I like a bet on yellow and red cards and they're not interesting stats unless you clarify the total points total or style of team of the club involved.
It's a general rule but teams who keep the ball, go into the lead and win games tend to ensure that the opponents end up committing more fouls against them - that's one of the reasons, @Kirbys House that the fairplay table in 2016-17 doesn't mean an awful lot in isolation unless you acknowledge Celtic's unusually high points total and the fact that they went the season unbeaten.
Anyway, I'm starting to sound like Kevin Pullein in the Racing Post on a Saturday. If there was a bet for Celtic to get more bookings in Europe than they do in Scotland I'd take it. What'll happen this weekend is that they'll have most of the ball against Killie, who'll have to commit fouls to take it off them and chase the game because they'll probably take 3 or 4 off them and people will get upset when Killie end up with more points bookings.
This should get shared far and wide!Last 5 European games for them and us:
Celtic ... 59 fouls conceded: 15 yellow / 1 red (3.6 fouls per card on average)
Rangers ... 59 fouls concede: 17 yellow (3.4 fouls per card)
Our fouls conceded are exactly the same and as expected our cards per foul is averaging around the same. Both teams being officiated to similar standards it seems.
Now let’s look at the last 5 SPFL games:
Celtic ... 51 fouls conceded: 2 yellow (25.5 fouls per card)
Rangers ... 68 fouls conceded: 7 yellow / 1 red (8.5 fouls per card)
Celtic are unique, rooted to the bottom of the disciplinary table - and out on their own in the SPFL with these averages. For example look at Kilmarnock who have the closest foul count next to Celtic with just 2 more fouls conceded:
Kilmarnock ... 53 fouls conceded: 10 yellow (5.3 fouls per card)
This has been going on since we came back up. The stats don’t make sense as they should average out by and large - like they do in Europe. Either this is corrupt, or Celtic foul differently - and then they must foul differently again in Europe.
Considering the long-term pattern, and the blatant avoidance of Madden to dish out two yellows to McGregor in the game vs them, the avoidance of booking them for repeated fouls - well I’m going for corruption.
GoOd stats and only goes to show that refs are letting them with murder here. Last night brown was booked and free kick given for dangerous challenge yet in Scotland he would have got away with it.
When beliefs are proven by facts it always upset a few on here for some reason
Exactly. And that's before we get to 11:1 ratio of being summoned by the compliance officer. Imagine for a second these card stats etc were the other way around? Nah. I can't either.That'd be a fair point, but the issue in Scotland is that Celtic are allowed to commit more fouls than any other team before they're cautioned. If they were giving away far less fouls then the lack of cards would be understandable. But for them to have 14 less cards than the next team is a joke.
I am totally convinced , it is not just us, any football man knows fine well , that if manager is happy with the ref he keeps his mouth shut, when did you last hear CFC complain since the ref strike, Celtic no longer complain about refs or linesman, why, they have no need to, and that is proof positive to me, that the officials in this country are both corrupt, and Cowards,Last 5 European games for them and us:
Celtic ... 59 fouls conceded: 15 yellow / 1 red (3.6 fouls per card on average)
Rangers ... 59 fouls concede: 17 yellow (3.4 fouls per card)
Our fouls conceded are exactly the same and as expected our cards per foul is averaging around the same. Both teams being officiated to similar standards it seems.
Now let’s look at the last 5 SPFL games:
Celtic ... 51 fouls conceded: 2 yellow (25.5 fouls per card)
Rangers ... 68 fouls conceded: 7 yellow / 1 red (8.5 fouls per card)
Celtic are unique, rooted to the bottom of the disciplinary table - and out on their own in the SPFL with these averages. For example look at Kilmarnock who have the closest foul count next to Celtic with just 2 more fouls conceded:
Kilmarnock ... 53 fouls conceded: 10 yellow (5.3 fouls per card)
This has been going on since we came back up. The stats don’t make sense as they should average out by and large - like they do in Europe. Either this is corrupt, or Celtic foul differently - and then they must foul differently again in Europe.
Considering the long-term pattern, and the blatant avoidance of Madden to dish out two yellows to McGregor in the game vs them, the avoidance of booking them for repeated fouls - well I’m going for corruption.
