For me Helander should be starting matches

B

bassetff

Well-Known Member
And no this isn't a reaction to 2 dropped points today. I said pre match that I felt we were a better side with Helander in the team and I still stand by that.

It's not a pressing issue considering our defence has generally been formidable with either Helander or Balogun in the side, but it doesn't change the fact that I feel we just look a little bit better with Helander in there.

People will point to the fact that Helander was in the team that conceded 3 to Benfica as justification for him being behind Balogun in the pecking order - but quite simply we don't play teams like Benfica in this league. I don't think it makes sense to use that game as a yardstick between the two, especially when it comes the teams we face domestically.

Domestically Helander has absolutely strolled it - we've never lost a league game that he's played in, while Balogun was in the team that conceded 3 to St Mirren, yet it doesn't seem to be held against him in the same way the Benfica game is held against Helander. I feel that one poor game from Helander in Europe has made the gaffers mind up that Balogun should be our first choice.
 
bassetff said:
And no this isn't a reaction to 2 dropped points today. I said pre match that I felt we were a better side with Helander in the team and I still stand by that.

It's not a pressing issue considering our defence has generally been formidable with either Helander or Balogun in the side, but it doesn't change the fact that I feel we just look a little bit better with Helander in there.

People will point to the fact that Helander was in the team that conceded 3 to Benfica as justification for him being behind Balogun in the pecking order - but quite simply we don't play teams like Benfica in this league. I don't think it makes sense to use that game as a yardstick between the two, especially when it comes the teams we face domestically.

Domestically Helander has absolutely strolled it - we've never lost a league game where he's played, while Balogun was in the team that conceded 3 to St Mirren yet it doesn't seem to be held against him in the way the Benfica game is held against Helander. I feel that one poor game from Helander in Europe has made the gaffers mind up that Balogun should be our first choice.
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I agree. I would have Helander as a starter too. But in the St Mirren game Balogun didn't have a howler for all 3 goals. Helander did for Benfica's 3. I also agree that they are incomparable.
 
Completely agree. When Helander plays it's easier for us to progress the ball down the left hand side because he's left footed and finds it easier to give it to Barisic
 
Cole and Seedorf were really quick and shut down well in their front line Helander more outmatched than Balogun in that instance
 
bassetff said:
And no this isn't a reaction to 2 dropped points today. I said pre match that I felt we were a better side with Helander in the team and I still stand by that.

It's not a pressing issue considering our defence has generally been formidable with either Helander or Balogun in the side, but it doesn't change the fact that I feel we just look a little bit better with Helander in there.

People will point to the fact that Helander was in the team that conceded 3 to Benfica as justification for him being behind Balogun in the pecking order - but quite simply we don't play teams like Benfica in this league. I don't think it makes sense to use that game as a yardstick between the two, especially when it comes the teams we face domestically.

Domestically Helander has absolutely strolled it - we've never lost a league game that he's played in, while Balogun was in the team that conceded 3 to St Mirren, yet it doesn't seem to be held against him in the same way the Benfica game is held against Helander. I feel that one poor game from Helander in Europe has made the gaffers mind up that Balogun should be our first choice.
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Instead of who mate ?

the way I interpreted that first quarter today was they manoeuvred our team about into zones they shouldn’t ideally be , balogun was beaten a couple of times on the sideline and crosses into danger zone were made and defended by our motm Steven Davis as per the system .
the actual goal wasn’t so much to do with Leon imo it was that Goldson was dragged out to the other sideline and never heeded the player creeping into his zone leaving him free to right footed slide it into the critical goal area .

‘it was a very good goal by Motherwell tbf but equally it was poor from us on a few levels

so i would say we had a few structural problems caused by motherwell and we didnt hand;e them as well as we could have today .
 
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I prefer Balogun in domestic games and Helander in Europe.

Our recent spate of goals conceded have came from midfielders not doing the defensive duties that Jack does so well. Today it was Kamara too central and not assisting in the right midfield/right back and previous games it was Aribo not covering.
 
Trend to think she helander gives us a slightly better balance being left sided.

I like balogun think his pace allows us to push up further but other side is it compresses the park as well
 
I have to agree. I think the balance looks a bit better when Helander plays, but being fair to Balogun it’s been marginal.

I do feel Helander’s defensive positioning is probably the best at the club however and it has to be acknowledged that he’s played at a higher level than the Nigerian too.

For whatever reason though Gerrard seems to prefer the latter, but personally I’d like to see the big Swede back in for the weekend.
 
I can't see the reasoning in this. Centre backs don't make the team play any better. It's those in front of them. If you are talking about losing goals ok. But Helander doesn't offer anything going forward
 
Disagree totally.
Balogun is a lot better player ImO than Helander.
Balogun is always aware of is around him and looks assured in possession of the ball whereas Helander can be unpredictable at times
 
If you think of most of the goals we’ve conceded in the league they have (recently) come from crosses which the first man doesn’t deal with.

in the last game vs Motherwell and today’s. Actually throw in a two goals from Standard Liege at Ibrox as well.

Balogun is a great CB and has many assets. Blocking crosses at the front post is not one of them and it’s cost us goals.

For me, Helander goes back into the XI for now.
 
irvine96 said:
Disagree totally.
Balogun is a lot better player ImO than Helander.
Balogun is always aware of is around him and looks assured in possession of the ball whereas Helander can be unpredictable at times
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Disagree entirely. It is arguably the biggest flaw in his game.

