Euro 2020 Scotland Vs Czech Republic

CoopBlue said:
My prediction is that England will look to put the game out of sight by half time and then they'll make changes and rest players.
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Think you might well be right. Can see a comfortable 3 nil to be honest. 2 up at half time and a late sickener for drunk Steve and his celtic select xi.
 
CoopBlue said:
For as long as I can remember Scottish football has always been about being "physical", with technical ability, composure on the ball etc being a distant thought.

It continues to be stuck in the dark ages and has made no progression for a reason.

The mentality is all wrong.
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I will agree with you on that. It's a bigger thing than people realise.

There's a reason why Aberdeen etc. can get a result against teams like us, but then play in European qualifiers - where "doing someone" as a marker iisn't allowed - and come unstuck. That is a big mentality shift we need to change. It would have a trickle down effect.

We're still stuck in the past with that rubbish. Dykes today was symptomatic of it.
 
Just back from pub, not seen any comments so here is my take.

They were there for the taking. Gave them too much respect. Our biggest game for 23 years and Clarke shat it. 2 up front and attack them.

McTominay was woeful today so was O'Donnell. What is Marshall doing for the 2nd! Guaranteed he has never! EVER! Been that far up the park in any game he has ever played so wtf is he doing. Ok Hendry should pass out wide but wtf!
 
Vince said:
You have a league setup here that allows players to be kicked all over the place whilst refs just watch. Look at Borna arriving and stating that the Croatian league was more technical. The setup here allows players to steam in - and therefore possession is valued less and the game more hectic as a result.
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But only 2 of the starting 11 play in the Scottish league so that arguement doesn't really stand up.
 
TheDerryend said:
Fair point mate. That could be seen today, it's all about force with scotland, no technical ability to be seen.

I know the 2nd goal was a f**k up, but when I seen that lad have a quick look and the confidence he struck the ball with, I knew it was going in.

I just cant see scotland score a goal like that.
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Not since McFadden v France.
 
prenzlauerbear said:
I will agree with you on that. It's a bigger thing than people realise.

There's a reason why Aberdeen etc. can get a result against teams like us, but then play in European qualifiers - where "doing someone" as a marker iisn't allowed - and come unstuck. That is a big mentality shift we need to change. It would have a trickle down effect.

We're still stuck in the past with that rubbish. Dykes today was symptomatic of it.
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Again how on earth is dykes to blame for the tactics. Its very easy to blame the lad as hes not man city level and isnt going to score the goal of the euros beating 4 men then the keeper.

And part of the reason aberdeen often do well against us is we have the most dishonest, corrupt and sleekit refs in world sport that let them away with as much as possible. Whats their record v the tims ?
 
CoopBlue said:
My prediction is that England will look to put the game out of sight by half time and then they'll make changes and rest players.
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England don’t put any team away by half time unless it’s the likes of San Marino or Andorra they are turgid to watch under Southgate.
 
Vince said:
How many top players is our league producing compared the Croatian league? (with half of our population)
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Agree but the point was about today's game and Scottish football. Most countries at some time have a "golden generation". Croatia have had theirs and are in decline. We've still to discover ours. Just now we're probably at bronze. Our left side defence and midfield could be good but central defence and up front we're at English championship level.
 
prenzlauerbear said:
I will agree with you on that. It's a bigger thing than people realise.

There's a reason why Aberdeen etc. can get a result against teams like us, but then play in European qualifiers - where "doing someone" as a marker iisn't allowed - and come unstuck. That is a big mentality shift we need to change. It would have a trickle down effect.

We're still stuck in the past with that rubbish. Dykes today was symptomatic of it.
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Scottish football is stuck in the 80s - and that includes sections of the support.

There’s a peculiar arrogance. You read on it when people dismiss international football while the rest of the world loves it.

There’s little desire for improvement. To do that requires honesty, work and personal responsibility. It’s not something Scotland is willing to do.

The media response today has exasperated me more than I thought it would.
 
