2 team league, 1 has 7year & multi million pound headstart

L

luckywhitefeather

Well-Known Member
we were brutal today , no hiding that , Terrible passing , decision making and players not showing enough with a complete distaster of a youth coach in charge

However, the context of where we are , the reality of what rangers are going to have to overcome can’t be overlooked

All things being equal the team with the better players will usually win the games, titles and trophies. The tims have simply better players.

Whats going to change that in our favour is time, proper football management and I’m afraid a lot more money

Due to David Murray’s disastrous stewardship which enabled the Whyte / greens era we have given the tims at least a seven year headstart in terms of settled squad , performance / standard levels ,the habit of winning trophies, not withstanding the huge (x3 wage bill differential this season!! ), monopoly over the champions league money / carrot to attract players

We were in the 4th tier of Scottish football, let’s not forget that,..our best players left us and we had a transfer ban, we then wasted seasons under the mismanagement of mccoist failing to have any long term player plan Or carefully introduce / build up youth in those lower leagues (that’s not even talking about all the off field / sports direct issues, distractions & where the money was going / how mccoist actually spent the money on players, what we got in return from most of them....just wasted years and money lost

We then, in echoes of the tims in the early 90s, starting going through managers as first the challenge of getting into premiership / then once back, how to chase down / try and compete with the team that has been coasting along picking up titles , champions league money with a squad that Lennon built and then they even had the luxury of the Ronnie dialup experiment safe in the knowledge they could afford to give it a whirl as they knew they could still had enough / outspending to win the league anyway such was the gap. Then now throwing money at Rodgers , his staff and big investment in player recruitment & wages far outwith the rest of the league can think about. (Compare the bench / qualify level they could bring on today / or at Ibrox few weeks back versus what we’ve currently got)

Last season we finished 3rd, 39 points behind, to think that finish can be swung around without millions being spent, which we don’t have!!, in just a year is crazy talk, nor does it take into consideration it would require a complete disaster / internal implosion by the tims to happen (much like mourinho at Chelsea or dare I say Smith’s failed 10 in a row season when team ran out gas, player recruitment / management was misjudged )

It’s also very unlikely we can win the league next season either and that’s before s balls kicked due to the rebuilding job / player change & money required to be found (again all measured against / financial proportionality the tims can / need to invest (& what they are saving for when our real change materialises.

When Dave king was taking about a manager and immediate success he was sadly talking out of turn, placing a completely unfair marker down for a measurement that can’t possibly be achieved in one season given the headstart the other mob have been given.

It’s also a terrible example with the pressure applied to the next manager with it’s unrealistic / dangerous expectation level for the supporter base to be fed

Going back to the early 90s when we were the all conquering champions, the cream of the players , the champions league money & attention whilst they couldn’t even qualify for Europe from league position and were eyeing up a cambuslsng stadium move & our title challenge was from Aberdeen, Motherwell and Hibs...that wasn’t ended by Wim Jansen turning up our the blue. It required a squad to be build up and the gap that existed to be narrowed down each season

Rangers need to be much more open and educate the fanbase of where we find ourselves in light of the financial disparity that exists versus the squad level of the team we need to beat .

The club needs to get the fans onboard with some brutal honesty that’s its going to take time , patience and I’m afraid moments of more frustration and defeat in seasons ahead are probably going to happen as we seek to claw back our position

We are going to require a ‘project’ manager (unless some Middle East country wishes to divest billions of oil money into a Scottish football team and we can outspend / make up the squad value difference in one season !) and for the support to be working on a different performance barometer to which we were used to.

Sustained incremental advances & under a financially responsible spending / investment programme over the next few seasons is the only sensible approach the club & new manager can hope to implement in order for us to win our next league title.

We need the support to really understand and acknowledge the financial reality we are working under
 
It's a one team league, with the rest making up a piss poor league.
No more excuses, we need to step things up big time.
 
luckywhitefeather said:
we were brutal today , no hiding that , Terrible passing , decision making and players not showing enough with a complete distaster of a youth coach in charge

However, the context of where we are , the reality of what rangers are going to have to overcome can’t be overlooked

All things being equal the team with the better players will usually win the games, titles and trophies. The tims have simply better players.

Whats going to change that in our favour is time, proper football management and I’m afraid a lot more money

Due to David Murray’s disastrous stewardship which enabled the Whyte / greens era we have given the tims at least a seven year headstart in terms of settled squad , performance / standard levels ,the habit of winning trophies, not withstanding the huge (x3 wage bill differential this season!! ), monopoly over the champions league money / carrot to attract players

We were in the 4th tier of Scottish football, let’s not forget that,..our best players left us and we had a transfer ban, we then wasted seasons under the mismanagement of mccoist failing to have any long term player plan Or carefully introduce / build up youth in those lower leagues (that’s not even talking about all the off field / sports direct issues, distractions & where the money was going / how mccoist actually spent the money on players, what we got in return from most of them....just wasted years and money lost

We then, in echoes of the tims in the early 90s, starting going through managers as first the challenge of getting into premiership / then once back, how to chase down / try and compete with the team that has been coasting along picking up titles , champions league money with a squad that Lennon built and then they even had the luxury of the Ronnie dialup experiment safe in the knowledge they could afford to give it a whirl as they knew they could still had enough / outspending to win the league anyway such was the gap. Then now throwing money at Rodgers , his staff and big investment in player recruitment & wages far outwith the rest of the league can think about. (Compare the bench / qualify level they could bring on today / or at Ibrox few weeks back versus what we’ve currently got)

Last season we finished 3rd, 39 points behind, to think that finish can be swung around without millions being spent, which we don’t have!!, in just a year is crazy talk, nor does it take into consideration it would require a complete disaster / internal implosion by the tims to happen (much like mourinho at Chelsea or dare I say Smith’s failed 10 in a row season when team ran out gas, player recruitment / management was misjudged )

It’s also very unlikely we can win the league next season either and that’s before s balls kicked due to the rebuilding job / player change & money required to be found (again all measured against / financial proportionality the tims can / need to invest (& what they are saving for when our real change materialises.

When Dave king was taking about a manager and immediate success he was sadly talking out of turn, placing a completely unfair marker down for a measurement that can’t possibly be achieved in one season given the headstart the other mob have been given.

