Champions League and the Rebuild required

Z

ZiggyPop

Well-Known Member
Todays result in the cold light of day means we have given those 2nd class Citizens the guts of a $50M windfall for automatic champions league next season; which is absolutely sickening considering where we were 2 months back.

It’s absolute imperative we get our recruitment correct in the summer with no room for error so we can get through the qualifying stages. Unfortunately, Butland will now have to be sold, (12M I think) to fund the signings. I would also look to move on Ridvan, Lammers, Dessers and build a team around Sterling.

This will probably take around 3 windows so we need to get it spot on. Signings need to be identified quickly so we hit the ground running in pre-season and qualifying.
 
Issue may be that we won’t be able to commit to certain signings or attract certain players whilst the uncertainty of champions league qualification remains unsettled - going into the market later in the close season once likely budgets are agreed
 
I could genuinely give a f*ck about the Champions league if truth be told.

Would rather we focus on a full rebuild and gave the new players time to settle. Getting pumped in the Champions league while trying to blend the new players in could set us back.
 
Butland

Yilmaz
XX
XX
Tav?

Diomande
Sterling
XX

Sima?
XX
Cortes

Two new CB’s required, we can keep Davies and Souttar as back up.

A goal scoring midfielder who can hit 10 to 15 a season.

Hopefully keep Sima again next season.

And a new dynamic number 9.

5 new signings who would be instant starters.

A mix of bosmans, loans and about £25m and we’re sound :p
 
Gdawg said:
Maybe someone who watched him have an outstanding season, enough to bring the England manager up to Ibrox to watch him? He had been sitting on benches before last summer.

He is worth more than £12m now.
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£12m is nothing for a team in the EPL.

If we get 8 figures offered for Butland he will be gone, it will benefit both parties.

Wouldn't surprise me if Southgate has told him if he gets a move back down South he will get a call up.
 
MartinS93 said:
Do you think they'll spend the whole 50 in the one transfer market?
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i would doubt they will have to , I think they will sell a couple of players for decent money , and that will fund their 4 or 5 summer signings, the 50million will be parked alongside the 70 million sitting in their bank account
 
We need to remember that 12m is chump change in the PL. Plus he's home grown for teams down there so I don't think 12m is too much of a stretch.

Butland - 12m
Tav - 5m ( if Saudi rumours are true)
Goldson 5m ( same as Tav)
Davies - 2m
Ridvan - 3m

Lawrence - 1m
Cantwell - 5m
Matondo - 2m
Dowell - 500k
Wright - we pay someone 500k to take him

Dessers - 3m ( based purely on his numbers someone might take a punt)
Lammers - 3m

At best around 35m.

I realise this is probably the best case scenario but not completely unrealistic.
 
MartinS93 said:
Do you think they'll spend the whole 50 in the one transfer market?
Click to expand...
It gives them plenty room to be more flexible in the transfer market though.
They will likely sell someone like o’Riley for a lot of money and use that to strengthen a league winning team without the need to touch their champions league money.
We really need to make the champions league through the playoffs to fund a squad rebuild.
The club have a lot of work to do in the summer.
 
I wouldn't want to see this team in the champions League next year, would be records broken for all the wrong reasons again.

What I want is a ruthless rebuild

Clear the decks completely, a few quality additions and build from there
 
Going by the other thread, Butland is away for £21m, and the poster was the guy who had the info about him joining in the first place
 
We haven't given them anything. There simply a better team than us. I very much doubt any of our outfield players that started yesterday would get anywhere near their team and that's unforgivable.
 
Bradbo88 said:
We need to remember that 12m is chump change in the PL. Plus he's home grown for teams down there so I don't think 12m is too much of a stretch.

Butland - 12m
Tav - 5m ( if Saudi rumours are true)
Goldson 5m ( same as Tav)
Davies - 2m
Ridvan - 3m

Lawrence - 1m
Cantwell - 5m
Matondo - 2m
Dowell - 500k
Wright - we pay someone 500k to take him

Dessers - 3m ( based purely on his numbers someone might take a punt)
Lammers - 3m

At best around 35m.

I realise this is probably the best case scenario but not completely unrealistic.
Click to expand...
I find some of those figures unrealistic, particularly Goldson and Tav. Getting 10m for that pair of losers would be great, bit sadly I can't see it.
 
Bradbo88 said:
We need to remember that 12m is chump change in the PL. Plus he's home grown for teams down there so I don't think 12m is too much of a stretch.