Well researched. I don't believe that the scottish refs set out to be biased against us. However, I do believe that their decision making is swayed by the experience that decisons against Celtic are highlighted and debated for the next week, whereas any against us are ignored. Subconsciously, they are taking the easy route.Last 5 European games for them and us:
Celtic ... 59 fouls conceded: 15 yellow / 1 red (3.6 fouls per card on average)
Rangers ... 59 fouls concede: 17 yellow (3.4 fouls per card)
Our fouls conceded are exactly the same and as expected our cards per foul is averaging around the same. Both teams being officiated to similar standards it seems.
Now let’s look at the last 5 SPFL games:
Celtic ... 51 fouls conceded: 2 yellow (25.5 fouls per card)
Rangers ... 68 fouls conceded: 7 yellow / 1 red (8.5 fouls per card)
Celtic are unique, rooted to the bottom of the disciplinary table - and out on their own in the SPFL with these averages. For example look at Kilmarnock who have the closest foul count next to Celtic with just 2 more fouls conceded:
Kilmarnock ... 53 fouls conceded: 10 yellow (5.3 fouls per card)
This has been going on since we came back up. The stats don’t make sense as they should average out by and large - like they do in Europe. Either this is corrupt, or Celtic foul differently - and then they must foul differently again in Europe.
Considering the long-term pattern, and the blatant avoidance of Madden to dish out two yellows to McGregor in the game vs them, the avoidance of booking them for repeated fouls - well I’m going for corruption.
Very interesting post .
All other clubs should be all over this, not just Rangers.
Well researched. I don't believe that the scottish refs set out to be biased against us. However, I do believe that their decision making is swayed by the experience that decisons against Celtic are highlighted and debated for the next week, whereas any against us are ignored. Subconsciously, they are taking the easy route.
Only one tool in this thread through the night.
16/17 - https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/sco...sstabelle/wettbewerb/SC1/plus/?saison_id=2016
17/18 - https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/sco...sstabelle/wettbewerb/SC1/plus/?saison_id=2017
18/19 - https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/sco...sstabelle/wettbewerb/SC1/plus/?saison_id=2018
This season so far - https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/scottish-premiership/fairnesstabelle/wettbewerb/SC1
Fairly straightforward to see as you say
Generally, we've awful and under-performed for a few seasons. We have failed to dominate teams like we should have and dropped many, many points to inferior opposition in games where we've lacked direction, shape and intelligence. Twice in the last three seasons we've finished behind Aberdeen!
Our stats are probably also skewed by players unfairly getting a reputation for being wrong 'uns: Jack and Morelos in particular.
Some lengths you'll go to in order to defend the indefensible.
Hmm, interesting stats based on a low sample size that is probably explained through virtue of Celtic playing significantly better teams in Europe than they do in Scotland, hence they committ more fouls. Fairly straightforward.
I'd argue that the worst refereeing performances we had against us last year were in Europe. Games against Ufa, Moscow and Vienna were terrible.
%^*& sakes , who cares . Mental that you’d post this after such a lovely night for us.
The sample size in Scotland is running to around 5 seasons now - where we are playing the same quality. They are also playing the same quality by and large to us in Europe over those last 5 games and our averages are the same.
In Scotland however we are a different thing altogether. No other team will get near their average cards per foul ratio - no matter how long the sample size is - and we will be down the disciplinary table again beside teams like Motherwell. This happened also before Morelos arrived when Ryan Jack was the one collecting easy reds.
%^*& sakes , who cares . Mental that you’d post this after such a lovely night for us.
It doesn't stop them handing out 9 red cards to us and a shitload more yellows than the poets against "significantly" worse teams than in Europe.Hmm, interesting stats based on a low sample size that is probably explained through virtue of Celtic playing significantly better teams in Europe than they do in Scotland, hence they committ more fouls. Fairly straightforward.
I'd argue that the worst refereeing performances we had against us last year were in Europe. Games against Ufa, Moscow and Vienna were terrible.
It doesn't stop them handing out 9 red cards to us and a shitload more yellows than the poets against "significantly" worse teams than in Europe.
Or the fact that the biggest thug in Scottish football got his one and only red card at the tail end of the season for over celebrating a goal.
I don't think your reason washes. A thug is a thug.
Yeah! That was the point I was making. The league was over.And that was in the 92 minute after they had secured their win
'see we are not biased, we have booked Broony'
and that particular gameYeah! That was the point I was making. The league was over.