It’s also a terrible example with the pressure applied to the next manager with it’s unrealistic / dangerous expectation level for the supporter base to be fed

Going back to the early 90s when we were the all conquering champions, the cream of the players , the champions league money & attention whilst they couldn’t even qualify for Europe from league position and were eyeing up a cambuslsng stadium move & our title challenge was from Aberdeen, Motherwell and Hibs...that wasn’t ended by Wim Jansen turning up our the blue. It required a squad to be build up and the gap that existed to be narrowed down each season

Rangers need to be much more open and educate the fanbase of where we find ourselves in light of the financial disparity that exists versus the squad level of the team we need to beat .

The club needs to get the fans onboard with some brutal honesty that’s its going to take time , patience and I’m afraid moments of more frustration and defeat in seasons ahead are probably going to happen as we seek to claw back our position

We are going to require a ‘project’ manager (unless some Middle East country wishes to divest billions of oil money into a Scottish football team and we can outspend / make up the squad value difference in one season !) and for the support to be working on a different performance barometer to which we were used to.

Sustained incremental advances & under a financially responsible spending / investment programme over the next few seasons is the only sensible approach the club & new manager can hope to implement in order for us to win our next league title.

We need the support to really understand and acknowledge the financial reality we are working under
Click to expand...

Hard to argue any of the above is wrong.

Wish it was but it isn’t.
 
luckywhitefeather said:
we were brutal today , no hiding that , Terrible passing , decision making and players not showing enough with a complete distaster of a youth coach in charge

However, the context of where we are , the reality of what rangers are going to have to overcome can’t be overlooked

All things being equal the team with the better players will usually win the games, titles and trophies. The tims have simply better players.

Whats going to change that in our favour is time, proper football management and I’m afraid a lot more money

Due to David Murray’s disastrous stewardship which enabled the Whyte / greens era we have given the tims at least a seven year headstart in terms of settled squad , performance / standard levels ,the habit of winning trophies, not withstanding the huge (x3 wage bill differential this season!! ), monopoly over the champions league money / carrot to attract players

We were in the 4th tier of Scottish football, let’s not forget that,..our best players left us and we had a transfer ban, we then wasted seasons under the mismanagement of mccoist failing to have any long term player plan Or carefully introduce / build up youth in those lower leagues (that’s not even talking about all the off field / sports direct issues, distractions & where the money was going / how mccoist actually spent the money on players, what we got in return from most of them....just wasted years and money lost

We then, in echoes of the tims in the early 90s, starting going through managers as first the challenge of getting into premiership / then once back, how to chase down / try and compete with the team that has been coasting along picking up titles , champions league money with a squad that Lennon built and then they even had the luxury of the Ronnie dialup experiment safe in the knowledge they could afford to give it a whirl as they knew they could still had enough / outspending to win the league anyway such was the gap. Then now throwing money at Rodgers , his staff and big investment in player recruitment & wages far outwith the rest of the league can think about. (Compare the bench / qualify level they could bring on today / or at Ibrox few weeks back versus what we’ve currently got)

Last season we finished 3rd, 39 points behind, to think that finish can be swung around without millions being spent, which we don’t have!!, in just a year is crazy talk, nor does it take into consideration it would require a complete disaster / internal implosion by the tims to happen (much like mourinho at Chelsea or dare I say Smith’s failed 10 in a row season when team ran out gas, player recruitment / management was misjudged )

It’s also very unlikely we can win the league next season either and that’s before s balls kicked due to the rebuilding job / player change & money required to be found (again all measured against / financial proportionality the tims can / need to invest (& what they are saving for when our real change materialises.

When Dave king was taking about a manager and immediate success he was sadly talking out of turn, placing a completely unfair marker down for a measurement that can’t possibly be achieved in one season given the headstart the other mob have been given.

It’s also a terrible example with the pressure applied to the next manager with it’s unrealistic / dangerous expectation level for the supporter base to be fed

Going back to the early 90s when we were the all conquering champions, the cream of the players , the champions league money & attention whilst they couldn’t even qualify for Europe from league position and were eyeing up a cambuslsng stadium move & our title challenge was from Aberdeen, Motherwell and Hibs...that wasn’t ended by Wim Jansen turning up our the blue. It required a squad to be build up and the gap that existed to be narrowed down each season

Rangers need to be much more open and educate the fanbase of where we find ourselves in light of the financial disparity that exists versus the squad level of the team we need to beat .

The club needs to get the fans onboard with some brutal honesty that’s its going to take time , patience and I’m afraid moments of more frustration and defeat in seasons ahead are probably going to happen as we seek to claw back our position

We are going to require a ‘project’ manager (unless some Middle East country wishes to divest billions of oil money into a Scottish football team and we can outspend / make up the squad value difference in one season !) and for the support to be working on a different performance barometer to which we were used to.

Sustained incremental advances & under a financially responsible spending / investment programme over the next few seasons is the only sensible approach the club & new manager can hope to implement in order for us to win our next league title.

We need the support to really understand and acknowledge the financial reality we are working under
Click to expand...

No sure if i agree with you about lots of money. Think Clark, think Killy.
 
We will need a new Board before turning things around, the current incumbents have shown multiple times now they have no idea what they are doing on the football side.
 
What you saw today was a team worth 7 to 8m to one that was assembled for 30m and has played together on a constant high level for the best part of two seasons. If you let them play like we did today, they'll tear you (and anyone else in this country) apart.

No matter how much we lament our own shortcomings. The world does not solely revolve around us.
 
luckywhitefeather said:
we were brutal today , no hiding that , Terrible passing , decision making and players not showing enough with a complete distaster of a youth coach in charge

However, the context of where we are , the reality of what rangers are going to have to overcome can’t be overlooked

All things being equal the team with the better players will usually win the games, titles and trophies. The tims have simply better players.

