For me Helander should be starting matches

Balogun is a better defender, Helander is better at playing out from the back. It's a balancing act as to who is better for any individual game.
 
bassetff said:
And no this isn't a reaction to 2 dropped points today. I said pre match that I felt we were a better side with Helander in the team and I still stand by that.

It's not a pressing issue considering our defence has generally been formidable with either Helander or Balogun in the side, but it doesn't change the fact that I feel we just look a little bit better with Helander in there.

People will point to the fact that Helander was in the team that conceded 3 to Benfica as justification for him being behind Balogun in the pecking order - but quite simply we don't play teams like Benfica in this league. I don't think it makes sense to use that game as a yardstick between the two, especially when it comes the teams we face domestically.

Domestically Helander has absolutely strolled it - we've never lost a league game that he's played in, while Balogun was in the team that conceded 3 to St Mirren, yet it doesn't seem to be held against him in the same way the Benfica game is held against Helander. I feel that one poor game from Helander in Europe has made the gaffers mind up that Balogun should be our first choice.
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I have been saying for ages he is our best defender and when fit should be starting he has played in Italy where they know how to defend a lot go on about his lack of pace but he doesn’t get caught out because of his positional sense btw Davie weir never had pace neither did Terry Butcher two of our best ever defenders he has had one bad game away to Benfica and has hardly had a look in since. Balogun is decent but 33 now and a career total of just over 100 games tells a story he is a journey man back up player
 
coldbear said:
Balogun is a better defender, Helander is better at playing out from the back. It's a balancing act as to who is better for any individual game.
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Balogun is a better defender??????

I suppose it’s all about opinions but I just don’t know why you think that! Helander is by far a better defender
 
Everybody knows Helander had a mare against Benfica and was ripped apart but cmon to f*ck those players could do that to anybody. Benfica are the best side we've played under Gerrard imo.

It's a strange one. Helander has been outstanding in all but 2 or 3 games since he's been here. He's the best pure defender at the club for me.
 
Balogun has not done a lot wrong, but I’d also vote Helander, think he’s a better defender. It seems Gerrard lost a bit of faith in him after the Benfica game and Balogun has served us pretty well.
 
Its no coincidence that we are now losing more goals with both Jack and Helander missing.

Both players dont have pace but they make up for it with their footballing brains. They both read the game so well and are often in the right place at the right time.
 
Scooby said:
I think Helander is the better defender, but the way we play leaves lots of space in behind and Helander is not suited to that type of game.

Motherwell had two pacy players in Cole and Seedorf, I think that is why Balogun played.

I am just happy to have two players who can slot in and do the job required with minimum fuss.
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Both are excellent defenders but Balogun has a bit more pace to get back when the whole team has pushed up and there’s a long ball counter attack for a speedy runner to chase.
 
imvaison said:
Both are excellent defenders but Balogun has a bit more pace to get back when the whole team has pushed up and there’s a long ball counter attack for a speedy runner to chase.
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We've not lost a league game when Helander has played since hes been at the club. Do you not think this lack of pace myth would have been exposed by now if it really was that big an issue?
 
Balogun got caught wandering at their goal. However, there was a foot race with one of their players afterwards which Balogun just managed to win, Helander wouldn’t have done.

Once Jack is back our defence will be fine.
 
bassetff said:
And no this isn't a reaction to 2 dropped points today. I said pre match that I felt we were a better side with Helander in the team and I still stand by that.

It's not a pressing issue considering our defence has generally been formidable with either Helander or Balogun in the side, but it doesn't change the fact that I feel we just look a little bit better with Helander in there.

People will point to the fact that Helander was in the team that conceded 3 to Benfica as justification for him being behind Balogun in the pecking order - but quite simply we don't play teams like Benfica in this league. I don't think it makes sense to use that game as a yardstick between the two, especially when it comes the teams we face domestically.

Domestically Helander has absolutely strolled it - we've never lost a league game that he's played in, while Balogun was in the team that conceded 3 to St Mirren, yet it doesn't seem to be held against him in the same way the Benfica game is held against Helander. I feel that one poor game from Helander in Europe has made the gaffers mind up that Balogun should be our first choice.
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Agree mate imo he's our best Central defender, Balogun has been a superb signing, but we look more fragile without Helander.
 
bassetff said:
And no this isn't a reaction to 2 dropped points today. I said pre match that I felt we were a better side with Helander in the team and I still stand by that.

