An honest assessment of myself

JW1988

JW1988

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
I thought before last night that I kind of understood racism, couldn’t understand how it felt to be a victim, but thought I had an idea.
After seeing the reaction of Kamara, Zungu and Goldson and more so Goldson’s interview today, it hit me.
I don’t have a clue.
The hurt in his voice today is still haunting me all these hours later.

I’m angry. I’ve spent all night and day angry and I don’t even know Glen. I can’t imagine what Glen, his family and his team mates are going through. How they showed the restraint they did is beyond me.

I disliked the taking of the knee, not because I’m a racist, but for me because it represented the ugly BLM scenes we saw. Again, it’s struck me, I don’t have a clue.

When the likes of the Man U players and Zaha were abused online I thought that’s terrible, but never really gave it much thought.
This has to stop. Our club has to take it all the way. If (when) UEFA don’t deal with it I hope we take it further.

As society we need to do more
We need to be better
 
It actually made me feel a bit sick, the same as the Bulgaria V England game from last year; pure and utter racism laid bare. It's disgraceful.

It will probably never heal the wounds, but I'd fucking love another crack at that mob. The way they casually ignored such a serious incident to jump around celebrating, their manager swaggering about with his hat on backwards. This game has a way of biting you on the arse, it couldn't happen to a nicer bunch.
 
My misses isn't white, my kids are mixed face.

The fist time i was confronted by racism was in a restaurant in Paris. It hurt me to see my misses have to basically ignore such behaviour to not cause a scene.

I am a very placid person, never been a fighter in my life and never will be but i was ready to go to town that evening.

Maybe things have got better or maybe i just ignore it now as well but i can imagine how much it must hurt an individual having witnessed the person i love so much that night having to swallow her pride and carry on quietly head down for the sake of a peaceful meal for two.

It really shouldn't be acceptable in this day and age and gladly it becomes less so every day.

I can turn that right on it's head and say i am not sure i fully agree with all this taking the knee patter, really not sure what that is meant to mean or what it accomplishes.

It is such a tricky argument, such a nuanced issue, one that means different things for different people living in different countries where standards could or can differ greatly.

It is a blight though, can be no doubt about that.
 
My cousin is mixed race , I recall very vividly the first time he was abused in my presence , he was quiet completely calm but something in the way he looked really stuck with me , it looked like a guy who felt completely helpless , I remember getting really angry and asking why he wasn't going mad , his reply was "I'm passed that stage "

hit me hard .
 
JW1988 said:
I thought before last night that I kind of understood racism, couldn’t understand how it felt to be a victim, but thought I had an idea.
After seeing the reaction of Kamara, Zungu and Goldson and more so Goldson’s interview today, it hit me.
I don’t have a clue.
The hurt in his voice today is still haunting me all these hours later.

I’m angry. I’ve spent all night and day angry and I don’t even know Glen. I can’t imagine what Glen, his family and his team mates are going through. How they showed the restraint they did is beyond me.

I disliked the taking of the knee, not because I’m a racist, but for me because it represented the ugly BLM scenes we saw. Again, it’s struck me, I don’t have a clue.

When the likes of the Man U players and Zaha were abused online I thought that’s terrible, but never really gave it much thought.
This has to stop. Our club has to take it all the way. If (when) UEFA don’t deal with it I hope we take it further.

As society we need to do more
We need to be better
Click to expand...
Mate I'm exactly the same.

Been a massive eye opener. Not just the racism but the people out calling kamara a liar. I've had numerous arguments online today and it shocks me
 
artificialintoleranz said:
My misses isn't white, my kids are mixed face.

The fist time i was confronted by racism was in a restaurant in Paris. It hurt me to see my misses have to basically ignore such behaviour to not cause a scene.

I am a very placid person, never been a fighter in my life and never will be but i was ready to go to town that evening.

Maybe things have got better or maybe i just ignore it now as well but i can imagine how much it must hurt an individual having witnessed the person i love so much that night having to swallow her pride and carry on quietly head down for the sake of a peaceful meal for two.

It really shouldn't be acceptable in this day and age and gladly it becomes less so every day.

I can turn that right on it's head and say i am not sure i fully agree with all this taking the knee patter, really not sure what that is meant to mean or what it accomplishes.

It is such a tricky argument, such a nuanced issue, one that means different things for different people living in different countries where standards could or can differ greatly.

