As at 23 August 2019, 10 countries have the death penalty for being gay, one is hosting the World Cup in 3 years - what say FARE?

R

RBRFC

Well-Known Member
Qatar is also a brutal dictatorship (is there another kind?) with no Rule of Law, no democracy, no rights for workers, limited rights for women and even less for religious minorities, where people are arrested and held without charge without limit of time and without trial. What say FARE - well, nothing.

FARE is Europe based, but UEFA is the most influential member of FIFA, and many European teams will participate in 3 years.

Iran is worse than all the above and participated in the last world cup, they still stone women to death for the accusation of adultery.

The last World Cup was in Russia, a psuedo- democracy with a dictator for life running the show - what said FARE? Nothing.

FARE run a football v Homophobia campaign, among others, so I am confused by the above.

The above information is all objectively verifiable from overwhelming data - so dont take my word for it, look it up.
 
RBRFC said:
Qatar is also a brutal dictatorship (is there another kind?) with no Rule of Law, no democracy, no rights for workers, limited rights for women and even less for religious minorities, where people are arrested and held without charge without limit of time and without trial. What say FARE - well, nothing.

FARE is Europe based, but UEFA is the most influential member of FIFA, and many European teams will participate in 3 years.

Iran is worse than all the above and participated in the last world cup, they still stone women to death for the accusation of adultery.

The last World Cup was in Russia, a psuedo- democracy with a dictator for life running the show - what said FARE? Nothing.

FARE run a football v Homophobia campaign, among others, so I am confused by the above.

The above information is all objectively verifiable from overwhelming data - so dont take my word for it, look it up.
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Accurate points all well made.
Which one of them excuses TBB being sung at Rangers games?
 
RBRFC said:
Qatar is also a brutal dictatorship (is there another kind?) with no Rule of Law, no democracy, no rights for workers, limited rights for women and even less for religious minorities, where people are arrested and held without charge without limit of time and without trial. What say FARE - well, nothing.

FARE is Europe based, but UEFA is the most influential member of FIFA, and many European teams will participate in 3 years.

Iran is worse than all the above and participated in the last world cup, they still stone women to death for the accusation of adultery.

The last World Cup was in Russia, a psuedo- democracy with a dictator for life running the show - what said FARE? Nothing.

FARE run a football v Homophobia campaign, among others, so I am confused by the above.

The above information is all objectively verifiable from overwhelming data - so dont take my word for it, look it up.
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A very valid point tbf OP
 
FARE wasn’t set up to campaign about countries with death penalties for homosexuality.

FARE was set up to target Rangers FC.

Rangers fans keep on playing into their hands... pretty much a decade after they first appeared on the scene with the same tactics.

Rangers fans need to grow up.
 
RBRFC said:
Qatar is also a brutal dictatorship (is there another kind?) with no Rule of Law, no democracy, no rights for workers, limited rights for women and even less for religious minorities, where people are arrested and held without charge without limit of time and without trial. What say FARE - well, nothing.

FARE is Europe based, but UEFA is the most influential member of FIFA, and many European teams will participate in 3 years.

Iran is worse than all the above and participated in the last world cup, they still stone women to death for the accusation of adultery.

The last World Cup was in Russia, a psuedo- democracy with a dictator for life running the show - what said FARE? Nothing.

FARE run a football v Homophobia campaign, among others, so I am confused by the above.

The above information is all objectively verifiable from overwhelming data - so dont take my word for it, look it up.
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#whataboutery
 
Gogso said:
Accurate points all well made.
Which one of them excuses TBB being sung at Rangers games?
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Once again, why does it need to be one or the other? What is stopping us cutting the songs along with criticising the corrupt and bias FARE?
 
Ianferguson said:
It shouldn't be ,racism is for village idiots because your abusing someone for being something they have no choice over. Sectarianism is different, you should be able to criticize someone for following a bad ideology.
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Well it is and the punishment is the same.
You can’t be outraged about people being abused for being different then argue for the right to abuse people for being different.
 