Whats going to change that in our favour is time, proper football management and I’m afraid a lot more money

Due to David Murray’s disastrous stewardship which enabled the Whyte / greens era we have given the tims at least a seven year headstart in terms of settled squad , performance / standard levels ,the habit of winning trophies, not withstanding the huge (x3 wage bill differential this season!! ), monopoly over the champions league money / carrot to attract players

We were in the 4th tier of Scottish football, let’s not forget that,..our best players left us and we had a transfer ban, we then wasted seasons under the mismanagement of mccoist failing to have any long term player plan Or carefully introduce / build up youth in those lower leagues (that’s not even talking about all the off field / sports direct issues, distractions & where the money was going / how mccoist actually spent the money on players, what we got in return from most of them....just wasted years and money lost

We then, in echoes of the tims in the early 90s, starting going through managers as first the challenge of getting into premiership / then once back, how to chase down / try and compete with the team that has been coasting along picking up titles , champions league money with a squad that Lennon built and then they even had the luxury of the Ronnie dialup experiment safe in the knowledge they could afford to give it a whirl as they knew they could still had enough / outspending to win the league anyway such was the gap. Then now throwing money at Rodgers , his staff and big investment in player recruitment & wages far outwith the rest of the league can think about. (Compare the bench / qualify level they could bring on today / or at Ibrox few weeks back versus what we’ve currently got)

Last season we finished 3rd, 39 points behind, to think that finish can be swung around without millions being spent, which we don’t have!!, in just a year is crazy talk, nor does it take into consideration it would require a complete disaster / internal implosion by the tims to happen (much like mourinho at Chelsea or dare I say Smith’s failed 10 in a row season when team ran out gas, player recruitment / management was misjudged )

It’s also very unlikely we can win the league next season either and that’s before s balls kicked due to the rebuilding job / player change & money required to be found (again all measured against / financial proportionality the tims can / need to invest (& what they are saving for when our real change materialises.

When Dave king was taking about a manager and immediate success he was sadly talking out of turn, placing a completely unfair marker down for a measurement that can’t possibly be achieved in one season given the headstart the other mob have been given.

It’s also a terrible example with the pressure applied to the next manager with it’s unrealistic / dangerous expectation level for the supporter base to be fed

Going back to the early 90s when we were the all conquering champions, the cream of the players , the champions league money & attention whilst they couldn’t even qualify for Europe from league position and were eyeing up a cambuslsng stadium move & our title challenge was from Aberdeen, Motherwell and Hibs...that wasn’t ended by Wim Jansen turning up our the blue. It required a squad to be build up and the gap that existed to be narrowed down each season

Rangers need to be much more open and educate the fanbase of where we find ourselves in light of the financial disparity that exists versus the squad level of the team we need to beat .

The club needs to get the fans onboard with some brutal honesty that’s its going to take time , patience and I’m afraid moments of more frustration and defeat in seasons ahead are probably going to happen as we seek to claw back our position

We are going to require a ‘project’ manager (unless some Middle East country wishes to divest billions of oil money into a Scottish football team and we can outspend / make up the squad value difference in one season !) and for the support to be working on a different performance barometer to which we were used to.

Sustained incremental advances & under a financially responsible spending / investment programme over the next few seasons is the only sensible approach the club & new manager can hope to implement in order for us to win our next league title.

We need the support to really understand and acknowledge the financial reality we are working under
Click to expand...
I agree except for the youth building from the lower leagues, that would have taken even longer and we weren’t blessed with a great core of youth at that time.
 
thetoptier said:
what's happened is

we've appointed abysmal managers and allowed them to waste millions on dross

our executive's decisions have been atrocious
Click to expand...

The O/P is pointing out the facts which bluntly we all know. In my view whilst I’m grateful to King & the 3 bears they did their bit now we need people who can pick a manager, who can fund him and who can and will stand up for the club and the fans.

I see no sign of any of that sadly.
 
Foolback said:
No sure if i agree with you about lots of money. Think Clark, think Killy.
Click to expand...

Kilmarnock are never going to be title challengers and if they don't win 3 games in a row there's not 50,000+ fans calling for the manager to be sacked.


No T in Mikhailichenko said:
I agree except for the youth building from the lower leagues, that would have taken even longer and we weren’t blessed with a great core of youth at that time.
Click to expand...

Look at the money we wasted on the likes of Ian Black, Jon Daly, Sandaza etc. Madness.
 
Calling it a two-team league implies there's competition there, which there isn't. Even in the early 80s I can't remember us being this far off the pace with little hope of making it up, and suffering so many embarrassing humpings into the bargain. Short of a rich sugar-daddy appearing with pots of money to piss away (which is not going to happen) I don't see this ending any time soon. We are now where the scum wanted us to be in 2012, in the same league but offering no serious competition to them and there to be shafted in almost every game. Utterly depressing.
 
I think King and the board probably realise it, but they can't say it or risk season ticket revenue crashing.

Actually, reading the posts on here,King & the Board get more abuse for not working instamiracles than Murray, Whyte or Green when they were attempting to bury us.

Folk continually under-estimate the impact of year on year getting thrashed in the Champions League makes to their bottom line and to the players they seem able to get in.

We need a serious injection of cash in the form of a share issue, and a huge bump in merchandising but at best that gets us one year of financial parity - so we really need to use it wisely.

As much as I hate to say it, looking at the results Aberdeen and Motherwell achieve in the SPL, it makes me think we might need to abandon football and just build a better version of that mould. Bully the diddy teams and make OF games distinctly unpleasant (much like we find playing Motherwell). It's a blueprint that can be implemented quickly and you can find really big, powerful players cheaper than skilful ones.
 
While I recognise this post is well thought out,articulate and accurate,I`m afraid I find nothing in this particular comfort blanket.
 
dt17 said:
Kilmarnock are never going to be title challengers and if they don't win 3 games in a row there's not 50,000+ fans calling for the manager to be sacked.




Look at the money we wasted on the likes of Ian Black, Jon Daly, Sandaza etc. Madness.
Click to expand...

Since his appointment they would be. If Clark hasn't lost three games with Killy then he most certainly would not lose three games with us. I predict now and you can hold me to this if it occurs that he will be a revelation if he becomes our manager.
 
chrisgers said:
I think King and the board probably realise it, but they can't say it or risk season ticket revenue crashing.

Actually, reading the posts on here,King & the Board get more abuse for not working instamiracles than Murray, Whyte or Green when they were attempting to bury us.

Folk continually under-estimate the impact of year on year getting thrashed in the Champions League makes to their bottom line and to the players they seem able to get in.

We need a serious injection of cash in the form of a share issue, and a huge bump in merchandising but at best that gets us one year of financial parity - so we really need to use it wisely.

