Che Adams

Fbearblue said:
We could have signed Ivan Toney for 6.5 million three years ago, we didn’t, I wonder if that’s because our scouts knew about his chronic gambling issue or the fact they are just dreadful at their jobs.
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We miss out on a player that we couldn't afford and our scouts are dreadful, wtf?

How about them getting Alfie for 1M, Aribo, Tav and Bassey for less.
We built a squad on a relative shoestring that took us to the EL final, and still people criticize day in, day out. It's ridiculous.

And Che Adams would be a great signing, that we most likely cannot afford, same as Toney.
 
He won’t be interested, we can’t afford him and I don’t think he is clinical enough to be the striker we need.

He is a good player in terms of leading the line but his goalscoring record isn’t great.
 
ElBuffalo said:
I’m sure all club owners would love to have your powers of hindsight. That’s not really how the world works.

Expecting the board to dig out 6.5million for a player when we didn’t have enough cash to see out a season is batshit mental.
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Speculating to accumulate is far from batshit mental and is how the world actually works. And fitter to that it’s actually what our player trading model was meant to be based on.

As for assuming we didn’t have the cash to see out the season that is also batshit mental. You are literally making assumptions here to suit your agenda.
 
BalooBear said:
We miss out on a player that we couldn't afford and our scouts are dreadful, wtf?

How about them getting Alfie for 1M, Aribo, Tav and Bassey for less.
We built a squad on a relative shoestring that took us to the EL final, and still people criticize day in, day out. It's ridiculous.

And Che Adams would be a great signing, that we most likely cannot afford, same as Toney.
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How about you get your facts straight before mounting an argument?

Morelos identifies by Johannsen, not our scouts.

Aribo and Bassey both recommended by Beale not our scouts.

Not sure about your Che Adams statement.
 
Fbearblue said:
As for assuming we didn’t have the cash to see out the season that is also batshit mental. You are literally making assumptions here to suit your agenda.
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Our annual statement from November 2020 called out “The forecasts indicate that funds are required to support the Club for the rest of the season 2020/21”.

Where was the cash for this £6.5m player coming from?

What is my ‘agenda’, exactly?
 
ElBuffalo said:
Our annual statement from November 2020 called out “The forecasts indicate that funds are required to support the Club for the rest of the season 2020/21”.

Where was the cash for this £6.5m player coming from?

What is my ‘agenda’, exactly?
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Yes funds were required, does that mean investment elsewhere grinds to a halt? The answer is no it doesn’t.

The money would have came from an entity promised return on investment.

Agenda is the wrong word. Narrative would have been better.
 
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Fbearblue said:
How about you get your facts straight before mounting an argument?

Morelos identifies by Johannsen, not our scouts.

Aribo and Bassey both recommended by Beale not our scouts.

Not sure about your Che Adams statement.
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I couldn't even name one of our scouts, yet there's folks on here just want to attack the football operations, Wilson, scouts, medical team etc on a daily basis.

There will be more than one member of staff gets involved every time a player gets recommended or referred, so I think it needs to be collective praise as well as criticism, if that's how folk want to judge this.

I'm pointing out that we had and have a very good squad of players, that took us to a EL final, against massive financial odds. In parallel we had to deal with an horrendous injury crisis, that imho, cost us the league last season.

The injury crisis carried into this season, but with Beale's arrival, our form is improving week to week. We're getting players back, we've signed a couple of very exciting prospects in January, and despite losing the LCF, our results have been excellent.

The constant critics (like your good self) really need to find some perspective, show a wee bit of patience, and start backing the team, as Beale is consistently asking us to do.

Thought my Che Adams statement was clear and accurate ? :))
 
He's their top scorer and only 26.

Even if they are relegated I would imagine a good few other lower EPL teams would take a punt on him - tbh it's not even a punt as he is a pretty decent player.
 
ElBuffalo said:
Where exactly were we getting 6.5 million to spend on one player three years ago? Never mind the fact we were about to kick off a season behind closed doors?

Did you expect the directors to personally fund that one as well as the loans to keep the lights on?
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19/20:

Sum spent: €11.34m
Average age: 24.5

Total market value of arrivals: €24.33m

20/21

Sum spent: €11.70m
 
BalooBear said:
I couldn't even name one of our scouts, yet there's folks on here just want to attack the football operations, Wilson, scouts, medical team etc on a daily basis.

