett's conviction. Things like this don't happen at respectable organisations.

The financial angle also points to these directors being seriously compromised.

In my view there are strong grounds for believing that certain directors committed perjury in Torbett's first trial.
 
deedle said:
Although we have to be careful concerning allegations and the use of information, there's more than enough in my last post to have set the media on both Celtic and the SFA more than 15 years ago.

Not only did Celtic still deal with the Trophy Centre - note that the incoming CEO quickly scrapped the contract - but Kelly and McGinn actually worked for the company following Torbett's conviction. Things like this don't happen at respectable organisations.

The financial angle also points to these directors being seriously compromised.

In my view there are strong grounds for believing that certain directors committed perjury in Torbett's first trial.
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agreed mate, I just happened to choose that post as it was the latest one.

my general point is that they try to deflect and carry out whataboutery regarding Neely or others.

Those allegations/accusations are simply batted away with facts and it makes them look stupid/ill-informed.

we need to be careful of doing the same with our arguments/observations.

everything we post/present needs to be hammered by our own, so we are 100% sure what we put out there is correct. This is too important and serious a subject to not do so.
 
The paper trail from CFC to the trophy centre is important especially after JT went to jail as CFC were still doing business with each other

JT would deposit cash in the out of hours safety deposit box at bank of Scotland in Scotstoun on Dumbarton Road frequently.

On one occasion he took a lad to CP and asked the guy at the main desk to go and take the boy to get a a few new pair of boots from the boot room while he went upstairs for business.

He walked the corridors of Neverland unchallenged and had doors held open for him,all these liars and directors up to no good and extreme close ties in business and football,what else do this family of horror share?

A club like no there indeed!
 
rangers for life said:
I'm sure there used to be a Trophy Centre shop in Partick too,just as you came out Subway onto main road.I think its now a Gregg's or Semi Chem
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Im thinking the same with a Trophy Centre in Ayr aswell. A quick google on Companies House show a shop under the name The Trophy Centre limited. Now dispanded.
 
These paedo harbourers and suppressers of evidence within the mhedia need outed, named and shamed

Their jobs is to report news. If they have a conflict of interest they should resign but to obstruct the truth being reported is a disgrace

The sooner the truth is outed the better

Anyone hiding child abuse and helping abusers continue the abuse is either part of the actual abusing or sick in the head and a warped bastard
 
deedle said:
It's recorded that Kevin Kelly was a director of the Trophy Centre but I can't find confirmation that Jack McGinn was a director, although Ms Anne McGinn Dunn was a director from October 1991. The BBC has claimed (without apparent dispute) that both Kevin Kelly and Jack McGinn worked for the Trophy Centre:

The BBC is correct, both did work for them. Jack McGinn was an employee at TTC mate, not a director there.
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Div1872 said:
These paedo harbourers and suppressers of evidence within the mhedia need outed, named and shamed

Their jobs is to report news. If they have a conflict of interest they should resign but to obstruct the truth being reported is a disgrace

The sooner the truth is outed the better

Anyone hiding child abuse and helping abusers continue the abuse is either part of the actual abusing or sick in the head and a warped bastard
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Agree 100%. Every nail hit squarely on the head.

It's quite incredible that people are still trying to supress information, even after seeing and reading the harrowing stories of the many lives ruined, every one as important as theirs. It's scary the amount of soulless people who walk within us.
 
deedle said:
It's recorded that Kevin Kelly was a director of the Trophy Centre but I can't find confirmation that Jack McGinn was a director, although Ms Anne McGinn Dunn was a director from October 1991. The BBC has claimed (without apparent dispute) that both Kevin Kelly and Jack McGinn worked for the Trophy Centre:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-39553258

Mr Kelly and Jack McGinn, a Celtic FC director from 1981, worked with Mr Torbett at his Trophy Centre business from 1986 and 1998 respectively. Their associations with the company continued long after Torbett was jailed for abuse.

What this means is that Jack McGinn was Vice-Chairman and President of the SFA when Jim Torbett was convicted and that he was in fact working for his company!

http://www.thecelticwiki.com/page/John+McGinn

He retained his position on the Board after Fergus McCann's take-over of the club but on the 4th August 1994 he announced his intention to stand down (after being asked to stand aside by the new Board). He still maintained some kind of role and was said to be a 'Legislative Advisor"' to the club.

