Alves and Cardoso at Thistles 1st goal

C

Corriebear

Well-Known Member
The more I watch the highlights, the more angry I get with us causing such a stupid free kick.

First, both Alves and Cardoso let the ball bounce, something that should never happen. Next, Alves appears to run away from the ball leaving it to the Thistle striker before Cardoso completely mistimes his jump, causing him to land on their player.

If Kiernan had been involved in that calamity, this place would have slaughtered him.

While the defence has been an upgrade on last season, the fact we've only kept one clean sheet after 6 games is a worry.
 
normally Bruno takes care of heading the ball clear, but they were both taking up a similar space and it was almost as though Bruno thought to himself "right, here, you learn how to do it", Cardoso tried to head the ball away and fucked up.

It was never a free kick, though. The striker backed into Cardoso.
 
Awful from both of them. But what a CB needs to realise is that sometimes you cannot win the ball. Cardoso needed to accept this at the time he decided to jump all over the CF. Just hold your ground, hold up the CF facing his own goal and we can deal with it
 
Defensively both goals were a disgrace. The build up to the free kick like mentioned in the op. Then the wall splits which again is poor resulting in the deflection taking it past big Wes leaving him with no chance.

Then you have the second which is schoolboy stuff. Tav miles behind the rest of the defence playing the Thistle player onside. The way the rest of the defence reacts to that is a joke. Arms up and stop playing. Play to the whistle do your job.
 
Corriebear said:
The more I watch the highlights, the more angry I get with us causing such a stupid free kick.

First, both Alves and Cardoso let the ball bounce, something that should never happen. Next, Alves appears to run away from the ball leaving it to the Thistle striker before Cardoso completely mistimes his jump, causing him to land on their player.

If Kiernan had been involved in that calamity, this place would have slaughtered him.

While the defence has been an upgrade on last season, the fact we've only kept one clean sheet after 6 games is a worry.
Click to expand...

I'm not convinced the defence IS an upgrade from last season. All it takes is for teams to score one against us & we completely collapse.

A complete loser mentality that's been apparent since halfway through Warburton's era
 
For the first goal as said you don't let the ball bounce. You don't challenge like that, doing so makes it easy for the attacker to go down and get a free kick. You position a wall and if you are in the wall you stand firm and take what's coming. Those three issues are basic defending.

For the second goal you teach kids that one player sets the line, every one else plays in front of that player. We were a shambles. For both goals these are very basic mistakes that should not be happening. Those two goals were as bad as anything we lost last season. This is simple coaching.
 
audiorealis said:
It was never a free kick, though. The striker backed into Cardoso.
Click to expand...



Cardoso fucked it. Went hill climbing a decade early and we got penalised with the free kick.

Then a poorly constructed wall with our 90 capped star jumping out from same allowing free kick to deflect off him and affording Wes little chance.
 
Cardoso is certainly beginning to worry me but he is young and needs time.
 
audiorealis said:
normally Bruno takes care of heading the ball clear, but they were both taking up a similar space and it was almost as though Bruno thought to himself "right, here, you learn how to do it", Cardoso tried to head the ball away and fucked up.

It was never a free kick, though. The striker backed into Cardoso.
Click to expand...
Thats the way I saw it too. What worried me more though is the heads went down and instead of saying right we are a better team than thistle, lets put this right, we let in another bad goal
 
The whole thing from giving the ball away upfield to letting it bounce to giving away a cheap free kick to the wall collapsing was amateur.

They are a partnership still in the making but there's no excuse for not attacking the ball
 
Captain_Buns said:
I'm not convinced the defence IS an upgrade from last season. All it takes is for teams to score one against us & we completely collapse.

A complete loser mentality that's been apparent since halfway through Warburton's era
Click to expand...

Spot on.

People keep repeating the mantra that it's an upgrade because we've added a celebrated, if admittedly ageing international defender, but the solidity we expected Alves to bring to the back hasn't really happened.

Next week he, and indeed the whole team, really needs to rise to the occasion. We need him to show us he's not a spent force and still a big game player.
 
