8 of our starting 11 from England Championship last night

Davie Weir Loyal

Well-Known Member
For the last 7-8 years the majority of our recruitment has come from this league and I think this has become an issue.

A league where you can lose a lot of games and still be successful. Look at Norwich this season. P43 W21 D8 L14 and are still on course for the play offs.

I think a lot of these players dont appreciate how much of a disaster it is just drawing 1 game in Scotland can be. They don't have a winning mentality.

Also it's a market that you have to massively overpay in for a questionable level of quality.

It needs to stop.
 
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I’ve seen injuries mentioned a few times in the last few match threads, outwith the Celtic game in which you’d want your strongest starting 11 the past two games any team we out out should be good enough 9 out of 10 times to beat a team 2nd bottom of our league and a Dundee team who have just made it into the top 6.
 
The wages we are paying for bog standard Championship players with no resale value is mental

Someone needs to explain to me how guys like Ben Davies and Tom Lawrence are trousering nearly £30k a week each and how it's justifiable to us overall.

Was in another thread that 7 of the top 10 earners in Scotland play for us.

Celtic have three guys on £25k a week or more. We have NINE. And very few of them have any resale value bar the goalie. It's insanity.
 
The Championship is literally filled with dross. It's a competitive league but the quality is rubbish outwith the 3 teams who come down.

It’s a total myth about how the standard is in the Championship. Sure, it’s competitive and exciting, but some of the standard on display is appalling. Why so many of our managers recently have seen it as a hive of quality signings is beyond me.
 
Look at FA Cup results Premiership v Championship, there is not much between bottom of one top of the other.

Sadly as a product Scottish football, combined with the weather, facilities etc isn’t an attractive prospect, it’s easier to entice players across the border with the prospect of European football, big wages and still close enough to friends and family.
 
For the last 7-8 years the majority of our recruitment has come from this league and I think this has become an issue.

A league where you can lose a lot of games and still be successful. Look at Norwich this season. P43 W21 D8 L14 and are still on course for the play offs.

I think a lot of these players dont appreciate how much of a disaster it is just drawing 1 game in Scotland can be. They don't have a winning mentality.

Also it's a market that you have to massively overpay in for a questionable level of quality.

It needs to a stop.
What is your suggestion? We only buy from Red Star Belgrade, Ferencvaros, Shaktar? The above applies to 99% of the clubs we buy from.
 
They will tell you about how good their undefeated record is when they win 2, draw 4 out of 6. It’s a league that’s over hyped to fuk as well. Nowhere near the standard it thinks it is. So when you take the mid table shite like cantwell, Lawrence, Lundstrums, dowells etc and you’re trying to win things they don’t even know what it’s like.
 
The wages we are paying for bog standard Championship players with no resale value is mental

Someone needs to explain to me how guys like Ben Davies and Tom Lawrence are trousering nearly £30k a week each and how it's justifiable to us overall.

Was in another thread that 7 of the top 10 earners in Scotland play for us.

Celtic have three guys on £25k a week or more. We have NINE. And very few of them have any resale value bar the goalie. It's insanity.

The figures in that other thread are way off. I know this because I know exactly how much one of the first names on the list earns,
 
The English football market is over priced due to the crazy Sky deal. Probably one of the hardest places in the world to get value for money, not sure why we shop there.

There may be value in the guys that just didn't quite make it in good youth systems. But we should avoid players older than 22 from England like the plague
 
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Injuries have killed it.

Yilmaz, Cortes, Diomsnde, Danillo, Barasic Chucking it ( impacting where we play Sterling).

I could go on
Yilmaz was maybe available for the OF game and is still missing, I think he's another Roofe, who won't play unless he feels 100% Diamonde out with an injured thumb ffs, Barasic another shitebag, we have a bunch of fairies in our squad
 
Yilmaz was maybe available for the OF game and is still missing, I think he's another Roofe, who won't play unless he feels 100% Diamonde out with an injured thumb ffs, Barasic another shitebag, we have a bunch of fairies in our squad

I'm not making excuses just trying to give a bit of perspective re the OP (who I'm not having a go at either).

We have played too many games with too few first teamers, Just wanted my opinion out there, just getting the feeling that Clement is now getting the blame for the systematic transfer failures that we have seen under Ross Wilson, aligned to the craziest injury list I have ever seen
 
The wages we are paying for bog standard Championship players with no resale value is mental

Someone needs to explain to me how guys like Ben Davies and Tom Lawrence are trousering nearly £30k a week each and how it's justifiable to us overall.

Was in another thread that 7 of the top 10 earners in Scotland play for us.

Celtic have three guys on £25k a week or more. We have NINE. And very few of them have any resale value bar the goalie. It's insanity.

We're throwing good money after bad in terms of wages.