Yosser said:
Agree but the point was about today's game and Scottish football. Most countries at some time have a "golden generation". Croatia have had theirs and are in decline. We've still to discover ours. Just now we're probably at bronze. Our left side defence and midfield could be good but central defence and up front we're at English championship level.
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I don’t expect any golden generation to arrive for us. That‘s never going to happen with our style of play in Scotland. We are nowhere near technical enough. Our manager quickly realised he couldn’t put even a Europa league team together with Scottish players.
 
Watching it back Scotland really just were a poor footballing side. We showed very little composure, struggled to keep the ball and when we did get chances we weren't clinical enough for this level. Czechs on the other hand grew into the game, began to dominate the ball and took their chance well (as well as pull out an absolute wonder strike).

What else to expect really, a Steve Clarke team will play like a Steve Clarke team. He's not a young, dynamic, exciting manager. He'll organise a team to a level and go with what he knows. The entire system is founded on Tierney and Robertson in those positions, no Tierney and he just went with the same system. When it wasn't working he didn't change it.

I'm the same as most. I want to see teams play their best players, their technical exciting players. I'd rather have seen Patterson, Adams, Gilmour, even Turnbull (god help us). Players accustomed to playing with the ball at feet and creating with quick, one touch football. But I doubt Clarke will shift from what he knows and that isn't good enough at this level.
 
We’ve not had the luxury all that often recently, but going from watching a team managed by Gerrard, Gary Mac and Beale to watching that shitshow from Clarke and Carver - you can’t half tell the difference.

Oddly enough, the system we play with the two tens and attacking fullbacks actually suits that Scotland side down to the ground, but it’s so far beyond Clarke that it’s not even funny.
 
BrooklynBlue said:
Scottish football is stuck in the 80s - and that includes sections of the support.

There’s a peculiar arrogance. You read on it when people dismiss international football while the rest of the world loves it.

There’s little desire for improvement. To do that requires honesty, work and personal responsibility. It’s not something Scotland is willing to do.

The media response today has exasperated me more than I thought it would.
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Classic example is that when I was at school in the 80's, the PE teachers were far more interested and enthused by the big lumps who just "got stuck in" and used their physicality.

And they loved and encouraged the midfielders who just dived into slide tackles every 10 seconds.

I can't ever recall any emphasis being put on getting the ball down and playing - making a pass, gaining composure on the ball, shaping to make and receive a pass, moving with the ball and linking play etc.

We've barely moved on from those days.
Other countries continue to be light years ahead in terms of technical ability, intelligence with the ball and mentality.
 
prenzlauerbear said:
Magicdeboer, you claim to have zero interest in Scotland, yet probably have more posts than any other person in this thread. "Nauseating cringe". I would use such terms for your hyperbole.

There is enough talent in this team to not play as we did. That's why it's so frustrating. The inclusion of Dykes makes the tactics lazy. If it was Christie (I know)/Armstrong off Adams with GIlmour in behind, there's enough talent in there to actually play a bit of football and break down teams.
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There is Zero evidence that Scotland have enough talent. If these players were good enough 4 matches against Israel without a win wouldn't be a fact.
Yes we have some decent players but you can never overcome a squad with Hanley, Hendry Forrest , Marshall , Christie , O'Donnell, dykes etc by simply playing Gilmour and Patterson.

We are bang average and out of our depth at this level.
 
CrunchBear said:
Watching it back Scotland really just were a poor footballing side. We showed very little composure, struggled to keep the ball and when we did get chances we weren't clinical enough for this level. Czechs on the other hand grew into the game, began to dominate the ball and took their chance well (as well as pull out an absolute wonder strike).

What else to expect really, a Steve Clarke team will play like a Steve Clarke team. He's not a young, dynamic, exciting manager. He'll organise a team to a level and go with what he knows. The entire system is founded on Tierney and Robertson in those positions, no Tierney and he just went with the same system. When it wasn't working he didn't change it.

I'm the same as most. I want to see teams play their best players, their technical exciting players. I'd rather have seen Patterson, Adams, Gilmour, even Turnbull (god help us). Players accustomed to playing with the ball at feet and creating with quick, one touch football. But I doubt Clarke will shift from what he knows and that isn't good enough at this level.
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Right from the off you just knew I was going to be turgid. All creativity was on the bench and that sums up Clarke for me. As soon as we lost the first goal you knew it was a bigger struggle.

