James Curran Baxter
Well-Known Member
The absolute state of people on here arguing who is better between Messi and Maradona.
Diego Maradona has died
- Thread starter prenzlauerbear
- Start date
dt17
The Jay Cartwright of FF
That’s a stupid question though because you could turn it round and say ask any Barca fan who was better - 99% would say Messi.
Obviously they hold Maradona in higher regard in Argentina. He won a World Cup and as far as I’m aware a lot of them never really took to Messi since he left Argentina as a boy.
As to your other point - in today’s game Maradona would be lucky to make it as a pro given the strict diet regimes and professionalism required. So that’s a silly point as well.
bilkobear
Well-Known Member
Comparing Maradona to Messi is a bit like comparing a gold watch to ... well, a gold watch.
Both are the supreme talents of their era.
However, Maradona played at a time when pitches were poorer and protection from referees was verging on the non-existent.
Messi has the advantage also of playing in a club side surrounded by the pick of world-class talents assembled for huge money whenever it was required.
However, Messi is also a far more dedicated professional a far more responsible individual and a player who stands out for his relentless consistency at the top level throughout his entire career.
Messi is also a much better finisher than Maradona was.
Yet Maradona remains the more enigmatic of the two, the more mystical and the one who will possibly remain the bigger legend.
I may, of course, be wrong.
Personally, I love them both for what they have given football and the entertainment I have personally been presented by their brilliance.
Both are the supreme talents of their era.
However, Maradona played at a time when pitches were poorer and protection from referees was verging on the non-existent.
Messi has the advantage also of playing in a club side surrounded by the pick of world-class talents assembled for huge money whenever it was required.
However, Messi is also a far more dedicated professional a far more responsible individual and a player who stands out for his relentless consistency at the top level throughout his entire career.
Messi is also a much better finisher than Maradona was.
Yet Maradona remains the more enigmatic of the two, the more mystical and the one who will possibly remain the bigger legend.
I may, of course, be wrong.
Personally, I love them both for what they have given football and the entertainment I have personally been presented by their brilliance.
-ZED-
Well-Known Member
Maradona would be lucky to make it in today’s game, I’ve heard it all now!
gers1978
Well-Known Member
its a true statement. He lacks the dedication required.
bilkobear
Well-Known Member
Maradona was the perfect physical package for his style of football.
His size and shape gave him a low centre of gravity and perfect balance, the strength emanating from his shape gave him enormous power in that important personal space and the burst of acceleration over a short distance that combined with his unparalleled technical skills, made him impossible to defend against even with illegal challenges.
He was like a Subbuteo figure in that he rarely fell over under pressure and he had an innate ability to bounce back to his feet still in control of the football.
Maradona also had the natural game intelligence of a world-class footballer and the passing range of a midfield general that aligned with amazing peripheral vision kept all of the pitch under his command.
He was also as brave as a lion, and that combined with a hunger and determination, made him a leader on the pitch and an inspiring figure to his teammates no matter their age or experience.
Maradona would have been the greatest talent of his time in any era.
I’ll put my tuppence worth in.
DM was in an era defenders could assault you and get away with it,
Touch LM and it’s a foul.
He was an icon at a shit Napoli side who had never won the league.
Nothing against LM but DM is better.
His speed was amazing (not his drugs).
DM was in an era defenders could assault you and get away with it,
Touch LM and it’s a foul.
He was an icon at a shit Napoli side who had never won the league.
Nothing against LM but DM is better.
His speed was amazing (not his drugs).
Neilstonger
Well-Known Member
Messi, and Ronaldo for that matter, are almost robotic in their perfection. Both are fantastic professionals who have delivered time and time again at the highest level for club(s) and country.
Both are hugely admired and respected by other footballers and anyone who loves football. Maradona, by contrast, was worshipped and held in awe by the general public and other footballers. Maybe it’s his flaws that make him more relatable than the other two.
