Celtic not getting ‘their’ officials in Europe

Vince

Vince

Well-Known Member
Last 5 European games for them and us:

Celtic ... 59 fouls conceded: 15 yellow / 1 red (3.6 fouls per card on average)
Rangers ... 59 fouls concede: 17 yellow (3.4 fouls per card)

Our fouls conceded are exactly the same and as expected our cards per foul is averaging around the same. Both teams being officiated to similar standards it seems.

Now let’s look at the last 5 SPFL games:

Celtic ... 51 fouls conceded: 2 yellow (25.5 fouls per card)
Rangers ... 68 fouls conceded: 7 yellow / 1 red (8.5 fouls per card)

Celtic are unique, rooted to the bottom of the disciplinary table - and out on their own in the SPFL with these averages. For example look at Kilmarnock who have the closest foul count next to Celtic with just 2 more fouls conceded:

Kilmarnock ... 53 fouls conceded: 10 yellow (5.3 fouls per card)

This has been going on since we came back up. The stats don’t make sense as they should average out by and large - like they do in Europe. Either this is corrupt, or Celtic foul differently - and then they must foul differently again in Europe.

Considering the long-term pattern, and the blatant avoidance of Madden to dish out two yellows to McGregor in the game vs them, the avoidance of booking them for repeated fouls - well I’m going for corruption.
 
Vince said:
Last 5 European games for them and us:

Celtic ... 59 fouls conceded: 15 yellow / 1 red (3.6 fouls per card on average)
Rangers ... 59 fouls concede: 17 yellow (3.4 fouls per card)

Our fouls conceded are exactly the same and as expected our cards per foul is averaging around the same. Both teams being officiated to similar standards it seems.

Now let’s look at the last 5 SPFL games:

Celtic ... 51 fouls conceded: 2 yellow (25.5 fouls per card)
Rangers ... 68 fouls conceded: 7 yellow / 1 red (8.5 fouls per card)

Celtic are unique, rooted to the bottom of the disciplinary table - and out on their own in the SPFL with these averages. For example look at Kilmarnock who have the closest foul count next to Celtic with just 2 more fouls conceded:

Kilmarnock ... 53 fouls conceded: 10 yellow (5.3 fouls per card)

This has been going on since we came back up. The stats don’t make sense as they should average out by and large - like they do in Europe. Either this is corrupt, or Celtic foul differently - and then they must foul differently again in Europe.

Considering the long-term pattern, and the blatant avoidance of Madden to dish out two yellows to McGregor in the game vs them, the avoidance of booking them for repeated fouls - well I’m going for corruption.
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Stats don't lie mate.
Pure and simple, it's cheating .
That cùnt brown is not so untouchable in Europe, is he.
 
ElBarrileteCosmico said:
%^*& sakes , who cares . Mental that you’d post this after such a lovely night for us.
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Difference being we've always shrugged this off meanwhile Celtic fans are writing books about throw ins that went against them. Their quest to he offended or feel aggrieved has led to them being refereed to a different standard.

Its led to players staying on the park when they should be off it and penalties or offside goals that might not have been allowed elsewhere. Officials arent cheating they're just terrified to upset Celtic and their fans given the potential outcry
 
Vince said:
Last 5 European games for them and us:

Celtic ... 59 fouls conceded: 15 yellow / 1 red (3.6 fouls per card on average)
Rangers ... 59 fouls concede: 17 yellow (3.4 fouls per card)

Our fouls conceded are exactly the same and as expected our cards per foul is averaging around the same. Both teams being officiated to similar standards it seems.

Now let’s look at the last 5 SPFL games:

Celtic ... 51 fouls conceded: 2 yellow (25.5 fouls per card)
Rangers ... 68 fouls conceded: 7 yellow / 1 red (8.5 fouls per card)

Celtic are unique, rooted to the bottom of the disciplinary table - and out on their own in the SPFL with these averages. For example look at Kilmarnock who have the closest foul count next to Celtic with just 2 more fouls conceded:

Kilmarnock ... 53 fouls conceded: 10 yellow (5.3 fouls per card)

This has been going on since we came back up. The stats don’t make sense as they should average out by and large - like they do in Europe. Either this is corrupt, or Celtic foul differently - and then they must foul differently again in Europe.