Compared to EPL teams our £64m wage will would put us in 13th place joint with Fulham.

There are 6 EPL teams with a lower wage bill than us, including Wolves and Brighton.

We're squandering vast sums of money on the wages of inadequate players.
 
We are paying top dollar every week for some very average footballers.
That’s something that’s needs addressed by the powers that be.
Guys coming from the English championship or reserve teams and being paid a million quid a year and more, to deliver next to no success?
We can surely get better value for money elsewhere.
 
Just typed out the below list, we are going to need about 7 new starters as a minimum IMO with a EL budget to fund it:

GK - Butland - New

RB - New - Tavernier
CB - New - Souttar - King
CB - New - New
LB - Ridvan - New

DM - New - Rice
CM - Sterling - New - Raskin
CM - Diomande - New

RF - New - McAusland
AM(C) - New - Cantwell
LF - New - New

CF - New - Danilo - Lovelace

Out:

Goldson
Dessers
Davies
Matondo
Lammers
Lawrence
Dowell

OOC:

Lundstram
Jack
Roofe
McLaughlin
Barisic
Balogun

With about 13 in total required we are probably going to have to hang on to a few of the Dowells or Lawrence’s and hope that they can supplement an improved starting 11 but the 7 starters need to be found this summer.
 
If we’d have flopped last night with mainly foreigners folk would be saying we need a British spine

50% of our starting line up ~ unavailable and a lot of the players we have are returning from Injury, and we have some players who have played more competitive football than any other players in Europe (and they're not young).
 
We’re in exactly the same sorry position we were the last two summers. Maybe worse.

Mediocrities on high wages and nil resale value and no discernable strategy or process. Beale and Wilson and the board that enabled their grift.

If we’d have won the league it may have brought a bit of leeway to trade this out. This last fortnight has probably doomed us for a good while.
 
We’re in exactly the same sorry position we were the last two summers. Maybe worse.

Mediocrities on high wages and nil resale value and no discernable strategy or process. Beale and Wilson and the board that enabled their grift.

If we’d have won the league it may have brought a bit of leeway to trade this out. This last fortnight has probably doomed us for a good while.

Our inability to beat CeItic is also a thing, our record against the other 10 i; as ridiculous as it appears, better than there's.

When they get next season's UCL money it will be seismic
 
The wages we are paying for bog standard Championship players with no resale value is mental

Someone needs to explain to me how guys like Ben Davies and Tom Lawrence are trousering nearly £30k a week each and how it's justifiable to us overall.

Was in another thread that 7 of the top 10 earners in Scotland play for us.

Celtic have three guys on £25k a week or more. We have NINE. And very few of them have any resale value bar the goalie. It's insanity.
What a depressing, but accurate, summation. We're in a bad way from top to bottom.
 
For the last 7-8 years the majority of our recruitment has come from this league and I think this has become an issue.

A league where you can lose a lot of games and still be successful. Look at Norwich this season. P43 W21 D8 L14 and are still on course for the play offs.

I think a lot of these players dont appreciate how much of a disaster it is just drawing 1 game in Scotland can be. They don't have a winning mentality.

Also it's a market that you have to massively overpay in for a questionable level of quality.

It needs to a stop.
I fundamentally agree with the point.

However in reality who are these players we'll realistically go out and sign who are consistent winners?
 
The wages we are paying for bog standard Championship players with no resale value is mental

Someone needs to explain to me how guys like Ben Davies and Tom Lawrence are trousering nearly £30k a week each and how it's justifiable to us overall.

Was in another thread that 7 of the top 10 earners in Scotland play for us.

Celtic have three guys on £25k a week or more. We have NINE. And very few of them have any resale value bar the goalie. It's insanity.
The whole culture surrounding this needs to end.
Agents must be rubbing their hands when we come calling.
 
Whilst celtic were/are winning trophies with players such as: Furuhashi, Hatate, Abada, Carter-Vickers, Maeda, Johnston, Taylor, Iwata, Kuhn, Yang, Scales, Ralston.

They have also had a number of injuries this season.
This is an uncomfortable truth for many. Their back line in particular has been a bucket of shite.
 
