Ibrox capacity increase

rangeral said:
There removed the back 2/3 row of seats of the Rear to accommodate the hospitality boxes in the 1st place

Do you mean to make them open planned than rather enclosed?
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Just put normal seats in there. I’d say you could get 4 or 5 rows in there, I was in one of the boxes recently and there a lot of space wasted. I actually went and looked at the three stands after posting, there COULD be scope to put extra rows on all three stands, I think the structure behind would allow that.
 
GEODGC said:
Just put normal seats in there. I’d say you could get 4 or 5 rows in there, I was in one of the boxes recently and there a lot of space wasted. I actually went and looked at the three stands after posting, there COULD be scope to put extra rows on all three stands, I think the structure behind would allow that.
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Right understand you now

Since there was normal seats before then they probably have to remove the boxes then to do that

Can't see them losing that income
 
rangeral said:
Right understand you now

Since there was normal seats before then they probably have to remove the boxes then to do that

Can't see them losing that income
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I’m not saying lose the income. Keep the central seats to accommodate the Argyle Suite hospitality packages, they would just have a normal seat rather than watching from a box. Every other hospitality package just has a normal seat and some are more expensive than the Argyle Suite. With them condensed into the centre, there would be plenty room for high end season tickets at both ends.
 
GEODGC said:
I’m not saying lose the income. Keep the central seats to accommodate the Argyle Suite hospitality packages, they would just have a normal seat rather than watching from a box. Every other hospitality package just has a normal seat and some are more expensive than the Argyle Suite. With them condensed into the centre, there would be plenty room for high end season tickets at both ends.
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So more open planned then like the Main Stand/Club Deck

So you have to remove the enclosed hospitality boxes to accommodate that
 
rangeral said:
So more open planned then like the Main Stand/Club Deck

So you have to remove the enclosed hospitality boxes to accommodate that
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Yes, just an idea. The boxes are nice to have, but as I said, there is a huge waste of space with them. When were the back rows removed to accommodate the boxes btw? It’s not something I can remember.
 
GEODGC said:
Yes, just an idea. The boxes are nice to have, but as I said, there is a huge waste of space with them. When were the back rows removed to accommodate the boxes btw? It’s not something I can remember.
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30 years ago when they built the Argyle House along with the hospitality boxes, it was the only to bring them closer to the pitch was to remove 2/3 rows of seats
 
rangeral said:
30 years ago when they built the Argyle House along with the hospitality boxes, it was the only to bring them closer to the pitch was to remove 2/3 rows of seats
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I have absolutely no recollection of that. :) Too much alcohol over the years, that’s my excuse.
 
Laudrup1 said:
@Mr Aqua

Not without losing the row below it. The pitch on the Govan stand front and rear sections is different to the end stands.

You can see here in 1985 or so long before Bar72 existed how the stands differ and why it was possible on the Govan.

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Tin hat on but I loved the multi coloured seats. That's what Ibrox looked like when I first started going to the games with my dad as a kid so they've got special memories for me. They really were unique and Ibrox was genuinely the best stadium in the world when modernised.
 
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Rooster said:
Seen this on twitter. I know the board said nothing as dramatic but it would take this to replace the big TVs from what I gather


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Yeah, that's a combination of what I was saying and what @BlueMalky is suggesting.

I don't think that picture could work as it is exactly as you've lost the goal post from the Govan end of things so you're either leaving it in and creating a load of restricted view seats or it has to be exented. At that rate, I think you're as well removing the two end roofs but it's all down to feasibility.
 
Amity75 said:
Tin hat on but I loved the multi coloured seats. That's what Ibrox looked like when I first started going to the games with my dad as a kid so they've got special memories for me. They really were unique and Ibrox was genuinely the best stadium in the world when modernised.
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Yellow and brown isn't the best look to be honest. A blend of blue black and red I might be open to.
 
Project 2022 is just over 2 years away. There is no way major construction work can be completed for this. As Stuart Robinson said it will be a slight increase on capacity. If I remember the bar 72 upgrade was done during close season. The outside of stadium will be resurfaced and athestically changed. Club are already Co operating with gcc with this... Hopefully they will let us buy the Ibrox complex and we can upgrade this for our own use..
 