A comedy of errors and the op hasn't even touched on the point that alves turned his back on the ball in the wall

School boy stuff
 
Northhiglander said:
For the first goal as said you don't let the ball bounce. You don't challenge like that, doing so makes it easy for the attacker to go down and get a free kick. You position a wall and if you are in the wall you stand firm and take what's coming. Those three issues are basic defending.

For the second goal you teach kids that one player sets the line, every one else plays in front of that player. We were a shambles. For both goals these are very basic mistakes that should not be happening. Those two goals were as bad as anything we lost last season. This is simple coaching.
Click to expand...

These two shouldn't need that type of coaching though.
 
Even when we are doing reasonably well in a game we always have these moments of poor defensive play, we've relied on equally poor attacking from the opposition to get away with it. Thistle took advantage of it, the manky mob undoubtedly will
 
Its a bit of a conundrum the defence.

We actually do look a much more solid defensive unit. Not ususally out of position, normally pretty solid defending crosses. Wes has barely had to make a save all season so far.

But we keep on losing ridiculous goals. Mainly due to individual errors rather than being unorganised. Last season any time we were attacked we looked loke we would concede. Thats certaonly not the case this season.
 
The second goal was Alves' fault. You can't play an offside trap that deep.

All I will say is remember Amo early on in DA's treble season. He looked all over the shop and was booed by his own fans. Then consider his performance in the Cup Final that clinched the Treble.

It takes time. No matter how many forum posts we see or fans being pyoor ragin man, it takes time.
 
Between this game and getting ragdolled by Simon Murray, I'm really not convinced by Cardoso. At times he looks a really classy player but his decision making is suspect at times.
 
Vidmar said:
The second goal was Alves' fault. You can't play an offside trap that deep.

All I will say is remember Amo early on in DA's treble season. He looked all over the shop and was booed by his own fans. Then consider his performance in the Cup Final that clinched the Treble.

It takes time. No matter how many forum posts we see or fans being pyoor ragin man, it takes time.
Click to expand...
This is about the top and bottom of it .

World class or not ,defensive partnerships aren't built instantly ,they have to be worked at.

Cardoso is a young guy with definite promise but there will be more mistakes this season , I've no doubts about that.
 
Being brutally honest, it reminded me of the idiotic free kick we conceded just before that winning goal in Luxembourg :eek:
 
Cardoso seems to misjudge the flight of the ball a lot when it's in the air and I'm sure he will get better the more he gets used to the fact that Scottish football is played this way sometimes.
 
audiorealis said:
normally Bruno takes care of heading the ball clear, but they were both taking up a similar space and it was almost as though Bruno thought to himself "right, here, you learn how to do it", Cardoso tried to head the ball away and fucked up.

It was never a free kick, though. The striker backed into Cardoso.
Click to expand...

Maybe so but if Cardoso simply stands his ground their striker is going nowhere and we maybe aren't having this conversation.

It was schoolboy defending and he is raw so he will do that from time to time. Doesn't excuse Alves' pitiful efforts in the wall afterwards.

The 2nd goal was embarrassing on multiple levels, Tav will rightly get flack for being the deepest player in the line but there were 3-4 players at fault in the move.
 
Vidmar said:
The second goal was Alves' fault. You can't play an offside trap that deep.

All I will say is remember Amo early on in DA's treble season. He looked all over the shop and was booed by his own fans. Then consider his performance in the Cup Final that clinched the Treble.

It takes time. No matter how many forum posts we see or fans being pyoor ragin man, it takes time.
Click to expand...

I do agree with that though.

Even at 35 I can't believe Alves has suddenly forgotten how to defend since coming to Scotland.

I'd like to think he'll adapt and that Cardoso will improve alongside him, but I dread to think what'll happen to both players reputations in the eyes of the wider support if they both have another howler against the Beasts.
 
Teddyjohn said:
Between this game and getting ragdolled by Simon Murray, I'm really not convinced by Cardoso. At times he looks a really classy player but his decision making is suspect at times.
Click to expand...
There was also an incident at Ross county we Cardoso got turned inside out,by a player running at him,it's a worry.
 
Paisleyprod said:
Rubbish defending, it really was
Click to expand...

Our defending has been poor all season.