There will be more than one member of staff gets involved every time a player gets recommended or referred, so I think it needs to be collective praise as well as criticism, if that's how folk want to judge this.

I'm pointing out that we had and have a very good squad of players, that took us to a EL final, against massive financial odds. In parallel we had to deal with an horrendous injury crisis, that imho, cost us the league last season.

The injury crisis carried into this season, but with Beale's arrival, our form is improving week to week. We're getting players back, we've signed a couple of very exciting prospects in January, and despite losing the LCF, our results have been excellent.

The constant critics (like your good self) really need to find some perspective, show a wee bit of patience, and start backing the team, as Beale is consistently asking us to do.

Thought my Che Adams statement was clear and accurate ? :))
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We lost the league because of our manager. As for perspective the facts are that our football operations and a lot of what is happening at the club in terms of football operations are below what should be expected at a club of our size. That's my opinion.

As an example and I feel its the best example, we are about to see two players leave the cub in pre-season who 18 months ago were worth a combined total of let's say 25 million, revenue like that for us is not something we can pass up.

We are about to lose those players and that in itself is amateur at best and negligent at worst.
 
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Fbearblue said:
We lost the league because of our manager. As for perspective the facts are that our football operations and a lot of what is happening at the club in terms of football operations are below what should be expected at a club of our size. That's my opinion.

As an example and I feel its the best example, we are about to see two players leave the cub in pre-season who 18 months ago were worth a combined total of let's say 25 million, revenue like that for us is not something we can pass up.

We are about to lose those players and that in itself is amateur at best and negligent at worst.
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I'll respectfully disagree, as I think we have a strong squad, and it's 10 months since Seville, on the road to which, we enjoyed some of the greatest highs in decades. A PK shoot out away from the greatest high we'd ever experience.
Kent and Alfie situation is frustrating, but we cannot make players sign contracts, and we cannot sell players if they don't have offers, or won't accept them.
I'm hoping both re sign, especially Kent, but we'll see. Either way, both have more than repaid us the investment made, imo.
 
BalooBear said:
I'll respectfully disagree, as I think we have a strong squad, and it's 10 months since Seville, on the road to which, we enjoyed some of the greatest highs in decades. A PK shoot out away from the greatest high we'd ever experience.
Kent and Alfie situation is frustrating, but we cannot make players sign contracts, and we cannot sell players if they don't have offers, or won't accept them.
I'm hoping both re sign, especially Kent, but we'll see. Either way, both have more than repaid us the investment made, imo.
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We obviously have very different opinions on these subjects which is fine, I genuinely cannot believe that people want Morelos to sign after the physical condition he has been in and the lack of effort we have seen over the past 18 months.

The additional training and slight loss of weight we are now seeing are due to the fact he is offski preseason. A section of our fans have a blind soft spot for Morelos and his blatant faults and it verges on the ridiculous.
 
Fbearblue said:
We obviously have very different opinions on these subjects which is fine, I genuinely cannot believe that people want Morelos to sign after the physical condition he has been in and the lack of effort we have seen over the past 18 months.

The additional training and slight loss of weight we are now seeing are due to the fact he is offski preseason. A section of our fans have a blind soft spot for Morelos and his blatant faults and it verges on the ridiculous.
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A bit of an exaggeration.
12 months ago he was tearing Borussia Dortmund apart, prior to him sustaining the first serious injury of his career, which I genuinely think he's struggled to come back from.
Beale has said that since he's came back, his attitude has been excellent + he's starting to look sharp. In some cases, players struggle to get back from injury. If he's been fannying about, unprofessional, I'd accept the criticism, but Beale says otherwise, so who is right?
 
BalooBear said:
A bit of an exaggeration.
12 months ago he was tearing Borussia Dortmund apart, prior to him sustaining the first serious injury of his career, which I genuinely think he's struggled to come back from.
Beale has said that since he's came back, his attitude has been excellent + he's starting to look sharp. In some cases, players struggle to get back from injury. If he's been fannying about, unprofessional, I'd accept the criticism, but Beale says otherwise, so who is right?
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Let's leave this, I am not a huge fan of discussing a subject when people have opinions that are in direct contradiction to one another.
 
