8 of our starting 11 from England Championship last night
- Thread starter Davie Weir Loyal
- Start date
Midfield General
Well-Known Member
I get it that the feeling is if a player can play at championship level they should be good enough for the SPFL but you are right we are overloaded with this type of player.
We should stop looking down our nose at players in this league.Miovski and Shankland up front or Lammers and Dessers for example its a no brainer.We let Lewis Ferguson slip through our hands too.
Meiklejohn
Well-Known Member
Mediocre English championship players as well.
Cantwell and Dowell for heavens sake. Lawrence as well. All utter garbage.
Cantwell and Dowell for heavens sake. Lawrence as well. All utter garbage.
PMB1872
Well-Known Member
I was about to post something similar re the English league to be honest. Nobody doubts the fact that they get the British game, but actually they don’t always get the Scottish game. It’s different. It’s a two horse race at best. Most times the other 10 teams play 11 behind the ball and counter attack you quickly. Breaking down teams isn’t always easy and often takes a good footballing brain, constant movement, quick feet or real physicality
I accept that when we were signing players from England, or English players from elsewhere, who were EPL and often international standard that was a good policy, e.g. Woods, Stevens, Butcher, Roberts, Wilkins, Spackman, Walters, Hateley, Falco, Francis, etc.
However, in recent times, we’ve been signing average guys on ridiculous money, on long contracts, and often renewing them for long periods when undeserved or they’re heading for the back end of their career. The only two exceptions of note have been the younger guys like Sterling and Bassey.
My view on the other recent British/English league background players signed::
Tavernier - Great for the money we spent, but there’s no denying that he’s a mediocre defender. He’s not that quick and has lost pace. He gets caught out of position too much and isn’t always quick at getting back. The superb goals tally blinds too many folk on here. An okay penalty conversion record at c80% if I remember rightly, can hit a good, sometimes great free kick, with good frequency, and chips in with some other goals. Not a great captain either as he’s not vocal enough. Disappears too often in the big matches as a defender (which is supposed to be his job), particularly against Celtic. I’m saying more about him because he’s almost as much of the problem as the solution. (And NO, he’s NOT the least of our problems, or the most, I accept)
Goldson - In the past has been a good organiser, but he’s not a top centre half. He’s okay in the tackle, but poor in the air (defensively and as a threat from corners) and caught out of position far too often. Also prone to massive brain farts. Wouldn’t even have him in my top 10 centre halves post Souness, yet if I’m not mistaken he’s our top earner?
Lundstram - Runs cold, then some hotter periods, then cold again. Too slow on the ball, slows our play right down, doesn’t pass quickly enough, doesn’t create much or score much. Defensively not bad. Worth £1m a year plus? Should we renew that? Nope.
Cantwell - Great on social media, and sometimes on the pitch. Generally does put in a shift though doesn’t create enough or score enough. Ultimately he’s not as good as he thinks he is.
Dowell - Good at jogging, gets injured a lot. Waste of wages.
Lawrence - Good at jogging, perhaps unlucky with the long injury early in his time with us, but too slow and main redeeming feature is occasionally he has a game where he shoots a lot.
Matondo - Generally nowhere near good enough. His performances are miss, miss, miss, miss, kind of hit (with a goal), then repeat pattern.
Kent - Gone but not forgotten. Couldn’t fault his work rate, but a hide and seek champion in the main. Shocking goals tally for a forward who had so much of the ball. Notable that the only time that was at an acceptable level was in front of no crowds, in line with his previous best work, in Liverpool’s academy team.
Flanagan - Rubbish, end of.
I could go on, but the general point is English league players no longer give us enough quality or good value. I don’t believe for a minute that we couldn’t get players from Scotland (imagine that!!) or say Scandinavia, Poland, Hungary, Czech Republic, etc for less who would be technically competent enough and actually have won trophies and have that winning mentality, more so than a lot of the journeymen we’ve been signing on high wages.
I accept that when we were signing players from England, or English players from elsewhere, who were EPL and often international standard that was a good policy, e.g. Woods, Stevens, Butcher, Roberts, Wilkins, Spackman, Walters, Hateley, Falco, Francis, etc.
However, in recent times, we’ve been signing average guys on ridiculous money, on long contracts, and often renewing them for long periods when undeserved or they’re heading for the back end of their career. The only two exceptions of note have been the younger guys like Sterling and Bassey.
My view on the other recent British/English league background players signed::
Tavernier - Great for the money we spent, but there’s no denying that he’s a mediocre defender. He’s not that quick and has lost pace. He gets caught out of position too much and isn’t always quick at getting back. The superb goals tally blinds too many folk on here. An okay penalty conversion record at c80% if I remember rightly, can hit a good, sometimes great free kick, with good frequency, and chips in with some other goals. Not a great captain either as he’s not vocal enough. Disappears too often in the big matches as a defender (which is supposed to be his job), particularly against Celtic. I’m saying more about him because he’s almost as much of the problem as the solution. (And NO, he’s NOT the least of our problems, or the most, I accept)
Goldson - In the past has been a good organiser, but he’s not a top centre half. He’s okay in the tackle, but poor in the air (defensively and as a threat from corners) and caught out of position far too often. Also prone to massive brain farts. Wouldn’t even have him in my top 10 centre halves post Souness, yet if I’m not mistaken he’s our top earner?
