A balanced view of the books

TheRamblingGer

TheRamblingGer

Well-Known Member
I'm like a large proportion of the support and won't really understand the accounts released today/can't be bothered to look at it in depth myself.

I know there will be plenty of folk putting out reviews, both positive and negative, but I asked a friend who is an accountant to put together a wee idiots guide for me.

Maybe some of you will find it useful, maybe not, but here it is:

A closer look at the accounts
 
TheRamblingGer said:
I'm like a large proportion of the support and won't really understand the accounts released today/can't be bothered to look at it in depth myself.

I know there will be plenty of folk putting out reviews, both positive and negative, but I asked a friend who is an accountant to put together a wee idiots guide for me.

Maybe some of you will find it useful, maybe not, but here it is:

A closer look at the accounts
Click to expand...
Excellent post, cheers!

I commented on another thread regarding the Bassey, Aribo deals with the money not adding up.

Looks like we never got near the reported fee for either which is dissapointing to say the least.
 
bkkbear said:
Or just maybe they were sold after the reporting year and aren't included.
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The article does state that, since July 22 to present day we have sold players to the value of 19.9 million

The accounts also highlight that guaranteed player sales since the yearend (i.e. 1 July 2022 up to present day) amount to £19.9m. This means that the Bassey deal of a reported €19m guaranteed up front, together with Aribo of £6m appear to be slightly over estimated, but we will see more accurately in the accounts next year
 
Awritenobad said:
They were sold after June 30th so that money is in next year’s accounts.
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Yes I know. The report also comments on future income from July 22 to present day as stated below:

The accounts also highlight that guaranteed player sales since the yearend (i.e. 1 July 2022 up to present day) amount to £19.9m. This means that the Bassey deal of a reported €19m guaranteed up front, together with Aribo of £6m appear to be slightly over estimated, but we will see more accurately in the accounts next year
 
TheRamblingGer said:
I'm like a large proportion of the support and won't really understand the accounts released today/can't be bothered to look at it in depth myself.

I know there will be plenty of folk putting out reviews, both positive and negative, but I asked a friend who is an accountant to put together a wee idiots guide for me.

Maybe some of you will find it useful, maybe not, but here it is:

A closer look at the accounts
Click to expand...
This is a good reality check and highlights, as mentioned, the good work financially being usurped by the Mike Ashley pay out. I think there is still room to grow commercial revenue but the trading model is a concern and could impact us in January if we're expecting some good signing to come in.
 
CrookyBlueBear said:
The article does state that, since July 22 to present day we have sold players to the value of 19.9 million

The accounts also highlight that guaranteed player sales since the yearend (i.e. 1 July 2022 up to present day) amount to £19.9m. This means that the Bassey deal of a reported €19m guaranteed up front, together with Aribo of £6m appear to be slightly over estimated, but we will see more accurately in the accounts next year
Click to expand...
Seen it suggested elsewhere that the seemingly reduced figure is because Agents fees, payments to player etc will have been deducted before arriving at that figure. It’s effectively the fee net of those deductions.

No idea if that stands up though.
 
CrookyBlueBear said:
The article does state that, since July 22 to present day we have sold players to the value of 19.9 million

The accounts also highlight that guaranteed player sales since the yearend (i.e. 1 July 2022 up to present day) amount to £19.9m. This means that the Bassey deal of a reported €19m guaranteed up front, together with Aribo of £6m appear to be slightly over estimated, but we will see more accurately in the accounts next year
Click to expand...
The accounts will look good next year, with champions league money , players sold.
However , we have few saleable assets now and europe in season 2023/2024 is a worry.
In business, you need to plan and look ahead.
 
Valley Bluenose said:
Seen it suggested elsewhere that the seemingly reduced figure is because Agents fees, payments to player etc will have been deducted before arriving at that figure. It’s effectively the fee net of those deductions.

No idea if that stands up though.
Click to expand...
Yeah I get that there is deductions on all transfers, just disheartening to see that when it is reported about £6 million and 20million euro up front fee for our players it doesn’t look like we walk away with anywhere near that.
 
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CrookyBlueBear said:
Yes I know. The report also comments on future income from July 22 to present day as stated below:

The accounts also highlight that guaranteed player sales since the yearend (i.e. 1 July 2022 up to present day) amount to £19.9m. This means that the Bassey deal of a reported €19m guaranteed up front, together with Aribo of £6m appear to be slightly over estimated, but we will see more accurately in the accounts next year
Click to expand...