Katic regularly took pelters on here for his positioning yet Balogun does the same thing at times and nothing is said.
 
I’m happy either way but if pushed I’d pick Helander. I think it’s fair to say he’s a more technical and intelligent defender.
 
Balogun seems poor at defending low crosses whereas Helander is better at blocking them. I'm not too fussed about either of them starting but I do like a left footed centre half on the left.
 
bassetff said:
And no this isn't a reaction to 2 dropped points today. I said pre match that I felt we were a better side with Helander in the team and I still stand by that.

It's not a pressing issue considering our defence has generally been formidable with either Helander or Balogun in the side, but it doesn't change the fact that I feel we just look a little bit better with Helander in there.

People will point to the fact that Helander was in the team that conceded 3 to Benfica as justification for him being behind Balogun in the pecking order - but quite simply we don't play teams like Benfica in this league. I don't think it makes sense to use that game as a yardstick between the two, especially when it comes the teams we face domestically.

Domestically Helander has absolutely strolled it - we've never lost a league game that he's played in, while Balogun was in the team that conceded 3 to St Mirren, yet it doesn't seem to be held against him in the same way the Benfica game is held against Helander. I feel that one poor game from Helander in Europe has made the gaffers mind up that Balogun should be our first choice.
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Ok. A devil's advocate question. Three at the back....Morelos plays up with Itten as a two and Kent Hagi benched?
 
Balogun is obviously quicker but for me Helander is the better defender.

He would be my first choice every day of the week.
 
We're in such a good position that we can chop and change our centre backs with minimal impact on the team. Balogun's pace allowed him to recover a couple of times today where Helander may not have been caught out in the first place. Both of their partnerships with Goldson have been first class and have got to give credit to Connor for that.
 
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Balogun is a solid enough defender, has pace, but the reason I think he is rightly ahead is he is comfortable in moving the ball and stepping out with it to break the line if the other team are using a high press. Helander is a great defender, but in possession is not as good. Not an issue so much in Europe where we defend more, but SPFL Balogun is the obvious choice for me.
 
Helanders a better defender and should be in the team over balogun. Also our defence just looks more calm with helander in the team. Also feel helander and barisic link up better. Balogun is a good player but I just feel positionally he’s not as good as helander. There’s a reason he always uses his pace when a defender should be able to position himself better so that he doesn’t need to use his pace, helander is good at that.

For their goal today he needs to be a yard deeper, and if he is, he stops the goal from happening. Similar situation happened against them in the 2 nil game at the start of the season. Helander positions himself better and knocks it out for a corner when they tried to play a ball across the 6 yard line
 
They’re both good like you say so it’s not a pressing issue, but I’d rather Helander myself. There seems to have been a lot chat about his pace recently, and while he can look cumbersome the only time he’s really been done for pace is Benfica this season and to a lesser extent Feyenoord away last year.

Today’s goal doesn’t happen with Helander in the team IMO, I like Balogun but he isn’t as positionally aware as Helander and he does rely on his pace to bail him out sometimes - which isn’t necessarily a criticism as if you have it, why not use it. We’ve conceded 2/3 goals now though which I think Balogun could’ve prevented if his positioning was a bit better at the front post.

It’s a good headache to have though, certainly beats the era of Russell Martin’s and Rob Keirnan’s which wasn’t that long ago really. I wouldn’t be averse to resting Goldson and playing both in a partnership either, which I’m slightly surprised we’ve not seen this season.
 
I wonder if Helander still hasnt fully recovered from his bout with covid?

your hearing more and more of folk not being that bad, but not feeling right for months after

(on a similar note, Edouard over the road hasnt been the same since he got it either)
 
I think Helander is the better defender, but the way we play leaves lots of space in behind and Helander is not suited to that type of game.

Motherwell had two pacy players in Cole and Seedorf, I think that is why Balogun played.

I am just happy to have two players who can slot in and do the job required with minimum fuss.
 
I think Balogun is a good player and done really well.

However, I don't think he's looked too great in the last couple of goals we've lost. A lot is made of his pace but a few times he's using it to recover because he's getting dragged into positions.

I prefer Helander personally but don't know if he's been struggling fitness wise. Last two away games he played in were clean sheets.
 
prenzlauerbear said:
Disagree entirely. It is arguably the biggest flaw in his game.

Katic regularly took pelters on here for his positioning yet Balogun does the same thing at times and nothing is said.
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Agree with this also. Balogun can be a bit too relaxed on the ball and doesn't read the game nearly as well as Helander. Having pace is a great attribute for a CH but if it's required to cover a mistake, it's not ideal.

He is the only player in the team I feel nervous about having the ball at his feet when we are under pressure. Probably a bit harsh as Goldson / Tav have previous for shipping possession.

I just feel more comfortable when Helander is playing. Not sure who it was that said it but I like the saying 'a good defender doesn't need to run / tackle' (I'm paraphrasing).
 
TheEgg said:
I wonder if Helander still hasnt fully recovered from his bout with covid?

your hearing more and more of folk not being that bad, but not feeling right for months after

(on a similar note, Edouard over the road hasnt been the same since he got it either)
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very good point. Long covid can cause fatigue etc. Hopefully he’s not got any problems and it’s just tactical that he’s not been playing
 
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