Abolish Offside? Discussion

Unicorse

Unicorse

Well-Known Member
Obviously the Man Utd v Coventry is the most recently high profile example of VAR and offside being a controversial issue in the game

The main reason is:

- the nature of 'clear and obvious error'

- the thickness of the lines

- the moment to draw the lines when the ball was struck (20millisecond difference in frames can be the difference between on and offside)

Wengers suggestion of giving advantage to the striker is interesting but just moves the 'fault line' and makes things just as confusing


Other suggestions I have read is change the rule so that it's only offside if 2 attacking players are in an 'offside' position. This happens less regularly meaning fewer goals being chalked off. It would change the way the game is played if 1 player is allowed further up the pitch

Another suggestion is scrap offside completely

They scrapped the away goals rule which has proven to increase goals in European ties

Is it worth doing the same with offside?

staceywest.net

Rethinking Football: Offside – Is It Time To Get Rid? | The Stacey West

I did a couple of articles in this series, one on discipline and another on cup competitions. Today, it’s time to look at a law [...]
staceywest.net staceywest.net


Discuss
 
GovanFront4 said:
An utterly ridiculous idea pushed by people who blatantly do not understand the sport.
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You replied within seconds of me posting this

Did you enjoy the article I linked to?

Including content from Marco Van Basten and Wenger, do you think they doesn't understand the sport?

Or did you just want to dive in with an opinion without potentially opening your mind to discussion?

Hmmm
 
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You can't scrap it, it would completely change the game. I think there should be a clear gap between the two players, none of this drawing lines to see if someone's shoulder or knee cap is where the line should be drawn, but that's just my opinion. Regardless of how they do it decisions will be subjective and open to debate.
 
Gdawg said:
You can't scrap it, it would completely change the game. I think there should be a clear gap between the two players, none of this drawing lines to see if someone's shoulder or knee cap is where the line should be drawn, but that's just my opinion. Regardless of how they do it decisions will be subjective and open to debate.
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Yeah but then you still have borderline decisions same as you do now, it's just the criteria changes.
 
Unicorse said:
Please explain

Even if I agree and disagree I'd like your thoughts
Click to expand...

You seem annoyed that people disagree with the stupid idea.

I remember playing at under 10s where you were only offside inside the 18 yard box. It was chaos. Boys literally standing on the edge of the box waiting for a pass.

It would make football completely unwatchable.

Wenger obviously knows football, but he also thinks attackers should basically get a big heard start when it comes to offside.
 
There was a time when offside was 'standing in a position to gain advantage' Now it's ridiculous where a toe from someone whose body could be behind the defender is deemed offside. The 'rule' of giving the attacker the benefit of the doubt before VAR, not sure if it was ever official or carried out, but it is for me the sensible way. If VAR is to make the decision then for me there has to be a gap between attacker and defender.
 
DerHammer88 said:
You seem annoyed that people disagree with the stupid idea.

I remember playing at under 10s where you were only offside inside the 18 yard box. It was chaos. Boys literally standing on the edge of the box waiting for a pass.

It would make football completely unwatchable.

Wenger obviously knows football, but he also thinks attackers should basically get a big heard start when it comes to offside.
Click to expand...
Annoyed?

I haven't given my opinion

What annoys me is when people go studs up into a discussion claiming anyone who contemplates changing the rule 'blatently doesn't understand the sport'

The offside rule have changed several times in the last 15 years, it's worthy of conversation
 
Unicorse said:
Annoyed?

I haven't given my opinion

What annoys me is when people go studs up into a discussion claiming anyone who contemplates changing the rule 'blatently doesn't understand the sport'

The offside rule have changed several times in the last 15 years, it's worthy of conversation
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The offside rule changing is different to the offside rule being abolished.
 
Unicorse said:
Annoyed?

I haven't given my opinion

What annoys me is when people go studs up into a discussion claiming anyone who contemplates changing the rule 'blatently doesn't understand the sport'

The offside rule have changed several times in the last 15 years, it's worthy of conversation
Click to expand...
You didn't propose amending it, your thread title says abolishing it. Which is an incredibly nonsensical idea. Also, I'm not sure there is a genuine controversy from the weekend -Coventry scored a goal that was correctly ruled offside.
 
scrapping offside would kill the game. It would turn into Basketball. It would be a joke.

