Expanding Ibrox.

This is not happening anytime in the future. Much bigger priorities currently. And that’s without considering the cost of such a idea.
 
frankbear said:
Should have applied to the EPL when we got thrown down the leagues, would have been competing in the championship by this time and left this back water of a country to fester.
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Do you have any reason to believe that the EPL wanted to allow any Scottish team into their league.
 
derek145 said:
Yes as far as I can recall. As I said I can't find anything online to confirm this but got a mate who says he remembers the same. Not conclusive I know but it shows I didn't dream it up.
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Remember this too bud. Not sure if it was for tier on Govan or just to fill in corners but there was mention of future proofing the new works.
 
Wasn't the option of creating a bar 72 like area around Broomloan and Copland thrown out as an idea? Wouldn't be vast numbers added but it's better than nothing
 
Is it possible to add say 3 rows of seating to the front of the Club Deck just like Bar 72 or even change the angle of the Copland and Broomloan stands to add rows at the back?
 
Tom Forsyth's stud said:
Is it possible to add say 3 rows of seating to the front of the Club Deck just like Bar 72 or even change the angle of the Copland and Broomloan stands to add rows at the back?
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no .

the front of the club deck is a tight enough view. at present you can just see the near side line .

changing the angle of the Copland and broomloan would be very expensive for the slight increase .

I think Ibrox has suffered from small increases here and there when what is needed is a larger increase .

it’s cost prohibitive at the moment but I’d hope we might be in a position to change that in the future .
 
derek145 said:
Rangers Pools used to be massive but the whole Pools culture has long since gone, personally I think we should be selling Scratch Cards and an online Lottery
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I can’t believe the club are still attempting to make money on “pools” in this day and age . My nana used to do it but nobody these days under the age of 40 even knows what it is .

We are still on the comeback trail but there are so many areas we need to modernise and get the club up to speed
 
I understand as quoted by others already that the board have a full feasibility study ongoing to look at options to fit more seats in.

Those who say finances will prevent any major spend are incorrect. A project where its return generated sufficient money to pay the borrowing costs is quite feasible and could be financed.

Again as stated elsewhere the Govan is meant to be prepared for an extra “Clubdeck” tier. Given the incredible popularity of Bar72 I think a genuine premium offering in the new tier could be scoped out, with tickets priced similarly to Bar 72.

The argument that our stadium is big enough for the SPL is not true anymore when getting tickets as a non season ticket holders for regular games is a nightmare.

The difficulty in getting into games is a problem which if allowed to continue will result in casual fans drifting away.
 
IndianaRanger said:
This is not happening anytime in the future. Much bigger priorities currently. And that’s without considering the cost of such a idea.
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I think you might be wrong mate for 2 reasons:

1. A properly constructed expansion project could be self funding

2. In the medium to long term we need to expand the stadium to help increase revenue flows
 
choppy72 said:
I understand as quoted by others already that the board have a full feasibility study ongoing to look at options to fit more seats in.

Those who say finances will prevent any major spend are incorrect. A project where its return generated sufficient money to pay the borrowing costs is quite feasible and could be financed.

Again as stated elsewhere the Govan is meant to be prepared for an extra “Clubdeck” tier. Given the incredible popularity of Bar72 I think a genuine premium offering in the new tier could be scoped out, with tickets priced similarly to Bar 72.

The argument that our stadium is big enough for the SPL is not true anymore when getting tickets as a non season ticket holders for regular games is a nightmare.

The difficulty in getting into games is a problem which if allowed to continue will result in casual fans drifting away.
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Another tier on top of the govan for premium prices isn’t feasable at all . It would be far too high up , nobody is going to pay premium pricing for a birds eye view like that . You need binoculars as it is just now from the back row of the govan rear or club deck . A total non starter .
 
weevlad said:
Not going to happen significantly in our lifetime
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Maybe most folk on this forum's lifetime, but as someone who is in my very late teens, something has and will need to be done in my lifetime, for example by the time I'm 40 the Sandy Jardine, Copland and Broomloan stands will be closing in on 60 years old. How long were they built to last for? They look outdated even now.
 
