Tax Officials Blamed For Rangers Downfall – HMRC Mistake Wipes Millions From Ibrox Bill (The Times)

[Starting Anew]

Is there not an argument that if the correct figures had been involved then a deal may have been done and court action avoided.

there’s also an argument that Lloyd’s would never have forced Murray into a distressed sale. Our bank debt was no issue. Lloyd’s were just terrified of the EBT debt coming up. If that was recognised to be manageable then it would seem likely that Murray would not have been ‘forced’ to sell.

 

[cambridgeblue]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1194756116011520000

 

[Grigo Yossarian]

Wasn't it rumoured we were a test case and that was the reason they were pursuing it so vigorously - even when they couldn't gain very much other than to just damage us.

Did any other high profile EBT cases come after that final ruling??

Didn’t they allow Arsenal to settle out of court ?

 

[Hillheadbear]

As a shareholder of the old company, i will be wanting my day in court.

So do a few of us. Perhaps it can be done as a class action if that exists in the UK.

 

[Gibraltar Loyal]

Lets get this whole 5 way agreement out in the open.
Lets start with with held money and illegal transfer embargoes
Lets see the minutes of the meetings. Who proposed what.

 

[Hillheadbear]

Let's bin the building bridges mantra and go full bridge over River kwai and blow up bridges.

Never forget, never forgive.

 

[Bobans27]

Hopefully Lawwells press conference where muttered the ‘nailed to the floor’ comments come back to bite him on the ass.

I have zero doubt Celtic are about to be involved in yet another cover up.

 

[BluenoseAL]

The company can recommence trading. That might be enough. Maybe it could carry on.

A liquidation can be "recalled" in certain circumstances but I'm not sure that would apply in this situation.

i hope its an avenue King can exploit, pipe-dream nonsense i know, but it's potential a huge revenue pot to be got at

 

[worcester bear]

I was in a pub in town about 2015 and ended up chatting to a bloke at the bar about all things Rangers . It sticks in my head because A- I’m never in town anymore it was a rarity and B- This Guy was in with his mrs ,nice couple maybe late 30s , I was in with a mixed crowd but we seemed to get on well right away which is unusual in itself as I’m a right anti social bastard . The pub was that rammed that you couldn’t move so it was easy to just keep spraffing away .

Anyway this story by the times tonight is word for word what this guy told me was happening . I remember it struck me as unusual that this guy seemed familiar to me and really seemed to know his stuff . When he found out I was a bear and had been at the game we got round to talking about when we’d be back winning, what had happened with Murray etc , and he was adamant this wasn’t the last of Murray .

He said to me Murray is taking HMRC and after that the SPFL and SFA to Court over whats happened. He wasn’t speculating or drunk this guy which is why I remember him , he was utterly certain in what he was saying . It will take time but believe me this is nowhere near the end of it he kept saying . I mind saying to him I kind of hoped it was the end of it as it felt never ending , he said it’s not going to be bad news , people are due what’s coming to them after what they did to the club .

I’d completely forgotten about it until I read this thread headline . Of course the guy could’ve just been making it up but it wasn’t something I’d heard before or since and it struck me his conviction and certainty on it .I remember feeling a bit pissed off as in my head I just wanted it all to be in the past after a miserable three years or so .

Let’s hope it comes through - there will be a few quaking in their boots that’s for sure .

Cool story bro

 

[Barry]

I’m not shocked by this in the slightest. Its what we have known all along.

 

[SDF91]

It potentially opens a can of worms. Potential for lots of little court cases against HMRC from companies, staff and fans who were affected.

Every company who has ever received an assessment from that officer should be picking up the phone to a solicitor.

If it can be shown that HMRC and in particular, this officer, deliberately overstated a tax assessment, they’ll never be out of court.

 

[Renfrew@UKGB&NI]

John Reid had dealings with that rat Thomson from ch4 news when he was secretary of defence. Thomson reported on wartorn countries. All of a sudden hes left,right and centre about a Scottish football club.
You scratch my back as they say.

 

[Gio#56]

What are you waiting for get your lawyer on the phone.

behave yourself. patience. I will await Mr Kings thoughts, after all he lost 20m, myself a few thousand.

 

[ChristchurchBear]

The next thing all key interested parties should be doing.

Arrange a meeting with all people that have both financial club interest and those with media traction in attendance

Discuss discuss discuss

Agree Agree Agree

Be coherent, Be precise, Be organised, Be on the same message.

