Brazil 1970 - The Greatest of All Time

wee bud's pit boots said:
I can see the Barca equation but don't get the second part of your argument.

If the Brazil team of 1970 were playing in modern times, they be up to speed with today's techniques and training, diet etc. So the skill set would still be there.

As for Carlos Alberta's goal? Feck me, Clodoaldo's run out of defence, taking out maybe three Italians, Pele's imperious pass to his captain and you think that's Keystone Kops football?
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Bit unfair to compare a national team to a club side. Especially across different eras.

Some of the players from the 1970 Brazil team would be able to adapt to modern football, with different diets, training, sports science and the rest. Some of them wouldn't be able to cope with the speed football is played at now. It's never as simple as saying they'd have had access to x,y and z so they'd have still been what they were.

At the same time, some of the Barca players and modern footballers in general wouldn't have been able to cope with "old school" football either, when men were men and winning battles was as important as ability.

It's all hypothetical, but for me, Barcelona shades it by way of having Messi, best player of all time. I reckon even the Spain team of 2010 would beat them, probably 1 nil, same as everyone else.
 
Chocolateleftfoot said:
Bit unfair to compare a national team to a club side. Especially across different eras.

Some of the players from the 1970 Brazil team would be able to adapt to modern football, with different diets, training, sports science and the rest. Some of them wouldn't be able to cope with the speed football is played at now. It's never as simple as saying they'd have had access to x,y and z so they'd have still been what they were.

At the same time, some of the Barca players and modern footballers in general wouldn't have been able to cope with "old school" football either, when men were men and winning battles was as important as ability.

It's all hypothetical, but for me, Barcelona shades it by way of having Messi, best player of all time. I reckon even the Spain team of 2010 would beat them, probably 1 nil, same as everyone else.
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I'm not so sure on your argument that some of the1970 Brazilians not making the grade in the here and now. It's a close shave, I suppose. B-)

I'd say Puyol could be considered old school.

I am totally in agreement regards Messi.

I'd back 1970 Brazil to beat 2010 Spain however, all things being equal.

It's all about opinions I suppose.
 
Bluenote said:
Definitely the greatest team of all time. And possibly the best world cup finals I've watched, although West Germany 1974 comes very close, as does Italia '90 (though the final was poor) and in fact, the last world cup finals when Argentina won was a great tournament. I hope that this year's Euros are up to scratch.
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The WC final of 74 might come close for one reason.

Johan Cryuff and the Dutch.
 
wee bud's pit boots said:
I'm not so sure on your argument that some of the1970 Brazilians not making the grade in the here and now. It's a close shave, I suppose. B-)

I'd say Puyol could be considered old school.

I am totally in agreement regards Messi.

I'd back 1970 Brazil to beat 2010 Spain however, all things being equal.

It's all about opinions I suppose.
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It's not that they wouldn't make the grade, they were all obviously in the 1% club of their era, World Class players to a man.

It's just that there's different criteria to get there now that isn't just about training and diet.

Carlos Alberto has more talent in his left arse cheek than Andy Robertson, for example, but Andy Robertson can run 16km in a game.

The whole game just moves at a speed that 70s players wouldn't recognise. Some would adapt but in general, modern players are naturally bigger, stronger and more athletic. It's the same across all sports. Muhammed Ali might be the greatest boxer in history but he wouldn't get near a modern heavyweight.
 
I wished I'd have seen that Brazil 1970 team in "real time", rather than video clips.
I remember being gutted when their team in the 82 W.C were knocked out, probably up there with the Hungary 54 & Holland 74 sides as the greatest side never to win it?
 
mdingwall said:
The Greatest of All Time.

These are the goals from that Brazil side and they do not do the team justice. 6 games, 19 goals, 16 from open play, 3 from set pieces and no extra time, PSO or Pens in normal time needed. This is more than football. It pure artistry. The fact that we are raving about this side over 50 years later, should tell people how magnificent they were. Their legacy will never leave the pitch.


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Yes , Samba football
 
Nikau's Mullet said:
I wished I'd have seen that Brazil 1970 team in "real time", rather than video clips.
I remember being gutted when their team in the 82 W.C were knocked out, probably up there with the Hungary 54 & Holland 74 sides as the greatest side never to win it?
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The best side never to have won it, and one of the best I’ve ever seen even if I was only 9 years old :cool:
 
I remember my Mum taking us to the pictures in East Kilbride to see The Jungle Book and as part of a double feature (remember those), they had the documentary, The World at their Feet. It was the official FIFA film about the 1970 World Cup. It must have been about 1971 or '72 and to this day I remember watching it.