HenningBerg said:
Another tier on top of the govan for premium prices isn’t feasable at all . It would be far too high up , nobody is going to pay premium pricing for a birds eye view like that . You need binoculars as it is just now from the back row of the govan rear or club deck . A total non starter .
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Disagree. I have been in the Club Deck once, at the very back row for the Aberdeen thrashing earlier on this season and found the view to be no where near as bad as folk said it would be or how it looked on pictures. I'm more of a guy who likes being down Broomloan & Govan Fronts but if it meant I could get myself a long awaited season ticket then I would gladly take it.
 
GummyBear said:
Disagree. I have been in the Club Deck once, at the very back row for the Aberdeen thrashing earlier on this season and found the view to be no where near as bad as folk said it would be or how it looked on pictures. I'm more of a guy who likes being down Broomloan & Govan Fronts but if it meant I could get myself a long awaited season ticket then I would gladly take it.
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But would you pay £1200 is the point ? It’s not going to be an ordinary section , it’s premium .
 
HenningBerg said:
Another tier on top of the govan for premium prices isn’t feasable at all . It would be far too high up , nobody is going to pay premium pricing for a birds eye view like that . You need binoculars as it is just now from the back row of the govan rear or club deck . A total non starter .
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Is it mate?

I’m desperate for 2 tickets together and would def pay a premium price for a Clubdeck like view - I love the Clubdeck.
 
As much as I’d love to see the screens replaced with seating for a continuous two tier sweep right around three quarters of the ground, the structural problems mean a cost that is unlikely to be undertaken.

Increasing the capacity will obviously generate greater revenue, but I think King suggested the most achievable options are only likely to add a couple of thousand more seats anyway making you question whether it’s worth the undertaking.

I’ll be very surprised if this is something that happens in the next decade.
 
HenningBerg said:
But would you pay £1200 is the point ? It’s not going to be an ordinary section , it’s premium .
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The thing is, whilst he might not pay that amount (for example), there are existing season ticket who would be interested in moving to a premium area. That would free up their existing tickets.

I suggested we scope the project with proper sales research.
 
Hopefully the questions can be raised during the imminent AGM. I understand the club can’t say anything if there isn’t anything concrete to commit to, but hopefully the board will actually be in a position to tell us what the possibilities are or if there are a few possibilities, perhaps putting it to a vote in a similar fashion that was adopted for the greatest ever rangers team back in the day?
 
choppy72 said:
I think you might be wrong mate for 2 reasons:

1. A properly constructed expansion project could be self funding

2. In the medium to long term we need to expand the stadium to help increase revenue flows
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I am interested in the concept of it being "self-funding". How do you see that working.
 
choppy72 said:
The thing is, whilst he might not pay that amount (for example), there are existing season ticket who would be interested in moving to a premium area. That would free up their existing tickets.

I suggested we scope the project with proper sales research.
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I’m not against it mate , for a start the other options like digging into the water table sound horrendous . It could well be that an exclusive tier on top of the govan is the way to go .

I just can’t see it attracting bar72 prices though given the difference in view ? As you say perhaps the positive sell would be say an exclusive 4000 tier on top of the govan with padded seats , a cash bar , and a ticket for every game including Europe for around £900 would be attractive still and while not offering the view of bar72 would still sell .

Would take the capacity to around 55,000 which I would suggest perfect for us . Would also bring in £4 million per year on top of current ST figure .
 
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HandsomeHead said:
As much as I’d love to see the screens replaced with seating for a continuous two tier sweep right around three quarters of the ground, the structural problems mean a cost that is unlikely to be undertaken.

Increasing the capacity will obviously generate greater revenue, but I think King suggested the most achievable options are only likely to add a couple of thousand more seats anyway making you question whether it’s worth the undertaking.

I’ll be very surprised if this is something that happens in the next decade.
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I think and hope you’re incorrect about it not happening in the next decade.

Getting more people into Ibrox should be key to all our business operations.