They ran rings round us in 2012 and the year before.

Time to return the favour.

To be honest the best thing we can do is leave it to Dave King and let him run rings round them!

we all forget he was beingfucked over in South Africa at the time

 

[TavsRightFoot]

Douglas Fraser implying on Twitter the sources are questionable and having to be called out by the editor. Scumbag that Fraser is.

 

[El Jock Grande Sabia]

they used several actually. Nakamura was the famous one but McNamarra also had his image rights paid by EBT. And, given that they are a very complicated instrument, it strikes me as hugely unlikely that they created them for just 2 players.

Its neither her or there, but I'm fairly certain their big ebt was for Juninho.

 

[Gibraltar Loyal]

So do a few of us. Perhaps it can be done as a class action if that exists in the UK.

This is something id expect BDO to explore. They have all shareholder details. They should contact us all and take it from there

 

[DeeGer10]

Anyone else get tears in their eyes reading it.

Feel physically sick

I read the initial headlines and rumours and thought I’d be happy with this news.

Now I’m thinking about it and reading I can’t help but feel annoyed about it all.

 

[Big Buff]

The company can recommence trading. That might be enough. Maybe it could carry on.

A liquidation can be "recalled" in certain circumstances but I'm not sure that would apply in this situation.

It’s not going to be recalled.

Even if it does end up with more money than it owed (likely), the liquidators and lawyers fees are enormous and would still see a balance sheet deficit

 

[govwalker]

I hear ya!

But I want revenge!

I want names named!

I want heads to roll!

Exactly this.

Reid, Brian Wilson the lot of those bastards along with the SFA and SPFL sued too.

Every last one of the fckers.

 

[JayDee]

they used several actually. Nakamura was the famous one but McNamarra also had his image rights paid by EBT. And, given that they are a very complicated instrument, it strikes me as hugely unlikely that they created them for just 2 players.

Their accounts stated that the EBT scheme could apply to any employee or former employee. How many they actually used it for, I don't know.

 

[Jelle1880]

I'm gonna be up all night now ffs. Really curious what the club will do now.

 

[Gio#56]

I read the initial headlines and rumours and thought I’d be happy with this news.

Now I’m thinking about it and reading I can’t help but feel annoyed about it all.

true, but if this was deliberate, I expect jail time for fraudulent information gathering.

 

[ChristchurchBear]

I'm gonna be up all night now ffs. Really curious what the club will do now.

they won’t do anything tonight mate so try get some sleep

 

[HenningBerg]

Cool story bro

Yeh was waiting on that . to be honest it’s a pretty uncool story . It just all came back to me upon reading tonight’s Times story . Believe me or believe me not , makes no odds to me squire .

 

[Uddy Gers]

I long for the day HMRC receive their comeuppance.

 

[Gibraltar Loyal]

It’s not going to be recalled.

Even if it does end up with more money than it owed (likely), the liquidators and lawyers fees are enormous and would still see a balance sheet deficit

There might be a bit more money coming in if BDO or whoever go after HMRC...

 

[ChristchurchBear]

Yeh was waiting on that . to be honest it’s a pretty uncool story . It just all came back to me upon reading tonight’s Times story . Believe me or believe me not , makes no odds to me squire .

I have been ( told ) for a while Murray was in the pipeline, wanted to right the wrongs blah blah blah! Interesting

 

[DeeGer10]

true, but if this was deliberate, I expect jail time for fraudulent information gathering.

There’s nothing more I’d love in the next 12 months for us to win the league and just see HMRC getting consistently shafted from every angle.

 

[Big Buff]

There might be a bit more money coming in if BDO or whoever go after HMRC...

Even if they do, it’s very difficult to see enough money being brought in.

 

[dudzo]

The next thing all key interested parties should be doing.

Arrange a meeting with all people that have both financial club interest and those with media traction in attendance

Discuss discuss discuss

Agree Agree Agree

Be coherent, Be precise, Be organised, Be on the same message.

They ran rings round us in 2012 and the year before.

Time to return the favour.

100% we should be on the front foot and demand a emergency meeting with the spfl board

 

[insanicdrunk]

This made me laugh on twitter:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1194763667457421313

 

[Morty]

That paedophile rangers tax case twitter account has come out of hibernation. Cant link the tweets for some reason.

Who runs that account ?

 

[El Jock Grande Sabia]

Didn’t they allow Arsenal to settle out of court ?