The Jungle Book was my favorite Disney film for years and I think it was down to seeing that documentary on the same night.
 
Watching that Brazil team in the '70 World Cup absolutely blew my 13 year old mind, I'd never seen the game played like that before.
At that time what we had was blood, sweat and snotters football and then came along this sublime artistry...wow!
Add in the fact that it was the first World Cup shown in colour (for those lucky enough to afford a colour telly), it truly was a magical time for football fans the world over.
 
That was a magical tournament. I was only 7, but remember the excitement of the live games.
Remember watching the opening game , England v Brazil & West Germany - and of course that Final.
Some of the games were for 'dads only' due to very late kick off times.
MyXmas request for 1970 was a Brazil strip.

I had a Valiant (comic) World Cup chart with stickers , which i lost some time in the 80's sadly.
 
Captain Cutlass said:
Watching that Brazil team in the '70 World Cup absolutely blew my 13 year old mind, I'd never seen the game played like that before.
At that time what we had was blood, sweat and snotters football and then came along this sublime artistry...wow!
Add in the fact that it was the first World Cup shown in colour (for those lucky enough to afford a colour telly), it truly was a magical time for football fans the world over.
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You forgot to say afford to RENT a colour TV. :)
 
Chocolateleftfoot said:
It's not that they wouldn't make the grade, they were all obviously in the 1% club of their era, World Class players to a man.

It's just that there's different criteria to get there now that isn't just about training and diet.

Carlos Alberto has more talent in his left arse cheek than Andy Robertson, for example, but Andy Robertson can run 16km in a game.

The whole game just moves at a speed that 70s players wouldn't recognise. Some would adapt but in general, modern players are naturally bigger, stronger and more athletic. It's the same across all sports. Muhammed Ali might be the greatest boxer in history but he wouldn't get near a modern heavyweight.
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Oh dear oh dear with the last comment
 
Total agree OP, the best team of all time. That forward line of Jairzinho, Pelé, Gérson, Tostão and Rivellino still rolls off the tongue every bit as much as Ritchie, Shearer, Caldow… the fact they were all inside lefts just shows you player your best players rather than worry about tactics too much

And who can forget the greatest goal ever. Carlos Alberto to Jairzinho to Pele… Gooooooooooooooooooaaaaaaaaaaaaaallll!!!!!
 
Blue Lou Boyle said:
First WC I watched was Mexico 86.

Brazil were great to watch in that tournament too. Their quarter final vs France was one of the best WC games I have ever seen but as it only had two goals after 120 minutes and neither team reached the final its been mostly forgotten about.

It was Zicos last match at a WC.
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That was one of the best games I’ve ever seen. For me they were the best two sides in the tournament, France gave everything in that game and because of that maybe burnt out for the next one.
 
chosen few said:
Pele himself thought that the team with himself and Garincha in it was a better team ,than the 1970 one , that is a scary thought .
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My grandad reckoned the 58 team was better than the 1970 one and the best he’d ever seen, more like acrobats than footballers he said.
 
mdingwall said:
The Greatest of All Time.

These are the goals from that Brazil side and they do not do the team justice. 6 games, 19 goals, 16 from open play, 3 from set pieces and no extra time, PSO or Pens in normal time needed. This is more than football. It pure artistry. The fact that we are raving about this side over 50 years later, should tell people how magnificent they were. Their legacy will never leave the pitch.


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Amazing watching that team.
 
club175 said:
I reckon Barca 07-12 would pump them silly.
Part of that would due to fitness and speed of game. The famous Carlos Alberta goal is like watching a friendly in walking football
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I respectfully disagree. although i can see your point of view there were great Brazilian teams back in day and no one ever pumped them silly. I believe when Pele was the worlds best footballer. About half of the top ten footballers in the world were in the same team and played alongside him.
 
mdingwall said:
The Greatest of All Time.

These are the goals from that Brazil side and they do not do the team justice. 6 games, 19 goals, 16 from open play, 3 from set pieces and no extra time, PSO or Pens in normal time needed. This is more than football. It pure artistry. The fact that we are raving about this side over 50 years later, should tell people how magnificent they were. Their legacy will never leave the pitch.