The_Hammer1990 said:
I don’t see why people are spunking their pants for safe standing as a means of increasing capacity, it doesn’t work like that. At a minimum it’s a 1:1 ratio, at worst it’s 1:1.5.

Should there be safe standing? Sure, it would be great, but that won’t increase capacity.
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I’m guessing here but if it’s a “ standing match “ then I’d imagine it might be 1.5 per seat space, per row could be an extra 50%
I’m guessing mind
 
could revamping the stands and bringing standing areas on the lower decks increase capacity, make the main stand and govan lower tiers all standing room only ?
 
Our ground copied the design of Borussia Dortmund. Pretty sure when they filled in the corners they used a cantilever, we would probably use something similar.
 
Remove screens and hang new ones from Copland /broomloan roofs.
Fill both corner areas with as many seats as possible, adding steelwork to the exterior of both to allow a cantilever support to those corner roof sections and ensure no obstructions.
Join Copland and broomloan to main stand at upper tier. Maintain road access by two tunnels (the same as hampden,) or even better complete the bowl at both levels and bring road access in from both gates below a lower tier (interaction or moving club deck stairs be required)
70000 capacity. Job done.
 
Glasgowisblue said:
Project 2022 is just over 2 years away. There is no way major construction work can be completed for this. As Stuart Robinson said it will be a slight increase on capacity. If I remember the bar 72 upgrade was done during close season. The outside of stadium will be resurfaced and athestically changed. Club are already Co operating with gcc with this... Hopefully they will let us buy the Ibrox complex and we can upgrade this for our own use..
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That’s the best realistic outcome . Everything else is I’m afraid pie in the sky . We have two years and a bit to complete works that haven’t even begun .
 
Changing the angle of pitch for the four lower tiers would allow additional seating at the front of each stand and along Bar 72 style at each end could bring 3-4k eaxtra seats without touching the goal post structures holding up the roofs.

The space between main stand could be utilised for Corporate balconies on top of one another whilst retaining the vehicle access and existing staircase etc.

The main engineering works to the corners and possible extra tier to the Govan can then still be done at a later date.
 
Denhaag said:
Changing the angle of pitch for the four lower tiers would allow additional seating at the front of each stand and along Bar 72 style at each end could bring 3-4k eaxtra seats without touching the goal post structures holding up the roofs.

The space between main stand could be utilised for Corporate balconies on top of one another whilst retaining the vehicle access and existing staircase etc.

The main engineering works to the corners and possible extra tier to the Govan can then still be done at a later date.
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By “ changing the angle of the pitch “ do you mean digging down below the water table ? Because while that could be done it’s a costly project .
 
HenningBerg said:
By “ changing the angle of the pitch “ do you mean digging down below the water table ? Because while that could be done it’s a costly project .
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No he means the pitch of the stands as in make them steeper.

It absolutely should be done with the enclosure. Murray half assed that and just seated the terracing rather than lift it to the level of the Archibald Leitch cross cross to make better sight lines.

Theres limits on the steepness of stands in the UK for regulations that are tighter than in Europe. I'm not sure how much more we can elevate the tiers there.
 
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Laudrup1 said:
No he means the pitch of the stands as in make them steeper.

It absolutely should be done with the enclosure. Murray half passed that and just seated the terracing rather than lift it to the level of the Archibald Leitch cross cross to make better sight lines.

Theres limits on the steepness of stands in the UK for regulations that are tighter than in Europe. I'm not sure how much more we can elevate the tiers there.
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Got you . And this makes sense to me as it’s perhaps the most financially viable option ?

Presumably it would be a case of lifting out the current seats in the four front sections of the stands , and pouring concrete in/building the steps into a slightly steeper gradient , then putting the seats back with four extra rows added because we have the steeper gradient .

Could also incorporate safe standing in the BF as well as improve the handicapped facilities all at the same time as it is one programme of work . The increased capacity would be 3/4000 and it would deliver on our plans without any major engineering works or support beams lifted etc .

The question is could this all be done in one close season ?
 
Laudrup1 said:
No he means the pitch of the stands as in make them steeper.

It absolutely should be done with the enclosure. Murray half passed that and just seated the terracing rather than lift it to the level of the Archibald Leitch cross cross to make better sight lines.