And how in God's name can anyone applaud that team off the park after that performance and result. Oh I forgot it was the eternal losers of the Tranny Army.
 
instructor said:
An even game, 2 average teams, both teams had decent chances, they took 2 and we took 0. I think Dykes is out of his depth at this level, Adams should definitely have started. I think Clarke's subs in the 2nd half were a bit panicky and not needed because we were actually attacking well and creating situations. O'Donnell looked nervous from the start. None of our centre halves look convincing. Nisbet and Adams up front for me, Patterson at right back and Gilmour in midfield. Overall we have too many average players. Realistically we will finish bottom of the group now with probably zero points.
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We'll compete with North Macedonia with the worst record in the tournament. At least they've scored already, we could go 0 points with 0 goals
 
CoopBlue said:
Classic example is that when I was at school in the 80's, the PE teachers were far more interested and enthused by the big lumps who just "got stuck in" and used their physicality.

And they loved and encouraged the midfielders who just dived into slide tackles every 10 seconds.

I can't ever recall any emphasis being put on getting the ball down and playing - making a pass, gaining composure on the ball, shaping to make and receive a pass, moving with the ball and linking play etc.

We've barely moved on from those days.
Other countries continue to be light years ahead in terms of technical ability, intelligence with the ball and mentality.
Click to expand...
The trials for my primary school team in the early 90's involved us all lined up on either side of the pitch hoofing long balls to each other for about 15 minutes solid then one short game... :D
 
DEJA BLUE said:
Scotland were dire today, pedestrian, insipid, defensive display,, very poor, a home game we should have been battering their door down right from the first whistle, we were garbage, and a huge reason was the team line up, I knew he would get it wrong, but to get it wrong with at least 4 players is unreal.
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I take it you weren't too impressed then?
 
CoopBlue said:
Stuff like "definitely heading in right direction" "of course we can win at Wembley" "today the world saw Scotland back at the top table".

Just nauseating cringe with buckets of delusion.

These people also forget about the special 'qualifying route' that Scotland were handed.
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It’s pîsh like this from the Tranny Army that pushes me from feeling indifferent to wanting Scotland to lose. Then I see the Sturgeon photos and I want Scotland to get pumped. The set up photos of her jumping off her seat genuinely make me want to vomit!
I probably shouldn’t have opened this thread and so only have myself to blame!
 
Thornliebank_Bear said:
Again how on earth is dykes to blame for the tactics. Its very easy to blame the lad as hes not man city level and isnt going to score the goal of the euros beating 4 men then the keeper.

And part of the reason aberdeen often do well against us is we have the most dishonest, corrupt and sleekit refs in world sport that let them away with as much as possible. Whats their record v the tims ?
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Dykes isn't even in the right positions to get on the end of things, even when the ball in is dangerous areas. Mate, he has a handful of goals, if that, from open play for QPR. That's not by coincidence. He's a glorified Chris Iwelumo - at least he was actually scoring at that level when we called him up.

BrooklynBlue said:
Scottish football is stuck in the 80s - and that includes sections of the support.

There’s a peculiar arrogance. You read on it when people dismiss international football while the rest of the world loves it.

There’s little desire for improvement. To do that requires honesty, work and personal responsibility. It’s not something Scotland is willing to do.

The media response today has exasperated me more than I thought it would.
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Your fourth paragraph is a really interesting point @BrooklynBlue. It's wound me up too.

It's hard to articulate properly, but I think there's an element of defeatism in that the reaction is microcosmic of the wider mentality. The narrative that this was some kind of unlucky failure - the game could have went either way - is nonsense. It was a complete disaster in the end. We lost the most important game of the group by picking the wrong players. Pure and simple.

It is probably me with both my Scotland and Rangers hat on, but i don't know how you look at that and take any positives. Maybe that's how Hibs fans react when they lose to Aberdeen or the likes on "another day".

It just isn't anywhere near good enough.
 