Blueranger45
Well-Known Member
Messi himself says that he will never be better than Diego how long he lives
don't really get GOAT discussions especially in things like football when eras have changed a lot about the game. Just be happy you got to see these sort of players play the game
david1982
Well-Known Member
Well you would have to ask yourself if that was Maradona lacking dedication and out his tits on Charlie what he could have been if he was dedicated....
Maradona will always be deemed better.....because he was really. He carried his nation to 2 world Cup finals and won 1.
Danger Zone
Just the tip...
His Napoli side werent shit though were they. His career has been romanticised beyond belief by guys who’ve probably seen him play less than 30 or 40 full 90 minutes games in their lives given the limited broadcasting.
As for the guy greetin’ further up the page. If you thought he was going to be loved unanimously on a Rangers forum after his heartless treatment of Ricksen then you probably didn’t think hard enough.
KL2
Well-Known Member
The best ever, alongside Brazilian Ronaldo, for me.
Comparing goal stats from that era and this era is up there with the absolute stupidest things to do, totally different games, styles of football, pitches, physicality, etc...
Maradona was the best in any situation, a god of the game.
Comparing goal stats from that era and this era is up there with the absolute stupidest things to do, totally different games, styles of football, pitches, physicality, etc...
Maradona was the best in any situation, a god of the game.
Shengus Malengus
Well-Known Member
My favourite pic of Diego.
Rest in peace, wee man.
Rest in peace, wee man.
They had never won the league and only won 2 trophies in their history before he came.
Bit shit to me
dt17
The Jay Cartwright of FF
With regards to using Maradona winning trophies at Napoli as a point to say it makes him better than Messi (or whoever else).
Surely there's a point in saying that Messi never had to play for a mediocre side like Napoli because he was so good. The best players in the world tend to play for the best teams in the world.
Surely there's a point in saying that Messi never had to play for a mediocre side like Napoli because he was so good. The best players in the world tend to play for the best teams in the world.
gersrus71
Well-Known Member
The difference between Maradona and Messi is their personality and discipline.
Maradona was good enough to play his whole career at Barca but after he lost the plot and kicked off he had to go.
He kind of had to take a step back to rebuild his reputation and he did it with style.
It’s only a personal opinion that Maradona is better than Messi, that’s not to say Messi is a bad player though as he clearly isn’t.
It’s hardly a slight to be runner up to Maradona is it. Messi himself would probably concede to Diego.
It may well be a generational thing though.
People older than me claim Pele was better as they seen him play, I never seen him play but grew up when Maradona was the man so I argue he was better.
Younger people than me may well not have been around to see Maradona play and so claim Messi is better as they have watched him playing.
I’ve no doubt future generations will have a similar argument, someone will come along and take the game by storm and future generations will say they are better than Messi, the current generation will argue that Messi was better.
I’m just grateful I’m of an age where I’ve seen both Maradona and Messi and hope I live long enough to see the next superstar emerge
dt17
The Jay Cartwright of FF
Pele - claims he's the best.
Maradona - claimed he was the best.
C. Ronaldo - claims he's the best.
Messi is the only humble one out of the lot who's never claimed to be the best.
Maradona's death still being raw and the nostalgia kicking in will no doubt have a lot of people saying he was the greatest. Fair enough and everyone's entitled to their opinion.
I bet a lot of people saying it probably only watched him at the World Cups, therefore base their opinions on a dozen or so games from a full career.
Wade Wilson
Well-Known Member
Each their own.
But give me Maradona ever fn day of the week over Messi. And I say that as someone who wasn't a 'huge' fan of him.
But give me Maradona ever fn day of the week over Messi. And I say that as someone who wasn't a 'huge' fan of him.
GovanFront4
Well-Known Member
Disagree with that a bit. There is an argument to be made, people are always nostalgic about a player after he dies so it's no surprise to see Diego being called the best just now.
I never seen him so can't really comment on his performances much, but Messi wasn't banned for drug offences and has played at the absolutely highest level.
RIP Maradona.