Ianferguson said:
It shouldn't be ,racism is for village idiots because your abusing someone for being something they have no choice over. Sectarianism is different, you should be able to criticize someone for following a bad ideology.
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I totally agree. People cannot choose their race but they can choose their allegiances and should be open to ridicule in a free society.
 
Funny how the most Facist Right Wing Football Nations too are from the Roman Church faith. Italy, Spain etc. :rolleyes:
 
Coda said:
Once again, why does it need to be one or the other? What is stopping us cutting the songs along with criticising the corrupt and bias FARE?
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The current discussion is about cutting out the songs to protect the club. There’s a discussion to be had about others not being targeted but doing it just now would get nowhere because it just looks like whataboutery which it is.
 
Wilkinsvolley said:
Well it is and the punishment is the same.
You can’t be outraged about people being abused for being different then argue for the right to abuse people for being different.
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Nonsense. We live in a free society. Comedians make a living out of slagging men or women say or cultural or religious traits. Celtc fans choose to support their despicable club, despite all its indiscretions and align themselves to a foreign country, hating their own. People should be allowed to hold up to ridicule the choice people make. People choose their faith, people choose their football team, we live in a free country but sadly expression is being killed over the fake grief culture. The pathetic reaction to Diana dying was sickening. People need to man up.
 
We will be 3,000 fans down on Thursday, in future games, we may be 50,000 fans down and/or chucked out the whole competition.

Nothing in this thread changes that.
 
Superrangers said:
Nonsense. We live in a free society. Comedians make a living out of slagging men or women say or cultural or religious traits. Celtc fans choose to support their despicable club, despite all its indiscretions and align themselves to a foreign country, hating their own. People should be allowed to hold up to ridicule the choice people make. People choose their faith, people choose their football team, we live in a free country but sadly expression is being killed over the fake grief culture. The pathetic reaction to Diana dying was sickening. People need to man up.
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This doesn’t have any impact on your freedom of speech. You aren’t being imprisoned without trial for expressing yourself. Rangers can have rules about what is acceptable on their premises and UEFA can have rules about what is acceptable in their competition.
 
Superrangers said:
Nonsense. We live in a free society. Comedians make a living out of slagging men or women say or cultural or religious traits. Celtc fans choose to support their despicable club, despite all its indiscretions and align themselves to a foreign country, hating their own. People should be allowed to hold up to ridicule the choice people make. People choose their faith, people choose their football team, we live in a free country but sadly expression is being killed over the fake grief culture. The pathetic reaction to Diana dying was sickening. People need to man up.
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It’s not nonsense, hence the section closure.
Why the desperation to argue it on here? Nobody on here decided to close the stand and nobody on here will change their minds.
Instead of arguing for something that will inevitably lead to further harm for Rangers how about arguing to prevent it?
 
Superrangers said:
I totally agree. People cannot choose their race but they can choose their allegiances and should be open to ridicule in a free society.
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Exactly. People who follow scientology are (correctly) openly mocked. All religions are deep down exactly the same as as scientology, so why is it seen as acceptable to openly mock and criticize 1 religion, but others are off limits?
 
legalbeagle said:
This doesn’t have any impact on your freedom of speech. You aren’t being imprisoned without trial for expressing yourself. Rangers can have rules about what is acceptable on their premises and UEFA can have rules about what is acceptable in their competition.
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Fans have been jailed for singing the Billy Boys.
 
Wilkinsvolley said:
The current discussion is about cutting out the songs to protect the club. There’s a discussion to be had about others not being targeted but doing it just now would get nowhere because it just looks like whataboutery which it is.
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Who is deciding what the current discussion is? I personally wont be dictated to as to what is and isn’t appropriate to discuss, and at what time.

The discussion regarding the songs is a simple one. Stop singing them. No need to drag that one out.