BalooBear said:
A bit of an exaggeration.
12 months ago he was tearing Borussia Dortmund apart, prior to him sustaining the first serious injury of his career, which I genuinely think he's struggled to come back from.
Beale has said that since he's came back, his attitude has been excellent + he's starting to look sharp. In some cases, players struggle to get back from injury. If he's been fannying about, unprofessional, I'd accept the criticism, but Beale says otherwise, so who is right?
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You know exactly what Morelos is like. We all do. I frankly think he's just not young enough any more to get away with it.
 
Only seen him a few times for Southampton but whenever he’s played for Scotland I’ve never really seen what others see in him tbh.
 
THe striker position is massive for us this summer. Assuming Alfie goes we need a big time replacement, without a big tie price tag. Hopefuly Beale can find a gem.
 
BalooBear said:
A bit of an exaggeration.
12 months ago he was tearing Borussia Dortmund apart, prior to him sustaining the first serious injury of his career, which I genuinely think he's struggled to come back from.
Beale has said that since he's came back, his attitude has been excellent + he's starting to look sharp. In some cases, players struggle to get back from injury. If he's been fannying about, unprofessional, I'd accept the criticism, but Beale says otherwise, so who is right?
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Beale is being cute with his choice of words, he's not going to slate a player who he'll still have to use until the end of the season.
 
ElBuffalo said:
Where exactly were we getting 6.5 million to spend on one player three years ago? Never mind the fact we were about to kick off a season behind closed doors?

Did you expect the directors to personally fund that one as well as the loans to keep the lights on?
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Was £7m Ryan Kent a figment of my imagination?
 
Ross Barclay contract up in summer and yesterday saw his name mentioned on follow follow 2 Facebook
Don't know if it's Beale type of signing
 
Unfortunately we operate in a world where very average players like che Adams are completely out of our reach.

Instead we should be scouting places like Croatia, Romania , Ukraine etc for talents not the epl
 
McBurnie is better and available for nothing.

Che Adams is a good player but hes almost certain to leave Soton this Summer and will have a load of English Clubs ready to bid big for him.
 
ICA_86 said:
Was £7m Ryan Kent a figment of my imagination?
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Post COVID? Taking the Europa League income and putting it on the Kent signing was a bold call by the board (and one I am glad for!) but I don’t think we can use the example as something to criticise them for not doing every year?

My point is that, given the season we were about to kick off, and the work that we needed to do on the squad to tool up for 55, 6.5m for Toney was never realistic and I dont think the board can be criticised for not sanctioning such a move. They’d already committed good money on Hagi and we really needed two strikers to add more goals, as well as quality CB cover in Balogun.

We know Gerrard didn’t want to sell assets, so I simply dont see, after looking at the accounts and financial statements, where this money was coming from. We had no idea how that year was going to pan out with regards to crowds and the financial impact. Maybe we could have went all in on Toney at the expense of strengthening other areas of the squad, but no guarantee it would have been as successful.
 
We should surely be aiming for better players than McBurnie and Adams? There has to be better out there within our budget?

As someone has said previously, we should not be shopping in Harrods!
 
Textbooktam said:
We should surely be aiming for better players than McBurnie and Adams? There has to be better out there within our budget?

As someone has said previously, we should not be shopping in Harrods!
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McBurnie is out of contract so wouldn't require a transfer fee.
 
Fbearblue said:
We lost the league because of our manager. As for perspective the facts are that our football operations and a lot of what is happening at the club in terms of football operations are below what should be expected at a club of our size. That's my opinion.

As an example and I feel its the best example, we are about to see two players leave the cub in pre-season who 18 months ago were worth a combined total of let's say 25 million, revenue like that for us is not something we can pass up.

We are about to lose those players and that in itself is amateur at best and negligent at worst.
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Very straightforward and concise as you put it.
However it’s not that at all.

Let’s buy into your statement and assume we’ve sold at that time our best 2 attacking options by a distance.
How would that have affected our ability to compete in Europe and get into CL never mind domestically SC.
So the financial gain would have been offset or perhaps we would have even be worse off.

