Taking the knee

[AllyDawson72]

Do people associate it with the organisation who first adopted it? Yes. Of course they do.

Pr disaster.

Do people associate an arm raised out in front of them at a slight angle with the Nazis? Yes of course they do. The nazis don't own that gesture, but it's inextricably linked.

We have people talking about reclaiming the saltire or refusing to wear Scotland tops etc because it's linked to support for the SNP so it'd quite funny how the same people are unable to notice the issues with associated symbolim

The players have already came out and explained that it isn't though. So anyone still correlating the two has an agenda.

I'm at the point where I want the it to stop now. Away games in particular are going to be a shit show. It's sad but we are going to be out on our own with this.

Even if we didnt take the knee there are still too many who would boo players from other teams.

 

[Macdonsj]

So all rangers fans booing are racist?

Are they stupid racists because all the show racism the red card stuff must have went right over their heads.

Everyone talking about people booing and the gesture rather than the actual aims of the gesture is the pr fail genius.

if you boo taking the knee - the wider public see it as being not supporting anti-racism
thats what happened with England fans
its a PR disaster at best
it alienates the sizeable black player contingent we have at the club at worst

 

[Sir Know it All]

I think the majority of Rangers fans and posters on this forum would agree that taking the knee should be binned. But anybody who disagrees with it are “racists” and will keep quiet

In your previous post you said

"As not many will boo in the stadium. I have zero issues with the players making a statement but taking the knee will be forever associated with politics lots of people disagree with."

One of our players has literally said the following words re players taking the knee.

This isn’t about politics it’s about equality!!!

And the post above is what you come out with.... I just don't find what you are saying here very credible to be honest

Making claims of "majority" is just pious bullshit in all honesty, on this particular thread you are very much in a minority, you just happen to be in a minority that is pretty vocal.

 

[G20G72Bear]

Right so our players should stop doing it to not upset the poor wee racists, have I got that right?

The players have specifically told you that this is about racial equality and not politics so anyone booing that will have to face any accusations that come their way.

This is like going round in circles.

Some people don't like a gesture associated with a hateful organisation. Shock.

Why not change the gesture but keep the cause to unite everyone behind it? Isn't that the aim?

 

[swavgav]

Have the players ever came out and distanced themselves from BLM and state they want nothing to do with them as the knee is also an anti racist gesture for them too obviously. This is the problem with choosing the exact same gesture.

Im sure if they have spoke out against BLM and other players of other clubs have too the boo's would stop not just at Ibrox but around all the stadiums in the UK as its not just Rangers fans booing as some would have you believe.

If they have spoke out against BLM and their values send the link over so everyone can see it. Problem solved.

I'm unsure if you and the other brand new posters on this thread are idiots or mischief-making tims but either way the players have categorically stated that they are NOT taking the knee in support of BLM, they are doing it as a symbol to highlight the issue of racism that they and their colleagues continually have to face.

It doesn't matter if idiots out there link the gesture to a political movement. The players have explicitly stated thats not why they are doing it.

Theres no other discussion to be had. They certainly shouldn't be bending to the will of idiots that refuse to listen to what they are saying and can't keep their mouth shut and not boo their own players.

 

[YoungGer97]

Really? Why's that

You think the biggest PR disaster is making racists angry and not our club being nationally disgraced for booing our own team over their attempts to stand up to racial abuse lol

 

[TheDerryend]

Take your disappointment and ram it.

F**k me, that's a disappointing reply.

 

[Teddyjohn]

Are people talking about actual issues or debating whether people should boo and if they are racist for doing so?

What has it achieved? Nothing. It's an empty gesture

Whether fans think it’s an empty gesture or not, our players want to do it and we should support them. You can disagree with it but still have enough respect to stand quiet for all of the five seconds it takes. Any grown adult that can’t keep their mouth shut for that has something seriously wrong with them.

 

[RickDagless]

How many times did you see this pre 2016? I was born in the 80s and had never seen it before.

It's not our fault you haven't seen evidence and facts mate.

 

[G20G72Bear]

Something like this you mean?

"Let’s try again. The hate and ignorance in the comments of the last picture were disgusting but not surprising. This isn’t about politics it’s about equality!!! We all need educating, myself included!"

What picture? What you on about?