As much as I hate to say it, looking at the results Aberdeen and Motherwell achieve in the SPL, it makes me think we might need to abandon football and just build a better version of that mould. Bully the diddy teams and make OF games distinctly unpleasant (much like we find playing Motherwell). It's a blueprint that can be implemented quickly and you can find really big, powerful players cheaper than skilful ones.
Click to expand...
It’s a good point, be effective from a solid base, play like we played in the UEFA when we got to the final.
 
sw26 said:
We will need a new Board before turning things around, the current incumbents have shown multiple times now they have no idea what they are doing on the football side.
Click to expand...
Oh well, that's fine. I take it you'll buy them out and then subsidise the club with the amount of cash the tims make from the Champions League each year whilst we catch up. And that's being generous enough to assume you know what you're doing.
 
All of the owners on paper are multi multi millionaires. I wish They would dig a wee bit more just to get us on the right track.
 
One club has benefited to the tune of £100 odd million due to our situation. That is why we are where we are. A major boost for us would be them not qualifying for the Champions League.
 
chrisgers said:
Oh well, that's fine. I take it you'll buy them out and then subsidise the club with the amount of cash the tims make from the Champions League each year whilst we catch up. And that's being generous enough to assume you know what you're doing.
Click to expand...

Would you argue that they’ve made good decisions as regards on-field matters over the last 2 years?

Note that my original post was commenting on that aspect rather than the ‘business’ side which has obviously improved from the days of the Spivs.

At the very least we need more football experience in there making the key decisions.
 
Godrup99 said:
Thats a lot of words for an excuse
Click to expand...
ao2 said:
Calling it a two-team league implies there's competition there, which there isn't. Even in the early 80s I can't remember us being this far off the pace with little hope of making it up, and suffering so many embarrassing humpings into the bargain. Short of a rich sugar-daddy appearing with pots of money to piss away (which is not going to happen) I don't see this ending any time soon. We are now where the scum wanted us to be in 2012, in the same league but offering no serious competition to them and there to be shafted in almost every game. Utterly depressing.
Click to expand...
the champions league money / the difference that makes is the biggest challenge. It’s the financial game changer in the Scottish Premiership which virtually guarantees the league title.

We really need them to crash out in the qualifiers next season(s)
 
luckywhitefeather said:
the champions league money / the difference that makes is the biggest challenge. It’s the financial game changer in the Scottish Premiership which virtually guarantees the league title.

We really need them to crash out in the qualifiers next season(s)
Click to expand...

Hopefully mate. They've been jammy bastards for too long in the qualifiers.
 
its all excuses were getting pumped off a very avrege poet team which shows just how bad wee are and if we want to use the they have more money excuse then how are the sheep and hibs so close to us as our budget is massive compared to them
 
sw26 said:
Would you argue that they’ve made good decisions as regards on-field matters over the last 2 years?

Note that my original post was commenting on that aspect rather than the ‘business’ side which has obviously improved from the days of the Spivs.

At the very least we need more football experience in there making the key decisions.
Click to expand...

They've appointed managers and then backed them with as much cash as they can afford out of their own pockets. You can criticise their choice of managers but I think they are choosing from a fairly shallow talent pool. It's pretty easy to criticise their choice but I guess if 3 months searching yielded Derek McInnes I'm guessing that wasn't because Pep and Jose had poor interviews:-(

You said "we need a new board". I just don't see how that a better replacement is available.

A couple of months ago, MA was wonderful, our recruitment was great and the board were smart to step back and let him get on with it. I presume he's the football experience - but some of the most spectacularly bad managerial appointments were made by football people (e.g. Walter appointed Ally, and Sir Awex hand picked Moyes for Man U)
 
luckywhitefeather said:
we were brutal today , no hiding that , Terrible passing , decision making and players not showing enough with a complete distaster of a youth coach in charge

However, the context of where we are , the reality of what rangers are going to have to overcome can’t be overlooked

All things being equal the team with the better players will usually win the games, titles and trophies. The tims have simply better players.

Whats going to change that in our favour is time, proper football management and I’m afraid a lot more money

Due to David Murray’s disastrous stewardship which enabled the Whyte / greens era we have given the tims at least a seven year headstart in terms of settled squad , performance / standard levels ,the habit of winning trophies, not withstanding the huge (x3 wage bill differential this season!! ), monopoly over the champions league money / carrot to attract players

We were in the 4th tier of Scottish football, let’s not forget that,..our best players left us and we had a transfer ban, we then wasted seasons under the mismanagement of mccoist failing to have any long term player plan Or carefully introduce / build up youth in those lower leagues (that’s not even talking about all the off field / sports direct issues, distractions & where the money was going / how mccoist actually spent the money on players, what we got in return from most of them....just wasted years and money lost

We then, in echoes of the tims in the early 90s, starting going through managers as first the challenge of getting into premiership / then once back, how to chase down / try and compete with the team that has been coasting along picking up titles , champions league money with a squad that Lennon built and then they even had the luxury of the Ronnie dialup experiment safe in the knowledge they could afford to give it a whirl as they knew they could still had enough / outspending to win the league anyway such was the gap. Then now throwing money at Rodgers , his staff and big investment in player recruitment & wages far outwith the rest of the league can think about. (Compare the bench / qualify level they could bring on today / or at Ibrox few weeks back versus what we’ve currently got)

Last season we finished 3rd, 39 points behind, to think that finish can be swung around without millions being spent, which we don’t have!!, in just a year is crazy talk, nor does it take into consideration it would require a complete disaster / internal implosion by the tims to happen (much like mourinho at Chelsea or dare I say Smith’s failed 10 in a row season when team ran out gas, player recruitment / management was misjudged )

It’s also very unlikely we can win the league next season either and that’s before s balls kicked due to the rebuilding job / player change & money required to be found (again all measured against / financial proportionality the tims can / need to invest (& what they are saving for when our real change materialises.

When Dave king was taking about a manager and immediate success he was sadly talking out of turn, placing a completely unfair marker down for a measurement that can’t possibly be achieved in one season given the headstart the other mob have been given.