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Weight of pass, direction of pass, controlling the ball with your chest, all things lost on our squad!
Especially the chest thing, I'm absolutely convinced most of them think it's a foul to touch the ball with your chest.
 
billiam said:
My grandad reckoned the 58 team was better than the 1970 one and the best he’d ever seen, more like acrobats than footballers he said.
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Out of curiosity bud, how did your Grandad watch this Brazilian team in 1958?
 
mdingwall said:
It’s played in heat and at altitude you daft lady's front bottom.

Anyway - you’re about to get a week in the sinbin for being a windup merchant.
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Aye, Match kicked off at noon, in the middle of June, in Mexico, at 7,500 feet above sea level. Italy had came through a brutal 120 minutes against West Germany less than 4 days before. The Carlos Alberto goal was struck at the death after Italy had been run ragged for 90 minutes. No wonder they were knackered.

Remember the old Brazil 70 video where Brazil stayed in the changing rooms at half-time to leave England sweltering in the heat. Gordon Banks standing under the bar next to the post to try and grab some shade.
 
Sweet_Home_Alabama said:
Only non Rangers poster I ever had on my bedroom wall. Best players, best team, best names, best tans, best strip, best boots. Nothing will come close for me.

Also remember that Italian team was a great team in it's own right. Take away Brazil and they win it against anyone.
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Watched the game for the first time recently and was surprised how good Italy were.

Thought Rivelino was the best player on the park and also the coolest c**t on the planet - taking corners with the outside of his foot in a World Cup final. Didn't think Pele was brilliant in the final but I believe he was at the end of his international career at this point - and also shows how good the Italian defence was.
 
Grimsdale said:
The greatest ever World Cup won by the greatest ever football side.
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Was almost 10 at this one - my first WC. It was a tournament of magic. Peru were coached by a Brasilian legend (Didi(?)) and played some sublime stuff too.

The semi between Italy and W.G. was a bit of a non event until K.H. Scnelinger (sp) equalised with the last touch of regular time - then it exploded into one of the greatest 30 mins of WC history.

For those who say the brasil side would compete in today's game , maybe but goalkeeping has come a very long way in 50 years. Check out Felix at the 50 sec - 1 minute mark:-

This was not an irregular type of goal to lose. Lucky for him the outfield could easily outscore his blunders.

As a side note:- Italy won their group scoring only one goal.
 
Best World Cup I’ve watched and probably the best team I’ve ever seen. Yet 4 years later their magic had gone.
 
I wonder how they would have got on playing a full strength Ajax it would have been a great game to watch
 
Mason Boyne said:
Best World Cup I’ve watched and probably the best team I’ve ever seen. Yet 4 years later their magic had gone.
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They had taken a severe kicking at England '66 and were determined it would not happen again. They filled their squad with some brutal players, most notably Luis Pereira. The Scotland, Brasil game was brutal but pale in comparison to their game against the Netherlands (who were also very able in the physical dept). Some of the "action" from about 3 mins onwards:-

 
jim_baxter1960 said:
Was almost 10 at this one - my first WC. It was a tournament of magic. Peru were coached by a Brasilian legend (Didi(?)) and played some sublime stuff too.

The semi between Italy and W.G. was a bit of a non event until K.H. Scnelinger (sp) equalised with the last touch of regular time - then it exploded into one of the greatest 30 mins of WC history.

For those who say the brasil side would compete in today's game , maybe but goalkeeping has come a very long way in 50 years. Check out Felix at the 50 sec - 1 minute mark:-

This was not an irregular type of goal to lose. Lucky for him the outfield could easily outscore his blunders.

As a side note:- Italy won their group scoring only one goal.
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I actually liked Felix and if I played in goal in school insisted in being addressed as such. :)
 
Mason Boyne said:
Best World Cup I’ve watched and probably the best team I’ve ever seen. Yet 4 years later their magic had gone.
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Nick Hornby in Fever Pitch: "In a way Brazil ruined it for all of us. They have revealed a kind of platonic ideal that nobody, not even the Brazilians, would ever be able to find again. Pele retired, and in the subsequent tournaments they only showed little flashes of their ejector-seat football, as if 1970 was a half-remembered dream they had once had of themselves."
 