"This isn't about politics, it's about equality, therefore we will adopt a new gesture that isn't linked to a politics so everyone can get behind it"

That would be ridiculous though ^^. Would never work......

 

[Burnbrae]

No i dont. Why do you think people boo taking the knee? If all the players stood or held a card or banner i would bet my life on not one single person booing the players. It needs changed the symbol is too devisive as this thread proves.

Are you really telling black people how they should protest? Really?

 

[RangersCrest1872]

I'm unsure if you and the other brand new posters on this thread are idiots or mischief-making tims but either way the players have categorically stated that they are NOT taking the knee in support of BLM, they are doing it as a symbol to highlight the issue of racism that they and their colleagues continually have to face.

It doesn't matter if idiots out there link the gesture to a political movement. The players have explicitly stated thats not why they are doing it.

Theres no other discussion to be had. They certainly shouldn't be bending to the will of idiots that refuse to listen to what they are saying and can't keep their mouth shut and not boo their own players.

Can you link us to the players saying they dont support BLM? Ive totally missed that.

Also new posters must be tims if their views dont agree with yours? Isnt that what the left do? You dont agree with them and your labelled a derogatory term like fascist and nazi or in your case tim? We are better than that!

 

[RickDagless]

This place is beginning to reek of gammon.

 

[Sir Know it All]

What picture? What you on about?

"This isn't about politics, it's about equality, therefore we will adopt a new gesture that isn't linked to a politics so everyone can get behind it"

That would be ridiculous though ^^. Would never work......

It was an image Goldson posted of him taking the knee , and correct your suggestion is ridiculous and would never work.

 

[G20G72Bear]

Did you read the article? No, thought not

Anyway, Goldson has told you. If you dont believe him knock yourself out

The article which you stated had incorrect info? Nope, I didn't.

https://blacklivesmatter.com/herstory/?__cf_chl_jschl_tk__=pmd_cd30f38f7e313806ca0885bf1ecb6fea97ed95df-1627563424-0-gqNtZGzNAg2jcnBszQk6

Creating strawman arguements using goldson though, cracking tactic to prove your point. I'm sold.

 

[Macdonsj]

No i dont. Why do you think people boo taking the knee? If all the players stood or held a card or banner i would bet my life on not one single person booing the players. It needs changed the symbol is too devisive as this thread proves.

they sometimes do hold a banner on a specific day, maybe wear a t-shirt
once that game passed it was forgotten about

taking the knee is in the public eye, its spoken about
people are not being arrested for social media racism, banning orders dished out etc etc
that has to be in part down to a consistent message & keeping it focussed

 

[Bluenose1979]

Are people talking about actual issues or debating whether people should boo and if they are racist for doing so?

What has it achieved? Nothing. It's an empty gesture

People are clearly talking about racist attitudes, pointing out the ongoing racism our players endure and specifically the aims of the players choosing to take the knee.

The barrier to it making a difference appears to be people doing everything in their power to deflect the specified message our own players have stated they are sending with the gesture in order to conflate things and attach it to something else in order to villify it or subdue the message they are openly trying to send.

When folk on here, having been repeatedly shown the quotes from our players on why they are doing it, still persist with putting it down because of how they want to keep it pinned to a more controversial movement specifically in order to argue it shouldn't be supported then I think the problem is quite obviously with what folk want this debate to be about and not what it should be about. That's a choice, not something inflicted on them.

Debate about the best way to tackle racism can be had, but it's not exclusive nor need it be exclusive to opening eyes to the bottom line.

Our players take the knee in the name of racial equality alone and in order to continue to highlight the problem - that's it, nothing else. We can support them in that while the other debates around how we tackle it go on or not.

 

[Murray the Bear]

We will have to agree to disagree on that. Myself and 100s of millions of others around the world see the gesture as linked to the tarnished BLM movement. That’s never going to change now.

you can believe I am wrong about this but you can’t claim that the sentiment doesn’t exist.

so then the question is what do we do about that sentiment.

It must be comforting to know you are supported by so many like-minded folk

 

[Al Needham Loyal]

Have the players ever came out and distanced themselves from BLM and state they want nothing to do with them as the knee is also an anti racist gesture for them too obviously. This is the problem with choosing the exact same gesture.