Considering the long-term pattern, and the blatant avoidance of Madden to dish out two yellows to McGregor in the game vs them, the avoidance of booking them for repeated fouls - well I’m going for corruption.
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Very interesting, would not have known if you didnt post. have any of the brave media types touched on this?
 
ElBarrileteCosmico said:
%^*& sakes , who cares . Mental that you’d post this after such a lovely night for us.
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This is a chat forum to discuss all things Rangers. Why are you so butt hurt when someone wants to talk about something other than a great win for us? Yeah I'm buzzing too but I at least find this interesting and previous posters are right, something is up and it could possibly cost us the league if its not challenged. If you don't care for the subject, don't open the thread, or at least don't comment and ruin a discussion some of us are interested in. The forum is for everyone, not just you, so let us all enjoy it eh.
 
It’s been fairly obvious that rangers are being referred to different standard in Scotland.

Even the 4th official has been influencing getting out players sent off (and wrongly!)
 
I caught the last 10 mins of the Rennes game and you could see the shock in Browns face when he was getting pulled up for fouls, but also a look of oh no I’m not getting away with it tonight. That Bayo elbowed their captain leaving him out cold, an absolute red card, he was shocked he was even getting a yellow. Then there was Sutton commenting on it “he was only using his arms for trajectory” “he has to defend himself” this as the player is being stretchered off. Spent the rest of the game slating the ref.

Also noticed in our game last night, their player being booked 5 mins or so after committing the offence due to the ref waiting for play to stop. Scottish refs take note
 
StuGers said:
It’s been fairly obvious that rangers are being referred to different standard in Scotland.

Even the 4th official has been influencing getting out players sent off (and wrongly!)
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I think it’s different from that. They are not being reffed in a way that all other clubs have to suffer. They have either intimidated refs into being lenient on them or it’s untrustworthy referees.
 
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Mustang mad said:
Very interesting, would not have known if you didnt post. have any of the brave media types touched on this?
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I phoned Radio Clyde about this years ago. I cant remember when but Delahunt was on the show. Him and Keevins couldnt explain this rather strange phenomenon. Back then Celtic players were allowed to commit approximately twice as many fouls as all other SPL teams before getting booked.
 
Vince said:
Last 5 European games for them and us:

Celtic ... 59 fouls conceded: 15 yellow / 1 red (3.6 fouls per card on average)
Rangers ... 59 fouls concede: 17 yellow (3.4 fouls per card)

Our fouls conceded are exactly the same and as expected our cards per foul is averaging around the same. Both teams being officiated to similar standards it seems.

Now let’s look at the last 5 SPFL games:

Celtic ... 51 fouls conceded: 2 yellow (25.5 fouls per card)
Rangers ... 68 fouls conceded: 7 yellow / 1 red (8.5 fouls per card)

Celtic are unique, rooted to the bottom of the disciplinary table - and out on their own in the SPFL with these averages. For example look at Kilmarnock who have the closest foul count next to Celtic with just 2 more fouls conceded:

Kilmarnock ... 53 fouls conceded: 10 yellow (5.3 fouls per card)

This has been going on since we came back up. The stats don’t make sense as they should average out by and large - like they do in Europe. Either this is corrupt, or Celtic foul differently - and then they must foul differently again in Europe.

Considering the long-term pattern, and the blatant avoidance of Madden to dish out two yellows to McGregor in the game vs them, the avoidance of booking them for repeated fouls - well I’m going for corruption.
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Hmm, interesting stats based on a low sample size that is probably explained through virtue of Celtic playing significantly better teams in Europe than they do in Scotland, hence they committ more fouls. Fairly straightforward.

I'd argue that the worst refereeing performances we had against us last year were in Europe. Games against Ufa, Moscow and Vienna were terrible.
 
We wont win that league until we find a way deal with the ref situation.

For years it was Thomson and now its Madden. He has been trained by the master to take over and manipulate and influence results make sure press coverage is positive. Dont be fooled there is no poor standard these guys are good at what they do and enjoy being tim referees.