I know of lads from the South that used to go on a casual basis to a few games a season who can’t get tickets now with enough notice to arrange travel.

It’s also really hard to get tickets for youngsters coming off age to go week in week out.

We need to get more ticket availability fir these reasons.

But more importantly more seats = more revenue and that’s the bit that needs focus. Closing the funding gap that we’ve currently got.
 
HenningBerg said:
I’m not against it mate , for a start the other options like digging into the water table sound horrendous . It could well be that an exclusive tier on top of the govan is the way to go .

I just can’t see it attracting bar72 prices though given the difference in view ? As you say perhaps the positive sell would be say an exclusive 4000 tier on top of the govan with padded seats , a cash bar , and a ticket for every game including Europe for around £900 would be attractive still and while not offering the view of bar72 would still sell .

Would take the capacity to around 55,000 which I would suggest perfect for us .
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Yes - that’s pretty much my view summed up.
 
LoganBear said:
Does he not just mean that over say a 5, 10 or 15 year period it will pay for itself through increased revenue.
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say an exclusive top tier on top of the govan with padded heated seats cost £12 million to install .

as a premium area at £950 per ticket , it would pay for itself within 3 seasons .
 
LoganBear said:
Does he not just mean that over say a 5, 10 or 15 year period it will pay for itself through increased revenue.
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Yes.

I mean that a capital project like this, is structured properly, should generate enough income annually to pay off the borrowing for the construction costs over a defined period.

It could be ring fenced from the rest of the clubs financial operations with no impact on them. A self funding, stand alone financial project.

For what it’s worth, I’d like to see a Govan Exec deck with a capacity of circa 4,000 with a joining fee of maybe £1,000 - front loading funding by £4m - looked at. Annual ticket cost of circa £900 per ticket.

Benefits are actually pretty low cost to actually supply e.g. a padded seat isn’t that much more expensive than a plastic one.
 
choppy72 said:
Yes.

I mean that a capital project like this, is structured properly, should generate enough income annually to pay off the borrowing for the construction costs over a defined period.

It could be ring fenced from the rest of the clubs financial operations with no impact on them. A self funding, stand alone financial project.

For what it’s worth, I’d like to see a Govan Exec deck with a capacity of circa 4,000 with a joining fee of maybe £1,000 - front loading funding by £4m - looked at. Annual ticket cost of circa £900 per ticket.

Benefits are actually pretty low cost to actually supply e.g. a padded seat isn’t that much more expensive than a plastic one.
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Ive actually come around to your idea the more I’ve thought about it . I have some concerns about the view but that could be mitigated by clever engineering of the angle of the tier .
 
HenningBerg said:
Ive actually come around to your idea the more I’ve thought about it . I have some concerns about the view but that could be mitigated by clever engineering of the angle of the tier .
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I think the years of abuse, tax issues and admin etc have worn us all down and (understandably) made us all super cautious.

But what has also happened is the latent demand to see Rangers has been unleashed. As a non season ticket holder getting into games with seats close together with my teenage lad, is a game by game significant challenge.

If he was younger and had to be beside me, it would be even worse.

The thing is this demand won’t last forever if we don’t meet it, that’s why getting more ticket availability soon is vital.

It might be politically incorrect to say this but an exec tier would hopefully price out the neds and bams which I think would also be an attraction for a lot of people.

Now we’re back and chasing trophies again let’s announce the clubs return to normality with a properly thought out and financed big capacity increasing project.

Can you imagine the reaction from the “admin beckons again” squad when they read we’re spending 10s of millions on the best facilities in Scotland?
 
choppy72 said:
Yes.

I mean that a capital project like this, is structured properly, should generate enough income annually to pay off the borrowing for the construction costs over a defined period.

It could be ring fenced from the rest of the clubs financial operations with no impact on them. A self funding, stand alone financial project.

For what it’s worth, I’d like to see a Govan Exec deck with a capacity of circa 4,000 with a joining fee of maybe £1,000 - front loading funding by £4m - looked at. Annual ticket cost of circa £900 per ticket.