You might argue we could have bought other players who may or may not have been a success but ultimately as our scouting system/ RW is so bad we are likely to have bought duds.
That’s the Anti RW position.

Lastly do you imagine for a nano second that if we sold Morelos and Kent for decent money our support would have enthusiastically backed that decision.
I can see the headlines now with lack of ambition by the board /settling for second best /giving up/diminishing out quality/throwing in the towel.

So if that’s your best example of dereliction of duty perhaps you need to think more deeply about the facts of the matter.
It ain’t straightforward.
 
Morton Goal said:
Anyone thinking we can realistically attract better is off their rockers.
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Rangers couldnt find a better player, or maybe you mean sign someone that wants to play in this league, than Adams ?

Not quite sure how you work that one our hes not bad at all got some speed and good movement but id guess theres plenty of better players out there.

Do you just believe hes a great player cos of the league hes playing in ?
 
Grumpy Old Git said:
Very straightforward and concise as you put it.
However it’s not that at all.

Let’s buy into your statement and assume we’ve sold at that time our best 2 attacking options by a distance.
How would that have affected our ability to compete in Europe and get into CL never mind domestically SC.
So the financial gain would have been offset or perhaps we would have even be worse off.

You might argue we could have bought other players who may or may not have been a success but ultimately as our scouting system/ RW is so bad we are likely to have bought duds.
That’s the Anti RW position.

Lastly do you imagine for a nano second that if we sold Morelos and Kent for decent money our support would have enthusiastically backed that decision.
I can see the headlines now with lack of ambition by the board /settling for second best /giving up/diminishing out quality/throwing in the towel.

So if that’s your best example of dereliction of duty perhaps you need to think more deeply about the facts of the matter.
It ain’t straightforward.
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The player trading model demands we sell the players at peak value, that’s how a club who are reliant on player sales have to operate.

Take the romanticism out the equation and expect that your best players will be sold. Still far too many of our fans in the mindset that “we can’t sell him as he’s ma favourite”

The fact we never sold those players at peak value (Morelos to Lille 16m) is because the person responsible is unfit for purpose.

I don’t agree with your opinion much like you don’t agree with mine but I do understand how a player trading model works where as I don’t think you do.
 
Textbooktam said:
Just meant the general prices of players in the Adams-McBurnie standard bracket. Not actually McBurnie himself mate.

Sorry for the confusion
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No worries mate. I do agree with your general point that the English market is inflated and in terms of paying a transfer fee there is better value elsewhere. We should be looking at Bosman signings though as long as the wage demands aren't ridiculous.
 
Sandyhills Blue said:
No worries mate. I do agree with your general point that the English market is inflated and in terms of paying a transfer fee there is better value elsewhere. We should be looking at Bosman signings though as long as the wage demands aren't ridiculous.
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We`re deffo more M&S than Harrods mate lol so I agree.

I think the Bosman thing can bring its own troubles in terms of elevated wages for dross though but FFS we need to take a punt somewhere. It`s a shame all roads lead to broke if we`re not cautious on how we recruit moving forward
 
Fbearblue said:
The player trading model demands we sell the players at peak value, that’s how a club who are reliant on player sales have to operate.

Take the romanticism out the equation and expect that your best players will be sold. Still far too many of our fans in the mindset that “we can’t sell him as he’s ma favourite”

The fact we never sold those players at peak value (Morelos to Lille 16m) is because the person responsible is unfit for purpose.

I don’t agree with your opinion much like you don’t agree with mine but I do understand how a player trading model works where as I don’t think you do.
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I understand the trading model completely but the bit IMO you are missing or choosing to ignore is that there is a balance to be struck between selling and retaining and I have pointed out the ramifications of selling both financially and quality on the park.

It is far too simplistic to point to a trading model and insist the club slavishly adhere to the model for every player.
The club did adhere to the model particularly with Patterson and Bassey but that does not mean every player who rises in value is automatically sold as you seem to imply.
It is unfair but understandable on here to point out 2 instances but disregard the rest.

Lastly football is an imprecise business and decisions are made for the best possible reasons at the time.
Some will work out while some won’t and that’s the reality
Fans need to live with reality and not some utopian version of football.
 
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