Theres limits on the steepness of stands in the UK for regulations that are tighter than in Europe. I'm not sure how much more we can elevate the tiers there.
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The original stretch drawing/model for the Club Deck plans showed the enclosures were to be steeper towards the Leitch design but it never happened

In the end we ripped the old terracing out and replaced it probably with a steepness no different to the previous terracing
 
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HenningBerg said:
Got you . And this makes sense to me as it’s perhaps the most financially viable option ?

Presumably it would be a case of lifting out the current seats in the four front sections of the stands , and pouring concrete in/building the steps into a slightly steeper gradient , then putting the seats back with four extra rows added because we have the steeper gradient .

Could also incorporate safe standing in the BF as well as improve the handicapped facilities all at the same time as it is one programme of work . The increased capacity would be 3/4000 and it would deliver on our plans without any major engineering works or support beams lifted etc .

The question is could this all be done in one close season ?
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You can get precast seating decks which would make the job quicker to do but you still need to other work to install it which in truth I don't think it would suit the current Ibrox maybe a rebuilt one

Timescales also play a part as well to put into in context - it took 6 weeks for them to install their rail seating section during the close season alone
 
rangeral said:
The original stretch drawing/model for the Club Deck plans showed the enclosures were to be steeper towards the Leitch design but it never happened

In the end we ripped the old terracing and replaced probably with a steepness no different to the previous terracing
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Yeah, the concrete was redone for seating but at the exact same gradient.

That Blue Heaven picture that people keep posting was an artists impression and was created before full engineering had been completed so it was all guess work.

A bit of the usual bluster by Murray.
 
GEODGC said:
I’m not saying lose the income. Keep the central seats to accommodate the Argyle Suite hospitality packages, they would just have a normal seat rather than watching from a box. Every other hospitality package just has a normal seat and some are more expensive than the Argyle Suite. With them condensed into the centre, there would be plenty room for high end season tickets at both ends.
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I would actually be more inclined to buy an argyll suite package if the seats were out in the stadium rather than behind the glass partition.

Only negative might be the view if its right at the back of the govan rear.
 
LoganBear said:
I would actually be more inclined to buy an argyll suite package if the seats were out in the stadium rather than behind the glass partition.

Only negative might be the view if its right at the back of the govan rear.
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They are right at the back of the Govan anyway. The back of the Govan Rear is a great view. On your first point, I don’t think any real football fan would rather watch a game from behind a glass screen, I know they have speakers to allow crowd noise but I would much rather be in amongst the atmosphere for real.
 
HenningBerg said:
Got you . And this makes sense to me as it’s perhaps the most financially viable option ?

Presumably it would be a case of lifting out the current seats in the four front sections of the stands , and pouring concrete in/building the steps into a slightly steeper gradient , then putting the seats back with four extra rows added because we have the steeper gradient .

Could also incorporate safe standing in the BF as well as improve the handicapped facilities all at the same time as it is one programme of work . The increased capacity would be 3/4000 and it would deliver on our plans without any major engineering works or support beams lifted etc .

The question is could this all be done in one close season ?
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that sound expensive???
 
Here's the issue we face with the screens for anyone still suggesting we seat it without major works.

This is the amount of steelwork holding up the roofs as it stands. That's what you'd be looking through for a majority of the new seats you add in.



It renders a huge number of the seats unusable



The only option if we're doing this is to take the roofs off. I'd love to see it done at some point.
 
Laudrup1 said:
Yeah, the concrete was redone for seating but at the exact same gradient.

That Blue Heaven picture that people keep posting was an artists impression and was created before full engineering had been completed so it was all guess work.

A bit of the usual bluster by Murray.
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Yeah even the original Club Deck plans stretch turned out different - enclosed boxes with seating above them
 
GEODGC said:
They are right at the back of the Govan anyway. The back of the Govan Rear is a great view. On your first point, I don’t think any real football fan would rather watch a game from behind a glass screen, I know they have speakers to allow crowd noise but I would much rather be in amongst the atmosphere for real.
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The hozzi at the argyll suite is top notch, the only thing that lets it down for me is the glass partition.