It's not a pressing issue considering our defence has generally been formidable with either Helander or Balogun in the side, but it doesn't change the fact that I feel we just look a little bit better with Helander in there.

People will point to the fact that Helander was in the team that conceded 3 to Benfica as justification for him being behind Balogun in the pecking order - but quite simply we don't play teams like Benfica in this league. I don't think it makes sense to use that game as a yardstick between the two, especially when it comes the teams we face domestically.

Domestically Helander has absolutely strolled it - we've never lost a league game that he's played in, while Balogun was in the team that conceded 3 to St Mirren, yet it doesn't seem to be held against him in the same way the Benfica game is held against Helander. I feel that one poor game from Helander in Europe has made the gaffers mind up that Balogun should be our first choice.
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Couldn’t agree more, helander reads the game better and is so dominant in the air, but at the same time we are fortunate to have the choice.
 
CaptainHolt said:
I can’t understand the criticism of Balogun. Goldson was the one who cost us a goal today. Balogun has been solid for us
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The striker did get passed Goldson that’s fair but balogun has to be a yard deeper. He needs to read the game better in that situation. This is his key weakness.
 
I think the fact we have lost 7 goals in the league all season would indicate that the management are getting this right.

The fact we are 20 points cLear would suggest the management team are getting to majority of decisions right so I think we need to trust them.
 
I prefer Helander, I think he's the better defender of the two.

I also like having a left footed CB for balance.
 
bassetff said:
And no this isn't a reaction to 2 dropped points today. I said pre match that I felt we were a better side with Helander in the team and I still stand by that.

It's not a pressing issue considering our defence has generally been formidable with either Helander or Balogun in the side, but it doesn't change the fact that I feel we just look a little bit better with Helander in there.

People will point to the fact that Helander was in the team that conceded 3 to Benfica as justification for him being behind Balogun in the pecking order - but quite simply we don't play teams like Benfica in this league. I don't think it makes sense to use that game as a yardstick between the two, especially when it comes the teams we face domestically.

Domestically Helander has absolutely strolled it - we've never lost a league game that he's played in, while Balogun was in the team that conceded 3 to St Mirren, yet it doesn't seem to be held against him in the same way the Benfica game is held against Helander. I feel that one poor game from Helander in Europe has made the gaffers mind up that Balogun should be our first choice.
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Balogun wasn't on the park for st mirrens 3rd. We only had 1 centre half to defend that corner.

Another of their goals was a penalty where Bassey got caught.

Not comparable
 
Just about every goal we concede will be the result of us playing our full backs so high up the pitch, and having full backs who are 1st pick based more on what they bring going forward, as opposed to playing full backs who are out and out defenders.

This is by design. We accept that playing this way we'll concede a few goals. But what we gain at the other end of the pitch far outweighs this. Get used to it.

For what it's worth, I don't think we've conceded many (any?) goals this season where you could say one centre half playing instead of another would have prevented it.
 
I'm stuck between the devil and the deep blue sea.

CG gets injured - then we have PH and LB playing together.

Got to leave this one to the Gaffer and his team - there must be a method in their thoughts... [not madness].
 
For me Helander is marginally the better of the 2, had a poor game against Benfica and seems to have dropped down the pecking order since
 
Goldson and Helander has been our best partnership since Weir and Cuellar, arguable that they're better as a pair.

I have no idea why Balogun is ahead of him, the pace argument would make more sense if Helander doesn't more than make up for it with his positioning but he does.
 
I have no concerns with either of them playing but agree with op would like to see helander more often as I feel he’s excellent in this league. I can see why gerrard would go with balogun with regards to his pace. There was huge chunks of that second half today where our whole team were in the Motherwell final third so having some pace at the back is necessary
 
jscotty1 said:
If you think of most of the goals we’ve conceded in the league they have (recently) come from crosses which the first man doesn’t deal with.

in the last game vs Motherwell and today’s. Actually throw in a two goals from Standard Liege at Ibrox as well.

Balogun is a great CB and has many assets. Blocking crosses at the front post is not one of them and it’s cost us goals.

For me, Helander goes back into the XI for now.
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Mental analysis
 
jscotty1 said:
If you think of most of the goals we’ve conceded in the league they have (recently) come from crosses which the first man doesn’t deal with.

in the last game vs Motherwell and today’s. Actually throw in a two goals from Standard Liege at Ibrox as well.