Butland - 12m
Tav - 5m ( if Saudi rumours are true)
Goldson 5m ( same as Tav)
Davies - 2m
Ridvan - 3m

Lawrence - 1m
Cantwell - 5m
Matondo - 2m
Dowell - 500k
Wright - we pay someone 500k to take him

Dessers - 3m ( based purely on his numbers someone might take a punt)
Lammers - 3m

At best around 35m.

I realise this is probably the best case scenario but not completely unrealistic.
Click to expand...
Just to add a bit of perspective to the value of Butland and some here rubbishing the possibility of a fee anywhere near £12m, or more.

Firstly his value is what any team is prepared to pay for a goalkeeper of his ability and experience.

The nearest comparator I can recall for an appropriate fee would be Fwather Forthter leaving them for Southampton for a fee somewhere close, or up to £10m, in 2014.

Alternatively Craig Gordon to Sunderland in 2007, for around £9m

Both around 24 when transferred, Forster until he signed for them, very much met the description of a jobber of a goalkeeper.

Personally I think Butland compares favourably to both above, since then both Sky TV revenue and transfer fees, not to mention boring old inflation, has risen considerably.

Ok, at 31 Butland is not a youngster but positively, has good experience and still at an age considered decent for a goalkeeper.

I'm not saying that if he goes it will be for an astronomical fee, but compared to what teams in England are prepared to pay, even newly promoted and lower table sides, we should be careful not to undersell Butland's worth.
 
The Goalie said:
Who is paying £12 million for Butland when they could have picked him up for free last summer?
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I don't get this logic.

Ajax paid £20+ million for Bassey when they could have got him for free. Leeds paid £6 million for Kamara when they could have got him for £50k.

Butland is one of the top performing keepers in the UK this season, he's English, and he's also under contract.

If teams want him, they need to pay us appropriately.
 
Let’s hope that the guy who had the Butland story first is right about the valuation.
The good news is that we are getting some massive wage bills off of our weekly costs.
Lundstram, Roofe, Ryan Jack and Borna for starters.
If Tav and Goldson go to Saudi and Big Jack is sold for a pretty penny, then there should be decent funds to work with.
It’s his criminal to think that the last 12 months we’ve been paying out more in wages than they have.
 
NegrisLob said:
I wouldn't want to see this team in the champions League next year, would be records broken for all the wrong reasons again.

What I want is a ruthless rebuild

Clear the decks completely, a few quality additions and build from there
Click to expand...
Clearing the decks, adding quality and a complete overhaul would look a hell of a lot better with CL money though.

If we get in it’s so much better for us from a recruitment standpoint. Regardless if we get absolutely pumped every game.
 
yosser hughes said:
i would doubt they will have to , I think they will sell a couple of players for decent money , and that will fund their 4 or 5 summer signings, the 50million will be parked alongside the 70 million sitting in their bank account
Click to expand...
That's what I think to.

I don't see them spending 30-40 million of champions league cash. No chance.
 
All of the Lights said:
No I wouldn’t have thought so, but they’ll spend some of it and we can’t afford to continually fall further behind them financially.
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Well its a massive possibility.

It's unlikely that we keep this squad and qualify, it's also unlikely we blend everyone in time and have them gelling for the CL playoffs.
 
Blootoonboy said:
Butland

Yilmaz
XX
XX
Tav?

Diomande
Sterling
XX

Sima?
XX
Cortes

Two new CB’s required, we can keep Davies and Souttar as back up.

A goal scoring midfielder who can hit 10 to 15 a season.

Hopefully keep Sima again next season.

And a new dynamic number 9.

5 new signings who would be instant starters.

A mix of bosmans, loans and about £25m and we’re sound :p
Click to expand...
Tav absolutely has to go in the summer.
 
No matter how good they are, trying to bed in an entire XI would see us drop points early on and the pressure rise straight away. I'd imagine we'll try to keep 11 or 12 players, likely: Butland, Tavernier, Sterling, Goldson, Souttar, Yilmaz, Diomande, Raskin, Cantwell, ideally Cortes & Sima if possible, and Dessers and Danilo. We'll probably see Lowry, King, McCausland and one other stay to bulk up the squad and for our European squad.

Then we need to try to raise £10m+ from selling the likes of McCrorie, Davies, Lawrence, Wright, Matondo, Dowell, Lammers & Cifuentes.