Apologies mate, I thought you meant about no money being in these accounts.
 
Long-term debt is still significant but required due to the significant capital expenditure.

Can someone clarify or expend on this?
 
The lack of sellable assets in the squad is a huge worry, also if we don't get into the champs league or go on a good Europa League run next year we will not looking too pretty.
 
DC Anchor said:
Long-term debt is still significant but required due to the significant capital expenditure.

Can someone clarify or expend on this?
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There’s a section in the blog which states moneys owed through directors loans has actually increased (we paid off old loans to King and others) but had to loan money again from directors to fund significant capital expenditure.

Capital expenditure likely being training ground/ stadium improvements and development of Edmiston House/ Blue Sky Lounge.
 
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Thank you for taking the time to provide this summary for the accounts.
Really frustrating the whole SD saga as I thought this would be no more as in costing the club.

The squad issue is a disgrace and Wilson should be sacked before the AGM.
 
Thanks for the article.

The main thing and major concern o take from it is:

If we thought that the most recent transfer window was bad for signings, the next Summer transfer window could well be very poor indeed.

we have a most likely at least 6 or 8 players leaving in one way or another: Bosman's / contract expires / retirement/ "let go".

We have no Patterson or Bassey type sellable players left.
Morelos, Kent etc will go for zilch or at most a nominal fee.
They were once being touted for inexcess of £10m each.

The DoF should walk for allowing this to happen. His words were, he was relaxed about it.

Most ire and anger at the AGM should be towards him, for the above and his poor recruitment record.
 
EK1422 said:
There’s a section in the blog which states moneys owed through directors loans has actually increased (we paid off old loans to King and others) but had to loan money again from them to fund significant capital expenditure.

Capital expenditure likely being training ground/ stadium improvements and development of Edmiston House/ Blue Sky Lounge.
Click to expand...
Probably this:

31. CAPITAL COMMITMENTS
At the year end, The Group had contracted for stadium and building improvements amounting to £9.63 million.
 
I don’t worry as much as most about the “lack of sellable assets.”

I don’t think our recent group of signings are inherently poor players, more that they are poorly coached and playing for a team decimated by injury.

The worry for me is persevering with Gio too long that we never see these players reach their potential (I understand it isn’t 100% Gio’s fault that each player is underperforming but a better coach gets more out of these individuals).
 
EK1422 said:
There’s a section in the blog which states moneys owed through directors loans has actually increased (we paid off old loans to King and others) but had to loan money again from them to fund significant capital expenditure.

Capital expenditure likely being training ground/ stadium improvements and development of Edmiston House/ Blue Sky Lounge.
Click to expand...
We cleared the director loans but then took a total of £12m from Bennett and Wolhardt. Its secures against EH so it looks as though they are paying for the rising costs of EH
 
CrookyBlueBear said:
Excellent post, cheers!

I commented on another thread regarding the Bassey, Aribo deals with the money not adding up.

Looks like we never got near the reported fee for either which is dissapointing to say the least.
Click to expand...
Mate the Aribo and Bassey money has nothing to do with the accounts that have been released, those fees will be shown in next years accounts figures as will the champions league revenues. I’d imagine that next years figures will be even better reading than this years
 
CrookyBlueBear said:
Excellent post, cheers!

I commented on another thread regarding the Bassey, Aribo deals with the money not adding up.

Looks like we never got near the reported fee for either which is dissapointing to say the least.
Click to expand...
Eh?

They were both sold after the financial year end.
 
TheRamblingGer said:
I'm like a large proportion of the support and won't really understand the accounts released today/can't be bothered to look at it in depth myself.

I know there will be plenty of folk putting out reviews, both positive and negative, but I asked a friend who is an accountant to put together a wee idiots guide for me.

Maybe some of you will find it useful, maybe not, but here it is:

A closer look at the accounts
Click to expand...
Thank you for a very informative report ... containing some very encouraging facts ... as well as some that raise very real concerns. We are not out of the woods yet but, hopefully, we are getting there.
 