Alfie got 4 of them.and that particular game
It doesn't stop them handing out 9 red cards to us and a shitload more yellows than the poets against "significantly" worse teams than in Europe.
Or the fact that the biggest thug in Scottish football got his one and only red card at the tail end of the season for over celebrating a goal.
I don't think your reason washes. A thug is a thug.
I phoned Radio Clyde about this years ago. I cant remember when but Delahunt was on the show. Him and Keevins couldnt explain this rather strange phenomenon. Back then Celtic players were allowed to commit approximately twice as many fouls as all other SPL teams before getting booked.
I don't see how the stats flipping for one season proves that at all. You've picked the only season we had a better record than them since 2004. When we won 3IAR, they had the better record 2/3. This is not a coincidence, I'm afraid.Fair enough. I think I've explained it fairly well and I think the flipped stats when were on top in Scottish football back it up as well. If you like a bet I'd probably advice you not to bet on yellow and red card counts, that's all.
So why do Rangers get more bookings than some of the diddy teams then? I'm fairly sure our possession stats are similar to theirs, perhaps even more dominant.
A lot of our supporters live in denial when it comes to refereeing in this country. It is a huge problem.
I don't see how the stats flipping for one season proves that at all. You've picked the only season we had a better record than them since 2004. When we won 3IAR, they had the better record 2/3. This is not a coincidence, I'm afraid.
%^*& sakes , who cares . Mental that you’d post this after such a lovely night for us.
Scottish refs are generally poor and intimidated by them - I'm not sure these stats tell the whole story, though.
I like a bet on yellow and red cards and they're not interesting stats unless you clarify the total points total or style of team of the club involved.
It's a general rule but teams who keep the ball, go into the lead and win games tend to ensure that the opponents end up committing more fouls against them - that's one of the reasons, @Kirbys House that the fairplay table in 2016-17 doesn't mean an awful lot in isolation unless you acknowledge Celtic's unusually high points total and the fact that they went the season unbeaten.
Anyway, I'm starting to sound like Kevin Pullein in the Racing Post on a Saturday. If there was a bet for Celtic to get more bookings in Europe than they do in Scotland I'd take it. What'll happen this weekend is that they'll have most of the ball against Killie, who'll have to commit fouls to take it off them and chase the game because they'll probably take 3 or 4 off them and people will get upset when Killie end up with more points bookings.
Last 5 European games for them and us:
Celtic ... 59 fouls conceded: 15 yellow / 1 red (3.6 fouls per card on average)
Rangers ... 59 fouls concede: 17 yellow (3.4 fouls per card)
Our fouls conceded are exactly the same and as expected our cards per foul is averaging around the same. Both teams being officiated to similar standards it seems.
Now let’s look at the last 5 SPFL games:
Celtic ... 51 fouls conceded: 2 yellow (25.5 fouls per card)
Rangers ... 68 fouls conceded: 7 yellow / 1 red (8.5 fouls per card)
Celtic are unique, rooted to the bottom of the disciplinary table - and out on their own in the SPFL with these averages. For example look at Kilmarnock who have the closest foul count next to Celtic with just 2 more fouls conceded:
Kilmarnock ... 53 fouls conceded: 10 yellow (5.3 fouls per card)
This has been going on since we came back up. The stats don’t make sense as they should average out by and large - like they do in Europe. Either this is corrupt, or Celtic foul differently - and then they must foul differently again in Europe.
Considering the long-term pattern, and the blatant avoidance of Madden to dish out two yellows to McGregor in the game vs them, the avoidance of booking them for repeated fouls - well I’m going for corruption.
That’s all good and I completely agree, but it doesn’t stand up when you compare it to Rangers, who share similar domination of games and time spent ahead of the game. Why do we seem light years away when it comes to cards and fouls/card?
Fair enough. I think I've explained it fairly well and I think the flipped stats when were on top in Scottish football back it up as well. If you like a bet I'd probably advice you not to bet on yellow and red card counts, that's all.
A bet?
I’ll bet my house we get more yellows and reds than the beasts.
Even if we win the league.
Mate, the difference in quality between the sides is negligible, the card count most definitely is not.