They did. Allegedly around the £15-£20 million mark for a liability of over £100.

 

[GeckoBear29]

Forgive my ignorance, but when all is said and done, can the Oldco come back?

 

[govwalker]

I'm gonna be up all night now ffs. Really curious what the club will do now.

Hope the Hamster's been charged up

 

[Punt13]

Douglas Fraser implying on Twitter the sources are questionable and having to be called out by the editor. Scumbag that Fraser is.

You just know that him and his scumbag ilk at Pacific Quay CSC will be trying to pour as much scorn on this because of the implications it will undoubtedly have.

 

[trueblue77]

You just hope that for once we get some form of justice and vindication, but we just don’t ever seem to have any luck in this regard. The whole thing was a stitch up from day one.

 

[thetoptier]

behave yourself. patience. I will await Mr Kings thoughts, after all he lost 20m, myself a few thousand.

also include more than 6000 loyal fans who bought £7.7million worth of debenture seats at Ibrox – only to be robbed of their investments when the club plunged into administration.

 

[Wilkinsvolley]

Douglas Fraser implying on Twitter the sources are questionable and having to be called out by the editor. Scumbag that Fraser is.

His editor is calling him out?

 

[EH47]

It feels like a square kick in the balls. To have gone through the last 7 years, and now to be told it was a mistake.

Mistake my fucking arse.
It was a deliberate, measured conspiracy to %^*& us over, with co-operation between mentally challengeds at the bank and HMRC and with the full support of their rabble rousers in the media and sympathisers within other key clubs, and all at a time when the SPL and the SFA were fronted by mentally challengeds drafted in from down south.

 

[Geno]

What part don’t you understand here?

If there’s no overinflated tax bill in the first place then there’s no pressure on Murray to sell to the first con man that comes along.

Therefore whyte doesn’t buy the club to not pay the tax on thus we don’t go into administration.

1. Murray was being chased for tax against all his companies, RFC being one of them, which had the biggest tax liability according to HRMC.

2. He sold RFC to Whyte, along with contingent tax liabilities.

3. Whyte failed to pay tax and, if I remember correctly, NI contributions and subsequently applied for a CVA which was rejected.

Whyte was a f*ckin shyster - that is not in dispute.
However, Murray was under pressure from HRMC and wanted out to protect the rest of his empire.

 

[Grigo Yossarian]

I had shares too. I’ve got new ones to replace them

 

[LOL 133]

How can you be so bad at your job that you make a £50 million error.

Absolutely stinks.

At one point they were claiming we owed £134 million.

 

[monkey magic]

I think folk are jumping the gun a wee bit, and naturally so after these shocking revelations. Firstly, HMRC need to publicly accept responsibility for their catastrophic mistakes and apologise. Next, the individuals at HMRC who assessed this grossly inflated and incorrect tax bill should be named, shamed, then sacked. No stone must remain unturned, however, in discovering who at HMRC was breaching Data Protection regulations when private and confidential information regarding our club was repeatedly leaked into the public domain.

 

[mccoist__355]

Forgive my ignorance, but when all is said and done, can the Oldco come back?

Why would we want an empty corporate shell to "come back"?

 

[OrigTommy]

The, apparently miscalculated, EBT bill was used to block a CVA.

And by the way you can sue HMRC.

Who can sue them though Tags?

Technically the Newco doesn't have a relationship with the Oldco as we're a different company.

From what i can see, only Murray and Whyte(as previous owners of the oldco) and Green (as, i believe) current owner of Oldco, could have a claim. And i have zero interest in these guys making money from this situation.

 

[Kilpatricknick]

If this is as horrific as it sounds I hope we push for a public enquiry. No hiding place for the suspects then...whos' that bear friendly MP again?

 

[DazRFC94]

Should be sleeping by now for work tomorrow but instead I’m wide awake. Reading the article over and over, all the chat on Twitter and on here.

Don’t know whether to be angry or happy that this has finally been admitted. Probably a combination of both.

Entire thing is an absolute disgrace.

 

[El Jock Grande Sabia]

Mistake my fucking arse.
It was a deliberate, measured conspiracy to %^*& us over, with co-operation between mentally challengeds at the bank and HMRC and with the full support of their rabble rousers in the media and sympathisers within other key clubs, and all at a time when the SPL and the SFA were fronted by mentally challengeds drafted in from down south.

Nailed to the floor????