They do have speakers to pipe the crown noise through but its really tinny and alien sounding, seems like you are miles away.
 
rangeral said:
Yeah even the original Club Deck plans stretch turned out different - enclosed boxes with seating above them
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Yeah, I remember the picture of Souness standing infront of it all and the rear of the Main Stand had executive boxes along the length of the stand.

Again, we lost so many seats from the Main Stand during those works the additional 7500 in the Club Deck only added about 4k to the capacity.

When Murray took over the capacity was 44k.


Added three rows to the new stands lowering the pitch - 1500
Filled in the lower corners - 2400
We build the club deck - 7500
Reduced the seat size in the entire stadium to squeeze more in - 2000
Added Bar72 - 750

14,000 odd seats and the capacity is still only 51,000 when it could be at 58,000.

Even allowing for what was lost in seating the enclsorure (7500 down to 4800) it shows what we've "lost" around the ground with the development works.

It should be at 55k just now.
 
Taken from the Bond booklet

In truth that design is nicer than the current enclosures keeps with the design of the Main Stand

Could we actually follow up the original plan?

9tjy1u.jpg
 
Laudrup1 said:
Here's the issue we face with the screens for anyone still suggesting we seat it without major works.

This is the amount of steelwork holding up the roofs as it stands. That's what you'd be looking through for a majority of the new seats you add in.



It renders a huge number of the seats unusable



The only option if we're doing this is to take the roofs off. I'd love to see it done at some point.
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If ever an image illustrated the overwhelming problems with adding and additional tier on the Govan Stand - or, indeed, filling in the corners - then it is this one. Its not going to happen - ever. I remain of the view that if we are serious about a 'significant' increase in capacity (7500+) then a rebuild is necessary and would be much more cost effective.

Until then, we will tinker at the edges. To be fair, that is what Robertson has suggested the Feasibility Study is looking at - its mainly on FF that folk have gone off with ideas costing tens of millions, if not 100s of millions, to implement.
 
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Laudrup1 said:
Yeah, I remember the picture of Souness standing infront of it all and the rear of the Main Stand had executive boxes along the length of the stand.

Again, we lost so many seats from the Main Stand during those works the additional 7500 in the Club Deck only added about 4k to the capacity.

When Murray took over the capacity was 44k.


Added three rows to the new stands lowering the pitch - 1500
Filled in the lower corners - 2400
We build the club deck - 7500
Reduced the seat size in the entire stadium to squeeze more in - 2000
Added Bar72 - 750

14,000 odd seats and the capacity is still only 51,000 when it could be at 58,000.

Even allowing for what was lost in seating the enclsorure (7500 down to 4800) it shows what we've "lost" around the ground with the development works.

It should be at 55k just now.
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Yeah Souness and Alan Montgomery
 
Valley Bluenose said:
If ever an image illustrated the overwhelming problems with adding and additional tier on the Govan Stand then it is this one. Its not going to happen - ever. I remain of the view that if we are serious about a 'significant' increase in capacity (7500+) then a rebuild is necessary and would be much more cost effective.

Until then, we will tinker at the edges. To be fair, that is what Robertson has suggested the Feasibility Study is looking at - its mainly on FF that folk have gone off with ideas costing tens of millions, if not 100s of millions, to implement.
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A feasibility study on that sort of thing would be interesting but we're so far off looking it that it would be pointless just now.

I'm not convinced a total rebuild would still be more cost effective but it's all down to how far the works go.

The base of the three new stands when you take the roof off is fine for development just at the Main Stand was for the Club Deck.

What could be argued though is that they're not up to modern standards in terms of kiosks, toilets and general facilities though. It's whether you do that as a refurb in additional to removing the roofs / adding corners in is taking place and additional costs for that.

It's all pie in the sky just now though.
 
Laudrup1 said:
Here's the issue we face with the screens for anyone still suggesting we seat it without major works.

This is the amount of steelwork holding up the roofs as it stands. That's what you'd be looking through for a majority of the new seats you add in.



It renders a huge number of the seats unusable



The only option if we're doing this is to take the roofs off. I'd love to see it done at some point.
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Hopefully this post finally kills off anyone else asking about “ filling in the corners “ .

It simply isn’t happening without a massive investment .

The end .
 
Any changes need to show an ROI within 5 years, I believe.