It’s also a terrible example with the pressure applied to the next manager with it’s unrealistic / dangerous expectation level for the supporter base to be fed

Going back to the early 90s when we were the all conquering champions, the cream of the players , the champions league money & attention whilst they couldn’t even qualify for Europe from league position and were eyeing up a cambuslsng stadium move & our title challenge was from Aberdeen, Motherwell and Hibs...that wasn’t ended by Wim Jansen turning up our the blue. It required a squad to be build up and the gap that existed to be narrowed down each season

Rangers need to be much more open and educate the fanbase of where we find ourselves in light of the financial disparity that exists versus the squad level of the team we need to beat .

The club needs to get the fans onboard with some brutal honesty that’s its going to take time , patience and I’m afraid moments of more frustration and defeat in seasons ahead are probably going to happen as we seek to claw back our position

We are going to require a ‘project’ manager (unless some Middle East country wishes to divest billions of oil money into a Scottish football team and we can outspend / make up the squad value difference in one season !) and for the support to be working on a different performance barometer to which we were used to.

Sustained incremental advances & under a financially responsible spending / investment programme over the next few seasons is the only sensible approach the club & new manager can hope to implement in order for us to win our next league title.

We need the support to really understand and acknowledge the financial reality we are working under
Click to expand...

A fine, sober assessment of our situation.

Personally, I think the fans don't take sufficiently into account the full extent of the stitch-up that was deliberately conceived in order to cripple Rangers. The situation that we are experiencing now was exactly what the architects of that stitch-up had hoped for - with Rangers now light years behind celtic financially and organizationally. Granted, some of our difficulties have been self inflicted, at times the board have displayed shockingly poor judgement which the support can feel justifiably resentful of, but without King and the others we'd still be under the heel of Ashley and his asset-stripping goons.

We have had appalling luck with managers which the board is in part responsible for. For e.g. Warburton seemed a great pick at the time, but he was found out, however, the debacle with Pedro which cost us a full year of progress, is entirely on the board. Likewise sticking Murty, a woefully unprepared guy who was flung into the firing line to compete against the likes of Rodgers and the millions he has at his disposal and hoping he could cope. This was wishful thinking at its most extreme.

What's to be done. Ideally, we'd need to hire a progressive, visionary manager and a support team to revolutionize Rangers from top to bottom - training, scouting, tactics - everything. Finding someone like this is easier said than done of course, It will require due diligence by King, and rather than rush into it and run the risk of screwing up yet again, I wouldn't be averse to the return of Walter - at least until the right man for the job is found.

In trying times like this Rangers need everyone one to remain loyal and steadfast - we are in a deep hole - it may still be a while before we get out.
 
luckywhitefeather said:
we were brutal today , no hiding that , Terrible passing , decision making and players not showing enough with a complete distaster of a youth coach in charge

However, the context of where we are , the reality of what rangers are going to have to overcome can’t be overlooked

All things being equal the team with the better players will usually win the games, titles and trophies. The tims have simply better players.

Whats going to change that in our favour is time, proper football management and I’m afraid a lot more money

Due to David Murray’s disastrous stewardship which enabled the Whyte / greens era we have given the tims at least a seven year headstart in terms of settled squad , performance / standard levels ,the habit of winning trophies, not withstanding the huge (x3 wage bill differential this season!! ), monopoly over the champions league money / carrot to attract players

We were in the 4th tier of Scottish football, let’s not forget that,..our best players left us and we had a transfer ban, we then wasted seasons under the mismanagement of mccoist failing to have any long term player plan Or carefully introduce / build up youth in those lower leagues (that’s not even talking about all the off field / sports direct issues, distractions & where the money was going / how mccoist actually spent the money on players, what we got in return from most of them....just wasted years and money lost

We then, in echoes of the tims in the early 90s, starting going through managers as first the challenge of getting into premiership / then once back, how to chase down / try and compete with the team that has been coasting along picking up titles , champions league money with a squad that Lennon built and then they even had the luxury of the Ronnie dialup experiment safe in the knowledge they could afford to give it a whirl as they knew they could still had enough / outspending to win the league anyway such was the gap. Then now throwing money at Rodgers , his staff and big investment in player recruitment & wages far outwith the rest of the league can think about. (Compare the bench / qualify level they could bring on today / or at Ibrox few weeks back versus what we’ve currently got)

Last season we finished 3rd, 39 points behind, to think that finish can be swung around without millions being spent, which we don’t have!!, in just a year is crazy talk, nor does it take into consideration it would require a complete disaster / internal implosion by the tims to happen (much like mourinho at Chelsea or dare I say Smith’s failed 10 in a row season when team ran out gas, player recruitment / management was misjudged )

It’s also very unlikely we can win the league next season either and that’s before s balls kicked due to the rebuilding job / player change & money required to be found (again all measured against / financial proportionality the tims can / need to invest (& what they are saving for when our real change materialises.

When Dave king was taking about a manager and immediate success he was sadly talking out of turn, placing a completely unfair marker down for a measurement that can’t possibly be achieved in one season given the headstart the other mob have been given.

It’s also a terrible example with the pressure applied to the next manager with it’s unrealistic / dangerous expectation level for the supporter base to be fed

Going back to the early 90s when we were the all conquering champions, the cream of the players , the champions league money & attention whilst they couldn’t even qualify for Europe from league position and were eyeing up a cambuslsng stadium move & our title challenge was from Aberdeen, Motherwell and Hibs...that wasn’t ended by Wim Jansen turning up our the blue. It required a squad to be build up and the gap that existed to be narrowed down each season

Rangers need to be much more open and educate the fanbase of where we find ourselves in light of the financial disparity that exists versus the squad level of the team we need to beat .

The club needs to get the fans onboard with some brutal honesty that’s its going to take time , patience and I’m afraid moments of more frustration and defeat in seasons ahead are probably going to happen as we seek to claw back our position

We are going to require a ‘project’ manager (unless some Middle East country wishes to divest billions of oil money into a Scottish football team and we can outspend / make up the squad value difference in one season !) and for the support to be working on a different performance barometer to which we were used to.

Sustained incremental advances & under a financially responsible spending / investment programme over the next few seasons is the only sensible approach the club & new manager can hope to implement in order for us to win our next league title.

We need the support to really understand and acknowledge the financial reality we are working under
Click to expand...

What a fantastic post.
 