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Plissken said:
It'll likely be a massacre, Kalvin Phillips will absolutely bully that midfield.
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That's what worries me. As a reluctant part time Hertha fan, I thought McTominay/Mcginn would boss Darida out of the match. He's not a bad player, but is basically the Wes Hoolahan of the Bundesliga — tidy but just isn't physical enough to properly affect games and wildly inconsistent. Instead, he was running it at points. Guys touted for the money that they are need to do better than that.
 
Too bad they passed up the chance to register Tav for Scotland. I guess O'donnell is a better player............sigh.
 
Bigeye said:
Too bad they passed up the chance to register Tav for Scotland. I guess O'donnell is a better player............sigh.
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I don't think there was such a chance. As far as I know, it isn't allowed under the agreement between the UK FAs, which has been ratified by FIFA,

This was a very poor result which has quite possibly put paid to our chances of qualifying from the group.

From a Czech point of view the goals were superb. From our perspective, questions have to be asked about our defenders and goalkeeper.
 
prenzlauerbear said:
That's what worries me. As a reluctant part time Hertha fan, I thought McTominay/Mcginn would boss Darida out of the match. He's not a bad player, but is basically the Wes Hoolahan of the Bundesliga — tidy but just isn't physical enough to properly affect games and wildly inconsistent. Instead, he was running it at points. Guys touted for the money that they are need to do better than that.
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The players' mentality was a big factor today. Instead of seeing this as a chance to be a different Scotland team than previous ones, it seemed like they were all just waiting for the fuckup to happen.

I posted it earlier but that game was there for the taking. Our problem was that in everything we had control of (tactics, intensity, mentality, decision making, etc.) we made the wrong choice.
 
JayDee said:
I don't think there was such a chance. As far as I know, it isn't allowed under the agreement between the UK FAs, which has been ratified by FIFA,

This was a very poor result which has quite possibly put paid to our chances of qualifying from the group.

From a Czech point of view the goals were superb. From our perspective, questions have to be asked about our defenders and goalkeeper.
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How did they sign up Adams ?
 
I would call that a piss poor effort but can anyone be truly surprised? If you are over 50, this is deja vu. Whether its losing to Peru or tying the pathetic Iran in 78, tying against the Russians in 82, The Mexican disaster in 86, bottling it vs tiny Costa Rica in 90, getting wiped out by Morocco in 98 or even the last debacle in Euro 96, its always the same. A team that underperforms even when they have talent, bad goalkeeping, calamities galore and a first round exit. For once can the football gods give us a break? Why cant the stars align for us like they did for Denmark or even just to have some success like Iceland in the last WC?
 
Bigeye said:
Too bad they passed up the chance to register Tav for Scotland. I guess O'donnell is a better player............sigh.
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Never mind Tav - Nathan Patterson is a better player than both!!

When he filled in for Tavernier I honestly couldn’t see how Gerrard could drop him once Tav was fit.

Even if you disagree with that opinion, the one indisputable fact is that Patterson is a better player than O’Donnell and had played at a higher level, including Europe.

The Scotland team is a reflection of the whole country at the moment. Idiots in charge, encouraging other idiots beyond their ability, while the real talent is left to suffer on the sidelines.

But who cares, we’re just one big young team giving it big licks on the wurld stage eh?!

Shower of arseholes.
 
prenzlauerbear said:
Dykes isn't even in the right positions to get on the end of things, even when the ball in is dangerous areas. Mate, he has a handful of goals, if that, from open play for QPR. That's not by coincidence. He's a glorified Chris Iwelumo - at least he was actually scoring at that level when we called him up.



Your fourth paragraph is a really interesting point @BrooklynBlue. It's wound me up too.

It's hard to articulate properly, but I think there's an element of defeatism in that the reaction is microcosmic of the wider mentality. The narrative that this was some kind of unlucky failure - the game could have went either way - is nonsense. It was a complete disaster in the end. We lost the most important game of the group by picking the wrong players. Pure and simple.

It is probably me with both my Scotland and Rangers hat on, but i don't know how you look at that and take any positives. Maybe that's how Hibs fans react when they lose to Aberdeen or the likes on "another day".

It just isn't anywhere near good enough.
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Dykes really is shite though. And he did have a great chance to score and hit a tame effort right at the keeper which summed him up. Add to that he’s supposed to be a physical presence and was beaten time and again.