AndythephotoDr said:
Mate the Aribo and Bassey money has nothing to do with the accounts that have been released, those fees will be shown in next years accounts figures as will the champions league revenues. I’d imagine that next years figures will be even better reading than this years
Click to expand...
Yip I get that, but as I said the report also mentions transfer fees received from July 22 to present day which is 19.9 million - that is the Bassey and Aribo money
 
Craigie said:
Eh?

They were both sold after the financial year end.
Click to expand...
The accounts also highlight that guaranteed player sales since the yearend (i.e. 1 July 2022 up to present day) amount to £19.9m. This means that the Bassey deal of a reported €19m guaranteed up front, together with Aribo of £6m appear to be slightly over estimated, but we will see more accurately in the accounts next year
 
I love this misinformed nonsense that we have no sellable assets like Paterson and Bassey. Just 18 months ago, neither Paterson or Bassey were anywhere near sellable assets! People need to stop talking nonsense. McCann, King, Lowry and Tillman if we secure him, are as much sellable assets as the other two were 18 months ago, let’s see if they come on as quickly as the other two did.
 
TheRamblingGer said:
I'm like a large proportion of the support and won't really understand the accounts released today/can't be bothered to look at it in depth myself.

I know there will be plenty of folk putting out reviews, both positive and negative, but I asked a friend who is an accountant to put together a wee idiots guide for me.

Maybe some of you will find it useful, maybe not, but here it is:

A closer look at the accounts
Click to expand...
Excellent analysis thanks for posting.
 
Wilson is costing the board it's good will.

Wilson has overseen an utter mess of a squad rebuild.

Wilson is a key figure in us moving forward as a sustainable club. But he's currently showing Martin Bain levels of ability.

The boards failure to oust Wilson will be the end of them. I'm absolutely certain of it. It's just how much damage limitation can be done over the next couple of transfer windows.

Wilson is the key problem.
 
AndythephotoDr said:
Mate the Aribo and Bassey money has nothing to do with the accounts that have been released, those fees will be shown in next years accounts figures as will the champions league revenues. I’d imagine that next years figures will be even better reading than this years
Click to expand...
No, the approx £19m income from the sale of Aribo and Bassey isn't included in the accounts, but nor are the outgoings for Davies, Yilmaz, Matondo, Tillman (loan fee) and Colak, so a very hefty chunk of that income has already been spent.
 
“ Park, Bennett etc. have put their money where their mouth is and got the club into a position in a relatively short period of time which was inconceivable a few years ago. They have, however, in my opinion, been let down by the Director of Football and the mismanagement of the current squad. It is difficult to see where the next significant player sale will arise from. Many fans see a squad overhaul required ASAP and where the finance for this comes is not evidently clear which is a huge concern for the quality of the squad going forward. ”

^^^^^^

This excerpt from the article conclusions stands out for me. I said almost exactly the same thing only this morning in the office.

The collective values of Kent, Morelos and Kamara have dropped off a cliff. All three should have been sold in the summer when their stock was at its highest.

“Criminally mismanaged” is how the author describes this and it’s hard to disagree.
 
Gios_Gillet said:
The lack of sellable assets in the squad is a huge worry, also if we don't get into the champs league or go on a good Europa League run next year we will not looking too pretty.
Click to expand...
12 month ago you would have been described as nuts if you said that Patterson and Basseey would be sold for a combined 30+million within a year.

Football is fluid in what can happen in a month neve4mind a year
 
TheRamblingGer said:
I'm like a large proportion of the support and won't really understand the accounts released today/can't be bothered to look at it in depth myself.

I know there will be plenty of folk putting out reviews, both positive and negative, but I asked a friend who is an accountant to put together a wee idiots guide for me.

Maybe some of you will find it useful, maybe not, but here it is:

A closer look at the accounts
Click to expand...
Good effort
 
Arminius said:
“ Park, Bennett etc. have put their money where their mouth is and got the club into a position in a relatively short period of time which was inconceivable a few years ago. They have, however, in my opinion, been let down by the Director of Football and the mismanagement of the current squad. It is difficult to see where the next significant player sale will arise from. Many fans see a squad overhaul required ASAP and where the finance for this comes is not evidently clear which is a huge concern for the quality of the squad going forward. ”

^^^^^^

This excerpt from the article conclusions stands out for me. I said almost exactly the same thing only this morning in the office.