Liewell played a blinder ! He persuaded all Spl clubs to vote Rangers down . Since then Hibs , Hearts, and Dundee Utd have all experienced relegation due too down grading of squads. With this he was aware that they could rule Scottish football and put Rangers under serious financial constraints . It’s not a genius that’s required to know how to be top dog in Scottish football . Rangers need huge investment to be able to properly take hold of the top position!
Remembering when Advocaat was top Celtic spent 20 million under O’Neil to stop him.
It’s going to take similar money to stop the rot again .
 
All the more reason for us to box as clever as possible.

- Falling out with Warburton and not giving him any proper money the season we were promoted.
- Hiring a total randomer who came from Mexico via Qatar.
- Hiring the randomer before a DoF and giving him free reign of £8m budget.
- Herrera and Pena.
- Taking so long to sack Pedro when it was so obvious from the start.
- Murty. Again.
- 7 months of temporary management.
- McInnes. I mean, what was any of that about? From choosing him to being rejected by him.

Are we even trying anymore? Some amount of ridiculous decisions.
 
Sorehead said:
its all excuses were getting pumped off a very avrege poet team which shows just how bad wee are and if we want to use the they have more money excuse then how are the sheep and hibs so close to us as our budget is massive compared to them
Click to expand...
Because we don't utilise the budget the right way.
 
SenoraCuellar said:
Other teams have shown Celtic can be beaten. Teams who have a lot less money spent than us. Which, btw, is a small fortune. Sorry, not buying this not enough money as an excuse.
Click to expand...
There is also an element that they play like there lives depend on it against us and if you are a good team anyway... although yesterday it was as much us not even walking to try and get the ball off them. An empty half of the pitch would have been better opposition for them.
 
Last edited:
luckywhitefeather said:
we were brutal today , no hiding that , Terrible passing , decision making and players not showing enough with a complete distaster of a youth coach in charge

However, the context of where we are , the reality of what rangers are going to have to overcome can’t be overlooked

All things being equal the team with the better players will usually win the games, titles and trophies. The tims have simply better players.

Whats going to change that in our favour is time, proper football management and I’m afraid a lot more money

Due to David Murray’s disastrous stewardship which enabled the Whyte / greens era we have given the tims at least a seven year headstart in terms of settled squad , performance / standard levels ,the habit of winning trophies, not withstanding the huge (x3 wage bill differential this season!! ), monopoly over the champions league money / carrot to attract players

We were in the 4th tier of Scottish football, let’s not forget that,..our best players left us and we had a transfer ban, we then wasted seasons under the mismanagement of mccoist failing to have any long term player plan Or carefully introduce / build up youth in those lower leagues (that’s not even talking about all the off field / sports direct issues, distractions & where the money was going / how mccoist actually spent the money on players, what we got in return from most of them....just wasted years and money lost

We then, in echoes of the tims in the early 90s, starting going through managers as first the challenge of getting into premiership / then once back, how to chase down / try and compete with the team that has been coasting along picking up titles , champions league money with a squad that Lennon built and then they even had the luxury of the Ronnie dialup experiment safe in the knowledge they could afford to give it a whirl as they knew they could still had enough / outspending to win the league anyway such was the gap. Then now throwing money at Rodgers , his staff and big investment in player recruitment & wages far outwith the rest of the league can think about. (Compare the bench / qualify level they could bring on today / or at Ibrox few weeks back versus what we’ve currently got)

Last season we finished 3rd, 39 points behind, to think that finish can be swung around without millions being spent, which we don’t have!!, in just a year is crazy talk, nor does it take into consideration it would require a complete disaster / internal implosion by the tims to happen (much like mourinho at Chelsea or dare I say Smith’s failed 10 in a row season when team ran out gas, player recruitment / management was misjudged )

It’s also very unlikely we can win the league next season either and that’s before s balls kicked due to the rebuilding job / player change & money required to be found (again all measured against / financial proportionality the tims can / need to invest (& what they are saving for when our real change materialises.

When Dave king was taking about a manager and immediate success he was sadly talking out of turn, placing a completely unfair marker down for a measurement that can’t possibly be achieved in one season given the headstart the other mob have been given.

It’s also a terrible example with the pressure applied to the next manager with it’s unrealistic / dangerous expectation level for the supporter base to be fed

Going back to the early 90s when we were the all conquering champions, the cream of the players , the champions league money & attention whilst they couldn’t even qualify for Europe from league position and were eyeing up a cambuslsng stadium move & our title challenge was from Aberdeen, Motherwell and Hibs...that wasn’t ended by Wim Jansen turning up our the blue. It required a squad to be build up and the gap that existed to be narrowed down each season

Rangers need to be much more open and educate the fanbase of where we find ourselves in light of the financial disparity that exists versus the squad level of the team we need to beat .

The club needs to get the fans onboard with some brutal honesty that’s its going to take time , patience and I’m afraid moments of more frustration and defeat in seasons ahead are probably going to happen as we seek to claw back our position

We are going to require a ‘project’ manager (unless some Middle East country wishes to divest billions of oil money into a Scottish football team and we can outspend / make up the squad value difference in one season !) and for the support to be working on a different performance barometer to which we were used to.

Sustained incremental advances & under a financially responsible spending / investment programme over the next few seasons is the only sensible approach the club & new manager can hope to implement in order for us to win our next league title.

We need the support to really understand and acknowledge the financial reality we are working under
Click to expand...

None of this explains why we're struggling to finish 2nd or getting knocked out of Europe in Luxembourg.

It's not difficult what we have to do. Become the best of the rest - no more stupid defeats to Hamilton, St. Johnstone, Dundee - and go further in Europe. Increase income, closer to Celtic, no reckless gambles.

If, having achieved all that, we're still well behind then we can look at the financial disparity but we're nowhere near maximising our potential at this moment. Nowhere near it.
 
baystatebear said:
A fine, sober assessment of our situation.

Personally, I think the fans don't take sufficiently into account the full extent of the stitch-up that was deliberately conceived in order to cripple Rangers. The situation that we are experiencing now was exactly what the architects of that stitch-up had hoped for - with Rangers now light years behind celtic financially and organizationally. Granted, some of our difficulties have been self inflicted, at times the board have displayed shockingly poor judgement which the support can feel justifiably resentful of, but without King and the others we'd still be under the heel of Ashley and his asset-stripping goons.