As someone else said, Clarke stuck an EPL striker on the bench so he could start with a lump of wood who went 4 months without scoring in the championship; the EPL striker eventually came off the bench and looked better than 90% of our team within about 10 minutes on the park. We got what we deserved with Clarke’s prehistoric approach, fùck all. 23 years to get back to a major tournament and we’ve more less cùnted it already, it’s just so Scotland.
 
OohAhHuistra said:
What’s everyone fancying, massive game with best of third places also going through. I’ll go 2-1 Scotland.

I’d go with this 11:
Marshall
Patterson Hanley Cooper Tierney Robertson
McGinn McTominay Armstrong
Adams Dykes
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I’m never putting a prediction again
 
Scaramanga said:
Dykes really is shite though. And he did have a great chance to score and hit a tame effort right at the keeper which summed him up. Add to that he’s supposed to be a physical presence and was beaten time and again.

As someone else said, Clarke stuck an EPL striker on the bench so he could start with a lump of wood who went 4 months without scoring in the championship; the EPL striker eventually came off the bench and looked better than 90% of our team within about 10 minutes on the park. We got what we deserved with Clarke’s prehistoric approach, fùck all. 23 years to get back to a major tournament and we’ve more less cùnted it already, it’s just so Scotland.
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Dykes is actually terrible. We must be the only nation that goes through the hassle of getting a better striker then starting him on the bench
 
OohAhHuistra said:
Dykes is actually terrible. We must be the only nation that goes through the hassle of getting a better striker then starting him on the bench
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Honestly mate, I was losing my nut watching Dykes during that. He just doesn't ever look like scoring. I dont even think he's that good in the air - not to the point of justifying his place.
 
prenzlauerbear said:
Honestly mate, I was losing my nut watching Dykes during that. He just doesn't ever look like scoring. I dont even think he's that good in the air - not to the point of justifying his place.
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Without sounding harsh I don’t know what’s he’s supposed to be good at? He missed a sitter with an attempt more fitting for Sunday league
 
iaatpies said:
He got the best from a very limited Kilmarnock squad. His job wasn't to play pretty football, it was to play effective football. He was very successful at it with Kilmarnock. As a fan it's not the type of football I want to watch and I'd make the same criticism of him that I'd make of other ultra negative managers, but in fairness to him he was doing the job asked of him.

With Scotland it's different. We don't have world beaters but we do have better players than O'Donnell at right wingback and Dykes up front on his own. Christie has had a poor season for Celtic - why was he in the starting 11 at the expense of Che Adams? If he was going to start with Armstrong then club mate Adams would have made more sense because of their familiarity playing together at club level. The 3 keepers all have question marks and its arguable that Zander Clark should have been there ahead of Craig Gordon. Clark has had a decent season and has played top flight football regularly - something that neither Gordon nor McGlaughlin have done this past year.

The biggest criticism of Clarke today is that the 11 he started with wasn't the best 11 available even accounting for the injury to Tierney. Adams and Paterson should have been in the starting 11 and it's arguable that McTomminey could have dropped back to centre half to accommodate Gilmour.

Also arguable that Andy Robertson is a shadow of the club player when he pulls on the Scotland jersey. Sure there's a gulf in class between the quality of his club teammates and international ones, but he still doesnt come anywhere near close to his club quality when playing for Scotland.
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That's easy for you to say...
 
ForGodForCountryForever said:
Granny Strachan provides your comedy fix of the day:-

"It’s worth remembering, though, that had it not been for his penalty save in the play-off against Serbia, Scotland would not even be in this tournament"

If your sides can take it, here's the hot take in full:-

Do. Not. Criticise. Scotland. Ever.
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Christ. Aye Scotland could’ve won we probably played better but not a chance we’ll beat England or qualify yesterday was a must win.
 
Johnny Fontane said:
Nisbet was more of a threat in the 10 minutes he had than Dykes.
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Still riding the wave up here from a couple of good performances against us and Celtic.

A lot of his goals this season were penalties I think. Adams scored about the same number of goals in the Premier League as he didn’t in the Championship. Adams must have been wondering what he signed up for sitting on the bench watching on.
 
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