Im sure if they have spoke out against BLM and other players of other clubs have too the boo's would stop not just at Ibrox but around all the stadiums in the UK as its not just Rangers fans booing as some would have you believe.

If they have spoke out against BLM and their values send the link over so everyone can see it. Problem solved.

Why do they have to justify themselves to you when they've already explicitly said its not political?

Either accept what Connor Goldson has said on the matter a year ago or fućk off elsewhere instead of bringing the same point up repeatedly.

 

[Teddyjohn]

You think the biggest PR disaster is making racists angry and not our club being nationally disgraced for booing our own team over their attempts to stand up to racial abuse lol

I’ve seen two different posters on here compare our players to Nazi’s saluting in the past 24 hours. It’s frightening.

 

[Al Needham Loyal]

You are a crank.

So far you want to drown folk in the Clyde, stand in the centre circle at Ibrox and call everyone c*nuts!!

Lolz

Nah, just the selfish cünts who continually malign our club.

 

[Drumchapel-Bear]

20 pages of people arguing when nobody on here has even said they will boo from what I have seen! Deary me.

 

[Al Needham Loyal]

F**k me, that's a disappointing reply.

Again, I refer you to the previous response.

 

[Gary]

I was thinking why aren't admin deleting this thread, but then I realised it actually represents our fan base quite well.

The vast majority are normal folk who support our players in this, it's a loud minority who are making themselves look daft here. It's actually good that most of us see it for what it is and shows how we have matured as a support over the years in my opinion. We need to box clever and not leave open goals for others.

Society has moved on, and so should we.

 

[G20G72Bear]

The players have already came out and explained that it isn't though. So anyone still correlating the two has an agenda.

I'm at the point where I want the it to stop now. Away games in particular are going to be a shit show. It's sad but we are going to be out on our own with this.

Even if we didnt take the knee there are still too many who would boo players from other teams.

The players can't change the history of the gesture, that's the point. Again, I'll go back to the Nazi salute, if someone started doing it but said it's nothing about Nazis but rather "insert good cause", would that be acceptable? Of course not.

As I said before, I'll never boo the players regardless, they are rangers players and I'll back them regardless. But that doesn't stop me wishing they'd stop it. I thought it was clever, smart PR and actually effective when they stopped taking the knee post slavia Prague. It highlighted the hypocrisy of the organisations who support the gesture in a hollow manner without doing anything to change their own behaviours (FIFA supporting the WC in Qatar for example where there's effective slave labour).

Genuine question. If the players stood before the game, arms linked on the centre circle and the announcer said the players are taking a stand against racism. Do you think there would be one single boo from anyone? I don't, I think it would get cheered/clapped without exception.

 

[B Ferguson 6]

20 pages of people arguing when nobody on here has even said they will boo from what I have seen! Deary me.

I think booing at the weekend is inevitable sadly.

I was at Brighton on Saturday and there were definitely people booing and from what people have said Sunday was the same.

 

[DeeCeeTee]

Why do they have to justify themselves to you when they've already explicitly said its not political?

Either accept what Connor Goldson has said on the matter a year ago or fućk off elsewhere instead of bringing the same point up repeatedly.

You know, if Goldson doesn’t renew his contract and mentioned Rangers fans racially abusing him and fans booing as being the reason why, I wouldn’t be in the slightest bit surprised. And somehow he would be the bad guy or talking shite according to some.

 

[Bluenose1979]

The players can't change the history of the gesture, that's the point. Again, I'll go back to the Nazi salute, if someone started doing it but said it's nothing about Nazis but rather "insert good cause", would that be acceptable? Of course not.

As I said before, I'll never boo the players regardless, they are rangers players and I'll back them regardless. But that doesn't stop me wishing they'd stop it. I thought it was clever, smart PR and actually effective when they stopped taking the knee post slavia Prague. It highlighted the hypocrisy of the organisations who support the gesture in a hollow manner without doing anything to change their own behaviours (FIFA supporting the WC in Qatar for example where there's effective slave labour).

Genuine question. If the players stood before the game, arms linked on the centre circle and the announcer said the players are taking a stand against racism. Do you think there would be one single boo from anyone? I don't, I think it would get cheered/clapped without exception.

There'd be c@nts on here accusing them of doing a huddle going by some folks' attitudes.

 

[SilvioBerlusconi]

if you’re booing our players before a match, you couldn’t give two hoots about Rangers.