Lundstram - Runs cold, then some hotter periods, then cold again. Too slow on the ball, slows our play right down, doesn’t pass quickly enough, doesn’t create much or score much. Defensively not bad. Worth £1m a year plus? Should we renew that? Nope.
Cantwell - Great on social media, and sometimes on the pitch. Generally does put in a shift though doesn’t create enough or score enough. Ultimately he’s not as good as he thinks he is.
Dowell - Good at jogging, gets injured a lot. Waste of wages.
Lawrence - Good at jogging, perhaps unlucky with the long injury early in his time with us, but too slow and main redeeming feature is occasionally he has a game where he shoots a lot.
Matondo - Generally nowhere near good enough. His performances are miss, miss, miss, miss, kind of hit (with a goal), then repeat pattern.
Kent - Gone but not forgotten. Couldn’t fault his work rate, but a hide and seek champion in the main. Shocking goals tally for a forward who had so much of the ball. Notable that the only time that was at an acceptable level was in front of no crowds, in line with his previous best work, in Liverpool’s academy team.
Flanagan - Rubbish, end of.
I could go on, but the general point is English league players no longer give us enough quality or good value. I don’t believe for a minute that we couldn’t get players from Scotland (imagine that!!) or say Scandinavia, Poland, Hungary, Czech Republic, etc for less who would be technically competent enough and actually have won trophies and have that winning mentality, more so than a lot of the journeymen we’ve been signing on high wages.
A Magician Named Gob
Well-Known Member
Where players were before doesn't matter.
Their best players are from the J-League, Spurs reserves and League 1 if I remember right.
Their best players are from the J-League, Spurs reserves and League 1 if I remember right.
I would genuinely rather sign the best of Scottish players we are linked with but our fans constantly turn their noses up at.
They really aren't any worse than the dross from the championship and would cost a fraction of the wages, and at least they would get the win or nothing culture.
They really aren't any worse than the dross from the championship and would cost a fraction of the wages, and at least they would get the win or nothing culture.
Weedoddieno6
Well-Known Member
Hart, o Reilly, idah, just off the top of my head.
Getting the right players from down south in a formation that suits is absolutely fine. Getting the wrong ones or the team being set up incorrectly is the problem.
Getting the right players from down south in a formation that suits is absolutely fine. Getting the wrong ones or the team being set up incorrectly is the problem.
BrooklynBlue
Well-Known Member
And yet there are some who want to sign McBurnie + McNair.
Any quality Championship player is beyond our budget. It’s League 1 (or 2) before they make that step to the Championship or above that we need to look at.
Our Championship signings are players on their way down.
English football arrogance from Wilson + Beale to believe Scotland is an easy place for such players.
Any quality Championship player is beyond our budget. It’s League 1 (or 2) before they make that step to the Championship or above that we need to look at.
Our Championship signings are players on their way down.
English football arrogance from Wilson + Beale to believe Scotland is an easy place for such players.
Nobody should be being bought who is over 25 or has wage demands over 15k . We play in the spl ffs, nobody should be getting huge wages unless they become a big sellable asset and we need to get them to sign an extension. Fed up having a huge bloated squad full of absolute dross most of whom have no resale.
PMB1872
Well-Known Member
We also need them from a European squad perspective. There no doubt though that players like Hickey, Doig, McGinn (yes I know he wouldn’t have signed for us), and even the often slated and debated McKenna, Porteous and Ferguson would have had the right level of effort and commitment that’s too often been missing from our recent starting lineups.
Latest development with Lewis Ferguson makes him a probable target.
I'm being facetious
Macdonsj
Well-Known Member
first part - totally agree
second part - not the long term ones we've had, largely a few games here and there - outwith Hatate, they've not had a Danilo, Cortes, Sima situation
Ten Ton Tony
Well-Known Member
We literally signed them from Premier League teams.
tazzabear
Well-Known Member
Do you think it’s any different in Japanese, Korean or Chinese leagues?
Or Scandinavian, German or Dutch?
Or anywhere else.
Davie Weir Loyal
Well-Known Member
Splitting hairs a bit here. Point is, across our squad, they've spent the majority of their career playing in the Championship. In fact in Goldson's case he barely played that level either. A very low level of footballer
ChildOfGoth
Well-Known Member
Butland - Man Utd
Sterling - Chelsea
Tav - Wigan
Goldson - Brighton
Souttar - Hearts
Lundstram - sheff Utd
Lawrence - derby
Cantwell - Norwich ( edit )
Sima - Brighton
Roofe - Anderlecht
Silva - wolves
Doesn’t that amount to Tav Cantwell and Lawrence
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Ten Ton Tony
Well-Known Member
You're not very intelligent are you?
Probably about half of the Scotland Squad that qualified for the Euros are playing in the Championship.
Certainly less than in the SPFL.
Certainly less than in the SPFL.
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Davie Weir Loyal
Well-Known Member
I bet you stay to the end to clap the players off
Hurricane Run
Well-Known Member
The league itself isnt the issue. I bet i could go through the EPL right now and pick an outstanding team of ex-championship players. The problem is the players themselves. We are recruiting players who arent winners.
This 100%!
Guys like Laurence,Dowell,Davies etc should be nowhere near our club!
Ten Ton Tony
Well-Known Member
Is that supposed to be an insult?
temperance
Well-Known Member
You
You saved me a job.
temperance
Well-Known Member
But land came from Crystal Palace, also a PL side.