Now onto what we can do about an organisation who are targeting us. People can call it whataboutery if they want, but those critics will inevitably be bellends like Spiers and Stewart, so I’m not too concerned what they think.
 
Wilkinsvolley said:
It’s not nonsense, hence the section closure.
Why the desperation to argue it on here? Nobody on here decided to close the stand and nobody on here will change their minds.
Instead of arguing for something that will inevitably lead to further harm for Rangers how about arguing to prevent it?
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Its a chat room where people debate issues.

I would adhere to all guidelines as to what can and can’t be sung at Rangers games, so would in no way harm the club but it doesn’t mean I agree with it.
 
Coda said:
Who is deciding what the current discussion is? I personally wont be dictated to as to what is and isn’t appropriate to discuss, and at what time.

The discussion regarding the songs is a simple one. Stop singing them. No need to drag that one out.

Now onto what we can do about an organisation who are targeting us. People can call it whataboutery if they want, but those critics will inevitably be bellends like Spiers and Stewart, so I’m not too concerned what they think.
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When any decent points can easily be discredited and slapped down as whataboutery you’re doing the argument no justice and starting it from a weak position.
 
Coda said:
Who is deciding what the current discussion is? I personally wont be dictated to as to what is and isn’t appropriate to discuss, and at what time.

The discussion regarding the songs is a simple one. Stop singing them. No need to drag that one out.

Now onto what we can do about an organisation who are targeting us. People can call it whataboutery if they want, but those critics will inevitably be bellends like Spiers and Stewart, so I’m not too concerned what they think.
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Agreed. No-one should control the agenda. I understand there are certain acceptable standards in society but freedom of speech is the single defining quality of democracy and the world is regressing against it. We are constantly being taught what to think, how to feel, what is and is not acceptable. It’s too much. Million sure fought and died for freedom of speech and now we are having controlling messages foisted upon us on what to be or how to think.

I don’t want to be vegan, homosexuality is not for me and I don’t to see it flagrantly in my face (I am against big shows of public affection irrespective of sexuality), I hate the SNP and ideas of independence.

Celtc fans and their pretend Irishness deserve ridicule. They are pathetic, stereotypical and worthy of parody.

FARE are corrupt and have a clear agenda. Those that don’t see it choose not to see it.
 
Davester said:
Surely the club can legally demand to see the FARE report. It's like being convicted and sentenced for a crime and never seeing any evidence!
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I suspect evidence of times and footage will be supplied along with the charge and punishment so the club can review it.
 
Superrangers said:
Agreed. No-one should control the agenda. I understand there are certain acceptable standards in society but freedom of speech is the single defining quality of democracy and the world is regressing against it. We are constantly being taught what to think, how to feel, what is and is not acceptable. It’s too much. Million sure fought and died for freedom of speech and now we are having controlling messages foisted upon us on what to be or how to think.

I don’t want to be vegan, homosexuality is not for me and I don’t to see it flagrantly in my face (I am against big shows of public affection irrespective of sexuality), I hate the SNP and ideas of independence.

Celtc fans and their pretend Irishness deserve ridicule. They are pathetic, stereotypical and worthy of parody.

FARE are corrupt and have a clear agenda. Those that don’t see it choose not to see it.
Click to expand...
We’re not being punished for mentioning Celtic though. I think that’s one of the reasons we’re finding it so difficult to eradicate. Too many people equate them to the religion. That’s how they managed make the notion that 19th Century Terrorist=catholic stick.
 
Wilkinsvolley said:
We’re not being punished for mentioning Celtic though. I think that’s one of the reasons we’re finding it so difficult to eradicate. Too many people equate them to the religion. That’s how they managed make the notion that 19th Century Terrorist=catholic stick.
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In their eyes yes, in ours no.
 