When a number of our most important fixtures are done by a dishonest ref thats desperate to cause problems, and obv assist Celtic too, it hands them a massive advantage in the title race anyone that cannot understand that should be blanked.
 
The disparity in the stats there are too wide for it to be purely incompetence. Although that does play a large part,, something the League should be looking at Independently but I won't hold my breath.
And they wonder why there was no Scottish officials at the World Cup! Yet Iran, Burundi and the mighty Tahiti had representation of competent officials
 
ClockworkOrange said:
Hmm, interesting stats based on a low sample size that is probably explained through virtue of Celtic playing significantly better teams in Europe than they do in Scotland, hence they committ more fouls. Fairly straightforward.

I'd argue that the worst refereeing performances we had against us last year were in Europe. Games against Ufa, Moscow and Vienna were terrible.
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The stats in Scotland are there for all to see. 34 yellow cards last year. 15 less than the side nearest to them. It's definitely 'interesting' alright.
 
ElBarrileteCosmico said:
No you couldn’t. Well not without looking like a massive tool.
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Only one tool in this thread through the night.

ClockworkOrange said:
Hmm, interesting stats based on a low sample size that is probably explained through virtue of Celtic playing significantly better teams in Europe than they do in Scotland, hence they committ more fouls. Fairly straightforward.

I'd argue that the worst refereeing performances we had against us last year were in Europe. Games against Ufa, Moscow and Vienna were terrible.
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16/17 - https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/sco...sstabelle/wettbewerb/SC1/plus/?saison_id=2016

17/18 - https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/sco...sstabelle/wettbewerb/SC1/plus/?saison_id=2017

18/19 - https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/sco...sstabelle/wettbewerb/SC1/plus/?saison_id=2018

This season so far - https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/scottish-premiership/fairnesstabelle/wettbewerb/SC1

Fairly straightforward to see as you say
 
i would suggest talking to some refs association would be a waste of time same with John Fleming or Craig Thomson.

You really think people that are involved in refereeing dont know what is going on and agree with the behaviour of refs like Madden. Lenient and cuddlin tims while showing red after red after red to our players. Its seen as top refereeing up here.

lets just start with madden, everyone at the club from the board all the way down should make it clear this guy should not be refereeing important games as hes not only totally biased against Rangers he is also desperate to help out Celtic.

He thinks we are never going to say anything and are too weak to mention the subject..... that is why he does it and will continue doing it.
 
Bowery Boy said:
The stats in Scotland are there for all to see. 34 yellow cards last year. 15 less than the side nearest to them. It's definitely 'interesting' alright.
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I like a bet on yellow and red cards and they're not interesting stats unless you clarify the total points total or style of team of the club involved.

It's a general rule but teams who keep the ball, go into the lead and win games tend to ensure that the opponents end up committing more fouls against them - that's one of the reasons, @Kirbys House that the fairplay table in 2016-17 doesn't mean an awful lot in isolation unless you acknowledge Celtic's unusually high points total and the fact that they went the season unbeaten.

Anyway, I'm starting to sound like Kevin Pullein in the Racing Post on a Saturday. If there was a bet for Celtic to get more bookings in Europe than they do in Scotland I'd take it. What'll happen this weekend is that they'll have most of the ball against Killie, who'll have to commit fouls to take it off them and chase the game because they'll probably take 3 or 4 off them and people will get upset when Killie end up with more points bookings.
 
StuGers said:
It’s been fairly obvious that rangers are being referred to different standard in Scotland.

Even the 4th official has been influencing getting out players sent off (and wrongly!)
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I dont think we are.

I think it's just Celtic reffed differently to everybody else.
 
ClockworkOrange said:
I like a bet on yellow and red cards and they're not interesting stats unless you clarify the total points total or style of team of the club involved.

It's a general rule but teams who keep the ball, go into the lead and win games tend to ensure that the opponents end up committing more fouls against them - that's one of the reasons, @Kirbys House that the fairplay table in 2016-17 doesn't mean an awful lot in isolation unless you acknowledge Celtic's unusually high points total and the fact that they went the season unbeaten.

