Tax Officials Blamed For Rangers Downfall – HMRC Mistake Wipes Millions From Ibrox Bill (The Times)

TimzRFudz said:
A point lost on many people mate.
Was practically the first thing they did after smashing %^*& out of us.

For all the chaos of the time, I firmly believe not much of what happened wasn’t deliberate.
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As I’ve posted earlier in the thread, this myth - and that’s what it is - keeps getting repeated. It has no basis.

The SPL took over the SFL and then re-branded itself as the SPFL. The company number for the SPFL is the same number used for the SPL. They are one and the same.

Check out the link and scroll down to ‘previous company names’:

THE SCOTTISH PROFESSIONAL FOOTBALL LEAGUE LIMITED overview - Find and update company information - GOV.UK

THE SCOTTISH PROFESSIONAL FOOTBALL LEAGUE LIMITED - Free company information from Companies House including registered office address, filing history, accounts, annual return, officers, charges, business activity
beta.companieshouse.gov.uk beta.companieshouse.gov.uk
 
JW1988 said:
Ultimately, what does this mean for us?
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I would love to be able to sue them for reputational damage , loss of potential earnings etc and get the two companies merged. But I doubt that would be possible and would possibly open us up to a claim by Whyte.
I expect what will happen will be BDO might sue and the cash will sit with them for ever.
 
deedle said:
Absolutely.


In wider terms, though, there is surely something wrong when HMRC deliberately chases a company into liquidation to prove some kind of point when it would have received (much) more tax revenue by keeping the company alive.

The other angle to this that seems to be ignored is that Lloyds (only kept afloat by taxpayers' money, remember) consciously gave ownership of Rangers to someone they knew was going to take the club into administration, thereby stiffing HMRC and minority shareholders. Just how ethical is that?

The whole episode has shown that the law effectively gives carte blanche to white-collar cowboys.
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Absolutely

Welcome to class consciousness :)
 
Ambiorix said:
How the fúck were our own accountants not pointing out that our tax bill was 25x bigger than it should have been?
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They probably were but the overwhelming noise from the press and mouth pieces with platforms would be drowning them out, doesn’t matter how loud you shout if no one is prepared to listen.
 
Nothing will happen financially but I’d love to see the club sue HMRC for revenues lost.

As for the cabal within hmrc, Scottish football and whatever their shadows are lurking in. I’d love to see them all exposed and brought to a court, from those who peddled the lies to bloggers, to the cunts at the top that never investigated leaks. Stop at nothing and expose every single rha!
 
Klos the Boss said:
Financially probably nothing, but it highlights again, just how much we were fkn shafted and the whole affair could and should have been avoided
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Agreed.
Murray is ultimately still to blame for this whole disastrous episode with his ultra high risk tax gamble.
However this revelation from HMRC shows we were shafted by them as well, the huge tax bill put off anyone from buying us, other than Whyte who always had the intention to do what he did to avoid the bill.

thank feck we are now on a sound footing again with good guys in charge but that entire period will forever leave an extremely bitter taste for as long as I live.
 
This is unbelievable. I don’t know what to think. Angry at HMRC for sure. Sad for those who lost their jobs. Sad for the bears we lost during the years of pain, who died with their beloved club in the doldrums. Angry at the administrators and lawyers who failed to see through this at the time. Angry at the other clubs who jumped on the HMRC lies with relish to punish Rangers and stop us competing for years. So, anger is the primary emotion.

A mistaken stroke of a HMRC pen had a huge impact on our club and on people’s’ lives. It’s utterly unacceptable. HMRC went after Rangers big style, we need to know why and we need to seek justice. But I have no idea how and have no idea what we can do about it. Which makes me more angry. This whole saga is an utter disgrace.
 
Its not going to make a blind bit of difference at the end of the day, we all knew we were being attacked and were wronged in the public eye. Years of pain deserve compensation and apologies but we won't be getting one anytime soon.
 
Absolutely raging at this news. Some say it's not negative news for us, and they're right in terms of it not being another admin scenario, but it's a hard one to take any positivity from on the realisation we've gone through hell for the sake of a mistake by HMRC.

I know I'm not the only one thinking like this but, after being laughed at, mocked and battered from pillar to post from every angle for years, I have a feeling this still won't be a good thing for us. There's always another twist in the plot that usually means we end up getting screwed again whilst those responsible reap the benefits or get away with it.

Hope I'm wrong, I really do, but everything that's happened up to this point just makes me think we'll never see any form of justice or retribution for what's happened to us.
 
deedle said:
Why didn’t Murray stop using EBTs and pay off the ‘manageable’ debt in 2008 when HMRC began investigating?

It hasn’t changed my views on Murray - he could have afforded to pay the bill from his own savings.
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His enormous ego wouldn’t allow this, and he was never much of a fan of paying for anything with actual cash, especially his own.
 
Ambiorix said:
How the fúck were our own accountants not pointing out that our tax bill was 25x bigger than it should have been?
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Tbf to Murray(may he burn in hell) that was the point he was arguing that the amounts were incorrect that hmrc were demanding.

The offer he made to hmrc was on line if I remember correctly with what arsenal paid in indie tax.

That's really where it could bite hmrc as in a court they will have to prove why they treated rangers differently to the epl clubs of which most of them settled for much less than we were getting hit with.