Saddos who believe they are on the frontline of a “culture war”. Grow up.

Spot on

 

[G20G72Bear]

if you boo taking the knee - the wider public see it as being not supporting anti-racism
thats what happened with England fans
its a PR disaster at best
it alienates the sizeable black player contingent we have at the club at worst

I agree, that's why I'd never boo it. Some people will boo it without considering the optics of doing so, but they won't be booing it because they're racist.

That's why it's a pr disaster for all.

For the movement it alienates support in some sections and distracts from the real issue with all this kind of chat

For the players and club, it can be spun as racists in the crowd booing their own players

That's why I can't understand the need to revert back to it after we'd ditched it after slavia Prague

 

[Drumchapel-Bear]

I think booing at the weekend is inevitable sadly.

I was at Brighton on Saturday and there were definitely people booing and from what people have said Sunday was the same.

There will be booing on Saturday, guaranteed. No point in arguing about it on here though is there when there's not anyone on here who has come out and said they will boo?

 

[G20G72Bear]

You think the biggest PR disaster is making racists angry and not our club being nationally disgraced for booing our own team over their attempts to stand up to racial abuse lol

Yes because that's I said. Spot on.

A movement to unite people behind anti racism causes, alienating people who aren't racists because of the gesture they've chosen to adopt. Yes, I believe that's a huge PR disaster.

 

[Sir Know it All]

Genuine question. If the players stood before the game, arms linked on the centre circle and the announcer said the players are taking a stand against racism. Do you think there would be one single boo from anyone? I don't, I think it would get cheered/clapped without exception.

Genuine reply,

The players have literally explained why they do what they currently do so why are the words of an announcer more credible than the words of players

 

[Macdonsj]

The players can't change the history of the gesture, that's the point. Again, I'll go back to the Nazi salute, if someone started doing it but said it's nothing about Nazis but rather "insert good cause", would that be acceptable? Of course not.

As I said before, I'll never boo the players regardless, they are rangers players and I'll back them regardless. But that doesn't stop me wishing they'd stop it. I thought it was clever, smart PR and actually effective when they stopped taking the knee post slavia Prague. It highlighted the hypocrisy of the organisations who support the gesture in a hollow manner without doing anything to change their own behaviours (FIFA supporting the WC in Qatar for example where there's effective slave labour).

Genuine question. If the players stood before the game, arms linked on the centre circle and the announcer said the players are taking a stand against racism. Do you think there would be one single boo from anyone? I don't, I think it would get cheered/clapped without exception.

they stopped taking the knee right after Prague
and UEFA still didn't do enough - it achieved nothing in reality

the players seem to have decided to go back to taking the knee so thats their choice
they've stated its not for the BLM movement but rather the blacklivesmatter message

glad you aren't booing, nobody is asking anyone to go all in and support it
just don't embarass the club & upset the black players by booing

 

[Murray the Bear]

I think the majority of Rangers fans and posters on this forum would agree that taking the knee should be binned. But anybody who disagrees with it are “racists” and will keep quiet

Why do folk with the more right wing opinions always seem to think they represent the majority ? A quick scan of this thread would suggest otherwise. By far the most reasonable and intelligent posts back the players though some sadly are giving up the will to live. The England fans who booed their players at the Euros were widely condemned across the UK and that was and remains the popular position. Have our booers learned nothing from that experience?

 

[Teddyjohn]

There will be booing on Saturday, guaranteed. No point in arguing about it on here though is there when there's not anyone on here who has come out and said they will boo?

There’s been plenty who say they won’t be but strangely they support the right to boo. There have also been some others who have admitted they’ll boo.

One guy earlier was on a crusade against the politicisation of football and wants to protect his son’s freedom, or some shite like that.

 

[B Ferguson 6]

I agree, that's why I'd never boo it. Some people will boo it without considering the optics of doing so, but they won't be booing it because they're racist.

That's why it's a pr disaster for all.

For the movement it alienates support in some sections and distracts from the real issue with all this kind of chat

For the players and club, it can be spun as racists in the crowd booing their own players

That's why I can't understand the need to revert back to it after we'd ditched it after slavia Prague

If the people booing it are genuinely doing it because their so against the BLM movement then they should maybe mobilise themselves against the organisation in a better way than booing a team of Rangers players that because of what they’ve done will be legends forever.