Wilkinsvolley said:
When any decent points can easily be discredited and slapped down as whataboutery you’re doing the argument no justice and starting it from a weak position.
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That doesn’t make sense. If it’s a decent point, it shouldn’t be easy to discredit it, and calling it whataboutery is a poor debating technique, usually from people who are as bright as a blackout. A decent point is a decent point, regardless of when it’s discussed.

Someone calling a pertinent point “whataboutery” does not make it so.
 
Coda said:
That doesn’t make sense. If it’s a decent point, it shouldn’t be easy to discredit it, and calling it whataboutery is a poor debating technique, usually from people who are as bright as a blackout. A decent point is a decent point, regardless of when it’s discussed.

Someone calling a pertinent point “whataboutery” does not make it so.
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I said on another post that we absolutely have to do some digging into FARE's practises. I do however think that right now is not the time to be doing so, publically at least.

We have to be seen to be taking this seriously and to start saying "well they do it too" or "why haven't they been pulled up" will not help our cause. In the coming weeks and months however we should definitely be gunning for them wherever possible.
 
mkgers said:
I said on another post that we absolutely have to do some digging into FARE's practises. I do however think that right now is not the time to be doing so, publically at least.

We have to be seen to be taking this seriously and to start saying "well they do it too" or "why haven't they been pulled up" will not help our cause. In the coming weeks and months however we should definitely be gunning for them wherever possible.
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I agree that officially we need to let the dust settle, however, that doesn’t stop us lining up our ducks.

And I hate to say it, you look at Celtic’s PR and it’s light years ahead of us. They’re involved in the worst cover up in Scottish football, and yet theY deny and deflect at every opportunity, with high degrees of success. I can’t help but feel they wouldn’t take this lying down, and would probably have had a riposte by now had a Rangers season ticket holder reported their behaviour in Europe.
 
Wilkinsvolley said:
Well it is and the punishment is the same.
You can’t be outraged about people being abused for being different then argue for the right to abuse people for being different.
Click to expand...
FFS , how can you miss my point , it was made clearly enough. Race is not a choice , religion is . If someone abuses me for being white then their an idiot, they are free to abuse my religion anyday, even if I was stupid enough to have one.
 
Ianferguson said:
FFS , how can you miss my point , it was made clearly enough. Race is not a choice , religion is . If someone abuses me for being white then their an idiot, they are free to abuse my religion anyday, even if I was stupid enough to have one.
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it isn’t me who needs to get your point. I told you they’re under the same definition. That’s UEFA who run the competition and decide the rules. It’s them you need to contact and convince their definition is wrong. Until that happens we’re going to move up the scale of punishment until we’re not in Europe at all.
 
Bumplittledipper said:
Ok pal, we will take the hit and let the rest go on unchecked.

Keep up the good work. Pffffft
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Not saying we don't challenge other issues, what I'm saying is let's try sorting our own mess first. There are far too many threads on this trying to deflect, the yahoos must be loving looking at this place tonight.
 
Yes this isn't FARE as said on another thread it's high time the legal bigwigs do what their paid handsomely for and question the sanctions the facts and reasons why but until this happens these sanctions, fines and general making Rangers FC and the fans the embodiment of evil they will continue to increase in severity
 
RBRFC said:
Qatar is also a brutal dictatorship (is there another kind?) with no Rule of Law, no democracy, no rights for workers, limited rights for women and even less for religious minorities, where people are arrested and held without charge without limit of time and without trial. What say FARE - well, nothing.

FARE is Europe based, but UEFA is the most influential member of FIFA, and many European teams will participate in 3 years.

Iran is worse than all the above and participated in the last world cup, they still stone women to death for the accusation of adultery.

The last World Cup was in Russia, a psuedo- democracy with a dictator for life running the show - what said FARE? Nothing.

FARE run a football v Homophobia campaign, among others, so I am confused by the above.

The above information is all objectively verifiable from overwhelming data - so dont take my word for it, look it up.
Click to expand...
Fare have one objective and one objective only - to destroy Rangers.
They don't give a %^*& about anything else
 
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