Just typed out the below list, we are going to need about 7 new starters as a minimum IMO with a EL budget to fund it:

GK - Butland - New

RB - New - Tavernier
CB - New - Souttar - King
CB - New - New
LB - Ridvan - New

DM - New - Rice
CM - Sterling - New - Raskin
CM - Diomande - New

RF - New - McAusland
AM(C) - New - Cantwell
LF - New - New

CF - New - Danilo - Lovelace

Out:

Goldson
Dessers
Davies
Matondo
Lammers
Lawrence
Dowell

OOC:

Lundstram
Jack
Roofe
McLaughlin
Barisic
Balogun

With about 13 in total required we are probably going to have to hang on to a few of the Dowells or Lawrence’s and hope that they can supplement an improved starting 11 but the 7 starters need to be found this summer.
Souttar and King staying?? no thanks
 
Just typed out the below list, we are going to need about 7 new starters as a minimum IMO with a EL budget to fund it:

GK - Butland - New

RB - New - Tavernier
CB - New - Souttar - King
CB - New - New
LB - Ridvan - New

DM - New - Rice
CM - Sterling - New - Raskin
CM - Diomande - New

RF - New - McAusland
AM(C) - New - Cantwell
LF - New - New

CF - New - Danilo - Lovelace

Out:

Goldson
Dessers
Davies
Matondo
Lammers
Lawrence
Dowell

OOC:

Lundstram
Jack
Roofe
McLaughlin
Barisic
Balogun

With about 13 in total required we are probably going to have to hang on to a few of the Dowells or Lawrence’s and hope that they can supplement an improved starting 11 but the 7 starters need to be found this summer.
Lovelace is OOC this summer aswell
 
Said it yesterday. You sign a bunch of English championship players, you get an English championship mentality. Just look at the automatic promotion race right now, all three of the clubs at the top are trying their best to blow it. Five wins combined between the three in their last fifteen.



It's why i'm actually a bit optimistic with Nils Koppen. I think we will move away form the English market being our biggest import of players and there will be a far larger scope of players looked at instead of just the most expensive market and whoever in the Championship has a contract up at the end of the season. It's handcuffed us for years shopping in the most expensive markets without having the kind of budget that would get you a top quality player from these leagues.
 
For the last 7-8 years the majority of our recruitment has come from this league and I think this has become an issue.

A league where you can lose a lot of games and still be successful. Look at Norwich this season. P43 W21 D8 L14 and are still on course for the play offs.

I think a lot of these players dont appreciate how much of a disaster it is just drawing 1 game in Scotland can be. They don't have a winning mentality.

Also it's a market that you have to massively overpay in for a questionable level of quality.

It needs to a stop.
Its nothing to do where they came from, O'Riley came from MK Dons ffs and the scum have half their team from the J League.
Its about desire, determination, fitness etc. Asa squad we don't have that.
I dont know if the "senior leadership group" (I detest that phrase) have too much power in the dressing room but we need to get a Scottish core in the dressing room that are Rangers minded. No coincidence that when we were at our best winning leagues and cups regularly that we had Rangers men in the dressing room.
 
£64,000,000 per year in wages which in the last set of accounts was actually £3,000,000 per year more than the yahoos says it all. That’s also with us generating millions less in income than them as well.

The only plan our board have is to throw money at the situation and hope for the best.

Absolutely no strategic long term vision at the club at all other than to hope we get a miracle worker manager.
 
Eh? That's just not true.

Butland - PL

Tav - Fine but 9 years ago

Goldson - PL

Souttar - SPL

Sterling - PL

Lundstram - Just been relegated from PL, but fine

Cantwell - Yip

Lawrence - Yip

Silva - PL

Sima - PL

Dessers - Serie A

Things are bad enough without folk just making shite up
Are you claiming that Goldson and Sterling were EPL players!??
 
Another thing with the starting 11 last night was that all players were right footed.

That definitely doesn’t help with the balance. I get with injuries (and the available left back a coward) some people need to play out of position but that can’t be good for the set up either.
 
Lets us also be mindful that we have had years to try and sort out our youth system and at least try and promote a couple of solid first team starters from there.

That’s hasn’t happened, McCausland only got a sniff due to the sliding doors moment that was Steven Davis interim. It’s hard to admit but we are a shambles from top to bottom.

The really humiliating thing is that the filth don’t even feel we are worth spending money on anymore. They had millions in the bank and opted to spend none in January as they were so confident we would balls it up, that’s hard to take.
 
Injuries have killed it.

Yilmaz, Cortes, Diomsnde, Danillo, Barasic Chucking it ( impacting where we play Sterling).

I could go on
Yilmaz being out proved more of a problem that one would have suspected a few month back, but Cortes, Dio-finger, Danillo are not known entities at this point to be able to pass judgement as certain game changers, certainly when compared to the other mediocrities that have shown glimpses now and then of being capable.
 