We need to change it. I think the full body idea is the best idea. This millimetre of a toe being ahead, something that is far from clear to the naked eye is not really working for everyone.
 
Unicorse said:
Obviously the Man Utd v Coventry is the most recently high profile example of VAR and offside being a controversial issue in the game

The main reason is:

- the nature of 'clear and obvious error'

- the thickness of the lines

- the moment to draw the lines when the ball was struck (20millisecond difference in frames can be the difference between on and offside)

Wengers suggestion of giving advantage to the striker is interesting but just moves the 'fault line' and makes things just as confusing


Other suggestions I have read is change the rule so that it's only offside if 2 attacking players are in an 'offside' position. This happens less regularly meaning fewer goals being chalked off. It would change the way the game is played if 1 player is allowed further up the pitch

Another suggestion is scrap offside completely

They scrapped the away goals rule which has proven to increase goals in European ties

Is it worth doing the same with offside?

staceywest.net

Rethinking Football: Offside – Is It Time To Get Rid? | The Stacey West

I did a couple of articles in this series, one on discipline and another on cup competitions. Today, it’s time to look at a law [...]
staceywest.net staceywest.net


Discuss
Click to expand...
Clear and obvious doesn’t apply to offside.
 
GovanFront4 said:
I think Wenger gets paid ridiculous sums of money to come up with ideas. I don't think he genuinely believes it will improve football.
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I'm not so sure, I don't think he would suggest or put forward an idea that would get laughed out of court by the powers that be.

I'm sure he has given it a lot of thought.
 
Unicorse said:
Annoyed?

I haven't given my opinion

What annoys me is when people go studs up into a discussion claiming anyone who contemplates changing the rule 'blatently doesn't understand the sport'

The offside rule have changed several times in the last 15 years, it's worthy of conversation
Click to expand...
It's not the disagreeing with you I have to laugh at. It's the aggressive and dismissive manner in which it's delivered. Social media in a nut shell.
 
'Clear and obvious error' is not a part of the offside VAR interventions though. It never has been, otherwise the VAR would be intervening for every offside decision. So I'm not sure why folk keep bringing 'clear and obvious error' into the equation. It has no relevance here. The offside check is part of the review of any match changing situation, such as a goal. Nothing more. It is also an objective, rather than subjective, decision. It is a factual decision, effectively, rather than a matter of judgement.

As for 'moving the line' that won't work either. If you say, for example, there has to be daylight between the attacker and the defender then you simply shift the point of debate to whether there actually IS 1mm of clear space between the two or whether there is, in fact, a 1mm overlap.

We are currently trusting technology to come up with the answers after more than a hundred years of trusting someone's eyeballs. I know which of the two my money is on to be more likely to get it right - and its not the human running the line.

If we are to have an offside law I think most would be happy with the technology if it were timely. The EPL are addressing that next season with the introduction of the semi-automated stuff we saw in action for our Play-Off against PSV when Dessers looked to be offside before playing that exquisite pass into Matondo for his goal. We got a quick decision, with the AI graphics, showing he was actually onside by a wafer-thin margin. We are unlikely to see that technology introduced in Scotland any time soon though.

I'm sure I read a report that VAR has increased 'correct' decisions from circa 95% to something like 99%. Small margins, but every correct decision has to be welcomed. The reaction because 'David', metaphorically, didn't get to beat 'Goliath' at the weekend is bollocks.
 
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DerHammer88 said:
You seem annoyed that people disagree with the stupid idea.

I remember playing at under 10s where you were only offside inside the 18 yard box. It was chaos. Boys literally standing on the edge of the box waiting for a pass.

It would make football completely unwatchable.

Wenger obviously knows football, but he also thinks attackers should basically get a big heard start when it comes to offside.
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I'm not sure that the chaotic nature of football for 10 year olds is simply down to lack of offside !!!

I've no idea if it would improve the game or make it unwatchable, but I'd be interested to see FIFA stage an experimental game.
 
Johnny Yen said:
I'm not so sure, I don't think he would suggest or put forward an idea that would get laughed out of court by the powers that be.