It is a blight though, can be no doubt about that.
Click to expand...

I initially wasn't too critical of taking the knee but feel it lost it's message just seems to be a ritual now .
 
You know mate, I'm going to add my weight to this thread.

I consider myself very open minded and treat everyone well. I care not for religion and see people as humans regardless of colour so I always thought I understood the concept of racism.

However, I was wrong. I didn't understand it fully until now. Seeing Goldson and Kamara has really opened my eyes to the way that some view black people as subhuman simply because of their colour and the hurt it causes them.

I'm genuinely struggling to get my head around the events of 24 hours ago. I couldn't even sleep last night. I received an education in something I thought I already knew it all about.

Proud of all our players and standing squarely behind all of our black players especially.

NO TO RACISM.
 
It starts with education mate. What I will say is people still need to realise that everyone is different in their own respect but we are still human at the end of the day.
 
I have tried explaining this to people in the past and your right it’s difficult for people to understand.
When i was younger i got racially abused playing for my local team 3 times. One was a player on the pitch standing next to referee and called me a BB. Referee did nothing. Next one was a few years later some guy at side of the park had his dog with him and was shouting go bite that BB.

And final time was a group of kids calling me a BB from the side of the pitch.

The ignorant thing is im not Black. My mum is white and my Dad is Pakistani. Once at School everyday i walked past this boy he used to call me a Pa.ki b. Until i had enough and told my mates as he was older, and they gave him a doing. That was the last time it happened thankfully.

The point im trying to make is im now 37 and i can still remember every one of them. It never leaves you. People compare it to calling someone specy, ginger, big ears, big nose etc. It’s nothing like it. Ive been slagged for other things like everyone else and none of that bothers me, the racism does.
 
I think what Goldson said about white folk not having to hear such terms aimed at them and therefore not understanding the true hurt that it causes was 100% spot-on. That's why it really pisses me off when you have people moaning about players taking the knee, for instance, when they (and myself) have never had to face prejudice. Sick of hearing complaints about "box-ticking" and all the fake self-righteous claptrap from some about people rightfully flagging up prejudice.
 
Damski said:
I think what Goldson said about white folk not having to hear such terms aimed at them and therefore not understanding the true hurt that it causes was 100% spot-on. That's why it really pisses me off when you have people moaning about players taking the knee, for instance, when they (and myself) have never had to face prejudice. Sick of hearing complaints about "box-ticking" and all the fake self-righteous claptrap from some about people rightfully flagging up prejudice.
Click to expand...

With the absolute greatest of respect because I do see your point, Goldson himself basically says it's just box ticking tonight.
 
Sadly I'm not shocked, it's actually something if you expected to come would be from backwards pricks like Eastern Europeans. "He's a nice guy, he wouldn't do that, Kamara lied". Aye OK slavia, so he wasn't mocking him from 6 yards away and when that didn't work he acted like a rat, that didn't happen? People need opinions, and I still don't like the knee taking. It's just a kick off routine, it's not working. Just smacks to me for a long time and what goldson said, an upper decision in football to make folk think they care when literally they don't give a stuff. Whilst I don't like it, I respect any player who feels they do or don't want to do it. As a club on Sunday, I'd rather we didn't do the knee, however I'd be glad to see us do something else in unity accross the players and manager pre kick off with a message on t shirts or something. We couldn't get a bigger game where people will see it far and wide and make sure everyone knows why and if they don't questions will be asked why we had to.
 
Seeing the outrage and hurt from Kamara - as nice and mellow a guy is there is by all accounts - really stung me as if he was my own brother.

The authorities can no longer pussy-foot around this issue - the slap on the wrist approach is evidently not working. The most serious of punishments must now be meted out if things are truly to change.
 
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As a middle aged white bloke who has been fortunate to live, work and travel all over the world, I have been lucky, probably priviliged, to have been welcomed with, at worst, open arms, pretty much everywhere I have been.

My wife is from Kyrgyzstan, and muslim, and we had an incident in a small village in Saxony, but apart from that, we've sailed through life.

The sheer egregiousness of the cruelty and malice dished out to Glen is what hits you in the solar plexus, it was like my brother or sister, or any family member, having a liberty taken and being powerless to help.

Hopefully a few of us have seen that our lived experience simply doesn't compare to that of those who are abused simply because of how God (or nature) made them.