Balogun is a great CB and has many assets. Blocking crosses at the front post is not one of them and it’s cost us goals.

For me, Helander goes back into the XI for now.
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I can't believe you're getting flack for this, it's spot on.

Balogun is dreadful at dealing with crosses that come in from his side.
 
coldbear said:
Balogun is a better defender, Helander is better at playing out from the back. It's a balancing act as to who is better for any individual game.
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I get the comment that Helander has better positioning. But I disagree he is better playing out from the back. If anything I think Balogun's use of the ball from defence is better, whether driving into midfield or playing it to a more advanced player
 
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Gee said:
I have been saying for ages he is our best defender and when fit should be starting he has played in Italy where they know how to defend a lot go on about his lack of pace but he doesn’t get caught out because of his positional sense btw Davie weir never had pace neither did Terry Butcher two of our best ever defenders he has had one bad game away to Benfica and has hardly had a look in since. Balogun is decent but 33 now and a career total of just over 100 games tells a story he is a journey man back up player
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Mate, come on.

244 appearances
And 32 International caps

At least dont make absurd stats up?
 
CaptainHolt said:
I can’t understand the criticism of Balogun. Goldson was the one who cost us a goal today. Balogun has been solid for us
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Because those who don't favour him look for any reason to get him out

Look at the first reply to this post, "aye, well Goldson did get beat one on one but its still Balogun's fault because I want my preferred player in the team"
 
Craig McColl said:
What does Balogun do that's better than Helander? He's faster that's the only attribute he has over Helander imo. People say he's got great pace to make recovery blocks and tackles completely missing the fact that he has to use it to cover up from his mistakes of poor positioning or diving in.
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The reason I said mental analysis today, the post you quoted, is that people are using the goal today to blame Balogun when there were 2 or 3 players earlier in the play who could have stopped the cross coming over, so then to blame the guy who was a ball hair from cutting it out at the end and the only one who got anywhere near the cross at any point seems like people trying to justify the selection they want rather than assessing the individual bit of play on its individual merit.
 
I reckon Helander will start against Ross County.

I like Balogun but I've always preferred a Goldson/Helander partnership due to the big mans awareness and anticipation of danger.
 
Tailwind said:
The reason I said mental analysis today, the post you quoted, is that people are using the goal today to blame Balogun when there were 2 or 3 players earlier in the play who could have stopped the cross coming over, so then to blame the guy who was a ball hair from cutting it out at the end and the only one who got anywhere near the cross at any point seems like people trying to justify the selection they want rather than assessing the individual bit of play on its individual merit.
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Should've read full thread. I'm just talking on what I've watched over the course of this season. He makes quite a lot of last ditch tackles and blocks for me after his positional mistakes and I think he tends to dive in prematurely as well. Not saying he's shit better than Katic has been 2 previous seasons. I just think Helander is far superior all round defender.
 
Tailwind said:
The reason I said mental analysis today, the post you quoted, is that people are using the goal today to blame Balogun when there were 2 or 3 players earlier in the play who could have stopped the cross coming over, so then to blame the guy who was a ball hair from cutting it out at the end and the only one who got anywhere near the cross at any point seems like people trying to justify the selection they want rather than assessing the individual bit of play on its individual merit.
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A fair point if we were only talking about the goal today, but as people have pointed out it’s been noticeable in a few goals we’ve conceded this season. Perhaps being pernickety, given we’ve hardly concede goals in the league at all, but it’s happened often enough that it’s a noticeable weakness in Balogun’s game.
 
Helander would have had no impact on goal we conceded today imo.

Similar to a few other goals this season, came down to goldson and tav not communicating and goldson being stuck out wide needing to cut out the cross.
 
ClubFootZzZ said:
A fair point if we were only talking about the goal today, but as people have pointed out it’s been noticeable in a few goals we’ve conceded this season. Perhaps being pernickety, given we’ve hardly concede goals in the league at all, but it’s happened often enough that it’s a noticeable weakness in Balogun’s game.
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Disagree
 
Gennaro_88 said:
Helander would have had no impact on goal we conceded today imo.

Similar to a few other goals this season, came down to goldson and tav not communicating and goldson being stuck out wide needing to cut out the cross.
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Thats because you're judging the individual passage of play and not just using it to support a predetermined narrative that your preferred player should be in the team
 
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