Gerrards conract lets have your thoughts bears

JMCK said:
There is a contradiction in your post here and the one I replied to initially. A dull and pragmatic manager wouldn't have done it either; this post here isn't suggesting pragmatism at all, and the very fact you have no idea who that would be isn't entirely noble either, rather it's because such a person doesn't exist. Gerrard could end up a nearly man, twice over, but he has tried his best since he arrived; I don't think there's any guarantee whatsover that anyone else could have done any better in the current circumstances.
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Nonsense. You can't know that for sure. In all honesty, neither can I. As justification for turning our backs on the characteristics we thought were important until Gerrard was linked it became common on here to suggest that all managerial appointments are gambles. I'd suggest that's probably true, but what's equally true is that some appointments are bigger gambles than others. When you say "I don't think there's any guarantee whatsover that anyone else could have done any better in the current circumstances", do you mean just amongst prospective managers, or just any manager? Did you say the same when PLG was leading us to another defeat? Or when Murty was being outclassed by Dundee? When Celtic or Progres beat Pedro's team? Did you watch today's game and think, ach, no one else would be able to bring us victory against St Johnstone?

You don't think a manager with the characteristics required to take Rangers forward to the next step - and I think it's important to be clear here - exist anywhere in Scottish, British, European or world football. I think that's quite staggering, and it's that lack of vision, intelligence and knowledge from the board which has ultimately led us to where we are in the league, ie, no close to winning the thing. Thankfully, neither of us work for the board.
 
Blue Dunk said:
think back to before he arrived, the strides forward since Gerrard arrived are massive, we are far from being a great team but are moving in the right direction - he needs time and money from the board - and we need to give him the time to make his vision work
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He has brought tens of millions into the club from europe alone. Reestablished our name in Europe. Played the scum of the park 5 times when we were regularly getting battered by them. All in less than 2 years. Talk of getting rid of him just yet is crazy.
 
Europe has been outstanding.

Celtic games have been excellent, we lost some and that can happen.

The refereeing particularly in the last two months has been unbelievable.

Our form up until Tynecastle was outstanding with a loss and two draws.

However we don't need a war chest to beat the other teams. In games that we have won lately it's either been individual brilliance, a counter attack or a set piece. It's been a while since we gave a team a doing, never mind goals it doesn't even look like we were going to score lately. I don't know about some of you but every time it's 0-0 at half time after doing nothing I don't have a lot of confidence that we'll win it in the second half.

Today it looked like the usual until we changed formation and things became comfortable. The third goal was on the way, we go back to the usual and we draw.

I usually hate this saying but today must be a lesson learned. The league is gone, I want to see more of what we saw for 35 minutes for the remainder of the season. If we continue with the usual tactics and not have a plan b, and continue to drop points in games we can easily win, then I'll have some serious doubts about moving forward. We could end up on a loop of starting the league extremely well and continually faltering in the second half of the season.
 
BobbyShearer55-65 said:
If we end the season trophyless, I reckon he'll be away of his own accord.

He's a born winner and he's not going to let this shower of lightweights permanently damage his reputation.
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Those lightweights that are predominantly his signings are they not?

But on the flipside what alternative do we have? He is / was an experiment and based on league points earned he has improved since last season has he not? Yes we have been horrendous since the winter break and he and the coaching team needs to take that on the chin, but let's get realistic if we sack him or he walks who are we actually going to replace him with?

All you see on here is the problems being raised never a solution, the board gets slagged left right and centre, they have the same dilemma as us they have backed the horse and as I see it they need to continue backing at as who's the next alternative?
 
You think he would stick around for another couple of years with nothing won? Each trophy he loses, the less his chances are of getting a big job again.
 
The Lone Sniper said:
We have a limited budget, we're a basket case of a c!ub (many would argue) and we're up against our bitterest rivals who have double our budget - again I'll ask for a better option than Garrard?
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And again I'll tell you that I've no idea. Knowing exactly who'd you replace the current manager with (particularly when I've not suggested we should sack him) is not a prerequisite for suggesting it was the wrong call.
 