We have had appalling luck with managers which the board is in part responsible for. For e.g. Warburton seemed a great pick at the time, but he was found out, however, the debacle with Pedro which cost us a full year of progress, is entirely on the board. Likewise sticking Murty, a woefully unprepared guy who was flung into the firing line to compete against the likes of Rodgers and the millions he has at his disposal and hoping he could cope. This was wishful thinking at its most extreme.

What's to be done. Ideally, we'd need to hire a progressive, visionary manager and a support team to revolutionize Rangers from top to bottom - training, scouting, tactics - everything. Finding someone like this is easier said than done of course, It will require due diligence by King, and rather than rush into it and run the risk of screwing up yet again, I wouldn't be averse to the return of Walter - at least until the right man for the job is found.

In trying times like this Rangers need everyone one to remain loyal and steadfast - we are in a deep hole - it may still be a while before we get out.
Click to expand...
We got him in 11 years ago to clear up the mess of Le Guen, we could be doing with something like him now, that mess is nothing like the disaster we are in now.
 
luckywhitefeather said:
we were brutal today , no hiding that , Terrible passing , decision making and players not showing enough with a complete distaster of a youth coach in charge

However, the context of where we are , the reality of what rangers are going to have to overcome can’t be overlooked

All things being equal the team with the better players will usually win the games, titles and trophies. The tims have simply better players.

Whats going to change that in our favour is time, proper football management and I’m afraid a lot more money

Due to David Murray’s disastrous stewardship which enabled the Whyte / greens era we have given the tims at least a seven year headstart in terms of settled squad , performance / standard levels ,the habit of winning trophies, not withstanding the huge (x3 wage bill differential this season!! ), monopoly over the champions league money / carrot to attract players

We were in the 4th tier of Scottish football, let’s not forget that,..our best players left us and we had a transfer ban, we then wasted seasons under the mismanagement of mccoist failing to have any long term player plan Or carefully introduce / build up youth in those lower leagues (that’s not even talking about all the off field / sports direct issues, distractions & where the money was going / how mccoist actually spent the money on players, what we got in return from most of them....just wasted years and money lost

We then, in echoes of the tims in the early 90s, starting going through managers as first the challenge of getting into premiership / then once back, how to chase down / try and compete with the team that has been coasting along picking up titles , champions league money with a squad that Lennon built and then they even had the luxury of the Ronnie dialup experiment safe in the knowledge they could afford to give it a whirl as they knew they could still had enough / outspending to win the league anyway such was the gap. Then now throwing money at Rodgers , his staff and big investment in player recruitment & wages far outwith the rest of the league can think about. (Compare the bench / qualify level they could bring on today / or at Ibrox few weeks back versus what we’ve currently got)

Last season we finished 3rd, 39 points behind, to think that finish can be swung around without millions being spent, which we don’t have!!, in just a year is crazy talk, nor does it take into consideration it would require a complete disaster / internal implosion by the tims to happen (much like mourinho at Chelsea or dare I say Smith’s failed 10 in a row season when team ran out gas, player recruitment / management was misjudged )

It’s also very unlikely we can win the league next season either and that’s before s balls kicked due to the rebuilding job / player change & money required to be found (again all measured against / financial proportionality the tims can / need to invest (& what they are saving for when our real change materialises.

When Dave king was taking about a manager and immediate success he was sadly talking out of turn, placing a completely unfair marker down for a measurement that can’t possibly be achieved in one season given the headstart the other mob have been given.

It’s also a terrible example with the pressure applied to the next manager with it’s unrealistic / dangerous expectation level for the supporter base to be fed

Going back to the early 90s when we were the all conquering champions, the cream of the players , the champions league money & attention whilst they couldn’t even qualify for Europe from league position and were eyeing up a cambuslsng stadium move & our title challenge was from Aberdeen, Motherwell and Hibs...that wasn’t ended by Wim Jansen turning up our the blue. It required a squad to be build up and the gap that existed to be narrowed down each season

Rangers need to be much more open and educate the fanbase of where we find ourselves in light of the financial disparity that exists versus the squad level of the team we need to beat .

The club needs to get the fans onboard with some brutal honesty that’s its going to take time , patience and I’m afraid moments of more frustration and defeat in seasons ahead are probably going to happen as we seek to claw back our position

We are going to require a ‘project’ manager (unless some Middle East country wishes to divest billions of oil money into a Scottish football team and we can outspend / make up the squad value difference in one season !) and for the support to be working on a different performance barometer to which we were used to.

Sustained incremental advances & under a financially responsible spending / investment programme over the next few seasons is the only sensible approach the club & new manager can hope to implement in order for us to win our next league title.

We need the support to really understand and acknowledge the financial reality we are working under
Click to expand...

A lot of what you say mate is a lot of sense.

But I can rubbish a lot of it with just 1 word.

KILMARNOCK!

They are on league winning form. Picked up more points since their manager came in than any other.
KILLIE!

This board need to find the right manager. You get what you pay for so lets push the boat out and pay that manager what he needs.
If it's 30k-40K a week so be it.
We get rid of Alves, Carodso, O'Halloran, Dalcio, Forrester, Dodoo etc all deadwood and that pays the manager.

Being able to organise and structure a team with clear intentions and have that knowhow to change it up at the right moment is exactly what we need.

If Steve Clarke can be tempted to Ibrox then our board should pull out all the stops IMO
 
Foolback said:
Since his appointment they would be. If Clark hasn't lost three games with Killy then he most certainly would not lose three games with us. I predict now and you can hold me to this if it occurs that he will be a revelation if he becomes our manager.
Click to expand...
He certainly has a good football brain and he knows a player when he sees one, can't see him being namby pamby either.
 
After thinking about it, i should’ve used ‘had’ 7 year headstart rather than ‘has’ as I genuinely do believe Rangers , certainly off the park / financially are making improvements , slowly cutting back on the tims advantage and for a great part of this season we have played a lot better than last campaign, and overall quality of our squad is better than what we had.

(& I certainly feel we all need to embrace the director of football change of setup from we had traditionally been used too and give him more time. Mark Allen’s list for next manager should be from where the board make their decision)

yesterday felt like back to square one such was our horror show performance but big picture is domestically Finishing 2nd and narrowing the points from last season is a success given our recent seasons and the advantage the tims have got / overspent on /built up

Without trotting out same kinda Jose mourinho defense , it is a basic truth that’s its been 6 years since we even finished as high as 2nd in the premier league , expecting us just to stroll into even that position whilst constantly changing players / manager?