Enough, it happened in our house, let's make sure it never happens again.

It is International End Racism Day on Sunday, which might be an opportunity to reflect on what you can do to fight this cancer in society.

www.un.org

International Day for the Elimination of Racial Discrimination | United Nations

Racial and ethnic discrimination occur on a daily basis, hindering progress for millions of people around the world. Racism and intolerance can take various forms — from denying individuals the basic principles of equality to fuelling ethnic hatred that may lead to genocide — all of which can...
www.un.org www.un.org
 
immortal7 said:
As a middle aged white bloke who has been fortunate to live, work and travel all over the world, I have been lucky, probably priviliged, to have been welcomed with, at worst, open arms, pretty much everywhere I have been.

My wife is from Kyrgyzstan, and muslim, and we had an incident in a small village in Saxony, but apart from that, we've sailed through life.

The sheer egregiousness of the cruelty and malice dished out to Glen is what hits you in the solar plexus, it was like my brother or sister, or any family member, having a liberty taken and being powerless to help.

Hopefully a few of us have seen that our lived experience simply doesn't compare to that of those who are abused simply because of how God (or nature) made them.

Enough, it happened in our house, let's make sure it never happens again.

It is International End Racism Day on Sunday, which might be an opportunity to reflect on what you can do to fight this cancer in society.

www.un.org

International Day for the Elimination of Racial Discrimination | United Nations

Racial and ethnic discrimination occur on a daily basis, hindering progress for millions of people around the world. Racism and intolerance can take various forms — from denying individuals the basic principles of equality to fuelling ethnic hatred that may lead to genocide — all of which can...
www.un.org www.un.org
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Didn't know that, it would be a good time to me for what I mentioned above. Let's not do the knee, let's have our players subs and management as one with a very simple message for the world to see and the prick from Prague to heed.
 
Armchair flautist said:
Quite rightly you abhor racism, will you be calling the mentally challengeds all the names under the sun, and singing our songs on Sunday?
Click to expand...
If you’re referring to Billy boys etc

I got past that when I was 14.

I hate Celtic, not catholics.
There’s a lot about Catholicism I don’t agree with, but that’s nothing to do with football.
Hope I’ve caught your point correctly
 
JW1988 said:
I thought before last night that I kind of understood racism, couldn’t understand how it felt to be a victim, but thought I had an idea.
After seeing the reaction of Kamara, Zungu and Goldson and more so Goldson’s interview today, it hit me.
I don’t have a clue.
The hurt in his voice today is still haunting me all these hours later.

I’m angry. I’ve spent all night and day angry and I don’t even know Glen. I can’t imagine what Glen, his family and his team mates are going through. How they showed the restraint they did is beyond me.

I disliked the taking of the knee, not because I’m a racist, but for me because it represented the ugly BLM scenes we saw. Again, it’s struck me, I don’t have a clue.

When the likes of the Man U players and Zaha were abused online I thought that’s terrible, but never really gave it much thought.
This has to stop. Our club has to take it all the way. If (when) UEFA don’t deal with it I hope we take it further.

As society we need to do more
We need to be better
Click to expand...
You’ve nailed this for me.
 
Thommo2006 said:
Mate I'm exactly the same.

Been a massive eye opener. Not just the racism but the people out calling kamara a liar. I've had numerous arguments online today and it shocks me
Click to expand...
Block them mate as arguing with knuckledraggers wastes your time, life is for living mate not enduring and giving your valuable time giving those sort the platform to spout they’re racist pish is not right
 
Goldson’s voice during the interview made me fill with tears, I was genuinely surprised at my own reaction.

And now watching the incident back, seeing Kamara leaning into the guy just ready to listen to what he’s got to say, and being racially abused, is genuinely breaking my heart over and over.
 
My own encounter with racism (if you can call it that) was getting into an argument over food at a barbecue, many years ago.
The guy was an English, Leeds fan and I grabbed the last bit of chicken. He then went on a rant about how I shouldn’t be there with all the English people.
I was “nothing but a FRISP”, and while some of his mates laughed, I had no idea what he had called me and my other friends told me not to react, but I had no idea what he had said.
I was then told that “FRISP” was an acronym for “fucking repulsive ignorant Scottish prick”.
Angry? I wanted blood.