ClockworkOrange said:
Nonsense. You can't know that for sure. In all honesty, neither can I. As justification for turning our backs on the characteristics we thought were important until Gerrard was linked it became common on here to suggest that all managerial appointments are gambles. I'd suggest that's probably true, but what's equally true is that some appointments are bigger gambles than others. When you say "I don't think there's any guarantee whatsover that anyone else could have done any better in the current circumstances", do you mean just amongst prospective managers, or just any manager? Did you say the same when PLG was leading us to another defeat? Or when Murty was being outclassed by Dundee? When Celtic or Progres beat Pedro's team? Did you watch today's game and think, ach, no one else would be able to bring us victory against St Johnstone?

You don't think a manager with the characteristics required to take Rangers forward to the next step - and I think it's important to be clear here - exist anywhere in Scottish, British, European or world football. I think that's quite staggering, and it's that lack of vision, intelligence and knowledge from the board which has ultimately led us to where we are in the league, ie, no close to winning the thing. Thankfully, neither of us work for the board.
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You've taken me right out of context, thanks. I said what I said in light of when Gerrard took over; this club is in and has been in a very peculiar situation, and would have been no easy task for anyone. Interesting, though, that your "vision" doesn't extend itself to identifying who the alternative would have been.
 
Think about this Bears would Derek the shite bag have Rangers were we are today or the results in Europe we have had the last 2 seasons we will get there with the gaffer
 
I'm behind him still. My 2 sons and I have had some great times at Ibrox after years of dug shit. For that I'm willing to give him the chance to fix it.
 
Even if we do sneak by Hearts this shower and a clueless manager as it stand haven’t the desire or bottle to take the SC from the mentally challengeds.
 
dooman42 said:
Think about this Bears would Derek the shite bag have Rangers were we are today or the results in Europe we have had the last 2 seasons we will get there with the gaffer
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I dont think we will, under Gerrard we wont win any titles. He's no idea domestically what he's doing.
 
Gerrard has taken us forward and improved us, were probably looking at Celtic winning the league again.
Has he taken us forward enough?
There's an argument that he hasnt.
But, I think it Gerrard if left it would be a one step forward, two steps back.
 
JMCK said:
You've taken me right out of context, thanks. I said what I said in light of when Gerrard took over; this club is in and has been in a very peculiar situation, and would have been no easy task for anyone. Interesting, though, that your "vision" doesn't extend itself to identifying who the alternative would have been.
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Of course it wouldn't have been an easy task for anyone (which is you moving the goalposts from your previous idea), so can you imagine how much harder it would have been for a guy with no experience of management?

I'll also tell you again - and perhaps you'll ignore the repeated questions again, I don't know - knowing who could fill the position is not a prerequisite requirement for criticising or questioning the appointment in the first place. Perhaps you should tell posters of that policy in the threads on Kent, Katic, Polster, etc - that you can't possibly criticise or question without providing alternatives. Sounds...well, silly, doesn't it?
 
At the end of the day it's all about winning trophies .we should not have extended his contract until he had won something.posters go on about progress under gerrard.at this moment we haven,t progressed we have regressed and have been since January..
 
If we get rid of Gerrard it will be another two years rebuilding.

If any manager made the progress SG has made at any other club then he is being praised to the high heavens. At Rangers however, you success is measured than being better than Celtic.
 
ClockworkOrange said:
Of course it wouldn't have been an easy task for anyone (which is you moving the goalposts from your previous idea), so can you imagine how much harder it would have been for a guy with no experience of management?