-ZED-
Well-Known Member
Not sure what you mean by “played at the highest level”
In the late 80s and early 90s the Italian league was the highest level. All the great players in the world played there. He joined a team that was regularly in the bottom half, had never won anything, and took them to a level they had never been before. This against the best teams and players in the world at the time.
GovanFront4
Well-Known Member
The Champions League is the highest level of competition there as ever been. The European Cup was easier to win, and Maradona never won it once.
Bristol_bnose3
Well-Known Member
Laughing away here at someone sat in their armchair stating such unmitigated guff as if it is inarguable fact.
GovanFront4
Well-Known Member
In what way? In the European Cup you could get a favourable draw all the way to the final. The Champions League is a much tougher competition in this day and age.
Maradona never won the European Cup once, that must surely go against him the way people throw the World Cup comments at Messi?
BobbyRussellShimmy
Active Member
Exactly, a very good point. As I'm in the more advanced years age group, I can also add that this proves that Roofe is also better than Pele, who tried this at the 1970 World Cup and couldn't even hit the target with the ball going wide of the post.Roofe is better imo.
And to prove it, I'll ask just one question. Did Maradona ever score from his own half on a pitch wetter than Katie Price's knickers?
No?
I rest my case.
Mustang mad
Well-Known Member
A worthy tributeMy favourite pic of Diego.
Rest in peace, wee man.
Danger Zone
Just the tip...
They had never won the league and only won 2 trophies in their history before he came.
Bit shit to me
It is, but they spent money which included buying Diego. The Napoli side he won the scudetto with was built on solid defence that had a phenomenal record, the team included various Italian internationalists like Bagni, Di Napoli and Giordano who went on to amass a shitload of caps between them.
Some went on to win leagues and European trophies with the likes of Juventus too (Ciro Ferrara). Diego is supposed to have won a Scudetto single handedly that year yet he never scored against any of Napoli‘s 3 closest contenders in the 16 team league that season? Doesn’t really add up does it, should also be noted Napoli weren’t the only side to win their first Scudetto in this era, it was a time where record low points totals were clinching the title and more teams were in the mix.
When they won their second title they spent and strengthened again where he was now playing up front with Brazilian internationalist Careca who ended up having a cracking goal record for Napoli, and they beefed up their midfield with internationalists too, so this was a quality side. Was Diego the biggest star and the biggest factor in them winning those titles? Of course he was, he was a genius and they wouldn’t have won them without him which is something you can say about most title winning sides and their top player.
But the idea he won them single handedly is just fantasy peddled by folk who probably barely saw a 90 minute game of Napoli’s but rather looked and said “well they hadn’t won a Scudetto before, Maradona has went there and now they’ve won one therefore he must have done it himself”, but clearly it’s not the case at all.
gersrus71
Well-Known Member
I don’t think anyone is saying he won it single handedly but he dragged the team up a level that helped.
His play and influence helped other players lift their levels.
An argument can be made that some of these other players may not have reached their full potential without Maradona pulling the strings and laying goals on a plate for them with his play
Danger Zone
Just the tip...
Mate the words “single handedly” are used all the time when folk are discussing Mexico 86 and Napoli’s two scudettos, and not just on here but everywhere by fans and media, it’s actually become very cliché. The myth is that he entered these mediocre squads and dragged them to glory in some sort of superhuman feat. This is what happens after players retire though, I’ve seen people claim Zidane won France 98 “almost single handedly” yet I’m old enough to have a clear memory of that tournament and I know full well Zidane actually didn’t play particularly well until the final.
And you could make that claim about any of the great players mate, but some of them were excellent talents and like I said that Napoli side was built from
the back on a solid defence and though I haven’t seen all of their 90 minute games myself I’m confident Diego wasn’t back there spoon feeding the defenders and playing as a sweeper too.