Mason Boyne said:
Best World Cup I’ve watched and probably the best team I’ve ever seen. Yet 4 years later their magic had gone.
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I would imagine that would have been down to most of the 70 team being finished. Pele, Gerson, Tostao etc.

I think Jairzhino and Rivelino were still there in 74. I think there were two players called Mharinho (sp) in the team. A Fransisco, who was white and had long blonde hair and I'm sure another who was black. They also had a big thug called Carlos Perreria (sp) who I think was red carded v Holland.

I suppose in hindsight, the team in 74 had no chance of living up to the 70 genius.
 
Blue Lou Boyle said:
Nick Hornby in Fever Pitch: "In a way Brazil ruined it for all of us. They have revealed a kind of platonic ideal that nobody, not even the Brazilians, would ever be able to find again. Pele retired, and in the subsequent tournaments they only showed little flashes of their ejector-seat football, as if 1970 was a half-remembered dream they had once had of themselves."
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I remember reading that.
 
jim_baxter1960 said:
Was almost 10 at this one - my first WC. It was a tournament of magic. Peru were coached by a Brasilian legend (Didi(?)) and played some sublime stuff too.

The semi between Italy and W.G. was a bit of a non event until K.H. Scnelinger (sp) equalised with the last touch of regular time - then it exploded into one of the greatest 30 mins of WC history.

For those who say the brasil side would compete in today's game , maybe but goalkeeping has come a very long way in 50 years. Check out Felix at the 50 sec - 1 minute mark:-

This was not an irregular type of goal to lose. Lucky for him the outfield could easily outscore his blunders.

As a side note:- Italy won their group scoring only one goal.
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Great Post. Yes, Peru had Teofilo Cubillas, a sublime footballer, who would win the South American Player of the Year in the early 70s, which at that time was no mean feat
 
wee bud's pit boots said:
I would imagine that would have been down to most of the 70 team being finished. Pele, Gerson, Tostao etc.

I think Jairzhino and Rivelino were still there in 74. I think there were two players called Mharinho (sp) in the team. A Fransisco, who was white and had long blonde hair and I'm sure another who was black. They also had a big thug called Carlos Perreria (sp) who I think was red carded v Holland.

I suppose in hindsight, the team in 74 had no chance of living up to the 70 genius.
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Partly true, check out my post 87 above. They came to Europe prepared for a physical game after the brutal group games against Portugal and Hungary in '66.

Another point of interest: Bigeye pointed out above that Yellow/ Red cards were introduced in this tournament - a red was never shown.
 
jim_baxter1960 said:
Was almost 10 at this one - my first WC. It was a tournament of magic. Peru were coached by a Brasilian legend (Didi(?)) and played some sublime stuff too.

The semi between Italy and W.G. was a bit of a non event until K.H. Scnelinger (sp) equalised with the last touch of regular time - then it exploded into one of the greatest 30 mins of WC history.

For those who say the brasil side would compete in today's game , maybe but goalkeeping has come a very long way in 50 years. Check out Felix at the 50 sec - 1 minute mark:-

This was not an irregular type of goal to lose. Lucky for him the outfield could easily outscore his blunders.

As a side note:- Italy won their group scoring only one goal.
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You have to remember though that no one ever played in goals on the Copacabana. The guy put in goals would be the last guy picked for a team with limited eye foot coordination They relied on scoring more than their opponents.
 
wee bud's pit boots said:
I think that 1970 team all seemed to gel and peak for that competition. Footballing alchemy. And then you have Pele. I mean they were a poor imitation in 74 and sometimes a disgrace.

Factor in that we had games on in the morning, and the fact we didn't have so many live games back then, it all added to the magic and mystique.

Maybe being only nine years old at the time, but there's never been a WC like it.

Since then, Holland in 74 and Brazil in 82 are the best teams not to win it.
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Too young to have watched the ‘82 World Cup but that Brazil team looked unbelievable. Socrates, Zico, Eder, Falcao… some of the highlights the football they were playing was incredible.

If they had a Pele, Romario or Ronaldo they might well have won it.
 
They didnt invent the "Beautiful game" but they certainly played like they did. Pele was imperious, Tostao the same, Rivellino up there and Jairzinho brilliant ( is he still the only one to score in every game in the World Cup). They were sublime and still the the team who showed how football should be played to an awestruck 10 year old.
 
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