Tax Officials Blamed For Rangers Downfall – HMRC Mistake Wipes Millions From Ibrox Bill (The Times)

Tugay83 said:
That's all true but there is zero prospect of that fact forming the basis of a legal challenge regarding the club going into admin. To suggest it could is pie in the sky nonsense. Murray might have some other angle for suing HMRC but it won't be about Rangers going into admin because that happened under Whyte and for tax from after Murray's time.
Click to expand...

Bizarrely the last time I saw you feature so prominently on a thread was when we published our accounts.

Funny that.
 
Lenzie Loyal said:
I'd love the Murray & BDO story suing HMRC to be true.
Click to expand...

I was in a pub in town about 2015 and ended up chatting to a bloke at the bar about all things Rangers . It sticks in my head because A- I’m never in town anymore it was a rarity and B- This Guy was in with his mrs ,nice couple maybe late 30s , I was in with a mixed crowd but we seemed to get on well right away which is unusual in itself as I’m a right anti social bastard . The pub was that rammed that you couldn’t move so it was easy to just keep spraffing away .

Anyway this story by the times tonight is word for word what this guy told me was happening . I remember it struck me as unusual that this guy seemed familiar to me and really seemed to know his stuff . When he found out I was a bear and had been at the game we got round to talking about when we’d be back winning, what had happened with Murray etc , and he was adamant this wasn’t the last of Murray .

He said to me Murray is taking HMRC and after that the SPFL and SFA to Court over whats happened. He wasn’t speculating or drunk this guy which is why I remember him , he was utterly certain in what he was saying . It will take time but believe me this is nowhere near the end of it he kept saying . I mind saying to him I kind of hoped it was the end of it as it felt never ending , he said it’s not going to be bad news , people are due what’s coming to them after what they did to the club .

I’d completely forgotten about it until I read this thread headline . Of course the guy could’ve just been making it up but it wasn’t something I’d heard before or since and it struck me his conviction and certainty on it .I remember feeling a bit pissed off as in my head I just wanted it all to be in the past after a miserable three years or so .

Let’s hope it comes through - there will be a few quaking in their boots that’s for sure .
 
Gallons of midnight oil will being burned at P Quay CFC overnight tonight trying to rubbish this revelation.
 
SFraser3 said:
Running the risk of sounding like a dumbass especially with how harsh this place can be at times however here it goes...

Would it be possible for a fans group for instance ‘Club 1872’ to sue HMRC on behalf of the fans for emotional distress or some sort fancy Law jargon along those lines?
Click to expand...
This place isn’t harsh.
 
Gibraltar Loyal said:
Thing is the whole shambles is still rumbling on. No HMRC %^*& up...no whyte etc...no green...no fuckin ashley!
We are still paying for this. Pandoras box hasnt a look in
Click to expand...
This Pandora’s box has only just been taken out from under the bed. This is going to be huge. Worst case scenario is we are cleared of all charges and the moonhowlers look like the cunts they are. I just hope someone has the money and balls to pursue this
 
GarthamlockLoyal said:
HMRC overstated the tax bill Rangers faced by over £50m. The real bill amounted to less than £2m per year over a 10 year period, this makes me feel sick to the stomach btw.

Copeland.org
Click to expand...

without reading the whole thread, what is the real EBT tax amount? We owed £18mill in (well managed at that point) bank debt. Is that saying that the EBT debt was £2mill/yr for 10 years? Even just making that £20mill due in a lump sum, that would be £38mill due. Less than Hearts’ debt at the time.

And let’s look at the players that we lost anyway and likely conservative value on an open market:

Jelavic: £8mill (went for £6mill that disappeared in a distressed state)

Naismith: £8mill (outscoring Jelavic that season)

Davis: £4mill (renowned quality player entering prime of career)

Lafferty: £3mill (recognised internationalist goalscorer)

Aluko: £1.5mill (good winger who later proved ability in England but available on the cheap then)

Rhys McCabe: £800k up and coming talent holding down first team slot at Rangers.

Jamie Ness: £1mill another youth generally ranked above McCabe who had turned in some eye catching displays in old firm games.