Just typed out the below list, we are going to need about 7 new starters as a minimum IMO with a EL budget to fund it:

GK - Butland - New

RB - New - Tavernier
CB - New - Souttar - King
CB - New - New
LB - Ridvan - New

DM - New - Rice
CM - Sterling - New - Raskin
CM - Diomande - New

RF - New - McAusland
AM(C) - New - Cantwell
LF - New - New

CF - New - Danilo - Lovelace

Out:

Goldson
Dessers
Davies
Matondo
Lammers
Lawrence
Dowell

OOC:

Lundstram
Jack
Roofe
McLaughlin
Barisic
Balogun

With about 13 in total required we are probably going to have to hang on to a few of the Dowells or Lawrence’s and hope that they can supplement an improved starting 11 but the 7 starters need to be found this summer.
GK - McRorie, - (other reserve keeper)

RB - new RB - Devine - King
CB - Souttar - (buy back Mayo) - King( he can cover across back 4)
CB - New - Yfeko
LB - Ridvan - Frazer - (Jette?)

DM - Raskin - Rice
CM - New - Sterling - McKinnon
CM - Diomande - Archie Steven’s - Arron Lyall

RF - New McAusland (Sima if we can get him bought/loaned)
AM(C) - New - Lowry(if still here)
LF - Cortez ( if we can get him) - Ishaka?

CF - Shankland - Miovski- Danilo - Lovelace

For me we don’t have a great deal of money, so we must clear the decks of pretty much most of 1st team squad and promote youth properly into 1st team squad.

Don’t need a new keeper imo. McRorie good enough imo and we can use transfer budget elsewhere. We possible need a new RB, although I’m happy to give Devine, King the nod in there.
Right CB think we are covered in with Souttar and possibly King as backup. Would take back Mayo from Killie if we can tho.

We definitely need a new left CB. We are covered at Left back and there was rumours we might still get the lad Jette(or was it Jeffe?).

We definitely need a new ball playing creative midfielder, but Diomonde, Raskin, Sterling and youths like a rice, McKinnon should be enough in there for other midfield roles.

A new attacking 10 is needed, had hoped Lowry could do that role but no idea where the boy is currently injury wise or mental health wise. Would be willing to keep Cantwell but think we may need to sell him for funding. Wide players, Cortez looked good before injury so go back for him, McAusland can do job on other side, but would prefer Sima if we can get him again. Just don’t think we can afford him. Is that youth player Ishaka an option as a first team squad winger?

Hoping that Danilo comes back and makes his mark but really think we need to get Shankland in as a proven Scottish Striker and I’d like Miovski as well if we can afford it. Supplement with Lovelace if he is still here.
we are committed to buying Diomonde, so that’s £4 mill, I’d spend most of what’s left getting in Shankland, Miovski if possible, And a new creative Mid.

If we have any money left and it’s financially possible, get in Young Scottish players like Watson, Miller etc.

Would also hope that Koppen and new scout can identify cheap gems from Europe/wherever for all areas of team too.

But it all depends on transfer budget, so who knows.
 
The best players in the English Championship are all loanees from the EPL.

Buying players who aren't even getting a game in that league is just madness.
 
It’s not an area we should ignore completely but look for the young up and coming players and not those that are mid 20s or older. Years back someone started a thread saying we should look at Ollie Watkins when he was at Exeter and the majority of the replies were along the lines of hes pish 15 goals in 45 games at that level etc etc.

He then went to Brentford for under £2m and then to Villa for £30m or thereabouts and if any of the big boys in England want to take him away from Villa it will likely be for around the £100m mark and he is now an Established part of the England squad.
 
This is an uncomfortable truth for many. Their back line in particular has been a bucket of shite.

They signed a striker on loan from Norwich in January. Everyone laughed at it.

He's better than any striker we have on our books, scored on his Old Firm debut and has 8 goals for them.

We needed a striker so what did we do. Hunted the English Premiership and brought in an expensive flop who is playing off the left hand side and doesn't have a single positive attribute that compliments the managers style of play (long ball, direct garbage).

We keep on signing shite and we continue to appoint managers that do not play to the players strengths.
 
It’s not an area we should ignore completely but look for the young up and coming players and not those that are mid 20s or older. Years back someone started a thread saying we should look at Ollie Watkins when he was at Exeter and the majority of the replies were along the lines of hes pish 15 goals in 45 games at that level etc etc.

He then went to Brentford for under £2m and then to Villa for £30m or thereabouts and if any of the big boys in England want to take him away from Villa it will likely be for around the £100m mark and he is now an Established part of the England squad.
Yeah this. I wouldn't ignore it completely but we should only be targeting a certain profile.

I'm almost certain that Koppen won't be obsessed with focusing on players who've 'lost their way'. %^*& that. Young, fit, ambitious, hungry players. I don't care if we've never heard of them either.
 
Yeah this. I wouldn't ignore it completely but we should only be targeting a certain profile.

I'm almost certain that Kloppen won't be obsessed with focusing on players who've lost their way. %^*& that. Young, fit, ambitious, hungry players. I don't care if we've never heard of them either.
Yep the signing of journey men with questionable injury records has to stop.
 
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