I imagine if you look about the people booing on Saturday you’ll see the same ones doing the “red hand salute” when rule Britannia gets sung.

 

[G20G72Bear]

Whether fans think it’s an empty gesture or not, our players want to do it and we should support them. You can disagree with it but still have enough respect to stand quiet for all of the five seconds it takes. Any grown adult that can’t keep their mouth shut for that has something seriously wrong with them.

As I did do at Brighton and Real Madrid. I've no intention of booing it.

The point being, it's a distraction now, it takes away from the cause.

I also think it's quite disgusting the way several posters on here either explicitly or implicitly call other fans racist because they have a difference of opinion on a gesture.

 

[YoungGer97]

Yes because that's I said. Spot on.

A movement to unite people behind anti racism causes, alienating people who aren't racists because of the gesture they've chosen to adopt. Yes, I believe that's a huge PR disaster.

Which is why i said calling this take delusional would be an understatement, because its beyond delusional.

Anyway, is there any particular reason why 95% of your posts on FF ever have been on this thread?

 

[G20G72Bear]

It's not our fault you haven't seen evidence and facts mate.

Show me some then. Show me some evidence of this being a widely known gesture in pop culture in the 90s and 00s. I'll be interested to see.

 

[B Ferguson 6]

There will be booing on Saturday, guaranteed. No point in arguing about it on here though is there when there's not anyone on here who has come out and said they will boo?

It’s a Rangers message board for people to fling opinions about.

you must have been in plenty of hypothetical arguments on here : )

 

[Robocop1977]

There’s been plenty who say they won’t be but strangely they support the right to boo. There have also been some others who have admitted they’ll boo.

One guy earlier was on a crusade against the politicisation of football and wants to protect his son’s freedom, or some shite like that.

Call them out, who on here said they would?

 

[Teddyjohn]

As I did do at Brighton and Real Madrid. I've no intention of booing it.

The point being, it's a distraction now, it takes away from the cause.

I also think it's quite disgusting the way several posters on here either explicitly or implicitly call other fans racist because they have a difference of opinion on a gesture.

I don’t think disagreeing with it is racist in the slightest but if someone is that wound up by a 5 second gesture that our players have stated is to fight racism that they then boo their own players then that person can’t really complain when people call them racist themselves.

 

[G20G72Bear]

It was an image Goldson posted of him taking the knee , and correct your suggestion is ridiculous and would never work.

Show racism the red card never worked?

What about players like wilf zaha who disagree with the knee gesture? Are they wrong? Is he racist because my opinion mirrors mine exactly

 

[Drumchapel-Bear]

I don’t think disagreeing with it is racist in the slightest but if someone is that wound up by a 5 second gesture that our players have stated is to fight racism that they then boo their own players then that person can’t really complain when people call them racist themselves.

What if it's a Black Man in our support who boos it?

 

[Sir Know it All]

As I did do at Brighton and Real Madrid. I've no intention of booing it.

The point being, it's a distraction now, it takes away from the cause.

I also think it's quite disgusting the way several posters on here either explicitly or implicitly call other fans racist because they have a difference of opinion on a gesture.

Because it's silly to have a different opinion on the gesture when players have literally explained the meaning behind them doing it....

 

[Teddyjohn]

Call them out, who on here said they would?

On the previous thread yesterday, the guy who said our players are no better than Nazi’s saluting. The poster Islander earlier that went on rants about politics having nothing to do with football and therefore it was his right to boo it.

 

[Robocop1977]

On the previous thread yesterday, the guy who said our players are no better than Nazi’s saluting. The poster Islander earlier that went on rants about politics having nothing to do with football and therefore it was his right to boo it.

Fair do's, thanks

 

[Macdonsj]

As I did do at Brighton and Real Madrid. I've no intention of booing it.

The point being, it's a distraction now, it takes away from the cause.

I also think it's quite disgusting the way several posters on here either explicitly or implicitly call other fans racist because they have a difference of opinion on a gesture.

nobody can say for sure if every booing person is a racist

but 100% of them are painting the club in a bad light
and will damage the public image of the club

 

[Teddyjohn]

What if it's a Black Man in our support who boos it?

The same as if it’s a white person that boos it.