The collective values of Kent, Morelos and Kamara have dropped off a cliff. All three should have been sold in the summer when their stock was at its highest.

“Criminally mismanaged” is how the author describes this and it’s hard to disagree.
Click to expand...
You can’t just sell players that don’t want to move on at that stage
 
Don’t know if anyone knows the answer but Is it correct that we have front loaded the capital expenditure in NEH?

I understand the majority of the cost was to be met through the sale of the part Albion car park but that didn’t happen,, I’m not sure if this is still a possibility, anyone know?

The project is significantly over spent and late as well, not good at all.

Given our path to financial sustainability, I don’t understand why we would commit this level of front end spend for a long term commercial asset and income stream like NEH, the normal practice is to finance and pay as you earn so to speak.

On the infamous ‘4th Pillar’ player trading. The failings of Wilson become evermore apparent as each day passes.
I hold him and Robertson responsible for most things negative surrounding our club today, Gio isn’t the answer and isn't free of blame but he is taking a lot of hits on behalf of those 2 at the moment.
 
Arkansasgerstill said:
I love this misinformed nonsense that we have no sellable assets like Paterson and Bassey. Just 18 months ago, neither Paterson or Bassey were anywhere near sellable assets! People need to stop talking nonsense. McCann, King, Lowry and Tillman if we secure him, are as much sellable assets as the other two were 18 months ago, let’s see if they come on as quickly as the other two did.
Click to expand...

These guys have got to be playing in a team that plays some form of good football and that has a confidence about themselves. I see neither under Gio. Also, by not being in Europe or biggest shop window is gone.
 
Beanyrfc79 said:
12 month ago you would have been described as nuts if you said that Patterson and Basseey would be sold for a combined 30+million within a year.

Football is fluid in what can happen in a month neve4mind a year
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Yea fair point mate, hopefully it comes to pass and some players emerge that develop like Bassey did.
 
TheRamblingGer said:
I'm like a large proportion of the support and won't really understand the accounts released today/can't be bothered to look at it in depth myself.

I know there will be plenty of folk putting out reviews, both positive and negative, but I asked a friend who is an accountant to put together a wee idiots guide for me.

Maybe some of you will find it useful, maybe not, but here it is:

A closer look at the accounts
Click to expand...
Thanks TRG and again thanks to your friend, a lot of information made a whole lot clearer.
 
TheRamblingGer said:
I'm like a large proportion of the support and won't really understand the accounts released today/can't be bothered to look at it in depth myself.

I know there will be plenty of folk putting out reviews, both positive and negative, but I asked a friend who is an accountant to put together a wee idiots guide for me.

Maybe some of you will find it useful, maybe not, but here it is:

A closer look at the accounts
Click to expand...
Can’t argue with any of that - the conclusion should worry us all unfortunately but like I said can’t argue with it
 
JamesMc said:
So our debt increased and our long term debt is significant ? What debts are these ? And who to
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Over £10m to Bennett and over £1m to Wolhardt. These are on a long-term repayment plan. These are secured against EH so to me it's them.ehk are funding the increased costs of EH
 
Artful Dodger said:
That’s what I would like to know. What is our overall debt and what expenditure are the alluding to?
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See post #18 for details of the circa £10m capital expenditure we are committed to. I assume that is the majority/part of it.

Dunno about overall debt but, from memory, our outstanding loans are circa £12m to Bennett and Wolhardt, circa £3m to ScoGov/SPFL (CoVid thing) and circa another £2m commercial loan. To perhaps offset that a bit, we do have circa £13m cash in the bank.
 
Gazza4d said:
Thanks for the article.

The main thing and major concern o take from it is:

If we thought that the most recent transfer window was bad for signings, the next Summer transfer window could well be very poor indeed.

we have a most likely at least 6 or 8 players leaving in one way or another: Bosman's / contract expires / retirement/ "let go".

We have no Patterson or Bassey type sellable players left.
Morelos, Kent etc will go for zilch or at most a nominal fee.
They were once being touted for inexcess of £10m each.

The DoF should walk for allowing this to happen. His words were, he was relaxed about it.

Most ire and anger at the AGM should be towards him, for the above and his poor recruitment record.
Click to expand...

Was Bassey a £20m sellable asset in Nov last year?
 
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