Last 5 European games for them and us:
Celtic ... 59 fouls conceded: 15 yellow / 1 red (3.6 fouls per card on average)
Rangers ... 59 fouls concede: 17 yellow (3.4 fouls per card)
Our fouls conceded are exactly the same and as expected our cards per foul is averaging around the same. Both teams being officiated to similar standards it seems.
Now let’s look at the last 5 SPFL games:
Celtic ... 51 fouls conceded: 2 yellow (25.5 fouls per card)
Rangers ... 68 fouls conceded: 7 yellow / 1 red (8.5 fouls per card)
Celtic are unique, rooted to the bottom of the disciplinary table - and out on their own in the SPFL with these averages. For example look at Kilmarnock who have the closest foul count next to Celtic with just 2 more fouls conceded:
Kilmarnock ... 53 fouls conceded: 10 yellow (5.3 fouls per card)
This has been going on since we came back up. The stats don’t make sense as they should average out by and large - like they do in Europe. Either this is corrupt, or Celtic foul differently - and then they must foul differently again in Europe.
Considering the long-term pattern, and the blatant avoidance of Madden to dish out two yellows to McGregor in the game vs them, the avoidance of booking them for repeated fouls - well I’m going for corruption.
Mate, you are going out of your way to suggest referees are even handed and it’s all down to magnificent celtc’s superiority.I would as well but the odds wouldn't accurately reflect the chances of it happening, sadly.
The difference in quality is getting smaller, but it hasn't been negligible for the past three seasons.
This year we have. Not for the past three seasons, though.
I'd need to back and have a closer look at those seasons in that case - good thing I wasn't betting on cards back then!
All I'd argue is that teams who enjoy more possession and are significantly better than their nearest rivals are more likely to have fewer bookings against them. When I have a bet on cards my heart sinks when I see that the team I've bet on have lost the game, because ideally you want them to have won and have been hanging on for the victory, committing more fouls in the process (last night for instance - we committed more fouls and yellow cards). Celtic have unfortunately been the best team in Scotland for the past three seasons and their yellow and red card count matches that. They're shite in Europe, have less of the ball and need to commit fouls to get it, hence they give away more fouls there.
Scottish refs are generally poor and intimidated by them - I'm not sure these stats tell the whole story, though.
Good work mate, i have been banging on about this for ages with my mate, they are treated differently than everyone else, it is proven for me when they are in Europe, they have no influence with Euro refs, no intimidation etc,Last 5 European games for them and us:
Celtic ... 59 fouls conceded: 15 yellow / 1 red (3.6 fouls per card on average)
Rangers ... 59 fouls concede: 17 yellow (3.4 fouls per card)
Our fouls conceded are exactly the same and as expected our cards per foul is averaging around the same. Both teams being officiated to similar standards it seems.
Now let’s look at the last 5 SPFL games:
Celtic ... 51 fouls conceded: 2 yellow (25.5 fouls per card)
Rangers ... 68 fouls conceded: 7 yellow / 1 red (8.5 fouls per card)
Celtic are unique, rooted to the bottom of the disciplinary table - and out on their own in the SPFL with these averages. For example look at Kilmarnock who have the closest foul count next to Celtic with just 2 more fouls conceded:
Kilmarnock ... 53 fouls conceded: 10 yellow (5.3 fouls per card)
This has been going on since we came back up. The stats don’t make sense as they should average out by and large - like they do in Europe. Either this is corrupt, or Celtic foul differently - and then they must foul differently again in Europe.
Considering the long-term pattern, and the blatant avoidance of Madden to dish out two yellows to McGregor in the game vs them, the avoidance of booking them for repeated fouls - well I’m going for corruption.
The ref strike deliberately engineered in 2010 by the Timpanzees changed everything. They harassed, intimidated refs and often physically confronted them on a weekly basis. The refs wouldn't stand for it and complained to their bosses at the SFA, who refused to support them. Refs ever since just want a quiet life and act accordingly where that horrible club are concerned. Gangsterism has won.
It doesn't explain why they're allowed to foul more than other teams before receiving a booking though.
Eduoard booked for a disgusting dive and Christie should have been booked for the same.
It seems this is their new tactic now to dive, cheat , take extra yards at throw ins and just be complete kunts
See also post #49Eduoard booked for a disgusting dive and Christie should have been booked for the same.
It seems this is their new tactic now to dive, cheat , take extra yards at throw ins and just be complete kunts