Clement on a hiding to nothing

Managers don't always share the views of the fans (or elements of the fans) of course. Plus they might know things about the background to players' loss of form that fans don't. Players will definitely be leaving, a fair chunk of wages will be freed, we will surely be able to pay fees (though how much is open to question). I would like us to keep the best of what we have and add the best quality we can get, strengthening the squad. We'll see what the new recruitment set-up can do.
 
How often has Tav disappeared into himself at the business end of the season? He's been shite ever since we topped the table. A penalty here or there doesn't change that.

That goes with quite a few others, they don't have the mentality we need.
 
We were in a similar position at the end of GvBs first season where it was obvious the squad needed gutted but there was just no way we were going to see a turnover of 12-15 players.

It's the exact same position we're in again, yes some will move on especially the ooc lot but in all likelihood quite a few of those being slated at the moment will still be here including Tav, Goldson, Davies, Wright etc

Clement has a very difficult task ahead of him to build a squad for next season especially if we need to move on players like Butland and Yilmaz to have any decent kind of transfer budget.
 
Albus said:
How often has Tav disappeared into himself at the business end of the season? He's been shite ever since we topped the table. A penalty here or there doesn't change that.

That goes with quite a few others, they don't have the mentality we need.
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It's better than half of the team who never came out their shells at all all season though. We've a team and squad filled with dross. It's a worry.
 
I said the same elsewhere, but Clement simply has to create a new core for this squad in the summer or else he will almost certainly go the same way as his predecessors.

I suppose the smart move would be to sit down with both Tav and Goldson at the end of the season and let them know that we’re looking to revamp the defence in the summer and the club will be open to offers for both. If they want to stay and fight for their place, fine, but they have the opportunity to move on if they wish.

Aside from the relative huge wage he’s drawing, Goldson is a lesser issue - you just bring in a new centre back and play him instead, but Tav is a little more complex in that he’s the long term club captain so realistically we’d be looking to replace him in that role too. That’s obviously a big kick in the teeth, but these are the difficult decisions the manager and the club need to take, IMO, otherwise the club is effectively being held to ransom by sentiment until Tav volunteers to hang up his boots.

The big question however is whether Clement even sees these two as part of the issue.

If he doesn’t, he’s toast.
 
paphosranger said:
It's like the Samaritans on here ffs. We are in the scottish cup semi tomorrow and now have an actual capable manager. We might not win the league this season, might not but the future is bright, the future is orange,
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It’s so bright, I gotta wear shades !
 
CraigMoore3 said:
I agree the likelihood is that Tav and Goldson are still in the back 4 next season.

People will argue for and against this. For me a clean break would bring a real freshness and feeling of a new era.

There's always going to be a cloud around then because the majority of the support just don't have any faith in them. Tav and Goldson mostly lose against Celtic, directly and for trophies across a season.

You only have to have a think about how we view guys like Peter Grant and Tom Boyd. Guys we just beat all the time, we ridiculed them and there was absolutely no fear there.

Regardless of what you think of them as players there's always now going to be this horrible stigma around them which I don't think is healthy.

You have to ask at 33 and 32 next season whether it's worth it.
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No way Tav and Goldson are
CraigMoore3 said:
I agree the likelihood is that Tav and Goldson are still in the back 4 next season.

People will argue for and against this. For me a clean break would bring a real freshness and feeling of a new era.

There's always going to be a cloud around then because the majority of the support just don't have any faith in them. Tav and Goldson mostly lose against Celtic, directly and for trophies across a season.

You only have to have a think about how we view guys like Peter Grant and Tom Boyd. Guys we just beat all the time, we ridiculed them and there was absolutely no fear there.

Regardless of what you think of them as players there's always now going to be this horrible stigma around them which I don't think is healthy.

You have to ask at 33 and 32 next season whether it's worth it.
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No way Tav and Goldson are playing 50+ games next season. They'll be lucky to get half that if they're still here. Clement aint daft and he isn't going to ignore what's staring him straight in the face.
 