I'll also tell you again - and perhaps you'll ignore the repeated questions again, I don't know - knowing who could fill the position is not a prerequisite requirement for criticising or questioning the appointment in the first place. Perhaps you should tell posters of that policy in the threads on Kent, Katic, Polster, etc - that you can't possibly criticise or question without providing alternatives. Sounds...well, silly, doesn't it?
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I don't understand your last point at all, especially when I've been critical of Kent today as well. To get get back your earlier point, there is no guarantees with experience; you have offered no alternative to Gerrard whatsoever. I think if I had your opinion I'd have alternative. I'm not sure it's as hard to come up with a name as you suggest; you honestly had no one in particular in mind from the day Gerrard got appointed till now?
 
midlandbear said:
Nonsense. Our board are not remotely close to even discussing his situation. He will get at least another year and rightly so.

He has given us improvement year on year. We are in the knockout stages of a tournament we didn’t even expect to qualify for last year. The reason the league is beyond is that they have dropped only 8 points all season. They are having an exceptional season and we are currently performing better points wise than some previous rangers teams who actually won the league.
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Think your wrong mate .personally think that he will get another season .if we are still trophie less then .I think he will be gone.maybe sooner the way things are going.
You may be correct that he isn,t on a shugly peg at this moment.but that can change very quickly.
 
mcbeath1872 said:
Setting league titles aside, he knows plenty about winning and what it takes.

2 x FA Cup winner.
3 x League Cup winner.
1 x Champions League winner.
1 x UEFA Cup winner.
1 x UEFA Super Cup winner.
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As a player yes .but there is a big difference between being a player than being a manager and so far as a manager he has won nothing.at this moment or should I say since January at least he Doesn,t seem to know about winning as a manager.
 
Prestwick_ Bear said:
Motivation is key, also instilling a winning team ethic is paramount.

We pumped the Scum with a similar team. Is SG needing a wee hand from Walter or the like in this?

I think we need a baw booter in the dressing room, hate having a go at the gaffer but I think this is what's needed at the moment. IMO.
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he needs help from someone who knows Scottish football
 
Lets be honest - if the name wasnt Gerrard he would be out the door by now. he needs to start learning that scottish football isnt the EPL or Europe and he needs to play to our strengths.
 
I dont see many other options other than to back our manager. Of course he has us mystified at times but too many players have let him and us down
 
SG needs to succeed at Rangers - otherwise he has no chance of managing Liverpool, unfortunatley he is perservering with a formation that doesnt work and with players who arent performing.
 
JMCK said:
I don't understand your last point at all, especially when I've been critical of Kent today as well.

To get get back your earlier point, there is no guarantees with experience; you have offered no alternative to Gerrard whatsoever. I think if I had your opinion I'd have alternative. I'm not sure it's as hard to come up with a name as you suggest; you honestly had no one in particular in mind from the day Gerrard got appointed till now?
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You're being deliberately obstinate now, I think, or otherwise just really dense.

You have suggested to me throughout this thread that having an alternative in mind (either at the time or now, even though I haven't suggested sacking him) is necessary in order to criticise or critique the appointment of Gerrard in the first place. I was suggesting that applying that same policy towards players, ie. that you can't suggest that a player isn't particularly good or has the necessary characteristics WITHOUT suggesting who we could sign to replace him shows up your viewpoint for the silly piece of nonsense it is.

There are no guarantees with experience, but more guarantees than someone with fewer experience. That's why Manchester City appointed Guardiola and Liverpool appointed Jurgen Klopp instead of rookie managers with no experience.

Having the attitude I have is not dependent upon having an alternative.

My experience of football outside of Rangers is very, very limited, so no, I didn't/don't.

Since I've answered your question directly, let's see if you'll answer mine: when Murty was leading us to successive defeats against Celtic and Killie, etc, was your criticism of his managerial performance and desire for a manager with different characteristics cognisant upon having an alternative in mind?
 
ClockworkOrange said:
You're being deliberately obstinate now, I think, or otherwise just really dense.

You have suggested to me throughout this thread that having an alternative in mind (either at the time or now, even though I haven't suggested sacking him) is necessary in order to criticise or critique the appointment of Gerrard in the first place. I was suggesting that applying that same policy towards players, ie. that you can't suggest that a player isn't particularly good or has the necessary characteristics WITHOUT suggesting who we could sign to replace him shows up your viewpoint for the silly piece of nonsense it is.