This is the bit that stinks there's two thoughts to it one that hmrc thought they were more likely to win a trial verdict through Scottish courts or someone wanted rangers as the target.
 
Just woke up to this - fucking hell. Initial thoughts -

King lost circa 20m during the oldco debacle - surely he will be able to recoup that? There goes your 11m shortfall mentally challengeds

The most lasting (ie ongoing) damage from the whole affair was Ashley. Is this a route to nullify contracts signed by spivs who shouldn’t have been there in the first place?

Just watched the BBC Scotland news there - surprise, surprise, no mention. These bastards will also be implicated. The reporting at the time was (on the face of it) forensic yet they never noticed anything remiss in the HRMC‘s aggressive behaviour. Ditto the SFA.

The upcoming AGM will be unmissable.
 

Companies Act 2006

An Act to reform company law and restate the greater part of the enactments relating to companies; to make other provision relating to companies and other forms of business organisation; to make provision about directors' disqualification, business names, auditors and actuaries; to amend Part 9...
www.legislation.gov.uk www.legislation.gov.uk

Is "Administrative Restoration" a viable option here??

Imagine the meltdown if we brought back the Oldco as the umbrella company and won 55.
 
If only we had a fighting fund say, to take HMRC to court if this story is true. All those shareholders, bond holders etc would be due monies. Lost revenue for the club as clearly we have been wrongly been cited for debt we potentially didn't owe. Sue HMRC and let's see what happens. Nothing ventured and all that.
 
Blue Goose said:
If only we had a fighting fund say, to take HMRC to court if this story is true. All those shareholders, bond holders etc would be due monies. Lost revenue for the club as clearly we have been wrongly been cited for debt we potentially didn't owe. Sue HMRC and let's see what happens. Nothing ventured and all that.
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You cant sue the HMRC mate
 
Just how can our advisors at the time, ours used in the sense of Rangers, have got it so wrong. We’re talking of a swing of up to potentially £50M. Is that down to interpretation of the tax calculation and if so, surely various models were used to calculate potential outcomes. Or did we just roll over and say, aye ok it’s probably £70M. Unless our own appointed administrators didn’t want to know there was a saving...
 
monkey magic said:
If this was the peasants who were deliberately fooked over like we were by HMRC, there would be an emergency debate at Holyrood with MSP's recalled and demands for heads to roll and jail time for those involved if proven that acts were deliberately made to destroy their club. A full and independent public inquiry would also be a given. The fog is slowly clearing now to this entire HMRC debacle, that much is true.
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Has the justice secretary spoke about this
 
BothwellBear said:
Just how can our advisors at the time, ours used in the sense of Rangers, have got it so wrong. We’re talking of a swing of up to potentially £50M. Ha that down to interpretation of the tax calculation and if so, surely various models were used.
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Try a swing of 114 million mate they tried to hit is with a bill of £134 million

I am spewing raging and very angry
 
What a very odd thread.
On a story that HMRC may have overcharged Rangers in 2012 for tax.
The first few pages dismiss the story without considering it at all.
This tax case relates to the previous board and not to Dave King’s Rangers at all.
I say move on and let the old board claim back any over charged tax for our previous creditors
 
JD1872 said:
Surely this is something the clubs lawyers should have been all over right from the start, seems like a very basic error.

Obsessed terriers in high places is clearly what has happened here
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IF HMRC say they are going to bill you £134 million then I would think you would assume that’s the bill your going to have to pay? I can fight it but it’s a debt lingering over you regardless and it never should have been.
 
Whilst there are major shareholders who have lost there are also innumerable ordinary people who have lost significant sums of their money through all of this. What recourse do they have with HMRC?
 
ibrox1975 said:
What a very odd thread.
On a story that HMRC may have overcharged Rangers in 2012 for tax.
The first few pages dismiss the story without considering it at all.
This tax case relates to the previous board and not to Dave King’s Rangers at all.
I say move on and let the old board claim back any over charged tax for our previous creditors
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Your at it. You have to be.
 
ChristchurchBear said:
Try a swing of 114 million mate they tried to hit is with a bill of £134 million

I am spewing raging and very angry
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what was the big tax bill in full that they sought? There’s suggestions the savings could be up to £50M so what figure are we talking overall and if that potential £50M was realised.

remember this list of creditors if they got a pay day now includes ticketus, HMRC for tax and non payment of NI plus penalty interest
 
ibrox1975 said:
What a very odd thread.
On a story that HMRC may have overcharged Rangers in 2012 for tax.
The first few pages dismiss the story without considering it at all.
This tax case relates to the previous board and not to Dave King’s Rangers at all.
I say move on and let the old board claim back any over charged tax for our previous creditors
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It’s because initially it was reported that a huge Hmrc story was about to break, the article was added later
 
Dougie Gray said:
Shareholders must surely have legal recourse here?
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They’d just get a nominal payout from any surplus as a creditor. Ticketus, HMRC and ironically, Dave King, are some of the largest.
It would really be most helpful if the latest BDO report could be linked showing funds held alongside a list of creditors with sums assigned.
 
I'm angry about this yes. I'm also angry though as I absolutely can't be fűcked with it as I don't have a clue what it means and am glad to be getting back to talking football again.
 
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