In the meantime he had also been appointed as Treasurer of the SFA and he continued in that post. He went on to become SFA Vice-Chairman and President of the SFA in 1997. He resigned as President prior to his 70th birthday, in the summer of 2003 but he retained his positions as a Scotland representative of Uefa's club competitions committee and Fifa's World Club Championship committee.

This is the very same SFA that decrees Alastair Johnston as 'not fit and proper' - despite his warnings about the Whyte takeover.
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https://companycheck.co.uk/company/SC087327/THE-TROPHY-CENTRE-LIMITED/companies-house-data
 
Here is another legal question.

The incident on the early 1990s USA trip which led ( allegedly) to club officials and lawyers flying over and sorting out with non-disclosure agreements being signed by a number of boys or their representatives pre-dated the Fergus McCann takeover in 1994 when a change in the company structure took place. If an intrepid reporter/documentary maker tracked down one of those boys and obtained a statement in breach of the non-disclosure could the post-1994 Celtic sue for something arranged by the pre-1994 Celtic?
 
Div1872 said:
These paedo harbourers and suppressers of evidence within the mhedia need outed, named and shamed

Their jobs is to report news. If they have a conflict of interest they should resign but to obstruct the truth being reported is a disgrace

The sooner the truth is outed the better

Anyone hiding child abuse and helping abusers continue the abuse is either part of the actual abusing or sick in the head and a warped bastard
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Suppressing news = paedo enabler
 
laud55 said:
Here is another legal question.

The incident on the early 1990s USA trip which led ( allegedly) to club officials and lawyers flying over and sorting out with non-disclosure agreements being signed by a number of boys or their representatives pre-dated the Fergus McCann takeover in 1994 when a change in the company structure took place. If an intrepid reporter/documentary maker tracked down one of those boys and obtained a statement in breach of the non-disclosure could the post-1994 Celtic sue for something arranged by the pre-1994 Celtic?
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Liabilities can pass over in take overs. I think the new company was set up to protect them going forward, not for anything in the past. I could be wrong. I don’t see how NDAs are valid, you cannot enter a contract with a minor. Unless the parents signed it, but who would sign such a thing if it was their child, it might explain payoffs etc...
 
Div1872 said:
These paedo harbourers and suppressers of evidence within the mhedia need outed, named and shamed

Their jobs is to report news. If they have a conflict of interest they should resign but to obstruct the truth being reported is a disgrace

The sooner the truth is outed the better

Anyone hiding child abuse and helping abusers continue the abuse is either part of the actual abusing or sick in the head and a warped bastard
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That's what I was thinking when I saw Gordon Waddells bit in the Sunday mail the other week when he said something about "we'd all heard the rumours for years". FFS, if you're a journalist is it not your job to act on or investigate these rumours?
 
Moodymann said:
Patrick McGuire (solicitor for some victims) Adam Tomkins MSP, the Times newspaper, the SFA or others in the media et al should be calling for full disclosure on the contract between Celtic FC and Jim Torbetts Trophy Centre to be fully publicly explained now.

Celtic FC paid Jim Torbett 250k per annum post conviction for several years. Torbett was at the centre of the Celtic paedophile ring.

Former Celtic board members Kevin Kelly and Jack McGinn continued to serve as directors in the Trophy centre well into the 2000’s.

It is morally inconceivable why Kelly and McGinn would continue to serve as directors alongside a paedophile. This has never been explained by either of those creepy individuals. They say you can judge a man by the company he keeps. Clearly in their cases you can.

Did either Kelly or McGinn - two men fundamental to the child sex abuse cover up at Celtic FC over several decades - also profit from these payments made to the Trophy Centre by Celtic ? Perhaps keeping the good name of Celtic clean meant they also felt owed final payments later in life or were the payments simply made for Torbetts benefit to keep a lid on the whole paedophile ring at the club.

250k a season on cheap plastic cups and tat ? It all stinks of hush money paid by Celtic in one or multiple directions.

Celtic need to publicly explain why they paid a paedophile 1M pounds over several years.
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you could argue/highlight it against a club of similar size to see if they were paying a similar sum for plastic baubles n plastic trophy's
 
https://stv.tv/news/west-central/1433901-whistleblower-accuses-celtic-of-failing-sex-abuse-victims/

Gerry McSherry interview from STV interview in Dec 2018

This guy has the silver bullet against CFC

Serious questions need raised by independent inquiry as to what did police do with the other names he listed as potential suspects

It stinks that this list is being ignored

A decent reporter would ask - how many names you provided in 1995 & 1996 have subsequently been convicted of CSA at CBC and CFC ?