Benefits are actually pretty low cost to actually supply e.g. a padded seat isn’t that much more expensive than a plastic one.
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Thanks, that makes sense. As I understand you the additional income would pay for the expenditure.

Would the problem not be getting the capital together for the initial project, would you envisage that as borrowing. Or perhaps a share issue to raise the funds.
 
choppy72 said:
I think and hope you’re incorrect about it not happening in the next decade.

Getting more people into Ibrox should be key to all our business operations.

I know of lads from the South that used to go on a casual basis to a few games a season who can’t get tickets now with enough notice to arrange travel.

It’s also really hard to get tickets for youngsters coming off age to go week in week out.

We need to get more ticket availability fir these reasons.

But more importantly more seats = more revenue and that’s the bit that needs focus. Closing the funding gap that we’ve currently got.
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The economic benefits are clear, but King himself said he felt any increase would be in “the low thousands”. I took from that maybe 2, 3000 more at best.

Currently we’re still running at a loss and I’d imagine it’ll need a good few years of stability before we’ve improved our credit sufficiently to secure the money needed to undertake such a venture.

With Brexit set to impact on the economy I don’t see a big job like this being financially viable until the end of the 2020s at the earliest.
 
Greebo said:
Thanks, that makes sense. As I understand you the additional income would pay for the expenditure.

Would the problem not be getting the capital together for the initial project, would you envisage that as borrowing. Or perhaps a share issue to raise the funds.
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I’d suggest it needs scoped and options looked at.

One idea would be a joining fee of £1,000 to get access to the Exec Deck - this could raise around £4m if capacity was 4,000.

But “Asset Finance” is quite common in business, where you borrow to fund the purchase of a specific asset. I’m sure a model of that nature could be looked at here.

Even a Ticketus Type venture, where we sign away the season ticket cash from the new tier to a finance house for x number of years in return for an up front payment.

I guess a share issue would be an option, but not sure it would be the preference.
 
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HandsomeHead said:
The economic benefits are clear, but King himself said he felt any increase would be in “the low thousands”. I took from that maybe 2, 3000 more at best.

Currently we’re still running at a loss and I’d imagine it’ll need a good few years of stability before we’ve improved our credit sufficiently to secure the money needed to undertake such a venture.

With Brexit set to impact on the economy I don’t see a big job like this being financially viable until the end of the 2020s at the earliest.
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You may be right.

But I’m not convinced mate. If we could raise a deposit of £2-4m for the works financing the rest should be straightforward.

This would be a separate project from our day to day finances and could be financially engineered as such.
 
Calvinist said:
£12 million ?

the club deck cost double that over 20years ago
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Scoping the project is what’s needed.

I’ve no idea on costs, but would assume the Govan would be cheaper than the Clubdeck on top of an old listed building.

Plus this discussion started partly as some of us recall that the Govan steelwork is meant to be prepped for another tier at the time of the corners being filled in.
 
Calvinist said:
£12 million ?

the club deck cost double that over 20years ago
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This wouldn’t be anywhere near as much work as the club deck was . Remember the club deck meant work on a listed building, putting the glass staircases in etc .

This would be Work on a relatively modern purpose built stand . Cheaper than what you’d think .
 
choppy72 said:
Scoping the project is what’s needed.

I’ve no idea on costs, but would assume the Govan would be cheaper than the Clubdeck on top of an old listed building.

Plus this discussion started partly as some of us recall that the Govan steelwork is meant to be prepped for another tier at the time of the corners being filled in.
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don’t get me wrong , I want Ibrox expanded . Imo our stadium is far too small and we need it updated .

we need to be realistic with costings , affordability and feasibility . I’m not sure when the screens went in the steelwork was done . According to the prospectus and a shareholders meeting , it was a straight choice between the screens or seating in the corners .

the screens was the cheaper easier choice and I doubt Murray (who made an arse of the stadium) would do the work in the corners in case we opted to seat it in the future .

a stand on the govan would be a massive undertaking , we might be cheaper bull dozing the 3 stands .

i suspect we will probably continue with small increases here and there
 
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