Steven Whittiker: £2.5mill skillful wingback with goalscoring pedigree and substantial european experience.

Maurice Edu: £1.5mill. Highly rated American who had some great performances but had probably had enough poor ones to knock down his signing fee.

Allan MacGregor: £8mill. Scotland’s best goalkeeper. knocking £1mill off his lesser rival Gordon’s fee just because we never got any luck in transfers.

I take that as £38.3mill that we could have got in transfers just from the players that we lost anyway. Plus there were several other less illustrious names who would have got a few hundred k or who were later sold by Whyte. Now some were reaching the end of their contracts which would affect sale price. But, if the club was being run normally, we would not have been allowing that to happen.

It seems that our debt was always fully covered. And, if it was £2mill/yr then that was even easier to cover while retaining a decent playing staff. We’d have been a long way behind Celtic if we had sold all them without replacement. But we’d probably still have been second, especially if sales could be staggered to repaying £2mill/yr. And better cup runs, european money and SPL ticket pricing whilst not having our merchandise stolen would all have offset that considerably.
 
SDF91 said:
Nah, the Courts looked at whether the EBTs were in line with the legislation and ultimately found that they weren’t.

This concerns the amount of tax and penalties which HMRC claimed the oldco owned as a result of not applying the legislation correctly.
Click to expand...

Is there not an argument that if the correct figures had been involved then a deal may have been done and court action avoided.
 
BWO said:
Club could have sold Jelavic, Naishame & Davis and paid the bill (c.£20m)
Click to expand...

Ah, so by club being sold and pushed into admin they’re actually referring to refusal of CVA and then liquidation. Got it. I thought they were meaning Murray’s sale to Whyte.
 
thetoptier said:
does anyone then have the current figure of what is owed and to who

and the current amount BDO has recovered?
Click to expand...

BDO have taken in £25 million or so, most of it from a settlement with a firm of solicitors. Liquidators/legal fees are huge though.
 
Finding this hard to take in the years of suffering that our club and us supporters have went through and all the shit we got from other supporters was for nothing it’s disgusting that it’s took them so long to tell us this we all knew we were being stitched up but we couldn’t prove it.
 
"Incessant and unprecedented pursuit and abuse of Rangers over legal tax vehicles is found to be based on Sectarian bigotry" I won't hold my breath, awaiting more bad news
 
Hazylight1989 said:
Am I right in saying that the CVA of the oldco was blocked by HMRC due to liabilities which were calculated wrong ? Also why has it taken 7 years for this to come out.
Click to expand...

And did they know they had exaggerated at that time? if so folk are going to Jail.
 
It potentially opens a can of worms. Potential for lots of little court cases against HMRC from companies, staff and fans who were affected.
 
BlueKop said:
thats what i was thinking, but also wondered if it could be brought back completely
Click to expand...

The company can recommence trading. That might be enough. Maybe it could carry on.

A liquidation can be "recalled" in certain circumstances but I'm not sure that would apply in this situation.
 
sandbankbear said:
Celtic used an ebt but apparantly there’s was ok no fantasy bills there eh.
Click to expand...

they used several actually. Nakamura was the famous one but McNamarra also had his image rights paid by EBT. And, given that they are a very complicated instrument, it strikes me as hugely unlikely that they created them for just 2 players.
 
RFC 2012 P.L.C. (formerly The Rangers Football Club P.L.C., “the Company”) – In Liquidation Company Number: SC004276 In the Court of Session, reference P1134/12


10 June 2019

8. Conclusions We have attended to all statutory requirements throughout the course of the liquidation to date. Due to the significant issues to be resolved in the liquidation, the Joint Liquidators do not expect to be in a position to bring this case to a conclusion for some considerable time. Further reports will be circulated to creditors within six weeks of each six month anniversary of the date of liquidation.
 
The next thing all key interested parties should be doing.

Arrange a meeting with all people that have both financial club interest and those with media traction in attendance

Discuss discuss discuss

Agree Agree Agree

Be coherent, Be precise, Be organised, Be on the same message.

They ran rings round us in 2012 and the year before.

Time to return the favour.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Latest posts

Back
Top