Very simple question but scary if it’s all 6 who have already been convicted so who are the other 8 and what have police done about it?
 
Div1872 said:
https://stv.tv/news/west-central/1433901-whistleblower-accuses-celtic-of-failing-sex-abuse-victims/

Gerry McSherry interview from STV interview in Dec 2018

This guy has the silver bullet against CFC

Serious questions need raised by independent inquiry as to what did police do with the other names he listed as potential suspects

It stinks that this list is being ignored

A decent reporter would ask - how many names you provided in 1995 & 1996 have subsequently been convicted of CSA at CBC and CFC ?

Very simple question but scary if it’s all 6 who have already been convicted so who are the other 8 and what have police done about it?
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Surely one of the documentary makers or lawyers have obtained this list from Gerry McSherry?
 
squaddie-bear said:
on what grounds? If the CEO of IBM got convicted of being a peado would all their customers be able to cancel their deals/contracts?

that's a genuine question, i don't know what the ins and outs of the law are.
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Not if it's an isolated case

If it turned out IBM ran a paedo ring, and were using work experience programmes to lure in school kids, that might be a different matter. Think about the reputational damage
 
Mexi said:
Not if it's an isolated case

If it turned out IBM ran a paedo ring, and were using work experience programmes to lure in school kids, that might be a different matter. Think about the reputational damage
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I get that mate, my query was specifically with regards to the contract the tims had with the trophy center and could they cancel it because a director was convicted of being a peado.

I have no doubt that if it was established that there was the situation you describe above then any company that wanted to cancel a contract would be able to without too much legal trouble.
 
squaddie-bear said:
I get that mate, my query was specifically with regards to the contract the tims had with the trophy center and could they cancel it because a director was convicted of being a peado.

I have no doubt that if it was established that there was the situation you describe above then any company that wanted to cancel a contract would be able to without too much legal trouble.
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The contract was easily terminated once the issue was highlighted in the press. It was only when the fact Celtic were still paying Torbetts company emerged in press that they chose to stop payments.
 
Aspley1 Ger said:
The contract was easily terminated once the issue was highlighted in the press. It was only when the fact Celtic were still paying Torbetts company emerged in press that they chose to stop payments.
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were they? i thought the article above mentioned that they weren't renewing as opposed to cancelling the contract?

"There has been work going on behind the scenes and the upshot is that the contract is about to lapse and we will be looking for a new supplier. The new managment were appalled that someone like that was still taking money from Celtic.

"The directors decided someone new will be appointed, but they are angry that they could not get out of the contract earlier.
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The fhilth have battened down the hatches and hoping the heat will die down,We've even had the transfer target leek which was in my opinion just a deflection and change of subject tactic .
there seems to be no great appetite from the authorities to deal with is in the way it should be.
I realise the justice system takes its time but in this case it seems to be at a standstill
 
Grigo Yossarian said:
OK thanks Deedle. So almost definitely not from Lawwell’s first stint 1990-1991 :mad:
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Kelly was right there from the inception of the Trophy centre in 1989. Him,Torbett,Gerald McAleer and Angus Yuile. Kelly was also honorary Celtic boys club president at this time. Fair chance that the first recipient of a contract to supply would have been Celtic. Anyone confirm this? Also right in the timeline for a certain p.lawwell to start weaving his magic.
 
ShootYouDown said:
Kelly was right there from the inception of the Trophy centre in 1989. Him,Torbett,Gerald McAleer and Angus Yuile. Kelly was also honorary Celtic boys club president at this time. Fair chance that the first recipient of a contract to supply would have been Celtic. Anyone confirm this? Also right in the timeline for a certain p.lawwell to start weaving his magic.
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Thank you SYD. Appreciated mate.
 
Bknowe said:
He ripped Liewells letter apart on his Twitter page a couple of days ago

https://twitter.com/x/status/1134824869500268545
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In Lawwell's letter he states
"We are constrained in what we can discuss owing to legal processes"

From my understanding the Police are currently talking to Bennell regarding pressing more charges.
(apologies if I have go this wrong)

Are these 2 connected - linking Bennell to Celtic?
 