Look at the Motherwell goal, the amount of balls into the box, the Moult sitter...

The goals we conceded against Hibs were pathetic.

Hearts had chances, we stood and watched Lafferty miss a sitter.

Cant remember the Ross County goal tbh, the defending at times was panic stations.

Dundee's goal last week.

The defending on Friday night wa criminal at times.

We've kept the same full backs so no surprise we are weak out there. Alves defending at times has been poor ans although Cardoso has some positive attributes, his positioning, reading of the game and lack of aerial ability is a concern.

It's going to be really tested next Saturday.
 
stu4 said:
Cardoso fucked it. Went hill climbing a decade early and we got penalised with the free kick.

Then a poorly constructed wall with our 90 capped star jumping out from same allowing free kick to deflect off him and affording Wes little chance.
Click to expand...
The wall stays together,they don't score.
 
For all that Alves is a Euro Championship winning, Portugal-playing internationalist who has represented some wonderful teams across Europe, the massive elephant in the room is that he's simply not very good since he arrived.

I'm not even sure he's better than Clint Hill, to be honest.
 
I don't know the reasons for it, but we don't appear to be able to find central defenders that can concentrate for 90 minutes. Some of the goals we lose are criminal.
 
Linwoodbear said:
Thats the way I saw it too. What worried me more though is the heads went down and instead of saying right we are a better team than thistle, lets put this right, we let in another bad goal
Click to expand...
Me too, wasn't a free kick for me either. How many times did we see Kris Boyd back in like that and the defender would be awarded a free kick?
 
When your fullbacks practically make it a back 2 half the time your central defenders are going to look a lot worse than they are when the other team is attacking. That's not to say they've been perfect but if we had more balanced fullbacks we'd probably not concede as many (Though we'd also probably be creating a lot less chances if we didn't have Tavernier and Wallace with how we play)


Cardoso has been good the majority of the time he has played, as has Alves. I quite like Wilson but this non sense of him being as good as Cardoso is non sense and needs to stop. One moment he's shit but the second you get a chance to slag off another one of our players he's suddenly as good as someone else? Stop it
 
Clint Hill was at the heart of our defence that shipped five to them. Let's not rewrite history.
 
I thought they were poor at Hib's first goal as well, why Alves runs in behind Cardoso, leaving a huge gap for Murray to get is shot away is baffling. Alves has looked good on the ball and in the air but has been culpable on a few that we have shipped
 
At what point do we consider it a possibility that Alves is done? Lets be honest for a player of his experience and the level he's played at over the years he's been made to look very ordinary at times by incredibly average SPFL players. I hope he hasn't underestimated our league.
 
CaptainObjective said:
At what point do we consider it a possibility that Alves is done? Lets be honest for a player of his experience and the level he's played at over the years he's been made to look very ordinary at times by incredibly average SPFL players. I hope he hasn't underestimated our league.
Click to expand...


Maybe when he stops getting selected as a starter in the Portuguese national team.
 
audiorealis said:
normally Bruno takes care of heading the ball clear, but they were both taking up a similar space and it was almost as though Bruno thought to himself "right, here, you learn how to do it", Cardoso tried to head the ball away and fucked up.

It was never a free kick, though. The striker backed into Cardoso.
Click to expand...
Cardinal sin letting the ball bounce
 
Can't believe some of the shit I'm reading here. Our defence is worse than last year and Alves isn't a patch on Clint Hill?? We lost 2 bad goals on Tuesday but comments suggesting our central defence hasn't improved are ridiculous.
 
All of this would have been avoided tbf, if the Collum had the nuts to give the free kick for the exact same thing happening to Miller in their half.

Always told when i played centre half and right back that you never let the ball bounce if it's coming in, especially under pressure.
 
Why are we so bad at defending of late? Is it purely just down to the players we buy or is it simply we don't have the right people doing the coaching?

Our wing backs can't defend. We know that. However, we have an excellent, hugely experienced winner in defence alongside a guy who looks decent enough. Yet, any club can still challenge us and can still take goals off of us?

I think a massive part of the problem is we're not working hard enough in training. It can't all be down to the players.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Latest posts

Back
Top