And honestly for all that I get called a Messi fanboy, I bet in 20 years people will talk about him winning CL’s for Barca on his own, omitting the fact that Iniesta was pivotal and actually more of an influence in Rome 09 than the Argie was and that Xavi was in the form of his life at the time etc etc. It’s just what happens with these players. Also for all the shite I get on these threads I’ve actually never once told anyone they were wrong for proclaiming Diego the GOAT, for all he achieved I couldn’t argue against that claim, I’ve only ever argued against the “single handed scudetto and World Cup wins” myth and the ridiculous notion that a modern day player wouldn’t survive in the 80’s and 90’s because opposition defenders were allowed to be more physical.
dt17
The Jay Cartwright of FF
I don't think anyone would argue that without Maradona, Napoli wouldn't have won Serie A. But as it has been pointed out, there's a weird romanticism for everyone to say he won it by himself. Extremely disrespectful towards him teammates for Napoli and Argentina.
If you want to talk about a team being dragged up a level though...
Obviously Barca had a golden generation with Xavi, Iniesta, Puyol etc. But Messi was the crown jewel in that an without him I doubt they would've won as much - especially when Ronaldo was doing the business for Real Madrid in the same period.
-ZED-
Well-Known Member
You could argue that the Champions League money and TV revenues made Barcelona and Resl Madrid the richest clubs in Europe and therefore they can attract the best players and therefore have went on to win the most trophies.I don't think anyone would argue that without Maradona, Napoli wouldn't have won Serie A. But as it has been pointed out, there's a weird romanticism for everyone to say he won it by himself. Extremely disrespectful towards him teammates for Napoli and Argentina.
If you want to talk about a team being dragged up a level though...
Obviously Barca had a golden generation with Xavi, Iniesta, Puyol etc. But Messi was the crown jewel in that an without him I doubt they would've won as much - especially when Ronaldo was doing the business for Real Madrid in the same period.
IMO they would have dominated with or without Messi/Ronaldo
Danger Zone
Just the tip...
You could argue each of Barca’s best players of their treble winning side came through their academy and they paid heehaw for them. Napoli didn’t get Maradona and Careca for a pittance, when clubs get the best players they usually do it with their bank balance and they had a side with top international talent, this wasn’t the “Maradona joins skint relegation battlers and makes them champions” fairy story that it’s all too often made out to be.
Bristol_bnose3
Well-Known Member
All this arguing is daft.
For me, bottom line is that if i had the chance to watch Maradona at his peak or Messi at his peak i'd choose Maradona every time.
Each is the best of their generation by some distance and obviously two of the best players of all time. But Maradona had the 'X' factor, that neither Messi or pretty much any other player has had before or since.
I think that's why pointless obfuscation about titles, trophies etc is meaningless. People's criteria for recognising greatness isn't binary, especially in sport.
For me, bottom line is that if i had the chance to watch Maradona at his peak or Messi at his peak i'd choose Maradona every time.
Each is the best of their generation by some distance and obviously two of the best players of all time. But Maradona had the 'X' factor, that neither Messi or pretty much any other player has had before or since.
I think that's why pointless obfuscation about titles, trophies etc is meaningless. People's criteria for recognising greatness isn't binary, especially in sport.
Jelle1880
Well-Known Member
I think you hit the nail on the head with the 'X-factor' part.
It's why despite Messi and Ronaldo clearly being better I enjoyed watching for example Ronaldinho more. Some players just have that nonchalance that you can't teach.
essex bear
Well-Known Member
You argue your point very well.
Who cares who was the greatest of all time.
Is there such a thing, given the vastly different dynamics of each generation?
Anyone who doesn’t enjoy watching Maradona, Messi, Ronaldo, Zidane, etc are not fans of the beautiful game.
Is there such a thing, given the vastly different dynamics of each generation?
Anyone who doesn’t enjoy watching Maradona, Messi, Ronaldo, Zidane, etc are not fans of the beautiful game.
Danger Zone
Just the tip...
No, which is why it’s funny and why I’ll never say Maradona isn’t the greatest.
But these old punters that do the “eh if Messi played in that era he’d have been retired at 25” routine are absolutely embarrassing. All they’re doing is making baseless claims safe in the knowledge that as ludicrous as it is, it can’t actually be disproven.