That wee (cool) story has lived with me for all my life, and is the reason I hate Leeds fans. This is not an anti-English rant as my best man and god father to my children is a scoucer, so let’s not go there.

My wee rant is only a drop in the ocean compared to what other minorities suffer, on a day to day basis in this country. It sickens me.
 
This OP is spot on. Very powerful insight. I’m the same, in a sense that I understand it and I despise it. But I will never truly understand the pain and anguish it can cause. Seeing the reaction of Kamara and Goldson really brought it home.

There’s no room for racism in society. That much is clear. Football needs to stamp it out properly.
 
I have had the same feelings all day OP. I'm absolutely gutted about this, also after it happened I had a good think to myself, I have witnessed this behaviour, even in our own stands and I didn't stand up to the person saying these things. I have made a promise to myself I won't let this happen in my presence again. I treat everyone the same, no matter colour, religion or background. When I seen Kamara after what was said to him, I had a feeling I haven't felt before. I have grown to love this team, our team, and to see one of them hurt like that, was sickening.
 
JW1988 said:
I thought before last night that I kind of understood racism, couldn’t understand how it felt to be a victim, but thought I had an idea.
After seeing the reaction of Kamara, Zungu and Goldson and more so Goldson’s interview today, it hit me.
I don’t have a clue.
The hurt in his voice today is still haunting me all these hours later.

I’m angry. I’ve spent all night and day angry and I don’t even know Glen. I can’t imagine what Glen, his family and his team mates are going through. How they showed the restraint they did is beyond me.

I disliked the taking of the knee, not because I’m a racist, but for me because it represented the ugly BLM scenes we saw. Again, it’s struck me, I don’t have a clue.

When the likes of the Man U players and Zaha were abused online I thought that’s terrible, but never really gave it much thought.
This has to stop. Our club has to take it all the way. If (when) UEFA don’t deal with it I hope we take it further.

As society we need to do more
We need to be better
Click to expand...

What a post that is.

I’ve shared that on a few What’s App groups.

Everyone needs to read that.
 
JW1988 said:
I thought before last night that I kind of understood racism, couldn’t understand how it felt to be a victim, but thought I had an idea.
After seeing the reaction of Kamara, Zungu and Goldson and more so Goldson’s interview today, it hit me.
I don’t have a clue.
The hurt in his voice today is still haunting me all these hours later.

I’m angry. I’ve spent all night and day angry and I don’t even know Glen. I can’t imagine what Glen, his family and his team mates are going through. How they showed the restraint they did is beyond me.

I disliked the taking of the knee, not because I’m a racist, but for me because it represented the ugly BLM scenes we saw. Again, it’s struck me, I don’t have a clue.

When the likes of the Man U players and Zaha were abused online I thought that’s terrible, but never really gave it much thought.
This has to stop. Our club has to take it all the way. If (when) UEFA don’t deal with it I hope we take it further.

As society we need to do more
We need to be better
Click to expand...
To my shame it has taken this incident to truly see the effect this has on people of colour. I felt sick to the stomach for Glen and I realised that what I was calling the Czech guy that was involved was also racist. Had to have a word with myself.
 
I never understood it (and don’t really now compared to black or Asian folk) but a mate of mine from Zimbabwe when all the BLM stuff was going on and he felt more empowered than before to hit out at racism and how it had affected him. He had been as quiet as a mouse for the 10 years before and it all came out. I hadn’t registered all the years of pent up anger he had felt about being judged by the colour of his skin.

The closest I can get to imagining it is when going to some developing countries and folk stare at you and treat you a bit differently. Most of us know that feeling. Then imagine that every day. Then imagine that every day in the country you are born and call your own.
 
KGer29 said:
Goldson’s voice during the interview made me fill with tears, I was genuinely surprised at my own reaction.

And now watching the incident back, seeing Kamara leaning into the guy just ready to listen to what he’s got to say, and being racially abused, is genuinely breaking my heart over and over.
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You're not the only one. I was just about to post the exact same. My heart genuinely broke listening to him.
 
JW1988 said:
I thought before last night that I kind of understood racism, couldn’t understand how it felt to be a victim, but thought I had an idea.
After seeing the reaction of Kamara, Zungu and Goldson and more so Goldson’s interview today, it hit me.
I don’t have a clue.
The hurt in his voice today is still haunting me all these hours later.