We then have £300k per week or so from getting rid of the above plus Lundstram, Balogun, Jack, McLaughlin, Barisic, Roofe & Silva's wages.

We'll also need to try to use the loan market, similar to how they did with Jota, Carter-Vickers and Maeda in their first season.

Koppen really has his work cut out but if he manages to pull off the above, we have the guts of a decent squad that needs a lot of quality added throughout. Hopefully £15m-£20m to spend, especially with the increase in European matches, and a couple of loan signings and bosmans.
 
We'll end up in the Europa league where we belong.
The CL money is never as much as is touted.
I think Butland is a solid keeper rather than a great one. I think he'll be here next season.
Time to dump Tav and play Sterling at right back. Some players to come back from injury and astute summer acquisitions and we can have a competitive season.
 
Blootoonboy said:
Butland

Yilmaz
XX
XX
Tav?

Diomande
Sterling
XX

Sima?
XX
Cortes

Two new CB’s required, we can keep Davies and Souttar as back up.

A goal scoring midfielder who can hit 10 to 15 a season.

Hopefully keep Sima again next season.

And a new dynamic number 9.

5 new signings who would be instant starters.

A mix of bosmans, loans and about £25m and we’re sound :p
Click to expand...
If we do somehow sign Sima and Cortes, added onto the circa £4.5m we’re obliged to pay for Diomande, I don’t think there’s much of a budget left for anyone else.

So we’ll be heavily reliant on Bosmans and loans once again and that always seems to be a bit of a lottery in terms of attracting the quality we lack.
 
Are people forgetting we turned down £10m for Butland in January?

The level of convenience for intentionally leaving out fact alone leads me to question some people’s capacity for talking down the value of our biggest asset.
 
Number 4 said:
Are people forgetting we turned down £10m for Butland in January?

The level of convenience for intentionally leaving out fact alone leads me to question some people’s capacity for talking down the value of our biggest asset.
Click to expand...
It's not a fact though.

Nobody knows how much we turned down.
 
HandsomeHead said:
If we do somehow sign Sima and Cortes, added onto the circa £4.5m we’re obliged to pay for Diomande, I don’t think there’s much of a budget left for anyone else.

So we’ll be heavily reliant on Bosmans and loans once again and that always seems to be a bit of a lottery in terms of attracting the quality we lack.
Click to expand...

I think there’s some decent bosmans out there this year, hopefully we can snap a few up.
 
ZiggyPop said:
Todays result in the cold light of day means we have given those 2nd class Citizens the guts of a $50M windfall for automatic champions league next season; which is absolutely sickening considering where we were 2 months back.

It’s absolute imperative we get our recruitment correct in the summer with no room for error so we can get through the qualifying stages. Unfortunately, Butland will now have to be sold, (12M I think) to fund the signings. I would also look to move on Ridvan, Lammers, Dessers and build a team around Sterling.

This will probably take around 3 windows so we need to get it spot on. Signings need to be identified quickly so we hit the ground running in pre-season and qualifying.
Click to expand...
It better be more than £12m for Butland. Wolves paid €35m on a random prospect punt from Porto
 
MartinS93 said:
I could genuinely give a f*ck about the Champions league if truth be told.

Would rather we focus on a full rebuild and gave the new players time to settle. Getting pumped in the Champions league while trying to blend the new players in could set us back.
Click to expand...
We need the income from the CL, otherwise that mob will stretch away from us as they're guaranteed multi millions from the same competition. Not having comparable income will set us back
 
Johansen said:
We need the income from the CL, otherwise that mob will stretch away from us as they're guaranteed multi millions from the same competition. Not having comparable income will set us back
Click to expand...
Us qualifying for the CL next season is more unlikely than likely.

It won't happen with this squad and unlikely to happen if we do actually go through a rebuild with the (hopefully) big influx of players.

We're in this predicament because if years of no forward thinking. We simply need a rebuild and have to face whatever challenges comes with that.
 
We’ve already committed £4m to Diomande possibly a similar amount to Cortés and are looking at Cordoba for £3m if those transactions happen that’s a huge slice of any potential budget away already with multiple other positions needing looked at.

It’s going to be a huge ask to turn this squad around in the summer no matter who the manager is.

​

 
We need players to play 50-60 games a season. I get injuries can't always be helped but we need that core of players. Too many out for far too long.

We have a few going out for nothing so wages freed up. Most probably a few for fees and the Tillman money too. Get fresh, hungry young players and couple of loans too and we should be ok.
 
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