I'm sure he has given it a lot of thought.
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I may be wrong but I'm sure he didn't push the idea when he was involved on a day to day basis, but has proposed it in his more technical role behind the scenes. I think it's him trying to justify his position.

I've not heard of one valid argument for it improving games apart from the dumb argument of 'more goals'.
 
BertsEBT said:
You didn't propose amending it, your thread title says abolishing it. Which is an incredibly nonsensical idea. Also, I'm not sure there is a genuine controversy from the weekend -Coventry scored a goal that was correctly ruled offside.
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Did you read the OP?
 
I’m sure this was trialled for a short time in something like the Dryburgh cup, and was a complete disaster, where defenders dropped even deeper than they do now.
A quick google showed that it was indeed the Drybourgh cup, but offside wasn’t scrapped, it was brought back from the half way line to a line drawn level with the penalty area.
 
Unicorse said:
You replied within seconds of me posting this

Did you enjoy the article I linked to?

Including content from Marco Van Basten and Wenger, do you think they doesn't understand the sport?

Or did you just want to dive in with an opinion without potentially opening your mind to discussion?

Hmmm
Click to expand...
If Van Basten and Wenger are suggesting scrapping offside then they don't understand the sport either. Or they are just looking for attention from idiots who read that pish.
 
Ridiculous idea. To make it simple to understand,it would cut out midfield play and change it into an entirely game all together.
 
for defences as well at attackers offside is a big part of the game.defenders work on it in training and for fwd’s timing your run to beat an offside trap is a skill.
 
If there was no offside football would be about teams putting three big guys in the box and the other players punting it long to them to fight for it. Plus a couple of divers to win free kicks to punt even more balls into the box.

Every game would be like watching a Martin O'Neill team play a Martin O'Neill team.
 
Unicorse said:
Obviously the Man Utd v Coventry is the most recently high profile example of VAR and offside being a controversial issue in the game

The main reason is:

- the nature of 'clear and obvious error'

- the thickness of the lines

- the moment to draw the lines when the ball was struck (20millisecond difference in frames can be the difference between on and offside)

Wengers suggestion of giving advantage to the striker is interesting but just moves the 'fault line' and makes things just as confusing


Other suggestions I have read is change the rule so that it's only offside if 2 attacking players are in an 'offside' position. This happens less regularly meaning fewer goals being chalked off. It would change the way the game is played if 1 player is allowed further up the pitch

Another suggestion is scrap offside completely

They scrapped the away goals rule which has proven to increase goals in European ties

Is it worth doing the same with offside?

staceywest.net

Rethinking Football: Offside – Is It Time To Get Rid? | The Stacey West

I did a couple of articles in this series, one on discipline and another on cup competitions. Today, it’s time to look at a law [...]
staceywest.net staceywest.net


Discuss
Click to expand...
We experimented with no offside outside the penalty box line in the Drybrough Cup and it was far more entertaining! The rules need to be changed as the disallowed Coventry goal shows! `In close decisions the benefit should be given to the attacker` is supposed to be the rule/guidance but it was clearly not applied in that case! It makes you wonder who is controlling football! What would SKY/FA/EPL prefer, revenue and advertising wise? MC v Coventry or an all Manchester final with world wide interest?
 
I look back at the semi final goal against Celtic under Van Bronckhorst, Bassey is left as onside by the official when IMO VAR would have ruled out our winner.
I also hate now when we score and I am almost half waiting for goals to be disallowed for something that happened in the minute before the goal. We are re-refereeing games.

I understand we would have benefited (and have this season as well) by VAR being used, but it takes away from the game for me.
 
People are going to be talking about "clear and obvious error" in relation to offside decisions despite the fact it doesn't apply to them forever aren't they?
 
muttley said:
Only if the entire body of the forward is beyond the defender should offside be flagged.
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there will still be offside decisions made where a pixel shows a players arse in line with the defender, offside if fine as it is.
 
If it can't be cleared up in less than a minute, on pitch decision stands. Microscopic analysis of every single thing going on isn't moving the game forward. Football often isn't black and white and it's time we embrace the grey areas.
 
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