Anyway, I'm starting to sound like Kevin Pullein in the Racing Post on a Saturday. If there was a bet for Celtic to get more bookings in Europe than they do in Scotland I'd take it. What'll happen this weekend is that they'll have most of the ball against Killie, who'll have to commit fouls to take it off them and chase the game because they'll probably take 3 or 4 off them and people will get upset when Killie end up with more points bookings.
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So why do Rangers get more bookings than some of the diddy teams then? I'm fairly sure our possession stats are similar to theirs, perhaps even more dominant.

A lot of our supporters live in denial when it comes to refereeing in this country. It is a huge problem.
 
ClockworkOrange said:
I like a bet on yellow and red cards and they're not interesting stats unless you clarify the total points total or style of team of the club involved.

It's a general rule but teams who keep the ball, go into the lead and win games tend to ensure that the opponents end up committing more fouls against them - that's one of the reasons, @Kirbys House that the fairplay table in 2016-17 doesn't mean an awful lot in isolation unless you acknowledge Celtic's unusually high points total and the fact that they went the season unbeaten.

Anyway, I'm starting to sound like Kevin Pullein in the Racing Post on a Saturday. If there was a bet for Celtic to get more bookings in Europe than they do in Scotland I'd take it. What'll happen this weekend is that they'll have most of the ball against Killie, who'll have to commit fouls to take it off them and chase the game because they'll probably take 3 or 4 off them and people will get upset when Killie end up with more points bookings.
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.......but none of that explains the disparity in what should be, given a small tolerance, an even statistic with winning clubs slightly better off.

The number of fouls per card should be more or less the same.

A disparity of more than 200%: ie FC Semtex players can commit more than 3 times as many fouls as Rangers players before they are sanctioned, cannot be explained by objective factors.
 
Beaton for example in his career has awarded Celtic 10 penalties, and Rangers 4. Willie Collum has awarded Celtic 20 penalties and awarded Rangers 11. Whyte and her predecessors have cited Rangers players for various alleged on field indiscretions, at a ratio of around 10:1.

Troubled Tom

https://www.vanguardbears.co.uk/article.php?i=288&a=troubled-tom Beaton for example in his career has awarded Celtic 10 penalties, and Rangers 4. Willie Collum has awarded Celtic 20 penalties and awarded Rangers 11. Whyte and her predecessors have cited Rangers players for various alleged on...
www.followfollow.com www.followfollow.com
 
ClockworkOrange said:
I like a bet on yellow and red cards and they're not interesting stats unless you clarify the total points total or style of team of the club involved.

It's a general rule but teams who keep the ball, go into the lead and win games tend to ensure that the opponents end up committing more fouls against them - that's one of the reasons, @Kirbys House that the fairplay table in 2016-17 doesn't mean an awful lot in isolation unless you acknowledge Celtic's unusually high points total and the fact that they went the season unbeaten.

Anyway, I'm starting to sound like Kevin Pullein in the Racing Post on a Saturday. If there was a bet for Celtic to get more bookings in Europe than they do in Scotland I'd take it. What'll happen this weekend is that they'll have most of the ball against Killie, who'll have to commit fouls to take it off them and chase the game because they'll probably take 3 or 4 off them and people will get upset when Killie end up with more points bookings.
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Fair do's re 16/17 but there's an obvious disparity last season when we were challenging.
 
The ref strike deliberately engineered in 2010 by the Timpanzees changed everything. They harassed, intimidated refs and often physically confronted them on a weekly basis. The refs wouldn't stand for it and complained to their bosses at the SFA, who refused to support them. Refs ever since just want a quiet life and act accordingly where that horrible club are concerned. Gangsterism has won.
 
Bowery Boy said:
So why do Rangers get more bookings than some of the diddy teams then? I'm fairly sure our possession stats are similar to theirs, perhaps even more dominant.

A lot of our supporters live in denial when it comes to refereeing in this country. It is a huge problem.
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Generally, we've awful and under-performed for a few seasons. We have failed to dominate teams like we should have and dropped many, many points to inferior opposition in games where we've lacked direction, shape and intelligence. Twice in the last three seasons we've finished behind Aberdeen!

Our stats are probably also skewed by players unfairly getting a reputation for being wrong 'uns: Jack and Morelos in particular.
 
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