If it's wholesale changes around the stadium, involving closing of stands, we lose revenue. If it's less, they need to be worth it.

What does an extra, say, 1000 seats net us in income a year?
 
a_weir said:
Any changes need to show an ROI within 5 years, I believe.

If it's wholesale changes around the stadium, involving closing of stands, we lose revenue. If it's less, they need to be worth it.

What does an extra, say, 1000 seats net us in income a year?
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Average price of season tickets apparently around £300.
 
a_weir said:
Any changes need to show an ROI within 5 years, I believe.

If it's wholesale changes around the stadium, involving closing of stands, we lose revenue. If it's less, they need to be worth it.

What does an extra, say, 1000 seats net us in income a year?
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Probably about 3/4 of a million so you'd be looking at wanting to spend £4m to add another thousand seats in terms of payback. That's optimistic (but it all depends on the severity of the works though)

Man United spent £60m in 2006 to add 8000 seats to the equivalent of the Ibrox Screen areas. Was a reasonably different process for them to what we'd be doing though though looking for the same outcome.

We'd add a similar number if we did the same and if it was to be costing anything near that (and more than a decade later), we can forget it
 
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Laudrup1 said:
Probably about 3/4 of a million so you'd be looking at wanting to spend £4m to add another thousand seats in terms of payback. That's optimistic (but it all depends on the severity of the works though)

Man United spent £40m in 2006 to add 8000 seats to the equivalent of the Ibrox Screen areas. Was a reasonably different process for them to what we'd be doing though though looking for the same outcome.

We'd add a similar number if we did the same and if it was to be costing anything near that (and more than a decade later), we can forget it
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I think £750k is very very optimistic mate for 1000 extra seats.
 
LoganBear said:
I think £750k is very very optimistic mate for 1000 extra seats.
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£300 includes kids / concessions figures. It would be right as figure I head in my head for ST income wsa £14m and at 45,000, that's £311 a ticket.

It doesn't include any additional cup or European games.

By the time you are including spend on food, drink and programmes etc, it won't be far off.

These seats would be priced at the higher end of the Ibrox prices as well and not on the average of £300 given the views from them. They'd be prime seats.

Even if they were £450 per seat and you add EL group ticket income on to that, you're well over a half a million quid before any friendly, domestic cup and additional Euro qualifiers are added on.
 
Any talks of altering the main structural supports and removing the screen are pie in the sky stuff at the moment. This would be extensive and cost millions.
 
Denhaag said:
Changing the angle of pitch for the four lower tiers would allow additional seating at the front of each stand and along Bar 72 style at each end could bring 3-4k eaxtra seats without touching the goal post structures holding up the roofs.

The space between main stand could be utilised for Corporate balconies on top of one another whilst retaining the vehicle access and existing staircase etc.

The main engineering works to the corners and possible extra tier to the Govan can then still be done at a later date.
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I remember when the pitch was lowered in the mid 90's. It created issues in the Club Deck with some seats essentially becoming restricted view and not able to see the touchline.

This was sorted however if the pitch lowers further then the dimensions of the pitch may need to be shortened to allow those in Club Deck to see both touchlines without restricted view. (If that makes sense).

Remember at the back of the Club Deck you can't even see the Govan Stand, such is the slant on the roof.

Dropping the pitch is a tough undertaking, not just from a water table perspective.

I think the best way could be to put extra rows at the back of the stands - into the Govan hospitality and push back at Copland and Broomloan rears. How viable that is, i'm not sure.

Safe standing could also give a capacity boost. 3000 seats (Broomloan front, using a 1:1.5 ratio gives us 1500 extra seats. Do that at the Copland front too and you've got 3000 extra spaces straight off.
 
A stadium partner, and even at the end of the scale of say 150m redevelopment... is this really ouwith the realm of possibility? if that added 15-20k seats (plucked from the existing waiting list not a calculated total), then essentially you are mortgaging those seats to be full for x number of years. There are huge grants/sponsorship opportunities for stadium and sporting facility development, not to mention the fact that at an increased capacity the stadium becomes attractive for a whole number of other uses (gigs/european finals/other sporting finals) etc etc. I dont think our issue here is one of cashflow generation, more so its getting the trust back from the lenders after the financial mess we were left after DM.
 
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