I'll be contacting my MSP,who also happens to be the finance minister,to ask him to raise this issue at first ministers questions in relation to an independent public inquiry being held and if not,why not?,with a request that my.concerns are also forwarded onto sturgeon and yusaf for a full explanation.
Like other bears,i wont hold my breath on a reply
 
deedle said:
Charles Lavery

Daily Record 2002


CELTIC have severed business links with Jim Torbett, four years after he was jailed for molesting three young footballers.

The club will not renew a controversial pounds 250,000-a-year contract with a firm linked to the paedophile founder of Celtic Boys' Club.

Celtic chairman Ian McLeod ordered all ties to be cut with the Trophy Centre, in Glasgow, and put the contract out to tender.

Club insiders say McLeod was alarmed to discover the club has paid the company more than pounds 1million since millionaire Torbett, 54, was convicted of molesting young starlets, including ex- Scotland star Alan Brazil.

Club officials were told the Trophy Centre contract will not be renewed next week. Torbett made a fortune supplying merchandise, including medals and scarves, to the club.

He resigned his directorship of the Trophy Centre in 2000 after being jailed for two years in November 1998.

But he remains a key figure in the business and his car is regularly seen at Trophy Centre outlets in Glasgow.

Staff answering the phone at the shops last week continued to take messages for him.

A Celtic insider said: "The club has had a long history with the Trophy Centre but a new management has come in and that relationship has not sat comfortably with them.

"There has been work going on behind the scenes and the upshot is that the contract is about to lapse and we will be looking for a new supplier. The new managment were appalled that someone like that was still taking money from Celtic.

"The directors decided someone new will be appointed, but they are angry that they could not get out of the contract earlier.

"They have paid that firm more than pounds 1million in the time since Torbett was convicted and that is appalling."

A spokesman for the club said: "Celtic had a long-term contractual obligation with the Trophy Centre.

"This has now lapsed and we are opening up the supply of our merchandise to tender."

The continuing links between Torbett, 54, and the club were condemned by his victims. A lawyer acting for James McGrory, now 44, had attacked the refusal of the Parkhead club to sever all ties with the Trophy Centre.

Iain Cochrane accused the club of being high-handed and dismissive of his client's concern adding: "Mr McGrory was surprised and distressed to discover Celtic's continuing business relationship."

Torbett was exposed as a child molester in August 1996. He has not been seen at Celtic Park since. He served less than half of his sentence.

The Record story alleged that £1 million was paid to the Trophy Centre between 1998 and 2002 but this contract may already have been in place before Torbett was sentenced.

Fergus McCann sold his shares in 1999.

Lawwell seems to have been Financial Controller in 1990-91. The contract with the Trophy Centre may have been in place then - he would surely know.
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Can it be clarified that Fergus McCann, often quoted as the guy who put Tommy Burns in his place when Tommy Burns vouched for Frank Cairney e.g in the article below, was still the Chief Executive in 1998?
1998 was the year the 4 year, 1998 - 2002, contract was signed and was also the year when Torbett was jailed for 2 years.
I'm not accusing McCann of being involved but what happened during his tenure as Chief Executive from 94 -99 where he didn't want the club associated with Cairney yet agreed to a £1m contract with a convicted paedophile the same year he was jailed.
Money for silence?

THE OTHER SIDE OF PARADISE
Scotland on Sunday 18/08/1996

"Last week, as the story developed from allegations against Torbett - who was suspended from the boys' club six days ago - to claims that Cairney fondled boys as they sat in the front seat of his car, many men with long associations with the club began to grow uneasy.
Former players backed Big Frank whom they knew as a "father figure" and Burns rushed out to Cairney's terraced home in Viewpark,
Lanarkshire, after receiving a call from the man he considers a close friend. Leaving his house the manager was reported to have said:
"He [Cairney] has the whole of my backing and that of Celtic Football Club to a man."

The following morning Burns must have been wishing he had bitten his tongue. Incandescent at his manager's assumption that the club
would back Cairney, McCann issued a statement. "While I sympathise with Tommy Burns' personal position as a friend of Mr Cairney,
the club cannot condone or defend or take sides in a matter which involves a criminal complaint," he said."
 
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