We will just need to let the manager, manage the squad as best as his budget allows. We have a lot out of contract freeing up money. The kicker, as per, is champions league money. He will have money to spend or be fiddling around, either way we need to back him as best we can, in the boardroom and from the stands. Treble is still on folks, not all that bad with 5 games left in the league.
 
Burgh-Ger said:
I suspect Tav and Goldson will be here next season however, they shouldn’t be playing 50+ games for us.

If they leave along with some of the others expected, we are looking at a rebuild that a our budget won’t support.

The two of them combined have played a huge number of games over the last 3 or 4 years - thats really starting to show
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50 games I I still prefer men select them for 5 games.
 
Burgh-Ger said:
I suspect Tav and Goldson will be here next season however, they shouldn’t be playing 50+ games for us.

If they leave along with some of the others expected, we are looking at a rebuild that a our budget won’t support.

The two of them combined have played a huge number of games over the last 3 or 4 years - thats really starting to show
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Agree.

The correct approach is that Tav & Goldson stay but are phased out over the season. Unless of course we get an offer for either of them.
 
Burgh-Ger said:
I suspect Tav and Goldson will be here next season however, they shouldn’t be playing 50+ games for us.

If they leave along with some of the others expected, we are looking at a rebuild that a our budget won’t support.

The two of them combined have played a huge number of games over the last 3 or 4 years - thats really starting to show
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We should be able yo get fees for Raskin, Dowell, Lammers, Davies, Cifuentes, Ridvan etc. that will go a long way in a rebuild.
 
We need to be backing Clement in the long run. All well and good saying get rid of the whole team (don't get me wrong, I agree with the sentiment) but we can't just get 11 new players in and expect to win the league next season. This rebuild is going to take time and we need to (excuse the horrible phrase) trust the process. I liked Gio and Beale, never doubted thier intentions were totally right but I have confidence in Clement being to do that in a way I didn't feel the others would be able.
 
GazTheRangersMan said:
We should be able yo get fees for Raskin, Dowell, Lammers, Davies, Cifuentes, Ridvan etc. that will go a long way in a rebuild.
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We need to spend £4m on diomande and find £7m approx for Sima just to pretty much stand still though. With FFP, it's going to be a challenging window.
 
Burgh-Ger said:
I suspect Tav and Goldson will be here next season however, they shouldn’t be playing 50+ games for us.

If they leave along with some of the others expected, we are looking at a rebuild that a our budget won’t support.

The two of them combined have played a huge number of games over the last 3 or 4 years - thats really starting to show
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It's massive the number of games year in year out they play on average around 51 per season goldson has played for example since Gerrard came in 2018.

It was starting to show badly the season after seville the team that got the final was physically done and we have recruited badly since that hasn't allowed rotation and starting to move on with new replacements.

We can have a go at the players as they have to accept that for some really poor performance.

But we also need to look at the root cause which is the squad management and investment.

Take the beale summer we all knew straight away this was going end badly with what ever he was trying.

But when you look at what we spent and what we sold moneywise there's not much difference I'd be surprised if we we didn't break even at least
 
I’d like Tav to stay but can totally get if he now wants to go.

Goldson no issues over leaving
Won’t be surprised if both end up in Saudi
 
Gazza no8 said:
As much as we all like the idea of starting next season with a new squad and getting rid of the bottle merchants Tav, Goldson, Lundstrum etc... I think we're going to be left disappointed.

Tav is 32, Goldson is 31 and luckily Lundstrum is out of contract. Finding teams to take Tav and Goldson on the wages they're on will be hard going, plus the added factor of having the £ to replace them?

This is where he's on a hiding to nothing imo because if they can't find clubs or he wants to keep them then he won't get much sympathy from the fans next season when it inevitably starts to go wrong again.

We have 9 players due to leave when their contracts expire which will free up a good % of the wage bill with a few ? marks over another 6/7 not including Goldson or Tav.