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Frank Burnside
Well-Known Member
Messi is simply a footballer. An outstanding footballer but just a footballer nonetheless.
Diego is a God.
Diego is a God.
ClockworkOrange
Well-Known Member
Messi is just another hyper-competitive elite athlete, engineered by scientists and experts from an early age to dominate football. He's also remarkably dull. Nothing interests or excites me about him at all. He's also probably the better player. Maradona, on the other hand, was enigmatic, interesting and unpredictable.
No one from football post-00s will probably ever be remembered as fondly as anyone before that time.
No one from football post-00s will probably ever be remembered as fondly as anyone before that time.
Best make sure you don’t end up like this in 25 years
Danger Zone
Just the tip...
Clearly not true because people who grew up with the 00’s players as the players of their youth aren’t giving a shit about Pele and Diego’s eras and will look back and remember the heroes of their era fondly. I’d also think plenty of Rangers fans would remember Maradona as the heartless shit who stood up a dying man.
GovanBlueNose
Well-Known Member
He and Messi are the 2 greatest players I've ever seen. It's been interesting reading and listening to pundits and former players etc discussing which of the 2 are the GOAT.
RIP Diego Armando Maradona.
RIP Diego Armando Maradona.
ClockworkOrange
Well-Known Member
Sorry, I meant specifically amongst fans from that player’s country.
There will never be another player as adored by Argentinians as Maradona. Like, never. Messi could have won them the World Cup single-handedly and they would still worship at the altar of Diego. He may go on and do it and Maradona would still be number one.
There’s a lot feeding into that that’s specifically to do with Maradona – the goals against England, the World Cup success, all played out against the backdrop of the Falklands– but at its heart, I think, is that he came from a time when footballers were significantly less polished, realer people, one of them. I don’t think you could make the same claim towards lots of guys nowadays. Messi and Ronaldo could have been made in a factory.
I also think the same applies towards most countries. Mbappe will probably be the best player in the world sometime but it’s hard to imagine the French ever loving him as much as Platini or Zidane. England could win the Qatar World Cup but Bobby Moore will always be the Englishman that’s closest to their hearts. I think most of that is to do with the fact that football has never been more detached from the working class man, their wages quite as extortionate as they are now and their lives so completely different from what the rest of us struggle along with. Bobby Moore appeared in an advert encouraging us to go to the pub, FFS!
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Wazza
Well-Known Member
Ronaldinho was a big key in improving Barcelona mind, could have been Beckham that.I don't think anyone would argue that without Maradona, Napoli wouldn't have won Serie A. But as it has been pointed out, there's a weird romanticism for everyone to say he won it by himself. Extremely disrespectful towards him teammates for Napoli and Argentina.
If you want to talk about a team being dragged up a level though...
Obviously Barca had a golden generation with Xavi, Iniesta, Puyol etc. But Messi was the crown jewel in that an without him I doubt they would've won as much - especially when Ronaldo was doing the business for Real Madrid in the same period.
Ha, I’ve seen that advert.Sorry, I meant specifically amongst fans from that player’s country.
There will never be another player as adored by Argentinians as Maradona. Like, never. Messi could have won them the World Cup single-handedly and they would still worship at the altar of Diego. He may go on and do it and Messi would still be number one.
There’s a lot feeding into that that’s specifically to do with Maradona – the goals against England, the World Cup success, all played out against the backdrop of the Falklands– but at its heart, I think, is that he came from a time when footballers were significantly less polished, realer people, one of them. I don’t think you could make the same claim towards lots of guys nowadays. Messi and Ronaldo could have been made in a factory.
I also think the same applies towards most countries. Mbappe will probably be the best player in the world sometime but it’s hard to imagine the French ever loving him as much as Platini or Zidane. England could win the Qatar World Cup but Bobby Moore will always be the Englishman that’s closest to their hearts. I think most of that is to do with the fact that football has never been more detached from the working class man, their wages quite as extortionate as they are now and their lives so completely different from what the rest of us struggle along with. Bobby Moore appeared in an advert encouraging us to go to the pub, FFS!