There are no guarantees with experience, but more guarantees than someone with fewer experience. That's why Manchester City appointed Guardiola and Liverpool appointed Jurgen Klopp instead of rookie managers with no experience.

Having the attitude I have is not dependent upon having an alternative.

My experience of football outside of Rangers is very, very limited, so no, I didn't/don't.

Since I've answered your question directly, let's see if you'll answer mine: when Murty was leading us to successive defeats against Celtic and Killie, etc, was your criticism of his managerial performance and desire for a manager with different characteristics cognisant upon having an alternative in mind?
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To your question at the end, of course it did; even now I could have ideas about names, but I won't, because right now is not the time. You were the one that raised the alternative, initially; you were the one who identified the character of the manager who would have been better than Gerrard; you were also the one who painted a cynical picture of the Gerrard appointment. All that and no alternative; really?
 
Bobans27 said:
Same for this bear.

reality is we’ve made massive progress on the pitch. Ultimately Celtic have stepped up a gear too.

winning the league was going to take a massive improvement from us and a drop off from then. We’ve had an improvement, they have dropped off, as a result we are where we are (that and dodgy refs, at least 6 of the 12 points are direct results of officials not doing their job)

the problem, rightly or wrongly, is them going for ten in a row. Tainted or not....
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Stevie G has a 52.7% win ratio, so not a massive improvement, but we have a long way to go before we catch up with them.
They are years ahead scouting wise and £ wise.
It will get sorted but not a quick fix.
My fault with SG is he is loath to make changes and doesn’t know his best starting 11.
He said after the game he was going to shuffle the pack up today but his head overruled him WTF. He wishes he had made the changes he says.
 
JMCK said:
To your question at the end, of course it did; even now I could have ideas about names, but I won't, because right now is not the time. You were the one that raised the alternative, initially; you were the one who identified the character of the manager who would have been better than Gerrard; you were also the one who painted a cynical picture of the Gerrard appointment. All that and no alternative; really?
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Sorry, just to confirm - to have the opinion taken seriously that Murty was shite was dependent upon having an idea in mind for someone to replace him?
 
Gerrard and his team will be here at the start of next season. Can’t see him going anywhere this season
 
ClockworkOrange said:
Not a scooby. Not even the vaguest of ideas. But then again, I would like to think that the possibility of managing a club the size of Rangers, coupled with the illustrious history of luring hot managerial material to the club, would entice a manager with the prerequisite characteristics, and if you don't think that, go and support Hamilton.

There's also a strange implicit suggestion in these questions that 1. We had no choice but to appoint a youth team coach and that 2. You need to have in mind an alternative in order to criticise the appointment we do have. I didn't need to have someone in mind to know that Murty wasn't the right man for us, for example.

My gripe is less with the appointment of Gerrard and more the fact that we appointed a manager with the same profile as the ones who'd failed before him: new to the game, limited experience of football in this country in some cases, never managed a club of this size and stature before and tasked with the difficult job of taking us back to the top of Scottish football.

McCoist, Warburton, McDowall, McCall, Pedro, Murty - none of these guys could manage it. Why did we assume that a guy with the same profile could succeed where they didn't? Because this one had played for Liverpool and England? It's just mental.

The next time we win the league will be with someone who knows management.
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Couldn’t agree more, Gerrard was brought to the club for entirely the wrong reasons especially as you say what went before him.
 
It was obvious that we should have waited to see. Three seasons was enough, and we could have parted company without any money changing hands.

Now it means we're stuck and have to keep going until he resigns or the contract is up.
 
dooman42 said:
Think about this Bears would Derek the shite bag have Rangers were we are today or the results in Europe we have had the last 2 seasons we will get there with the gaffer
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What you mean 12 points behind the filth, losing 5 trophies in a row to that crowd, & blowing the league after Christmas 2 years in a row yip I think even McInnes could have managed that. Btw I am no fan of his thank fck he didn’t get the job but really his record would be as bad as Gerrards domestically.
 
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