(There is also a strange fact that Looking at the league table points wise we are closer to the tims than man united are to city, (you look at the other divisions in Europe and the teams who spend the most money / highest wage bill are running away with the title, PSG, Bayern all leading with greater points difference back to 2nd spot, Barcelona & juventus too look certainty to win their leagues. and their nearest competitors don’t have the financial handicap of no champions league money to try and compete as we do.

The champs league money I repeat is the game changer , biggest obstacle we / rest of the teams in Scotland face in trying to cut back on the tims lead. There is no question we need them to go out in the qualifiers and for us to start going through a couple rounds in the Europa / build ourselves up / maximise revenue with hopefully some big games

I see folk using killie as an example for a manager and how the resources can be better managed.

Rangers have certainly not made the best use of our transfer budget. Salary levels since we’ve been back in the premier league and a lot of money that the board made available / was spent on big marquee signings that either failed totally or showed / only showing glimpses (Barton , senderos, kranjcar , rossiter, Alves )

We obviously need to get better return on the money we are spending, however the pressure levels / expectation / media intensity makes it tricky to evaluate that Stevie Clarke’s success at Kilmarnock can be simply replicated if he were to get the job at Ibrox

However Clarke is doing well with limited resources / has them organised and has couple of players that I wouldn’t be against seeing at Ibrox,

The next manager decision is a crucial moment I just hope the fans really appreciate the difficulty of the task rangers are faced with given the years we’ve lost and the obvious financial disparity to the team we need to beat / will always be measured against

that’s on the park, thats not even taking into consideration the numerous cheerleaders / helpers / enablers / benefactors / puppets / politicians / officials the tims have got in their pocket / working for them and against us
 
There is a gulf in finances but we are not where we are simply due to them. Our home record is abysmal, our recent managerial appointments have been a disaster and the players are not up to it. We're not even clear of Aberdeen and Hibs, never mind them. Of the money we do have we haven't exactly used it wisely. There's been a few good signings but there's been plenty of waste too.
 
Leith Ger said:
There is a gulf in finances but we are not where we are simply due to them. Our home record is abysmal, our recent managerial appointments have been a disaster and the players are not up to it. We're not even clear of Aberdeen and Hibs, never mind them. Of the money we do have we haven't exactly used it wisely. There's been a few good signings but there's been plenty of waste too.
Click to expand...

Obviously the dramatic gulf in financial resources that exists is bound play a major factor in the dominance they currently enjoy. But it isn't the only reason. That managers make a significant difference is beyond question. For instance, had Deila remained as their manager the present gulf between the sides would not be as great as it is, it has increased because they hired Rodgers who is by any measure far superior.

As to Murty - I feel sorry for the guy. He never sought the job, was thrust into it because the board made such a mess of the McInnes situation. Woefully unequipped in terms of background and experience, Murty found himself pitted against a manger who had almost won the EPL a couple of seasons earlier, and was expected to compete.

Rangers, it must be said, have had appalling luck with the recent managers they have hired. The lack of due diligence played by the board in this has a lot to do with our present sorry state. Will they learn from their mistakes or are they simply not up to the task. I hope to god it's the former otherwise we are in for another generation of celtic dominance in what will be a 'one-team league'.
 
CaptainCourageous said:
We sure love an excuse.
Click to expand...
It’s not an excuse it’s a reality
It’s pretty obvious money buys you better quality players

Not withstanding they had a guy who cost them £4 million in midfield who ran the show, The tims have a wage bill x3 times ours!!

Our subs yesterday were.
A guy from accrington Stanley who cost us 100k
a 36year old free transfer
A 60k signing from hearts

Tims brought on:
Sinclair, cost them a couple million and on big money, played at English premiership level
Griffith, million plus , big wages again
£12million pound guy from Man City that they themselves have spent million plus on hiring , not withstanding his wages

When rangers sit back like they did yesterday , don’t compete / match up correctly , stand off them and let them play with no challenge then their better players / higher skill level will tell.
 
In the 90s we were miles ahead of them.They couldn't get near us.
In came McCann and within 4 years he had built them a stadium and stopped us winning 10 in a row.
He signed them some pretty decent players and if memory serves me right when we won 8 in a row that mob only lost one game all season.
Will Dave King achieve that with us?
 
luckywhitefeather said:
It’s not an excuse it’s a reality
It’s pretty obvious money buys you better quality players

Not withstanding they had a guy who cost them £4 million in midfield who ran the show, The tims have a wage bill x3 times ours!!

Our subs yesterday were.
A guy from accrington Stanley who cost us 100k
a 36year old free transfer
A 60k signing from hearts

Tims brought on:
Sinclair, cost them a couple million and on big money, played at English premiership level
Griffith, million plus , big wages again
£12million pound guy from Man City that they themselves have spent million plus on hiring , not withstanding his wages

When rangers sit back like they did yesterday , don’t compete / match up correctly , stand off them and let them play with no challenge then their better players / higher skill level will tell.
Click to expand...

We've been losing to teams all season who have spent a fraction of what we did in transfer fees and wages. Whilst money is a factor, we can't use it as an excuse for yesterday. With that performance yesterday we'd have lost against anybody. We've already lost a semi-final this season against Motherwell.
 
minder said:
In the 90s we were miles ahead of them.They couldn't get near us.
In came McCann and within 4 years he had built them a stadium and stopped us winning 10 in a row.
He signed them some pretty decent players and if memory serves me right when we won 8 in a row that mob only lost one game all season.
Will Dave King achieve that with us?
Click to expand...
What allowed them to stop 10 in a row was Rangers blind loyalty to Smith who should’ve been replaced several years before , with Murray also culpable by allowing huge sums of money to be wasted on guys who contributed very little and our failure in Europe

It is interesting similarity if it comes to pass with Clarke that the tims signed a manager from killie who build them a team, though he wasn’t good enough to actually win the title , took someone else who quickly cashed out as he knew he got lucky & was no chance he was going to be able to replicate it

However the financial disparity between then and now , what the rest of the teams in premiership are spending and the difference of champions league money is the biggest factor / hardest to overcome now given limited tv revenue.

The appetite for / money generated by our forthcoming share issue could provide a leg up though as it did for them
 
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