The manager imo will see this as too much of a rebuild getting rid of them all so we might be left with a good few of the let downs from this season come pre season.
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If the sheer existence of Tav and Goldson in our squad is that much of a detriment to our chances at success, then we literally need to terminate their contracts and pay them off. Would be the best money spent in years.
 
Get a fund started to get rid of goldson never rated him from day 1
 
Sadly the OP is probably right and if it turns out that way forget about winning the title next season as well. It needs totally ripped up and a fresh start without any of the old faces to have a chance of growing in the right way. I would rather sacrifice being serious title contenders for an another season or two as grim a scenario as that is in order to build a squad PROPERLY than to continue with these ball breaking bottlers. We’ve done this to ourselves, there’s been too many poor decisions made in the club resulting in this garbage happening again and now it needs to be fixed once and for all. Enough is enough!
 
If we start next season with these 3 then expect more failure for the foreseeable and another manager binned.
 
Goldson has struggled most of the season, but you may recall that he missed the entirety of pre-season after picking up an injury at the tale end of the previous season.

I can't help but think that this is partly to blame for his loss of form, or that he might be carrying another injury.

Either way, there doesn't seem to be a credible replacement there. Balogun is a great option to have but he's 37 and has been prone to eratic challenges in the past.

Souttar - I'm just waiting on him getting injured.

Davies - hes an example of the disastrous transfer policy that has hindered us since 55.
 
We've already devoted a fair chunk of our budget to Diomande.

PC is going to have a hard job in the summer. I can only hope he isn't going by our scouts recommendations which have been awful.
 
cooprfc said:
We need to spend £4m on diomande and find £7m approx for Sima just to pretty much stand still though. With FFP, it's going to be a challenging window.
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Sima has scored some important goals for us but no way are we paying £7m for him, and neither should we.

Hes an average player imo.
 
I think Clement wants to go through the place, total new broom. His problem imo will be the old guard. Hopefully he has full backing of his employers.
 
trevor_steven said:
As a club we really struggle moving players on.

More often than not it's because we pay them far too much money for what they offer in return, meaning no club is going to match what we're paying. It's why we end up with so many out of contact players.

It's depressing as %^*& when you think about it.
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It was the main reason Rangers were unable to move Ben Davies on last summer
 
Maybe not move them on, but we could easily sell Davies to a champ club, may need to take a hit on what we paid but at this stage it’s better than him stealing a wage, balogun contract is up and souttar and goldson become 3rd and 4th choice behind 2 new signings
 
tazzabear said:
How many threads with the same message?
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Indeed. Very repetitive and too much scare mongering. Positive thoughts and positive comments are the order of the day.
In essence we should not have been in this position in the table. Onwards and upwards
 
My head tells me we will not win another title with Tavernier as captain. I have stood up for him many times on here. My heart says we can win a treble this season. So................
 
Gazza no8 said:
I can see the logic in wanting to keep him from the managers point of view but as fans we don't want to see it.

I said 9 but it's 10 players leaving out of contract and then question marks over Davies, King, Dowell, Matondo, Lawrence, Raskin and Dessers.

That is too much of a rebuild for 1 season, that's why we'll end up with most of them back.
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No, that's an example of why our boardroom are lazy.

You're right as well. That is what will happen. And we'll win f*** all again next season..
 
I reckon it depends on how well recruited the other positions are, to what extent you could absorb a Goldson on the bench financially.

I reckon with injuries and form your probably only getting 60/70% (maybe even less) value from your wages over the course of a year, in terms of availability and minutes played (not comment on value for money in a footballing sense).

Your always going to be carrying a lot of slack on your wages. If we sign well in other positions with depth and reliability, you could sign direct replacement for Goldson and not feel pressured to sell.
 
Tavernier will fetch money and Goldson either needs to find another club or we take the hit on his wages the next two years.

We have to rebuild now. One way or the other.
 
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