I’m angry. I’ve spent all night and day angry and I don’t even know Glen. I can’t imagine what Glen, his family and his team mates are going through. How they showed the restraint they did is beyond me.

I disliked the taking of the knee, not because I’m a racist, but for me because it represented the ugly BLM scenes we saw. Again, it’s struck me, I don’t have a clue.

When the likes of the Man U players and Zaha were abused online I thought that’s terrible, but never really gave it much thought.
This has to stop. Our club has to take it all the way. If (when) UEFA don’t deal with it I hope we take it further.

As society we need to do more
We need to be better
Click to expand...
Great post.
 
Armchair flautist said:
Fair enough mate, I've marched in Loyalist bands, I've called them everything under the sun, been called everything under the sun, I've absolutely no problem with that, however if our fans are going to go the full hog against racism, you can't then start singing songs about 19th Century Terrorist blood and mentally challenged Pedophilia, that's losing the moral high ground surely?
Click to expand...
Wrong.

”mentally challenged pedophilia” as you put it, should have every light shone on it. Whether that be at football matches or social media or courts.
Crimes which are being covered up should have every light pointed at them.
If my voice is amplified by others shouting the same message, then the message is amplified.
 
SenoraCuellar said:
I could have cried when he said it wont change.
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It was a hard listen and watch. You wonder if he looks at his white team mates and thinks despite all the support they give and how great the gaffer had been, can they really understand. It was a bit haunting. If any good has come if it hopefully it’s that a wee bit more intolerance has been removed even from ourselves as we see one of our own suffer.
 
I agree with the OP. However I cannot support the BLM organisation it stands against democracy capitalism etc. I fully agree with the BLM statement it’s 2021 all people are equal and should be treated as such.
 
JW1988 said:
I thought before last night that I kind of understood racism, couldn’t understand how it felt to be a victim, but thought I had an idea.
After seeing the reaction of Kamara, Zungu and Goldson and more so Goldson’s interview today, it hit me.
I don’t have a clue.
The hurt in his voice today is still haunting me all these hours later.

I’m angry. I’ve spent all night and day angry and I don’t even know Glen. I can’t imagine what Glen, his family and his team mates are going through. How they showed the restraint they did is beyond me.

I disliked the taking of the knee, not because I’m a racist, but for me because it represented the ugly BLM scenes we saw. Again, it’s struck me, I don’t have a clue.

When the likes of the Man U players and Zaha were abused online I thought that’s terrible, but never really gave it much thought.
This has to stop. Our club has to take it all the way. If (when) UEFA don’t deal with it I hope we take it further.

As society we need to do more
We need to be better
Click to expand...
That's a brilliant self questioning post, very insightful
 
Armchair flautist said:
Of course it should, but is singing about it at a football match shining a light on it, or scoring cheap points?
Click to expand...
You know you are right but it's not what you people want to hear. Like you I grew up in a different generation and I can honestly say my teenage kids have a better awareness of different cultures than ever I had a chance of being taught.
 
cooprfc said:
With the absolute greatest of respect because I do see your point, Goldson himself basically says it's just box ticking tonight.
Click to expand...
The context of the term "box-ticking" I'm using refers to how people use the term when, say, a female is one of the panel on TV at half-time and post-game, as if she is only there to fill quotas rather than having any knowledge of the game. It's the go-to term people like to throw about all the time and it's really fucking tedious and, frankly, suspect in that context.
 
daviemc1872 said:
I initially wasn't too critical of taking the knee but feel it lost it's message just seems to be a ritual now .
Click to expand...
Listen to Connor Goldson today when asked what can you do and he said nothing, because nothing ever happens and then he said take the knee. This is because they feel helpless and on the same merry go round and when given the chance to make a stance that will make people take some notice then they need to take it and that for now is taking the knee. Something that folk feel they have to make comment on became extremely personal to all Rangers fans today and we can't let this sh*t be appeased at any level!
 
Great post OP. This whole issue unfortunately looks like it will take generations of racist people to die off with hopefully newer generations simply not countenancing this type of behaviour. As a white person last night brought home to me that I can have an opinion of racist behaviour and empathy for the victim but I cannot possibly comprehend what it feels like to be on the receiving end. It struck me from the reaction of our black players that there was immediate outrage at the actual comment but then a sense of is this shit ever going to stop. We all have a responsibility to call out stuff we know is not right, from the work place to football grounds.
 
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